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PGT: Sunday's game redux, Habs comeback late and win in SO

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Old
11-21-2008, 01:49 AM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
If you know how to fix a lack of work ethic you should send a fax to Gainey because that is exactly what has been plaguing this team for the last 10 years. Lack of talent probably does require a roster change but it's alot easier to make a trade than it is to motivate 23 guys for a whole season.

And when it comes down to playoffs you win with desire not skill.
Yeah, who doesnt remember thoses so wonderfuly talented teams of the late 90's/early 00's...



Lidstrom, Rafalski, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Crosby, Malkin, Hossa all agree... talent, over-rated... hard-work the only reason they made it to the SCF last year...

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11-21-2008, 03:05 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Yeah, who doesnt remember thoses so wonderfuly talented teams of the late 90's/early 00's...



Lidstrom, Rafalski, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Crosby, Malkin, Hossa all agree... talent, over-rated... hard-work the only reason they made it to the SCF last year...
Big deal, look at the times Edmonton and Calgary made it to the Stanley cup finals on sheer force of will. And despite being less talented the Habs havn't played any better today than in the playoffs than in those late 90's early 00's. Habs havn't made it past the second round since 92-93 so don't act like this team is some juggernaut when they havn't proven anything outside of a cinderella season last year capped off with a pathetic playoff showing.

If talent alone = Stanley Cup the Rangers would have won it many times after 94. Yeah you should watch detroit play sometime if you think they don't work hard, lots of hard work and talent a good combination.

Lots of work ethic and little talent = Ryan Smyth
Lots of talent and little work ethic = Alexander Daigle

Two extremes but I think my point is made.

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11-21-2008, 03:44 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Big deal, look at the times Edmonton and Calgary made it to the Stanley cup finals on sheer force of will. And despite being less talented the Habs havn't played any better today than in the playoffs than in those late 90's early 00's. Habs havn't made it past the second round since 92-93 so don't act like this team is some juggernaut when they havn't proven anything outside of a cinderella season last year capped off with a pathetic playoff showing.

If talent alone = Stanley Cup the Rangers would have won it many times after 94. Yeah you should watch detroit play sometime if you think they don't work hard, lots of hard work and talent a good combination.

Lots of work ethic and little talent = Ryan Smyth
Lots of talent and little work ethic = Alexander Daigle

Two extremes but I think my point is made.
How about the two team that WON the Cup ? you know, like in the other post I quoted, work-ethic = win (along those lines)... well guess what! Oilers and Flames did NOT win


Well, YOU ARE the one who said they didnt do better over the last 15 years because they lacked work-ethic, not I...


and having the right system, players who have some chemistry, a good coaching staff... should watch some Wings games too, you'll see thay have thoses three as well...

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11-21-2008, 05:09 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
How about the two team that WON the Cup ? you know, like in the other post I quoted, work-ethic = win (along those lines)... well guess what! Oilers and Flames did NOT win


Well, YOU ARE the one who said they didnt do better over the last 15 years because they lacked work-ethic, not I...


and having the right system, players who have some chemistry, a good coaching staff... should watch some Wings games too, you'll see thay have thoses three as well...
You are really missing the entire point. The team really hasn't improved because even through the talent has increased the work ethic is still dragging the team down. The flames and oilers didn't win you say? I guess that proves you have seen a couple hockey games in your life than.

So yeah those ****** teams are still achieving the same results as this team is right now because the mentality hasn't changed one bit.

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11-21-2008, 05:41 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neopreneur View Post
This is what I'd like to see:

Tanguay-koivu-AK46
Lats-Pleks-Kovy
Higgins-Lang-SK74
4th line shuffle
I would like to see Pleks switched with Lang. Lats - Lang - Kovy all play at the same speed (not so fast) as do Higgins - Pleks - SK74 (fast). I think the first line would work very well as Koivu and Tanguay are great passers and puck control players but don't hold on the puck near as long as Pleks and Kovy; but they would need some time to gel together as not to much happens over night. Carbo should put them this way and leave it, let them develop chemistry. It would be good for the long run also as I would be surprised if Lang and Kovalev are signed back after this season.

