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Old
11-21-2008, 05:25 PM
  #51
DeeMeck
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If you go back through this thread and delete all of Dustin Brown, and switch every Gaborik to a Kovalchuk it could be more palatable.

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Old
11-21-2008, 05:42 PM
  #52
Buddy The Elf
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Originally Posted by ShadowFlyer View Post
Does the season end in January?
For the Kings, in most season it does.

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Old
11-21-2008, 07:31 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by LAKings4ever View Post
Brown - team captain, good on ice leader, good locker room guy
Gaborik - selfish, greedy, injury prone
IMO, Gaborik's personality is blown way out of proportion. First, he was also named Captain of the Wilds. If he was such a bad example, he wouldn't be named captain in the first place.

Also, IMO its not that he's greedy, its just that he doesn't seem to want to be in Minnesota. But that's not really his fault either. Once the player gets drafted, they have very little choice in where they end up playing. UFA is not just about money but also its a chance for players to go where they want to be. Many players have done this. But Gaborik is getting ripped because he turned down Minnesota's big bag of money. Isn't that the opposite of greedy?

Injury prone, ya that's no arguing with that.

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Old
11-21-2008, 08:40 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Kingler View Post
IMO, Gaborik's personality is blown way out of proportion. First, he was also named Captain of the Wilds. If he was such a bad example, he wouldn't be named captain in the first place.

Also, IMO its not that he's greedy, its just that he doesn't seem to want to be in Minnesota. But that's not really his fault either. Once the player gets drafted, they have very little choice in where they end up playing. UFA is not just about money but also its a chance for players to go where they want to be. Many players have done this. But Gaborik is getting ripped because he turned down Minnesota's big bag of money. Isn't that the opposite of greedy?

Injury prone, ya that's no arguing with that.
I will be very surprised to see if his rejecting the Wild's offer was about money or if it was about Minnesota in general.

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Old
11-21-2008, 10:09 PM
  #55
Ugene Malkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingler View Post
IMO, Gaborik's personality is blown way out of proportion. First, he was also named Captain of the Wilds. If he was such a bad example, he wouldn't be named captain in the first place.

Also, IMO its not that he's greedy, its just that he doesn't seem to want to be in Minnesota. But that's not really his fault either. Once the player gets drafted, they have very little choice in where they end up playing. UFA is not just about money but also its a chance for players to go where they want to be. Many players have done this. But Gaborik is getting ripped because he turned down Minnesota's big bag of money. Isn't that the opposite of greedy?

Injury prone, ya that's no arguing with that.
Well in his case, it is not going to be about money if he wants to be some where he dreamed of being. Say he wanted to be in NY. I doubt that NY. will be willing to offer 8 to 9 mil. for a Regular in the ER. He should take 6 to 6.5 for a chance at being where he wants, with a bad history of injuries. That covers all his missed time during the year, unless he misses the whole year.

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Old
11-21-2008, 10:11 PM
  #56
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Really this is one case where all the GM's need to stand there ground and not just throw away money to a part timer.... Pay this guy what his actual worth is.

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Old
11-21-2008, 10:25 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by odds View Post
Well in his case, it is not going to be about money if he wants to be some where he dreamed of being. Say he wanted to be in NY. I doubt that NY. will be willing to offer 8 to 9 mil. for a Regular in the ER. He should take 6 to 6.5 for a chance at being where he wants, with a bad history of injuries. That covers all his missed time during the year, unless he misses the whole year.
Yes, I don't think that if he becomes UFA, he will get a much better offer than in Minnesota. The caps probably won't go up that much next year because of the economy and many teams already are constraints by the cap. Not to mention that there will be various star players that could be available next summer to divide the "pie".

So that would indicate to me that he really doesn't want to be in Minnesota for whatever reason (location/team/coach). Which in my opinion, players have the right to feel given how young players have little choice in which team they end up playing with.

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Old
11-21-2008, 10:39 PM
  #58
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I give the OP kudos for making an effort to propose a fair trade. 99.8% of the proposals here involve one team's trash for another team's superstar, and everyone rips these proposals and tells the poster to learn about hockey. In this case, the guy actually involved three players who are all valuable in their own way, and people start puffing out their chest and talking about how they're getting screwed and vowing "our players are going nowhere". I get the feeling that nobody is happy here unless they have something to piss and moan about.

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Old
11-21-2008, 11:01 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by RottenScoundrel View Post
Holy smokes LA fans, you can't have your cake and eat it too. In order to aquire a top-end talent you've got to give up something other than picks and spare parts.

Haven't most Kings fans in this forum been clamouring for a stud winger? Despite the talk of 'broken glass', 'fragile, and 'injury prone', Marian Gaborik is legitimate. Unfortunately, for the great fans of Minnesota, he won't sign with the Wild. However, placing him on a team with world class talent and a shot at the cup in a year or so could possibly persuade Gabby to sign a long term extension at a friendly cap hit. A top line consisting of Frolov/Kopitar/Gaborik would be downright sick and probably considered one of, if not the best in the NHL, not to mention extremely fun to watch.

Reason to include all three teams? The Pens and Kings don't seem to be a good match.

