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Old
11-24-2008, 10:45 AM
  #26
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I think it's a pretty fair price to pay.
everyone has been saying that our defence is our weakness, so adding another top pairing d-man (a physically imposing one, at that) would pay dividends. Even if it is a slight overpayment, if that's what it takes to get us #25, why not?

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11-24-2008, 10:56 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by HABIMUS-MAXIMUS View Post
I think the deal you put together is pretty fair for both sides....

J-Bo is a stud Dman who will play almost half of every game.

Plek is a #2 center with offensive and d skills and responsible

Halak is #1 somewhere, just not here. Tomas Vokoun won't last forever, great tandem.

Add O'Byrne to sweeten the pot and give them a Dman back.

We have the talent to replace Plek in the near future.

We would miss Plek offence but flourish with B-man's D


I say YES, do it......6 mil
I agree 100%. There's no way that you don't do that deal if it were on the table.

Plek is a GREAT player and I'm a huge fan of this, but adding Jbo to this team absolutely makes us a legit cup contender and gives us the best d in the entire league (IMO).

Markov - Bouwmeester
Hamrlik - Komisarek
Gorges - Boullion

That is just ridiculous.

Not to mention the absolute stud standing between the pipes if any forwards happen to get past that ridiculous top 6.

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11-24-2008, 10:59 AM
  #28
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Either way it's not a win...you really improve your top 4 on defense, but you create a hole at center. Instead of 3 quality offensive lines you suddenly have Lapierre on your 3rd line? Lang is doing fine on the 3rd line, but as a 2nd line guy he's not that great. Plus the only way JB signs an extension now is for big money(6.5/year minimum for 5-7 years). That puts you in a tough spot with Komisarek Kovy Koivu Tanguay, your defense suddenly eats up half your cap if you don't let Komi walk.

I don't see gainey making that trade.

I believe Mike Komisarek just lowered his value/worth with his play this year and the fact that he MIGHT not be as tough as we thought.

Markov is signed for awhile

Gorges is a bargain

Hammer is signed for a respectable price for 2 more years

Boullion is solid but possibly high for 1.9$ but not far off.

Komo should not get 6-7 mill in my opinion. If he was a THE BEAST we all thought he was or was going to become, he would stand up for his teammates more often. But, unfortunetly, not everyone can hold his own with the NHL heavyweights, but Komo was very weak in all or most of his fights in his career. So far, nobody should be afraid of Komo anymore.....

I love the guy, but, I'm just not afraid of him. minus at least 1 mil$ in his next contract.

I know you will all say that some other GM WILL give him that extra Mil$ so we better pay.....you might be right, I just wanted to point it out.

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11-24-2008, 11:09 AM
  #29
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So you guys actually want to trade the only good center that(as of now) we'll still own the rights to after this year? And that for a rental who we can't afford next year..

No thanks.

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11-24-2008, 11:10 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by HABIMUS-MAXIMUS View Post
I believe Mike Komisarek just lowered his value/worth with his play this year and the fact that he MIGHT not be as tough as we thought.

Markov is signed for awhile

Gorges is a bargain

Hammer is signed for a respectable price for 2 more years

Boullion is solid but possibly high for 1.9$ but not far off.

Komo should not get 6-7 mill in my opinion. If he was a THE BEAST we all thought he was or was going to become, he would stand up for his teammates more often. But, unfortunetly, not everyone can hold his own with the NHL heavyweights, but Komo was very weak in all or most of his fights in his career. So far, nobody should be afraid of Komo anymore.....

I love the guy, but, I'm just not afraid of him. minus at least 1 mil$ in his next contract.

I know you will all say that some other GM WILL give him that extra Mil$ so we better pay.....you might be right, I just wanted to point it out.

I definitely agree that Komo has lowered his value with his subpar play this season, but that has nothing to do with losing a fight to Lucic. It does not matter that he sucks at fighting, that isn't even supposed to be his role. His 'toughness' has everything to do with his actual play, not his abilities as a fighter. The fact that he is always top 5 in both hitting and blocked shots shows that he is in fact extremely tough.

Not he's definitely not worth 6-7 million per season because he's a one-dimensional player. It's great to be tough and good at chipping the puck out of your zone, but to justify that kind of money you need to be a complete package on the back end. Should Komo be making the same kind of money as guys like Markov or Brian Campbell? Absolutely not.

