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2008-09 - Kings Juniors (CHL) and College Prospects Update Thread

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Old
11-19-2008, 11:24 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post


As far as Loktionov... if deano is right about his team-first focus and his point production continues on this torrid pace, it certainly makes him a promising prospect to make the jump over to the AHL as soon as he's eligible.

- T
He was eligible this year but the brain trust thought he would be better served in juniors rather than in the AHL. His situation is the same as Voynov's. If Loktionov keeps up his pace he should be seeing time in the A next season. Assuming he doesn't make the Kings of course!

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11-19-2008, 10:39 PM
  #77
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Cameron with a five point game for Belleville tonight (2g 3 a).

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11-21-2008, 02:53 PM
  #78
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* Bryan Cameron *

I see that he is having a big year in the OHL... He is up there in scoring with future studs Taylor Hall, Ryan Ellis, Taveras, Matt Duchene, Kadri... He is 1.5 to 2.5 years older than those players...

Is he for real or just picking up points as an older kid against younger kids?? Anybody see him play? Can he be a second line forward one day for the Kings?

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11-21-2008, 04:45 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by hangons View Post
I see that he is having a big year in the OHL... He is up there in scoring with future studs Taylor Hall, Ryan Ellis, Taveras, Matt Duchene, Kadri... He is 1.5 to 2.5 years older than those players...

Is he for real or just picking up points as an older kid against younger kids?? Anybody see him play? Can he be a second line forward one day for the Kings?
Being that old at that age level is a very big difference.

Azevedo anyone?

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11-21-2008, 08:43 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Deelo View Post
Being that old at that age level is a very big difference.

Azevedo anyone?
But there is a difference Cameron has been a steady scorer his whole time in the OHL increasing his numbers every year. Azevado jumped from a 56 point season to 124 points. Cameron has gone from 29 to 58 to 78. Azevado was passed over because of his size as well as his strange jump in production, and he also happens to have 4 points in 2 pro games so he just might be decent after all. Not saying Cameron is going to be a beast in the NHL but he might be a decent 3rd liner that can score a goal here and there (see Moulson, Matt).

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11-21-2008, 11:41 PM
  #81
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Jones stops 24/25 shots, improves to 15-2-1

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11-22-2008, 10:05 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
Jones stops 24/25 shots, improves to 15-2-1
Jones>>>Bernier



Or maybe he will be????

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Old
11-22-2008, 12:46 PM
  #83
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Quote:
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Jones>>>Bernier



Or maybe he will be????
At this point I don't see why not

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Old
11-22-2008, 03:54 PM
  #84
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I know you guys have a plethora of blue chip prospects in your system but to win it takes more than that.

That is why I am here to give you a quick update on the Montreal Juniors captain Matt Fillier. I have been watching the Juniors from the start of the season and I have really enjoyed Fillier's grit so far. Just an update on his stats:

#27 Matt Fillier 20GP 7-5-12 35 PIMS +4

The first game back from the Kings training camp he had a 4 pts game and I really thought that someone with his speed and grit and at his age he would dominate offensively kind of like what Nick Layton is doing at the moment for the team.

But Fillier is really lacking in offensive awareness and the only way he can create offensive chances is by hard work and crease crashing. He wasnt named captain out of the blue, Fillier gives 100% every shift and is a real leader off the ice from what I am hearing. He defends his teammates on the ice and is a real team player.

Now what he can do on the ice are what most 3rd and 4th liners do every day in the NHL. He can hit, he plays well along the boards, isnt afraid to go in the corners, plays on the PK, plays well in his own zone, etc.

He is not the most beautiful skater I have seen but he gets things done and gets from point A to point B effectively. In the new NHL even the 13th forward needs to have speed or else you'll get blown past you and you'll take hooking penalties and 4th liners cannot do that.

Fillier will one day reach the NHL I have no doubt about it, he has a tremendous work ethic and will probably have to spend a couple of years in the AHL first, and he will never be a top scorer at the NHL level, but he is the kind of guy that you won the cup with, a lot of character, dedication, that inspires a team with a body check or an energy shift.

All in all not a flashy prospect you've got there but a future 4th liner character energy type of guy that is playing solid hockey right now as the captain of the Montreal Juniors.