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Old
11-21-2008, 08:19 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neopreneur View Post
This is what I'd like to see:

Tanguay-koivu-AK46
Lats-Pleks-Kovy
Higgins-Lang-SK74
4th line shuffle
Looks like a good line combo.

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Old
11-21-2008, 08:37 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
You are really missing the entire point. The team really hasn't improved because even through the talent has increased the work ethic is still dragging the team down. The flames and oilers didn't win you say? I guess that proves you have seen a couple hockey games in your life than.

So yeah those ****** teams are still achieving the same results as this team is right now because the mentality hasn't changed one bit.

you're contradicting yourself here... work ethic's been the same for the last 15 years ? but less talented Habs teams achieved the same result (wich isnt much I know...) ?

math may not be my strenght, but same work ethic with less talent cannot give same result... well, as long as you consider work ethic THE reason for the (non) success we're having...

I don't think that if I were to use your "calculation" I would put the same names there... would you ?

little work-ethic + no talent :
little work ethic + talent :


stop contradicting yourself, and maybe then I'll get the point you're trying to get across



I'm done on the subject anyway, I don't feel like having to explain AGAIN to someone there's more than work-ethic to a hockey game...

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Old
11-21-2008, 08:48 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Big deal, look at the times Edmonton and Calgary made it to the Stanley cup finals on sheer force of will. And despite being less talented the Habs havn't played any better today than in the playoffs than in those late 90's early 00's. Habs havn't made it past the second round since 92-93 so don't act like this team is some juggernaut when they havn't proven anything outside of a cinderella season last year capped off with a pathetic playoff showing.

If talent alone = Stanley Cup the Rangers would have won it many times after 94. Yeah you should watch detroit play sometime if you think they don't work hard, lots of hard work and talent a good combination.
Edmonton and Calgary played solid systems (especially defensively and on the forecheck) and got lights out goaltending on their Finals runs. To say they did it only by force of will is ridiculous.

To say that Montreal's playoff effort was pathetic last year is misinformed at best. The team lost, not because it didn't work hard. They out hit and outshot Philly in most of the games in the second round last year. They lost because they played relatively poor defensively, didn't get great goaltending, and didn't convert on, or were stoned on great chances.

You're right that work ethic is an important aspect of any cup run. So is talent. However, you completely miss the fact that tactics and strategy are something that is just as important. As is the execution and performance of individual players (which players go hot and cold). Last of all, there's a little bit of luck. Every team needs things to go the right way to win.

I think that you're simplifying what leads to a team's success in the playoffs, and that's what other posters are commenting on.


Last edited by LyleOdelein: 11-21-2008 at 09:00 AM.
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Old
11-21-2008, 09:26 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
And when it comes down to playoffs you win with desire not skill.
In the playoffs you need both. You won't win with just one.

And what plagued Montreal for the last 10 years has been lack of talent, not so much lack of work ethic. Please go back and look at some of these rosters...

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Old
11-21-2008, 09:31 AM
  #110
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- I don't care how talented Greg Nemiez ends up being for the Calgary Flames. The addition of Alex Tanguay has worked wonders for us so far, and I'm extremely happy to have him on the team. There is no way that I want to see Tanguay in a different sweater next season.

- It's amazing that every year, Saku Koivu has a line problem (har har). Only this time, I really can't call it a problem. Carbo needs to just stick with one guy and go for it. Higgins, Andrei or Gui. Just do it.

- Time to try Lang and Kovalev together on a line for the whole game.

- Andrei Markov is on his way to a deserved Norris Trophy.

- Carey Price gets bashed on the general HF boards because people hate the fact they are gonna hear about Carey for the next 18 years. **** those people. What a stop.

- Montreal should just go ahead and try it. Send down Sergei Kostitsyn and Ryan O'Byrne. Bring up Yannick Weber and Kyle Chipchura. See how Weber does on the point (Sergei's spot) in PP and how responsible he is defensively, and see how Chipchura solidifies a terrible fourth line (because our fourth line is terrible). The year is early, I want to see it. I'd love to see the effect it has on Sergei.

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11-21-2008, 09:44 AM
  #111
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Some quick thoughts on the game:

1. Steve Begin's best game on the year. Worthy of one of the stars, imo. Great fight, worked hard in the corners, a few good hits, and generated some offensive chances.

