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Old
11-21-2008, 04:56 PM
  #51
Vaasa
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Originally Posted by HossaHavlatGiguere View Post
That is what I think too. But I think this would be a fair swap for the Pens and Sharks. Maybe Whitney instead? Because I think in the coming months Letang will be better than Whitney making him expendable. Whitney is a good defensemen and has tons of potential, but I think the Pens could ease Goligoski into the line up taking Letang's place and Letang taking Whitney's. With a Cheechoo-Whitney trade and salary should be enough to to fit under the Pens and Sharks cap. This would also save the Pens cap room to resign Jordan Staal too. Of course, though, this trade would be made at the deadline.

After Trade Deadline
Gonchar-Scuderi
Orpik-Letang
Goligoski-Gill
Boucher and Eaton in and out.???
Even at the deadline the Sharks couldn't afford this. The last I heard the Sharks had about $500k in free cap space, and there is a $1 million difference between Cheechoo and Whitney's salary.

Maybe in the offseason, when Rob Blake's $5 million comes off the books and he probably leaves the team, this might make sense.. but even then I'm not sure how much the Sharks would want Whitney with similar players such as Boyle and Ehrhoff already on the team. I'm not saying it's possible, I'm just saying I'm not too sure about it given the Sharks D.

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11-21-2008, 05:15 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
after the last draft I have solid feeling that Shero is looking to acquire draft picks, not spend them.
Shero makes that trade and this gives Sid a decent winger.

Really you are losing a 2nd or 3rd rounder for Cheechoo

Fedo is a salary dump to to make room for Cheech.

This is a win - win

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11-21-2008, 05:23 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by sgupca View Post
Shero makes that trade and this gives Sid a decent winger.

Really you are losing a 2nd or 3rd rounder for Cheechoo

Fedo is a salary dump to to make room for Cheech.

This is a win - win
Is this a decent winger though? Why hasnt he shown what he could do since that one good season? Why is he the odd man out currently in San Jose if he was still a good winger. I think the signs are pointing more along the lines of him being a one season fluke. If it wasnt I would imagine that he would be playing on the top line and being deemed untouchable.

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11-21-2008, 05:28 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
Is this a decent winger though? Why hasnt he shown what he could do since that one good season? Why is he the odd man out currently in San Jose if he was still a good winger. I think the signs are pointing more along the lines of him being a one season fluke. If it wasnt I would imagine that he would be playing on the top line and being deemed untouchable.
So a 28 goal third line season and a 37 goal follow up make him a fluke? I don't get why people still say this. Somehow Jonathan Cheechoo is the only player to have a bad season scoring 37 goals. Last year he was injured for half the season and still scored 23. I understand he looks like a horrible skater but that's no reason to ignore his two other very good seasons just because they don't measure up to a career year.

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11-21-2008, 05:32 PM
  #55
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True that one year could have been a fluke but 28, 56, 37, 23 are his last four years. San Jose uses him on the 3rd line I believe which is kind of hard to score goals on the 3rd. San Jose has so much cheap talent like Clowe,Set,Pavelski they can put Cheechoo on the third.

Im still Sticking too 2nd,Fed,(maybe throw a decent prospect in too) for Cheechoo


San Jose loses All the cap next year and could have room for a Hossa if blake moves on. Kind of scary and they get a 2nd.

Cheechoo is right handed and could be placed on Malkins line. Cheechoo-Malkin-Sykora is a mix of everything. Cheech is tough, screens the goalie, good hands, and right handed. Kind of fills the penguins needs.

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11-21-2008, 05:37 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
Is this a decent winger though? Why hasnt he shown what he could do since that one good season? Why is he the odd man out currently in San Jose if he was still a good winger. I think the signs are pointing more along the lines of him being a one season fluke. If it wasnt I would imagine that he would be playing on the top line and being deemed untouchable.
You can't just look at the numbers and assume that Cheechoo has declined in production because he had a "fluke" season.

Cheechoo put up more than 20 goals playing on the 3rd line with Sharks before Thornton even got here. When JT got here he and Cheechoo developed amazing chemistry for that season AND Cheechoo was healthy for the just about the entire regular season.

Last season he came into camp having had double sports-hernia surgery over the summer that prevented him to do practically any exercise in the offseason. He was out of shape and still healing through most of the regular season. In the last 20 or so games of last season he finally got fully healthy and went on a scoring tear, and the Sharks went on a major winning streak.