Komo's value to this team (IMO) is around 4 - 4.5 million for 4 years. If it were up to me and he were demanding more than that, then I would gladly let him walk but I would miss him at the same time.

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11-24-2008, 11:12 AM
  #31
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So you guys actually want to trade the only good center that(as of now) we'll still own the rights to after this year? And that for a rental who we can't afford next year..

No thanks.

Jbo completely changes a game that he is involved in... the guy can eat 30 minutes a game and is an absolute ROCK on the backend. He has one of the best strides in the league and it's only a matter of time before his offensive game is taken to a new level due to his raw skill.

I don't understand why we can't afford him next year? If it means that Komo has to walk, and maybe we don't get to keep both Kovy or Tanguay you still do this trade and sign him long-term.

He is going to be a superstar in this league for an awfully long time and would have a much bigger impact on this team than any of Pleks, Tanguay, etc.

Guys of Jbo's talent and skill do not become available very often.

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11-24-2008, 11:23 AM
  #32
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Jbo completely changes a game that he is involved in... the guy can eat 30 minutes a game and is an absolute ROCK on the backend. He has one of the best strides in the league and it's only a matter of time before his offensive game is taken to a new level due to his raw skill.

I don't understand why we can't afford him next year? If it means that Komo has to walk, and maybe we don't get to keep both Kovy or Tanguay you still do this trade and sign him long-term.

He is going to be a superstar in this league for an awfully long time and would have a much bigger impact on this team than any of Pleks, Tanguay, etc.

Guys of Jbo's talent and skill do not become available very often.
Trade Pleks, and you risk having Lapierre as the number 1 center next year. We're stacked on d prospects, very thin on center prospects. I'd rather just wait for those guys to develop, because in the mean time we still have a very good team.

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11-24-2008, 11:24 AM
  #33
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Where do I sign

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Old
11-24-2008, 11:26 AM
  #34
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The only problem tho is that it has been said that they want to get rid of +-4 mils (At least a good amount of money) so i don't know if instead they'd prefer some prospect and draft picks to rebuild.

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11-24-2008, 11:38 AM
  #35
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I definitely agree that Komo has lowered his value with his subpar play this season, but that has nothing to do with losing a fight to Lucic. It does not matter that he sucks at fighting, that isn't even supposed to be his role. His 'toughness' has everything to do with his actual play, not his abilities as a fighter. The fact that he is always top 5 in both hitting and blocked shots shows that he is in fact extremely tough.

Not he's definitely not worth 6-7 million per season because he's a one-dimensional player. It's great to be tough and good at chipping the puck out of your zone, but to justify that kind of money you need to be a complete package on the back end. Should Komo be making the same kind of money as guys like Markov or Brian Campbell? Absolutely not.

Komo's value to this team (IMO) is around 4 - 4.5 million for 4 years. If it were up to me and he were demanding more than that, then I would gladly let him walk but I would miss him at the same time.
I agree with all that you referred to, but I expected Komo to be more than a shot blocker and hitting machine.

Volchenkov for Ottawa is a similar player and similar stats, but, If you are going to throw your weight around and make bold attempts to intimidate the opposing players, you MUST be able to back it up.

I agree Komo is tough, but you will see players challenge him now, and yes, it is because of the 1 fight with Lucic.

We all saw the same fight, didn't we?

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Old
11-24-2008, 12:20 PM
  #36
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What we need is a player a la Alex Burrows right now.

Burrows for Halak would be sweet for us but the Nucks would never make that deal IMO

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11-24-2008, 01:23 PM
  #37
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It seems like alot of people underrate Pleks' real value.. He is one of the most complete centers in the league.. Give him another winger than Kovalev and watch him shine..

Sometime it looks like the fans want this team to look like a country club, just like the NY Rangers of some years ago.. Strange but since Jagr isnt there anymore this team looks more composed and tougher to play against..

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11-24-2008, 01:54 PM
  #38
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It seems like alot of people underrate Pleks' real value.. He is one of the most complete centers in the league.. Give him another winger than Kovalev and watch him shine..

Sometime it looks like the fans want this team to look like a country club, just like the NY Rangers of some years ago.. Strange but since Jagr isnt there anymore this team looks more composed and tougher to play against..
I really like Plekanec, and am not eager to see him traded by any means, but to say that he is one of the most complete centres in the league is probably overrating him. He is good, but as has been shown so far this year, if Kostitsyn and [especially] Kovalev are not playing up to snuff, his game suffers. He just does not have the physical attributes to impose his will on a regular basis....

