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Old
11-21-2008, 10:03 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I guess Dubinsky, Dawes, Callahan and Voros aren't going to get any better than they are now.

You don't seem to have any faith in the Rangers young players but then blast the GM for getting better players via FA. Contradictory, no?
I have plenty of faith in Dubinsky, and I think Callahan is a nice player, but they aren't going to be enough. I love Callahan, but he isn't going to be a 40 goal scorer. Sorry, but it just isn't happening.

I'm blasting the GM for handcuffing the team financially. This team has weaknesses offensively that I don't see any of the young players on the team now or the prospects in the organization addressing, even if they all turn out as well as expected. How are those weaknesses going to be fixed when we'll barely be able to re-sign the good young players we have now?

Also, I don't think Dawes has much of a future, and I don't think very much of Voros' game. He's invisible most of the time.

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11-21-2008, 10:12 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I have plenty of faith in Dubinsky, and I think Callahan is a nice player, but they aren't going to be enough. I love Callahan, but he isn't going to be a 40 goal scorer. Sorry, but it just isn't happening.

I'm blasting the GM for handcuffing the team financially. This team has weaknesses offensively that I don't see any of the young players on the team now or the prospects in the organization addressing, even if they all turn out as well as expected. How are those weaknesses going to be fixed when we'll barely be able to re-sign the good young players we have now?

Also, I don't think Dawes has much of a future, and I don't think very much of Voros' game. He's invisible most of the time.
But you kill the GM for handcuffing the team financially, but then you say you want to win a Cup and say that there's not enough talent on the team. All the while you're concerned about wasting Hank's prime years.

Read what azrok22 wrote. You want top UFA talent, but its rarely available.

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11-21-2008, 10:21 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
But you kill the GM for handcuffing the team financially, but then you say you want to win a Cup and say that there's not enough talent on the team. All the while you're concerned about wasting Hank's prime years.

Read what azrok22 wrote. You want top UFA talent, but its rarely available.

So that means you should go after middle of the road talent and pay them huge money? That means you should pay two second line centers first line money and a second pair defenseman first pair money? It's one thing to over pay one guy, but to over pay this many players in a salary cap league. It's madness.

The team needs a scorer. If we aren't gettng one through free agency or trade, then we have to draft one. How are we going to do that when we have a team that's good enough to make the playoffs and not good enough to do anything there. We're not going to get high enough picks to draft an impact scorer, and we don't have the cap space to acquire one should he become available.

Just look at the teams that win. Great goaltending by itself is not enough. You have to score goals.

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11-21-2008, 10:29 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
So that means you should go after middle of the road talent and pay them huge money?
Once again.....

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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Gomez, Drury, and Redden didn't get "superstar" money, they got the market rate for top UFA talent.

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11-21-2008, 10:31 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
So that means you should go after middle of the road talent and pay them huge money? That means you should pay two second line centers first line money and a second pair defenseman first pair money? It's one thing to over pay one guy, but to over pay this many players in a salary cap league. It's madness.

The team needs a scorer. If we aren't gettng one through free agency or trade, then we have to draft one. How are we going to do that when we have a team that's good enough to make the playoffs and not good enough to do anything there. We're not going to get high enough picks to draft an impact scorer, and we don't have the cap space to acquire one should he become available.

Just look at the teams that win. Great goaltending by itself is not enough. You have to score goals.
Drury, Gomez, and Redden were some of the top free agents available over the last couple of seasons. If Sather didnt sign them, and did nothing or filled in their roster spots with lower level talent, we wouldnt even be dreaming of a cup run. This team at least has a chance.

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11-21-2008, 10:34 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
So that means you should go after middle of the road talent and pay them huge money? That means you should pay two second line centers first line money and a second pair defenseman first pair money? It's one thing to over pay one guy, but to over pay this many players in a salary cap league. It's madness.

The team needs a scorer. If we aren't gettng one through free agency or trade, then we have to draft one. How are we going to do that when we have a team that's good enough to make the playoffs and not good enough to do anything there. We're not going to get high enough picks to draft an impact scorer, and we don't have the cap space to acquire one should he become available.

Just look at the teams that win. Great goaltending by itself is not enough. You have to score goals.
You want to win a Cup? You have to make the playoffs. Once you're there, anything can happen. Especially when you have the goalie the Rangers have.