This season the Sharks wanted to develope more than 1 major scoring line, so Michalek and Cheechoo were moved off of JT's line to give Pavelski some more experienced line-mates, while Marleau and Setoguchi were moved up to JT's line. Cheechoo was doing fine on the 2nd line until he got injured (relatively minor, but enough that the team would rather sit him) and he was out for several games. Meanwhile, Ryane Clowe got hot playing in his spot on the 2nd line, so when Cheechoo came back (just one game so far) Cheechoo took his place on the 3rd line.

One thing about Cheechoo's style of play is that he almost guaranteed to get injured. He digs in along the boards, forechecks hard, and most importantly he spends a LOT of time in near the front of other teams goal. This means he gets pounded a LOT, and he's not a huge dude, so he takes punishment. But he's got an absolutely monster one-timer and his shot can be devastatingly accurate.

I actually want to keep him around, but the simple fact is that the Sharks are going to need to sign some important players in the next year or so, and they have a fair amount of depth at RW (Setoguchi, Clowe [RW and LW], Grier, Morris, etc) and Cheechoo is among the current pieces who could be moved for both a good return and who could clear a decent amount of cap space ($3 million). It's quite possible that Cheechoo could end up stuck on the Sharks 3rd line, but if so he would be like Jiri Hudler, a 3rd line guy with enough skill to play on any line, and who would probably be in the top 6 (if not the top line) of nearly any other team that didn't have the massive depth the Sharks do.

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Old
11-21-2008, 05:42 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pensown View Post
True that one year could have been a fluke but 28, 56, 37, 23 are his last four years. San Jose uses him on the 3rd line I believe which is kind of hard to score goals on the 3rd. San Jose has so much cheap talent like Clowe,Set,Pavelski they can put Cheechoo on the third.

Im still Sticking too 2nd,Fed,(maybe throw a decent prospect in too) for Cheechoo


San Jose loses All the cap next year and could have room for a Hossa if blake moves on. Kind of scary and they get a 2nd.

Cheechoo is right handed and could be placed on Malkins line. Cheechoo-Malkin-Sykora is a mix of everything. Cheech is tough, screens the goalie, good hands, and right handed. Kind of fills the penguins needs.
First off, I apolgize to sharks fans who have read this constantly, but San Jose can make no big moves this summer.

Thornton-7.2
Boyle-6.6
Marleau-6.3
Nabakov-5.4
Michalek-4.3
Ehrhoff-3.1
Vlasic-3.1
Cheechoo-3
Murray-2.5
Lukowich-1.7
Pavelski-1.6
Setoguchi-1.3
Shelly-.77

New contracts (approximates)
Blake- 2-4
Clowe-3
Grier-1.5
Mitchell-1.5
Boucher (Greiss)-.7

Goc
Pilhal
Staubitz
Morris
Kaspar

Fillers
Zalewski-.66
McGinn-1
McLaren-.5
Joslin-.516

There will be no Hossa for the Sharks. If they can keep Clowe, Cheechoo, and Blake I will be happy.

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Old
11-22-2008, 08:32 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
So a 28 goal third line season and a 37 goal follow up make him a fluke? I don't get why people still say this. Somehow Jonathan Cheechoo is the only player to have a bad season scoring 37 goals. Last year he was injured for half the season and still scored 23. I understand he looks like a horrible skater but that's no reason to ignore his two other very good seasons just because they don't measure up to a career year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
You can't just look at the numbers and assume that Cheechoo has declined in production because he had a "fluke" season.

Cheechoo put up more than 20 goals playing on the 3rd line with Sharks before Thornton even got here. When JT got here he and Cheechoo developed amazing chemistry for that season AND Cheechoo was healthy for the just about the entire regular season.

Last season he came into camp having had double sports-hernia surgery over the summer that prevented him to do practically any exercise in the offseason. He was out of shape and still healing through most of the regular season. In the last 20 or so games of last season he finally got fully healthy and went on a scoring tear, and the Sharks went on a major winning streak.

This season the Sharks wanted to develope more than 1 major scoring line, so Michalek and Cheechoo were moved off of JT's line to give Pavelski some more experienced line-mates, while Marleau and Setoguchi were moved up to JT's line. Cheechoo was doing fine on the 2nd line until he got injured (relatively minor, but enough that the team would rather sit him) and he was out for several games. Meanwhile, Ryane Clowe got hot playing in his spot on the 2nd line, so when Cheechoo came back (just one game so far) Cheechoo took his place on the 3rd line.

One thing about Cheechoo's style of play is that he almost guaranteed to get injured. He digs in along the boards, forechecks hard, and most importantly he spends a LOT of time in near the front of other teams goal. This means he gets pounded a LOT, and he's not a huge dude, so he takes punishment. But he's got an absolutely monster one-timer and his shot can be devastatingly accurate.