As for Bouwmeester, I'd be surprised if he even wanted to re-sign in Montreal. Hell, he might want to go join one of the Alberta teams. But he would be a huge addition for any potential cup run and, in my mind, the biggest weakness on this team right now is true NHL caliber depth on defence. The Habs cannot continue to run Brisebois and O'Byrne out there for more than 12-15 minutes a game. They are just not smart enough or strong enough defensively....

The key to trading Plekanec would have to be how comfortable Gainey and Carbonneau would be slotting Chipchura in as the third line centre. He has been stellar in the AHL and is probably close to ready.

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11-24-2008, 01:54 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by HABIMUS-MAXIMUS View Post
I believe Mike Komisarek just lowered his value/worth with his play this year and the fact that he MIGHT not be as tough as we thought.

Markov is signed for awhile

Gorges is a bargain

Hammer is signed for a respectable price for 2 more years

Boullion is solid but possibly high for 1.9$ but not far off.

Komo should not get 6-7 mill in my opinion. If he was a THE BEAST we all thought he was or was going to become, he would stand up for his teammates more often. But, unfortunetly, not everyone can hold his own with the NHL heavyweights, but Komo was very weak in all or most of his fights in his career. So far, nobody should be afraid of Komo anymore.....

I love the guy, but, I'm just not afraid of him. minus at least 1 mil$ in his next contract.

I know you will all say that some other GM WILL give him that extra Mil$ so we better pay.....you might be right, I just wanted to point it out.

So opposing forwards will not be afraid to go wide on him or skate with their heads down because he lost a fight to Lucic? How the **** does that change his market value???

Yeah, he's had an up and down start to the year, but if a guy like Redden can get 6.5 mil com ing off a very crappy year, I'm sure Komi can get around 5 mil on the open market.

If you add that to the around 11 mil that Markov/hamrlik make, if you add Bouwmeeser(at 6.5-7) that brings your top 4 to around 23 mil, by the time you get 3 more d-men you are at 50% of your cap on less than 1/3 of your roster. How do you pay Price a raise, Tanguay? Koivu? Kovy? Lang?(since you just lost your #2 center) A.Kost? S.Kost?

In a cap world it makes no sense to sign both Komi and Bouwmeester.

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11-24-2008, 02:05 PM
  #40
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I attended the Florida game this year and I kept a close eye on JBo to see how he plays, and he's easily much better than Komo. Only thing is, I heard he doesn't have leadership skils, while Komo does. If we could get a relatively cheap(not ridiculously cheap) Komisarek, and tie Jbo up long term, I'd be all for it.

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11-24-2008, 02:09 PM
  #41
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I would ready to pay A LOT for JBouw. But he has to sign long term before. But anybody, minus 1 or 2 guys, is actually available for a guy like him.

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11-24-2008, 02:27 PM
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I would ready to pay A LOT for JBouw. But he has to sign long term before. But anybody, minus 1 or 2 guys, is actually available for a guy like him.
But, can we really have 5,5M+5,75M+4M+6M locked for our top 4??I mean that's a lot of cash. And I'm being optimistic with the numbers here.

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11-24-2008, 02:31 PM
  #43
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But, can we really have 5,5M+5,75M+4M+6M locked for our top 4??I mean that's a lot of cash. And I'm being optimistic with the numbers here.
It could be at the cost of a Komisarek or.....a Markov....But then it would a NHL09 deal and JBouw wouldn't be the sole guy in that deal. I would love to have Booth in there. So a 3 for 2, 4 for 3...something to that effect.

I agree that it's too much for our top 4.....unless a couple of guys up front pay the price which definately means no Kovy for next year.

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11-24-2008, 02:38 PM
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But, can we really have 5,5M+5,75M+4M+6M locked for our top 4??I mean that's a lot of cash. And I'm being optimistic with the numbers here.
Assuming he could get Bouwmeester to commit to a deal, maybe Gainey would move away from giving Komisarek a big contract. He is awesome, but if you have a choice of Bouwmeester at 6.5 or Komi at 5.5, which would you take?.....