Minnesota needs to get something for Gaborik and Staal seems to be a perfect fit.

The Pens would love to have Dustin Brown and Staal would be expendable for the right player -- Brown is that player.

LA gets their stud winger.

Without a Gaborik extension, this deal is null and void.

The value seems good.
The point in Kings fans wanting a stud winger is to add him to what they have, not to trade a 1st line player for a 1st line player. Most Kings fans understand the concept of giving to get something quite well. The Kings have plenty of top prospects and picks they could move in order to add to what they already have on their roster. Gaborik however is not the player the Kings should be targeting. He's injury prone and the bad LA ice is the last place a guy with a history of groin problems should be going to play. Not to mention with Kopitar's long term deal, adding another player making as much or more as Kopitar will be making when his new contract kicks in, it will make it extremely tough to keep this team together regarding the cap.

Besides, the idea of the Kings trading Brown is absurd. How many teams go out and sign a player to a 6 year contract and then trade him less than 20 games into that contract, especially after naming him team captain? When was the last time an NHL team did that? Brown's pretty darn close to untouchable. Gaborik isn't one of the players the Kings would consider moving Brown for.

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Old
11-21-2008, 11:37 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingler View Post
IMO, Gaborik's personality is blown way out of proportion. First, he was also named Captain of the Wilds. If he was such a bad example, he wouldn't be named captain in the first place.

Also, IMO its not that he's greedy, its just that he doesn't seem to want to be in Minnesota. But that's not really his fault either. Once the player gets drafted, they have very little choice in where they end up playing. UFA is not just about money but also its a chance for players to go where they want to be. Many players have done this. But Gaborik is getting ripped because he turned down Minnesota's big bag of money. Isn't that the opposite of greedy?

Injury prone, ya that's no arguing with that.
The Wild rotate captains, so almost eveyone has at one point or another been captain, doesn't make them all good leaders. Gaborik has had two contract diputes in his short time in the league, that = greedy in my eyes. The Wild the past few years have done nothing but cater to him and try and make him happy, they brought in Demitra, that didn't work, they threw huge money at him, that didn't work. Almost any interveiw i've heard him or his agent do hints at him not liking the system and thinking he's underpaid, or other such nonsense. That's why he gets flak for being greedy and a me first type player, because he comes off that why most of the time.

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Old
11-22-2008, 01:18 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
The Wild rotate captains, so almost eveyone has at one point or another been captain, doesn't make them all good leaders. Gaborik has had two contract diputes in his short time in the league, that = greedy in my eyes. The Wild the past few years have done nothing but cater to him and try and make him happy, they brought in Demitra, that didn't work, they threw huge money at him, that didn't work. Almost any interveiw i've heard him or his agent do hints at him not liking the system and thinking he's underpaid, or other such nonsense. That's why he gets flak for being greedy and a me first type player, because he comes off that why most of the time.
First, I don't think "almost everyone" was team captain. The captain rotation is done on about 4-5 players. But regardless, you don't just pick anyone to be team captain just for the sake of it.

As far as being greedy. Is a player obligated to love the city and team that drafted him? Its only viewed as greedy because in people's mind, they only see the money dimension. Like a self reflection. "Man if I have $8M, I'll play anywhere." So that makes you greedy, not him.

But players have taken less to move to another team. Scott Niedermayer took less to play with his brother in Anaheim. Is he greedy?

edit: oh and I more point, Demitra...where is he now that he became UFA?


Last edited by Kingler: 11-22-2008 at 01:33 AM.
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Old
11-22-2008, 09:52 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danaluvsthekings View Post
The point in Kings fans wanting a stud winger is to add him to what they have, not to trade a 1st line player for a 1st line player. Most Kings fans understand the concept of giving to get something quite well. The Kings have plenty of top prospects and picks they could move in order to add to what they already have on their roster. Gaborik however is not the player the Kings should be targeting. He's injury prone and the bad LA ice is the last place a guy with a history of groin problems should be going to play. Not to mention with Kopitar's long term deal, adding another player making as much or more as Kopitar will be making when his new contract kicks in, it will make it extremely tough to keep this team together regarding the cap.

Besides, the idea of the Kings trading Brown is absurd. How many teams go out and sign a player to a 6 year contract and then trade him less than 20 games into that contract, especially after naming him team captain? When was the last time an NHL team did that? Brown's pretty darn close to untouchable. Gaborik isn't one of the players the Kings would consider moving Brown for.
Like him or not, Gaborik has world class talent. As long as he's not Avery, I'd be thrilled to add him to LA's line up next summer. He is the game breaker LA needs. Kopi, Brown, and Osullivan are stars for sure. Kopi has the ability to control outcomes of games but needs to do it more consistently. Gaborik is a pure goal scorer that teams have to always be aware of which would also create room for other players. One of Hossa or Gaborik is who I would target if I were DL. Maybe JBow if ODonnell can't be resigned.

Kings are going to be scary good if their defense holds up and the offense starts flowing.

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Old
11-22-2008, 09:58 AM
  #63
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Amazing commentary. A++. Would read again.
Hahaha. So true. So funny.