I actually want to keep him around, but the simple fact is that the Sharks are going to need to sign some important players in the next year or so, and they have a fair amount of depth at RW (Setoguchi, Clowe [RW and LW], Grier, Morris, etc) and Cheechoo is among the current pieces who could be moved for both a good return and who could clear a decent amount of cap space ($3 million). It's quite possible that Cheechoo could end up stuck on the Sharks 3rd line, but if so he would be like Jiri Hudler, a 3rd line guy with enough skill to play on any line, and who would probably be in the top 6 (if not the top line) of nearly any other team that didn't have the massive depth the Sharks do.
I would think that if a 50 goal scorer still "had it in him" he wouldnt be sitting on the 3rd line. And I also don't believe your team would be so quick and eager to trade him.

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Old
11-22-2008, 09:43 AM
  #59
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I would think that if a 50 goal scorer still "had it in him" he wouldnt be sitting on the 3rd line. And I also don't believe your team would be so quick and eager to trade him.
What makes you think that the team is eager to trade him?

Just because some fans think that it may be necessary in the future, with the team being close to the cap and needing to re-sign some players, doesn't mean that the GM is of the same opinion.

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Old
11-22-2008, 01:05 PM
  #60
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I would think that if a 50 goal scorer still "had it in him" he wouldnt be sitting on the 3rd line. And I also don't believe your team would be so quick and eager to trade him.
He's been on the 3rd line for all 2 games, after being out for 10 days with an injury. That's not exactly surprising.

And no one said the team is eager to trade him. All you have is Sharks fans discussing that he might be the one to go given our cap situation and the need to re-sign a number of players after this coming season. Take a look at the Sharks salary structure and you'll see the situation they are in.

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Old
11-22-2008, 02:59 PM
  #61
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i actually like this Goligoski for Cheech proposal. i don't understand all the people who are saying the Sharks don't need D. maybe not at the moment they don't, but Blake will be gone next year and Lukowich the year after that, and Boyle isn't going to be the same great player he is right now in 3-4 years. Goligoski is young and very talented, he would probably play a big role in the Sharks D as soon as next year if this trade were to happen.

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11-22-2008, 03:13 PM
  #62
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You don't make a trade in reaction to something that isn't going to happen for another three or four years.

Right now, the Sharks have zero need for Goligoski, but they do have a need for Cheechoo.
It doesn't matter one bit whether Lukowich will be gone in two years, he's the 6th defenseman. He fills his role right now, and when the time is right, he will be replaced by someone in the system or by a minor trade.

San Jose has Boyle, Ehrhoff and Vlasic, who will play lots of minutes for years to come. Murray has his role and Joslin and Petrecki are up and coming. None of those guys is anywhere near the end of their respective prime.

You don't make a trade that makes you worse right now, just because a need may arise in the future. Especially if you are first in the league and want to win the Cup.

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11-22-2008, 03:20 PM
  #63
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i actually like this Goligoski for Cheech proposal. i don't understand all the people who are saying the Sharks don't need D. maybe not at the moment they don't, but Blake will be gone next year and Lukowich the year after that, and Boyle isn't going to be the same great player he is right now in 3-4 years. Goligoski is young and very talented, he would probably play a big role in the Sharks D as soon as next year if this trade were to happen.
I like the proposal as well but the time is not now to make such a trade. In-season trades are made to fill a hole right now when you're a contending team.

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Old
11-22-2008, 08:07 PM
  #64
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You don't make a trade in reaction to something that isn't going to happen for another three or four years.

Right now, the Sharks have zero need for Goligoski, but they do have a need for Cheechoo.
It doesn't matter one bit whether Lukowich will be gone in two years, he's the 6th defenseman. He fills his role right now, and when the time is right, he will be replaced by someone in the system or by a minor trade.

San Jose has Boyle, Ehrhoff and Vlasic, who will play lots of minutes for years to come. Murray has his role and Joslin and Petrecki are up and coming. None of those guys is anywhere near the end of their respective prime.

You don't make a trade that makes you worse right now, just because a need may arise in the future. Especially if you are first in the league and want to win the Cup.

In my opinion, the sharks DON'T have a need for Cheechoo, this is why I made the OP. What's the point of putting a guy like Cheech who can't skate the length of himself on a third line shut down unit? Draper-Maltby-McCarty were a great example of a third line that gave opposing #1 units fits when playing against them. I'm in no way comparing a line of say, Grier-Goc-Mitchell to those guys, but I think it's necessary to be successful. Right now Cheech can only serve us better if he plays on a top two line and I feel he's hurting us in the long run playing on the third line.