What I'm hearing from you is you want to draft on the top five or win a Cup. It doesn't work that way.

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Drury, Gomez, and Redden were some of the top free agents available over the last couple of seasons. If Sather didnt sign them, and did nothing or filled in their roster spots with lower level talent, we wouldnt even be dreaming of a cup run. This team at least has a chance.
That's just it.

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11-21-2008, 10:38 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Once again.....
Gomez and Drury are paid as top 10 centers. Sorry but that is superstar money.

Hossa took less money and he is a superstar. So if he makes less but is much much better than either of those two... than yes Gomez and Drury were paid superstar money as well.

Marc Savard is a better center than Gomez, and much better than Drury. He got paid less. Once again superstar money to Gomez and Drury.

Heck people are predicting that detroit will lose one maybe two all-star caliber players this year to FA but the contracts were all in the 7 mil range. They are also better than Gomez and Drury. Once again this would mean that Gomez and Drury were paid superstar money.

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11-21-2008, 10:42 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Drury, Gomez, and Redden were some of the top free agents available over the last couple of seasons. If Sather didnt sign them, and did nothing or filled in their roster spots with lower level talent, we wouldnt even be dreaming of a cup run. This team at least has a chance.
Bullspit. The best team we had was the 06-07 team. All we needed was ONE second line center. What we should have done is go after Savard in the prior FA period unfortunately we didn't. Instead we went after two second line centers, paid them as top 5 in their position (at that time) and got rid of our second best player. what happened? We had to completely change styles, no chemistry, two straight years of upheavel, cap hell now, and we still arent a better team. But at least we have captain clutch right? we are in a worse position now than two years ago. Especially b/c of the cap situation and 4 bad contracts on the books for a long long long time.

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11-21-2008, 10:45 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Drury, Gomez, and Redden were some of the top free agents available over the last couple of seasons. If Sather didnt sign them, and did nothing or filled in their roster spots with lower level talent, we wouldnt even be dreaming of a cup run. This team at least has a chance.
a chance at what? getting knocked out the first round and ending up w/ a crap pick again. Sorry, we are going to be mired in mediocrity for a while, sorta like the islanders for the last 10 years. Good enough to get to playoffs (maybe, i still think we miss this year) but crappy enought to get bounced first or second round. Unless we get uber lucky in the draft this will be a viscious cycle for the next 3 years until we lose two bad contracts, or if by some miracle the cap skyrockets.

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11-21-2008, 10:48 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
a chance at what? getting knocked out the first round and ending up w/ a crap pick again. Sorry, we are going to be mired in mediocrity for a while, sorta like the islanders for the last 10 years. Good enough to get to playoffs (maybe, i still think we miss this year) but crappy enought to get bounced first or second round. Unless we get uber lucky in the draft this will be a viscious cycle for the next 3 years until we lose two bad contracts, or if by some miracle the cap skyrockets.
If you're definition of a successful season is picking in the top five or winning a Cup, you are going to disappointed.

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11-21-2008, 10:52 AM
  #36
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I never said we had to win the cup this year in particular. What I said is I'd like to see this team win a Cup in the near future.

Let's say 5 years from now the Rangers were a playoff team every year but never won the Cup. What would you have preferred? A few years of not making the playoffs and stockpiling young talent or doing what we did, which I believe will result in playoffs but no Cups.

I'd rather go with the first choice. Just because free agents are available doesn't mean you have to sign them.

I don't think this team has what it takes to win, and I don't see how they'll be able to get those pieces without any cap space. Obivously, only time will tell, and obviously, I'd love to be wrong, but I don't think I will be. Unfortunately, I expect early playoff exit after early playoff exit. I'm sure a team like Columbus would be thrilled to get even that, but I don't think you should build a team just to make the playoffs.

And again, all I can point out is that when you look at the teams that win Stanley Cups, especially recently, they have more offensive firepower than the Rangers do. A lot more.

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11-21-2008, 10:53 AM
  #37
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Gomez and Drury are paid as top 10 centers. Sorry but that is superstar money.

Hossa took less money and he is a superstar.
I'm trying to rationalize how Hossa's 66 points earn him a "superstar" rating, but Gomez's 70 points don't.