2. Good game for Markov. He is definitely is the elite as far as dman in the NHL goes.

3. Price's side to side play is as good as any goalie the habs have ever had. And his glove is improving. Great glove stop in the ifrst period, and a great glove save in the shootout.

4. Kovalev and Plekanec looked like they were in for a good game in the first period, but disappeared for the rest of the game.

5. Latendresse look O.K. Maybe he plays his best hockey with Koivu/Tangauy, or maybe they make him look good, I dunno.

6. The Kostitsyn brothers looked like they wanted to take this one off. Maybe they are resting up for Saturday.

7. The team has to get more scoring chances when they are controlling the puck in the offensive zone. They had plenty of time in the offensive zone, and didn't get shots off or whatever. Auld didn't make a hard save all night.

8. Boullion had a decent game. He is miles ahead of Brisebois and O'Byrne on the depth charts.

9. Koivu is the most consistent forward on the team so far this year. Imo, he hasn't had a bad game.

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11-21-2008, 10:07 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrychair View Post
I suggets no one go read the Price thread on the main board if you don't want your IQ to drop to -5. What a bunch of idiots.
I suggest that HF make a rule that you shouldn't be allowed to start a thread bragging about your own team. Anyone who goes on the main board to brag about their own player is just asking for a flaming.

In this instance, the save Price made was nice. IMO, it wasn't thread worthy, especially not on the main boards.
If Price makes an amazing save, it will be on highlight reels and people will see it. If fans from other teams feel it's something they would like to discuss, someone will post it.

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11-21-2008, 10:09 AM
  #113
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Markov in the post-game interview about his move on his SO goal

"I only have one move"



We hadn't noticed Andrei

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Old
11-21-2008, 10:17 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
- I don't care how talented Greg Nemiez ends up being for the Calgary Flames. The addition of Alex Tanguay has worked wonders for us so far, and I'm extremely happy to have him on the team. There is no way that I want to see Tanguay in a different sweater next season.

- It's amazing that every year, Saku Koivu has a line problem (har har). Only this time, I really can't call it a problem. Carbo needs to just stick with one guy and go for it. Higgins, Andrei or Gui. Just do it.

- Time to try Lang and Kovalev together on a line for the whole game.

- Andrei Markov is on his way to a deserved Norris Trophy.

- Carey Price gets bashed on the general HF boards because people hate the fact they are gonna hear about Carey for the next 18 years. **** those people. What a stop.

- Montreal should just go ahead and try it. Send down Sergei Kostitsyn and Ryan O'Byrne. Bring up Yannick Weber and Kyle Chipchura. See how Weber does on the point (Sergei's spot) in PP and how responsible he is defensively, and see how Chipchura solidifies a terrible fourth line (because our fourth line is terrible). The year is early, I want to see it. I'd love to see the effect it has on Sergei.
IMO, he gets bashed for the same reason any hyped player gets bashed on the general board.
I'd get sick and tired of fanboys bringing up every little thing he did also, if I was a fan of another team (I get sick and tired of it and I'm a big fan of his).

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11-21-2008, 10:24 AM
  #115
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All what matters about last night's game is that they worked hard.

If Montreal works hard they will win a lot of their games because they have the skill.

High scoring games will happen if you work hard.

And... Carey Price is doing amazing.

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11-21-2008, 10:58 AM
  #116
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Latendresse skated well last night, made good passes that were fumbled badly at the receiving end, and laid down some good hits. His game was a perfect compliment to his linemates. He's still a step behind them though, so driving to the next would've been useless -- but there were times when he carried the puck into the zone and his linemates has no clue what to do when that happened.

More than anything Latendresse needs to spend 4 months on a single line that doesn't change, He will find his role, and work hard the whole time. And he'll finish by being the most improved guy on the team. It won't quiet the doom-and-gloom anti-Gui crowd but it may re-spark the Gui-Unit at least.

Not that anyone here cares, but clearly Carbo & Gainey are seeing the very same things I am. That's how he's played his way onto a line with Koivu & Tanguay and the lazy play of 2 more skilled players (Higgins and S Kost) had them trying to find *their* roles last night.