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11-24-2008, 02:48 PM
  #45
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It could be at the cost of a Komisarek or.....a Markov....But then it would a NHL09 deal and JBouw wouldn't be the sole guy in that deal. I would love to have Booth in there. So a 3 for 2, 4 for 3...something to that effect.

I agree that it's too much for our top 4.....unless a couple of guys up front pay the price which definately means no Kovy for next year.
I don't mind not having Kovy for next year. The guy is 35 now? I mean, we've got to move on and find new leaders on this team and not only depend on one player. Especially a Kovalev.

The thing is, will we have enough to sign everybody else if Bouw is signed at 6M-6.5M??

LoL, if JM trades us Booth, he's really dumb. Oh, well it could happen.

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Assuming he could get Bouwmeester to commit to a deal, maybe Gainey would move away from giving Komisarek a big contract. He is awesome, but if you have a choice of Bouwmeester at 6.5 or Komi at 5.5, which would you take?.....
Komi at 5.5M just won't happen. He's not that stupid to ask, and Bob to offer it. He'll prolly sign for about as much as Phillips. I'd rather have Komi at 4-4.5 than Bouw at 6.5, that's for sure.

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11-24-2008, 02:48 PM
  #46
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So opposing forwards will not be afraid to go wide on him or skate with their heads down because he lost a fight to Lucic? How the **** does that change his market value??? .
Shake your head if you want, but what I'm saying is, if your going to be an intimidating player and base your game on ferocious hits and physical play, you will eventually have to stand toe to toe with the other teams equal. Since he does not contribute offensively, to demand 6 mil$ he better be more of a player than Volchenkov.

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11-24-2008, 03:25 PM
  #47
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Jbo completely changes a game that he is involved in... the guy can eat 30 minutes a game and is an absolute ROCK on the backend. He has one of the best strides in the league and it's only a matter of time before his offensive game is taken to a new level due to his raw skill.

I don't understand why we can't afford him next year? If it means that Komo has to walk, and maybe we don't get to keep both Kovy or Tanguay you still do this trade and sign him long-term.

He is going to be a superstar in this league for an awfully long time and would have a much bigger impact on this team than any of Pleks, Tanguay, etc.

Guys of Jbo's talent and skill do not become available very often.
He's a good d-man but he doesn't have the impact you suggest he has. For all his skating abilities, he isn't great offensively. He has very good physical toold but only average hockey sense. I don't think he is in the class of a guy like Markov.

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11-24-2008, 03:32 PM
  #48
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I agree with all that you referred to, but I expected Komo to be more than a shot blocker and hitting machine.

Volchenkov for Ottawa is a similar player and similar stats, but, If you are going to throw your weight around and make bold attempts to intimidate the opposing players, you MUST be able to back it up.

I agree Komo is tough, but you will see players challenge him now, and yes, it is because of the 1 fight with Lucic.

We all saw the same fight, didn't we?
Just because he lost a fight to Lucic doesn't change his game. The strength of his game is not to go after the Lucic's and Hollowegs of the world, it's to shut down and intimidate the skill players in the league.

The way you back it up is to crunch them every time they go down your wing.

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11-24-2008, 03:40 PM
  #49
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Assuming he could get Bouwmeester to commit to a deal, maybe Gainey would move away from giving Komisarek a big contract. He is awesome, but if you have a choice of Bouwmeester at 6.5 or Komi at 5.5, which would you take?.....
I think if the Habs play their cards right, they can sign Komi at 4.5-4.7 cap hit, but it has to be BEFORE he reaches UFA and they have to go to 6-7 years(like 6, 5, 5, 5, 4, 4, 3). On the UFA market I think his price will range from 20-22 mil over 4 years(5-5.5/year).

Bouwmeeseter on the UFA market gets 7+, I doubt he gives the Habs much of a discount...maybe 6.5 for 4-5 years if they are lucky.

When Komi is on his game I think his value is pretty close to JB's(who I find people on here are overrating by a mile). I can't see paying JB 2-2.5 mil more than Komi.

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11-24-2008, 03:40 PM
  #50
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He's a good d-man but he doesn't have the impact you suggest he has. For all his skating abilities, he isn't great offensively. He has very good physical toold but only average hockey sense. I don't think he is in the class of a guy like Markov.
He's playing for Florida, what did you expect? He still got 40 pts last year or two years ago, too lazy to check.

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