Hey man, if you think a paycheck is what qualifies an NHL as a superstar or not, then I consider you're POV skewed. Some of the league's most unbelievable talents are paid a pittance in the context of their production. Malkin's $3.8M cap hit comes to mind. A history of good performance, a pedigree of winning, and, of course UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT STATUS are how you earn a big paycheck in the NHL.

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11-21-2008, 10:55 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I never said we had to win the cup this year in particular. What I said is I'd like to see this team win a Cup in the near future.

Let's say 5 years from now the Rangers were a playoff team every year but never won the Cup. What would you have preferred? A few years of not making the playoffs and stockpiling young talent or doing what we did, which I believe will result in playoffs but no Cups.

I'd rather go with the first choice. Just because free agents are available doesn't mean you have to sign them.

I don't think this team has what it takes to win, and I don't see how they'll be able to get those pieces without any cap space. Obivously, only time will tell, and obviously, I'd love to be wrong, but I don't think I will be. Unfortunately, I expect early playoff exit after early playoff exit. I'm sure a team like Columbus would be thrilled to get even that, but I don't think you should build a team just to make the playoffs.

And again, all I can point out is that when you look at the teams that win Stanley Cups, especially recently, they have more offensive firepower than the Rangers do. A lot more.
Ask what Kings, Blue Jackets, Thrasher and Coyote fans would want.

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11-21-2008, 10:56 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
If you're definition of a successful season is picking in the top five or winning a Cup, you are going to disappointed.
Winning a cup is a successful season. being better than the season before is a small success. stayin stuck in neutral is a failure. Getting a top 5 draft pick while meaning you were horrible that season, at least you should get an impact franchise player, so it is in my eyes better to lose horribly for a year or two, than barely make the playoffs for 4 straight years to be bounced early. At least you should get the building blocks of extreme high end players.

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11-21-2008, 10:58 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
Winning a cup is a successful season. being better than the season before is a small success. stayin stuck in neutral is a failure. Getting a top 5 draft pick while meaning you were horrible that season, at least you should get an impact franchise player, so it is in my eyes better to lose horribly for a year or two, than barely make the playoffs for 4 straight years to be bounced early. At least you should get the building blocks of extreme high end players.
And you're saying that last year they were stuck in neutral?

This team has barely made the playoffs the last few seasons? And if they did, they managed to win advance. Anything can happen.

And the comparison to the Islanders is terribly flawed.

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11-21-2008, 10:59 AM
  #41
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a chance at what? getting knocked out the first round and ending up w/ a crap pick again. Sorry, we are going to be mired in mediocrity for a while, sorta like the islanders for the last 10 years. Good enough to get to playoffs (maybe, i still think we miss this year) but crappy enought to get bounced first or second round. Unless we get uber lucky in the draft this will be a viscious cycle for the next 3 years until we lose two bad contracts, or if by some miracle the cap skyrockets.
Where the **** do you get off comparing a team that has made the playoffs for the past 3 seasons, and is on their way to a 4th straight playoff berth to the Islanders? Get a hold of yourself man, cause thats just ridiculous.

This team is set up to continue racking up playoff berths for the foreseeable future. Once we're there, anything can happen especially with Lundqvist in nets. Ill take that over completely dismantling the team in HOPES that the new product can make a cup run.

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11-21-2008, 11:07 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I'm trying to rationalize how Hossa's 66 points earn him a "superstar" rating, but Gomez's 70 points don't.

Hey man, if you think a paycheck is what qualifies an NHL as a superstar or not, then I consider you're POV skewed. Some of the league's most unbelievable talents are paid a pittance in the context of their production. Malkin's $3.8M cap hit comes to mind. A history of good performance, a pedigree of winning, and, of course UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT STATUS are how you earn a big paycheck in the NHL.
one down season for him and he loses superstar status. He was playing on a crap team. Look at him in the playoffs. Look at his stats w/ Ottawa, or even Atlanta in previous years. Thats what made him a superstar.

UFA does not equal big paycheck. Look at Lecalvalier, Richards, St. Louis, Ovechkin, Crosby, heatly, Sakic, Lidstrom etc.... they never were UFAs. they all have big contracts. They earned them though w/ extremely good play.


Hossa: 5 seasons of at least 75 pts.
4 of at least 80 pts
1 100 pt season.
over ppg this year
only one season (besides rookie year) of under 60 pts.