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Old
11-22-2008, 10:45 AM
  #64
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I'm not even a Kings fan and I can see that they are getting shafted HUGE on this one.
You can't possibly think they are getting shafted from a talent standpoint. Gaborik is far and away the best player in the deal.

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Old
11-22-2008, 04:02 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
Like him or not, Gaborik has world class talent. As long as he's not Avery, I'd be thrilled to add him to LA's line up next summer. He is the game breaker LA needs. Kopi, Brown, and Osullivan are stars for sure. Kopi has the ability to control outcomes of games but needs to do it more consistently. Gaborik is a pure goal scorer that teams have to always be aware of which would also create room for other players. One of Hossa or Gaborik is who I would target if I were DL. Maybe JBow if ODonnell can't be resigned.

Kings are going to be scary good if their defense holds up and the offense starts flowing.
With as many people who worry about Frolovs groin problems, which pale in comparison, it suprises me to see how many actually want to go out and get a guy that may play 70 games a year.

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11-22-2008, 04:07 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by BP Mites View Post
You can't possibly think they are getting shafted from a talent standpoint. Gaborik is far and away the best player in the deal.
Yet when he misses as many games as he does, the difference in talent is lost. The guys groin has the strength of wet toilet paper. Hes already missed 15 games this year to this point, how many more is he going to miss? Trading a core player who is the team captain for a guy who may play 65 games is getting shafted regardless of the difference in talent level.

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Old
11-22-2008, 04:15 PM
  #67
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Will you please stop - I beg you - please -

just ask yourself WHY? WHY would the Kings trade Dustin Brown, who is signed, cheap, a banger for a free agent China doll who could sign here in 8 months anyway, no matter WHOM he is traded for.

Please - just - stop.

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11-22-2008, 04:52 PM
  #68
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Will you please stop - I beg you - please -

just ask yourself WHY? WHY would the Kings trade Dustin Brown, who is signed, cheap, a banger for a free agent China doll who could sign here in 8 months anyway, no matter WHOM he is traded for.

Please - just - stop.
But how do expect other people to improve their teams if not by fleecing the Kings?

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Old
11-23-2008, 12:53 PM
  #69
RottenScoundrel
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But how do expect other people to improve their teams if not by fleecing the Kings?
Fleeced? Sure, he's a very good player, on a reasonable contract, but he's not Ovechkin. As one poster already made mention, Gaborik is the elite talent in this proposal.

FWIW, I hear that Ilya Kovalchuk could be available. Perhaps the Kings could send a package of Derek Armstrong, Kyle Calder and Tom Preissing for the Thrashers sniper?

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Old
11-23-2008, 01:14 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by RottenScoundrel View Post
Fleeced? Sure, he's a very good player, on a reasonable contract, but he's not Ovechkin. As one poster already made mention, Gaborik is the elite talent in this proposal.

FWIW, I hear that Ilya Kovalchuk could be available. Perhaps the Kings could send a package of Derek Armstrong, Kyle Calder and Tom Preissing for the Thrashers sniper?
Gaborik's career high of 42 goals isn't all that much better than Brown's 33 last year. Especially considering the Kings would probably have to pay an extra $5 million a year or so for those nine goals.

And if the Kings want Gaborik bad enough, why not just wait until this summer and sign him? No need to trade away your team captain and a bargain of a contract. Of course, then the Penguins wouldn't be getting Brown for an upcoming RFA...

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11-23-2008, 01:30 PM
  #71
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I agree with waiting until the off-season. However, I've perused several threads where King fans have been inquiring about an elite winger. Gaborik is an elite winger who is on the trade block.

In order for the Kings to receive an all-world talent they've got to be willing to give up a key component of their present team or pieces of thier future teams. Afterall, you'd have to assume they're aquiring this elite winger with the intention of having him as a core member of their team, yes?

If that's the case LA will pay what the the trading team feels is true value or the Kings are SOL!

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Old
11-23-2008, 01:38 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by RottenScoundrel View Post
I agree with waiting until the off-season. However, I've perused several threads where King fans have been inquiring about an elite winger. Gaborik is an elite winger who is on the trade block.

In order for the Kings to receive an all-world talent they've got to be willing to give up a key component of their present team or pieces of thier future teams. Afterall, you'd have to assume they're aquiring this elite winger with the intention of having him as a core member of their team, yes?

If that's the case LA will pay what the the trading team feels is true value or the Kings are SOL!
And how does somebody who hasn't played since Oct. 14 help the Kings this season, considering his return date is unknown?

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Old
11-23-2008, 01:42 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by RottenScoundrel View Post
I agree with waiting until the off-season. However, I've perused several threads where King fans have been inquiring about an elite winger. Gaborik is an elite winger who is on the trade block.

In order for the Kings to receive an all-world talent they've got to be willing to give up a key component of their present team or pieces of thier future teams. Afterall, you'd have to assume they're aquiring this elite winger with the intention of having him as a core member of their team, yes?

If that's the case LA will pay what the the trading team feels is true value or the Kings are SOL!
Fact is Kings arent trading their captain who they just signed to a huge extension for a guy who olny play 60 games a year. Wont happen. Especially for a upcoming UFA who they could sign in the offseason.

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