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11-22-2008, 11:33 PM
  #65
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I'm watching the Sharks/Caps game and wow... me want one of your wingers.

I realize Setoguchi is off-limits.

But Michalek, Cheechoo, Clowe.... How much does the trade value differ between these three?

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11-23-2008, 12:38 AM
  #66
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I'm watching the Sharks/Caps game and wow... me want one of your wingers.

I realize Setoguchi is off-limits.

But Michalek, Cheechoo, Clowe.... How much does the trade value differ between these three?
If Michalek continues on his current trajectory, he could easily become a perennial Selke candidate.. putting up 20-30 goals a year. Clowe fills a role that no one else on the team seems able to do as well.. as the big man around the net. Those 2 are probably the least available among the 3. The only reason Cheechoo might be available is because you are seeing Devin Setoguchi just playing phenomenally, but I doubt it happens during this year. He might be gone in the offseason, but it would only be for cap space reasons and because the Sharks have some guys in the system who could fill in on the 3rd or 4th line.. with Morris having the potential to be a 2nd line guy if he can stay healthy.

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11-23-2008, 01:06 AM
  #67
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Just wait until Clowe or Seto go cold, then Cheech picks it up. Cheech is the definition of depth right now. If Seto or Clowe drop off, Cheech scores a hat trick. That's the beauty of redundancy.

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11-23-2008, 01:43 AM
  #68
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Think Edmonton would try and put cheechoo on a line with hemsky or is he too slow for him?

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11-23-2008, 03:40 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by MattPippy View Post
In my opinion, the sharks DON'T have a need for Cheechoo, this is why I made the OP. What's the point of putting a guy like Cheech who can't skate the length of himself on a third line shut down unit? Draper-Maltby-McCarty were a great example of a third line that gave opposing #1 units fits when playing against them. I'm in no way comparing a line of say, Grier-Goc-Mitchell to those guys, but I think it's necessary to be successful. Right now Cheech can only serve us better if he plays on a top two line and I feel he's hurting us in the long run playing on the third line.
Cheechoo scored 28 goals playing on the shutdown unit with Scott Thornton and Mike Ricci, he's perfectly capable of playing such a role.

Not to mention that the season isn't about to be over, injuries can happen or one of the other wingers may drop of considerably, bringing Cheechoo back on a scoring line.

Bringing in a defenseman who doesn't improve your defense right now, isn't anywhere near what Cheechoo brings to the team. Who would replace Setoguchi or Clowe on a scoring line in case of injury, Mike Grier, Jody Shelley?

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11-23-2008, 08:05 AM
  #70
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Cheechoo scored 28 goals playing on the shutdown unit with Scott Thornton and Mike Ricci, he's perfectly capable of playing such a role.

Not to mention that the season isn't about to be over, injuries can happen or one of the other wingers may drop of considerably, bringing Cheechoo back on a scoring line.

Bringing in a defenseman who doesn't improve your defense right now, isn't anywhere near what Cheechoo brings to the team. Who would replace Setoguchi or Clowe on a scoring line in case of injury, Mike Grier, Jody Shelley?

Point taken, however, I believe Mcginn could step into a 2nd line scoring role if Clowe or Seto got injured. You could also give Kaspar or Couture a chance as well but yes, I realize they probably can't bring what Cheech offers in that kind of position.

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11-23-2008, 08:07 AM
  #71
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If Michalek continues on his current trajectory, he could easily become a perennial Selke candidate..
Just curious if you know what perennial means or do you just like the sound of the word?

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11-23-2008, 10:54 AM
  #72
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Point taken, however, I believe Mcginn could step into a 2nd line scoring role if Clowe or Seto got injured. You could also give Kaspar or Couture a chance as well but yes, I realize they probably can't bring what Cheech offers in that kind of position.
You're talking about taking a chance on unproven commodities as replacements over a proven one in Cheechoo. Besides, when you're the best team in the league, there's no need to make a change in the locker room.

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11-23-2008, 12:46 PM
  #73
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Just curious if you know what perennial means or do you just like the sound of the word?
Yes, I know what perennial means, which is why I used the word. And no, I wasn't talking about the word as used for plants, I was talking about this use of the word:

a: persistent , enduring <perennial favorites>
b: continuing without interruption : constant , perpetual <the perennial quest for certainty> <a perennial student>
c: regularly repeated or renewed

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