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11-22-2008, 04:01 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
Jones>>>Bernier



Or maybe he will be????
Bernier just recorded a 27 save shutout in a 1-0 win, which included going 5-for-5 in the shootout.

4-1-2 2.59 .903 in 7 games played.

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11-22-2008, 04:03 PM
  #86
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Sorry JB, I'll shut up now

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11-22-2008, 04:11 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrice View Post
Bernier just recorded a 27 save shutout in a 1-0 win, which included going 5-for-5 in the shootout.

4-1-2 2.59 .903 in 7 games played.
Very impressive....still does not change the fact that Jones could become better than Bernier......which would be an awesome problem for Lombardi.

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11-22-2008, 04:14 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
Very impressive....still does not change the fact that Jones could become better than Bernier......which would be an awesome problem for Lombardi.
And Dan Taylor could become greater than all of them combined...which is just as likely to happen as your scenario.

The talent pecking order remains:

Bernier
Quick
Zatkoff
....everybody else.

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11-22-2008, 04:30 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Thrice View Post
And Dan Taylor could become greater than all of them combined...which is just as likely to happen as your scenario.

The talent pecking order remains:

Bernier
Quick
Zatkoff
....everybody else.
Taylor could be better than them all....I think maybe you are still living in a world where draft position somehow equates to NHL success......you do realize that the best goalie (arguably) in the NHL right now was a 7th round draft pick in 2000.....right?

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11-22-2008, 06:41 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #57 View Post
I know you guys have a plethora of blue chip prospects in your system but to win it takes more than that.

That is why I am here to give you a quick update on the Montreal Juniors captain Matt Fillier. I have been watching the Juniors from the start of the season and I have really enjoyed Fillier's grit so far. Just an update on his stats:

#27 Matt Fillier 20GP 7-5-12 35 PIMS +4

The first game back from the Kings training camp he had a 4 pts game and I really thought that someone with his speed and grit and at his age he would dominate offensively kind of like what Nick Layton is doing at the moment for the team.

But Fillier is really lacking in offensive awareness and the only way he can create offensive chances is by hard work and crease crashing. He wasnt named captain out of the blue, Fillier gives 100% every shift and is a real leader off the ice from what I am hearing. He defends his teammates on the ice and is a real team player.

Now what he can do on the ice are what most 3rd and 4th liners do every day in the NHL. He can hit, he plays well along the boards, isnt afraid to go in the corners, plays on the PK, plays well in his own zone, etc.

He is not the most beautiful skater I have seen but he gets things done and gets from point A to point B effectively. In the new NHL even the 13th forward needs to have speed or else you'll get blown past you and you'll take hooking penalties and 4th liners cannot do that.

Fillier will one day reach the NHL I have no doubt about it, he has a tremendous work ethic and will probably have to spend a couple of years in the AHL first, and he will never be a top scorer at the NHL level, but he is the kind of guy that you won the cup with, a lot of character, dedication, that inspires a team with a body check or an energy shift.

All in all not a flashy prospect you've got there but a future 4th liner character energy type of guy that is playing solid hockey right now as the captain of the Montreal Juniors.
Good report, thank you. I've been harping for a long time that the Kings need to start developing our own checkers and grinders for our bottom-6, so I'm happy to hear we may have one down the road in Fillier.

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11-22-2008, 06:49 PM
  #91
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Is our prospect pool that amazing?

I mean our youth is easily top-5 in the NHL, but our prospect pool, with Simmonds, Doughty, Moller and Boyle all set to graduate, looks somewhat thin

Another problem appears to be a lack of "blue-chip" forward prospects

Our prospect list, if we are talking about those outside of the NHL, roughly looks like this in the top ten:

Bernier
Hickey
Teubert
Purcell
Lewis
Voinov
Zatkoff
Quick
Martinez
Holloway

That looks really weak. Looking at our "future" lineups, we have basically this:

Sully-Kopi-Brown
Frolov - ??? - Purcell
??? - Stoll - Moller
??? Boyle - Simmonds

Really, only Kopi and Frolov have what can be regarded as all-star talent, which makes it obvious to me that the Kings will have to import at least 1 great player.