Gomez: 1 season under 60 pts:
3 season of 70 pts
1 season over 80

now if you consider Gomez to be a star or an all star. Compare the two and its not hard to figure out that Hossa is a superstar. Hossa has been one of the most consistent and best players in the league the last 5 years.

Guys like malone, Drury, Gomez, etc earned them b/c of UFA. While their play was good, it was not THAT good. to earn those paychecks.

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11-21-2008, 11:09 AM
  #43
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Where the **** do you get off comparing a team that has made the playoffs for the past 3 seasons, and is on their way to a 4th straight playoff berth to the Islanders? Get a hold of yourself man, cause thats just ridiculous.

This team is set up to continue racking up playoff berths for the foreseeable future. Once we're there, anything can happen especially with Lundqvist in nets. Ill take that over completely dismantling the team in HOPES that the new product can make a cup run.
why is the islanders a bad comparison. the pre lockout islanders were always in the playoffs but did nothing. Want a better comparison. Ok how about the St. Louis blues. In the playoffs for 26 straight years I believe and won a grand total of 0 cups.

We are headed in that direction unless we unload some of these ridiculous contracts.

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11-21-2008, 11:10 AM
  #44
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And you're saying that last year they were stuck in neutral?

This team has barely made the playoffs the last few seasons? And if they did, they managed to win advance. Anything can happen.

And the comparison to the Islanders is terribly flawed.
yes we are stuck in neutral, and will continue to be until we unload some big contracts.

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11-21-2008, 11:12 AM
  #45
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Ask what Kings, Blue Jackets, Thrasher and Coyote fans would want.
ask the Kings and Coyotes and Blackhawks in about 2 years when they become absolutely dominant. Especially the Kings. They are getting primed to become a force for the next 10 years.

remember we were bad for 7 years. but we still don't have that upper echelon talent to show for it.

the kings, blue jackets and coyotes, and blackhawks do.

The thrashers, well they were completely mismananged.

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11-21-2008, 11:12 AM
  #46
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why is the islanders a bad comparison. the pre lockout islanders were always in the playoffs but did nothing. Want a better comparison. Ok how about the St. Louis blues. In the playoffs for 26 straight years I believe and won a grand total of 0 cups.

We are headed in that direction unless we unload some of these ridiculous contracts.
Why dont you take the playoff berths and then see what happens? You know, actually enjoy the ride.

I used to complain a lot about this team too...when they sucked. Now that they're actually pretty good, I really enjoy watching them win the majority of their games. Seems to me that this team causes you more grief than enjoyment, and thats kind of sad.

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11-21-2008, 11:15 AM
  #47
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ask the Kings and Coyotes and Blackhawks in about 2 years when they become absolutely dominant. Especially the Kings. They are getting primed to become a force for the next 10 years.

remember we were bad for 7 years. but we still don't have that upper echelon talent to show for it.

the kings, blue jackets and coyotes, and blackhawks do.

The thrashers, well they were completely mismananged.
And if they don't? Then what? There's no givens. Other than you need to make the playoffs in order to win the Cup.

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11-21-2008, 11:17 AM
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And if they don't? Then what? There's no givens. Other than you need to make the playoffs in order to win the Cup.
there is no givens. and it isn't a give that this team will even make the playoffs, which I still think they won't barring a big trade, or Renney changing this teams style of play.

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11-21-2008, 11:18 AM
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yes we are stuck in neutral, and will continue to be until we unload some big contracts.
So I guess making the playoffs, beating the Devils and adding 5 young guys into the lineup to begin their development (including two of your top defenseman and one of your top 3 centers) is being in neutral .

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11-21-2008, 11:22 AM
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why is the islanders a bad comparison. the pre lockout islanders were always in the playoffs but did nothing. Want a better comparison. Ok how about the St. Louis blues. In the playoffs for 26 straight years I believe and won a grand total of 0 cups.

We are headed in that direction unless we unload some of these ridiculous contracts.
Why are they a bad comparison? Because they don't have the farm system the Rangers do. Because they don't have the NHL team the Rangers do. Because their franchise player can't stay healthy. Because two of their top 3 players are older than anyone on the Rangers.

All the while, they have failed to win a playoff round.

They only thing they are is closer to a lottery pick — which I guess it what you're pointing to.

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