At this point you gotta think the lines may end up:

Tanguay Koivu Lats
Higgins Plek Kovalev
Kost Lang Kost
Kosto Begin Laraque

With Kovalev and A Kost switching until they figure out which of those lines works better.

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11-21-2008, 11:00 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fufonzo View Post
IMO, he gets bashed for the same reason any hyped player gets bashed on the general board.
I'd get sick and tired of fanboys bringing up every little thing he did also, if I was a fan of another team (I get sick and tired of it and I'm a big fan of his).
Oh, I completely agree with you that the bragging threads need to stop. 100 per cent.

My thing is more that whenever you see someone positively mention Carey Price or Sidney Crosby, the bashing comes like a ****ing avalanche.

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11-21-2008, 11:31 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Darz View Post
Some quick thoughts on the game:

1. Steve Begin's best game on the year. Worthy of one of the stars, imo. Great fight, worked hard in the corners, a few good hits, and generated some offensive chances.

2. Good game for Markov. He is definitely is the elite as far as dman in the NHL goes.

3. Price's side to side play is as good as any goalie the habs have ever had. And his glove is improving. Great glove stop in the ifrst period, and a great glove save in the shootout.

4. Kovalev and Plekanec looked like they were in for a good game in the first period, but disappeared for the rest of the game.

5. Latendresse look O.K. Maybe he plays his best hockey with Koivu/Tangauy, or maybe they make him look good, I dunno.

6. The Kostitsyn brothers looked like they wanted to take this one off. Maybe they are resting up for Saturday.

7. The team has to get more scoring chances when they are controlling the puck in the offensive zone. They had plenty of time in the offensive zone, and didn't get shots off or whatever. Auld didn't make a hard save all night.

8. Boullion had a decent game. He is miles ahead of Brisebois and O'Byrne on the depth charts.

9. Koivu is the most consistent forward on the team so far this year. Imo, he hasn't had a bad game.

I think they make him look good.

The save off Tanguay comes to mind.

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11-21-2008, 11:43 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by bwoar View Post

the lazy play of 2 more skilled players (Higgins and S Kost) had them trying to find *their* roles last night.
Do you even live on the same reality plane like the rest of us or do you inhabit some other matrix.

I can see how you would say that Lats SEEMS to work harder than Sergei but Lats working harder than Higgins!

I guess love really is blind.

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11-21-2008, 12:42 PM
  #120
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Do you even live on the same reality plane like the rest of us or do you inhabit some other matrix.

I can see how you would say that Lats SEEMS to work harder than Sergei but Lats working harder than Higgins!

I guess love really is blind.
Actually I just don't watch games with the Anti-Lats helmet on that you do. I was ignoring your posts but since you're directly asking me: it's you who are completely blind if you can't see that Lats is putting in far more effort that the other two guys I mentioned. I will vouch for Sergei, his stint on line 4 woke him up last night a bit. I think anyone playing with Begin or Saku always picks up some of their endless drive.

Christopher Higgins is not working hard. I never bought into the "future captain" hype around him and you can see that like last year, he's waiting for his linemates to make the play, then he moves in to do something. One time in five is he going straight to the net, where that used to be 5/5. It's much worse when he plays with Kovalev because he doesn't read the game that well, and frankly who the hell knows what Kovy will do anyway? Answer: just go directly to the net and look for rebounds. That's what worked last year!

He's also getting beaten consistantly when battling for the puck 1 on 1 where that used to be a strong point to his game. He used to be a wicked forechecker, no more. It's not like last year when he had 1,000 chances and missed a bunch. Now the chances aren't there so much and guess what buddy - it's his own fault.

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11-21-2008, 01:22 PM
  #121
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What can I say about that game....Well, Koivu is the real deal. He is really the 'old Koivu' we all know. Tanguay isn't playing bad but he could do better (we can say the same about all the players). I don't really like AK46 with Lang, I'd like to see Lats back on third and AK46 with Tanguay and Koivu. Price wasn't bad at all but again, his defence isn't helping him much. A lot of mistakes and stuff, Georges is more consistent then Hamrlik (I like him). We need better effort because the talent is there, goals will come with effort.

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