But will this screw up our delicate salary situation? Perhaps delicate is the wrong word, rather it could throw a wrench into the long term plans, much like Vanek did with the Sabres

So what appears to the case is that Deano is building up a defense first club, considering that we will probably have the best blue-line in the NHL within 5 years

Doughty-Johnson
Hickey-Teubert
Voinov-Quincey/Greene

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11-22-2008, 07:29 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAX attack View Post
Another problem appears to be a lack of "blue-chip" forward prospects
You're right that we don't really have any "blue-chip" forwards at this point, but I think you also need to take into account the quality of young talent already on the roster. Kopitar and Moller are both of an age where they could be considered top prospects, but they're both already in the NHL. We also consider Purcell a prospect, but he's the same age as O'Sullivan and Brown, both of whom are already in the NHL. Really, I'm not overly concerned with the future lineup.

Sully-Kopi-Brown
Frolov - ??? - Purcell
??? - Stoll - Moller
??? Boyle - Simmonds

If we've got Moller on our third line, we're doing fine for depth at the wings. Really the only glaring hole I see is the second line center, which Stoll could plausibly keep playing, but I would expect we'll fill that hole in a major way. It doesn't have to be all through the draft; that real econd line center could (and I expect will) be a trade or free agent. If this team is to compete for the Cup in 3 years or so, we'd probably be better served anchoring the second line with a good 30ish veteran than a 21 year old kid anyhow.

I would say our future lineup looks more like this:

O'Sullivan - Kopitar - Brown
Moller - [Big name addition] - Purcell/Frolov
[Gritty veteran addition] - Stoll - Simmonds
Westgarth - Boyle - Clune

I don't see both Frolov and Purcell being here in 3 years. If Purcell pans out and Frolov wants a lot of money, I think he's gone. Hopefully in the trade that brings in the big center, rather than just letting him walk as a UFA, but I don't know his intentions. Maybe he's practically already gone; maybe he'll stay at all costs. In any case, I'm pretty sure at least one of Purcell and Frolov won't be on this team in 3 years.

We also need to keep in mind that we likely won't yield a 100% homegrown team. Especially in a playoff run, when we're going to need some veterans. I'm sure we'll see at least one free agent signing in the mould of a Kris Draper, Ethan Moreau, a younger Scott Thornton - a gritty veteran "warrior" sort of checker.

We also have some second tier prospects who may pan out better than expected. I think Holloway, Cliche, and Lewis are all likely NHLers - probably not as scorers [although don't write off Lewis just yet], but speedy defensive players [a Todd Marchant type] are useful and they'll catch on somewhere, if not here. There's also a chance that Loktionov or Azevedo might surprise as top-6 guys.

TL;DR: while I agree with you that we lack blue-chip talent and will need a good second-line center one day, I think our prospect pool is in excellent shape when you factor in our kids already in the NHL.

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11-22-2008, 07:35 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans View Post
TL;DR: while I agree with you that we lack blue-chip talent and will need a good second-line center one day, I think our prospect pool is in excellent shape when you factor in our kids already in the NHL.

All your points are very valid, but I must disagree with you on a few points

1) Frolov - I think it is very important that we keep Frolov. He offers a very special talent that is extremely valuable in the playoffs. Also, he is our second most talented forward in the system, and as such I dont think we can ever get proper value if he is the best player in a trade or released to free agency, neither of which we should do. I wouldnt have a problem if he is a major piece to get an all-star forward

2) NHL players vs. prospects

In the cap era, great teams live just as much on prospects coming up and providing talent and buzz on cheap entry level contracts as they do on their established stars. We cant be content to have a great core, because we have to think of all things that happen, and it is important insurance to have young players. Chris Drury and Alex Tanguay went on to bright futures from the Avalanche in incredibly uneven trades, but they did their job for the Avs, especially in the playoffs.

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11-22-2008, 08:21 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAX attack View Post
All your points are very valid, but I must disagree with you on a few points

1) Frolov - I think it is very important that we keep Frolov. He offers a very special talent that is extremely valuable in the playoffs. Also, he is our second most talented forward in the system, and as such I dont think we can ever get proper value if he is the best player in a trade or released to free agency, neither of which we should do. I wouldnt have a problem if he is a major piece to get an all-star forward

2) NHL players vs. prospects

In the cap era, great teams live just as much on prospects coming up and providing talent and buzz on cheap entry level contracts as they do on their established stars. We cant be content to have a great core, because we have to think of all things that happen, and it is important insurance to have young players. Chris Drury and Alex Tanguay went on to bright futures from the Avalanche in incredibly uneven trades, but they did their job for the Avs, especially in the playoffs.
I don't mean to suggest that we ought to trade Frolov; I value him as much as you do. It's by reasoning of your second point that I think it's bound to happen. In the salary cap world, especially in a dwindling salary cap world, you have to have a balance between high-paid stars and cheap young players. Frolov would be well within his right to look for something around 5-6 million a year on his next contract, and he'll get it...somewhere. It comes down to which way 5-6 million dollars will better serve us: Frolov, or (hypothetically) Moller and Purcell on their second contracts.

That's why I think Purcell may be groomed to replace. Frolov, by virtue of his NHL tenure and his defensive game, is worth even more than his statistics. If Purcell can approach Frolov's production but without the years of experience or defensive game, Lombardi would presumably be able to sign him for less. Now of course there's a tradeoff; those other aspects of Frolov are certainly valuable, but I think the theory would be that after 3 years of Murray, all our forwards will play defense and all will have NHL experience, so Frolov's game will be less of a rare breed and we'll be able to cover it between Purcell's offense and Kopitar/Brown/O'Sullivan's newfound defense. Not that I'd particularly like that to see that happen, but I get the feeling that's what we're headed towards out of cap necessity.

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11-22-2008, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans View Post
I don't mean to suggest that we ought to trade Frolov; I value him as much as you do. It's by reasoning of your second point that I think it's bound to happen. In the salary cap world, especially in a dwindling salary cap world, you have to have a balance between high-paid stars and cheap young players. Frolov would be well within his right to look for something around 5-6 million a year on his next contract, and he'll get it...somewhere. It comes down to which way 5-6 million dollars will better serve us: Frolov, or (hypothetically) Moller and Purcell on their second contracts.

That's why I think Purcell may be groomed to replace. Frolov, by virtue of his NHL tenure and his defensive game, is worth even more than his statistics. If Purcell can approach Frolov's production but without the years of experience or defensive game, Lombardi would presumably be able to sign him for less. Now of course there's a tradeoff; those other aspects of Frolov are certainly valuable, but I think the theory would be that after 3 years of Murray, all our forwards will play defense and all will have NHL experience, so Frolov's game will be less of a rare breed and we'll be able to cover it between Purcell's offense and Kopitar/Brown/O'Sullivan's newfound defense. Not that I'd particularly like that to see that happen, but I get the feeling that's what we're headed towards out of cap necessity.
I would sign him up to 5 million

But can we really assume that he will go for 5-6 mil?

I dont really know

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11-22-2008, 08:36 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by LAX attack View Post
I would sign him up to 5 million

But can we really assume that he will go for 5-6 mil?

I dont really know
Based on previous year's stats I believe that Frolov would seek (and probably deserve) $5-6 million/year.

But with his current production he is on pace for a 51 point season (23 goals). Alexander might have a hard time convincing Dean he is worth that much unless he improves his offensive output.

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11-23-2008, 09:45 AM
  #97
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Hickey with 3 assists and a +2

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11-23-2008, 10:02 AM
  #98
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Jones>>>Bernier



Or maybe he will be????
Not likely but you never know. Although people like to project, Bernier number in the AHL is not comparable to Jones in the WHL. Example #1: Leland Irvine, 1st round draft pick in 2006.

Irvine had 3 straight season of sub-2.00GGA, .925+ save%. In his last year in the WHL he had "bad year" 2.45GGA, .919 save%. But overall, his WHL number is probably much more impressive than Jones.

So far in the AHL, Irvine has worst number than Bernier. (2.85GAA, .863sv%). So, its just comparing apple and oranges. And as far as talent wise, I would think a 1st round pick would have higher potential than undrafted UFA. But I guess its the "realized" potential that's the most important, and that we will have to wait and see.

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11-23-2008, 01:56 PM
  #99
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Hickey with 3 assists and a +2
That makes 11 points(4g 7a) and +8 in his last 12 games.

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11-23-2008, 02:29 PM
  #100
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That makes 11 points(4g 7a) and +8 in his last 12 games.
But remember, he's a bust...

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