HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Can we Please Call up Giroux!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-24-2008, 12:02 PM
  #26
GoneFullHextall
Fire Berube
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 33,940
vCash: 50
cant people be patient with Giroux? Let him learn the pro game down in the AHL getting top line minutes. I say let him stay down there ass season and then the training camp for the 09/10 season let him proove thats hes good enough to be with the Flyers.

GoneFullHextall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2008, 12:19 PM
  #27
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
It's not about the points it's that he plays responsible defense and is on the same line as Jeff Carter, why should the team feel inclined to break that up outside of an injury? They don't. It's Giroux that was the one who got overrated with 70% of the board handing him a spot on the team in August.
Until he ceases leading this team with a -4 (tied with Lupul) and the worst goals against per 60 minutes rate outside of Downie and Kukkonen (both of whome get/got benched whenever they screwed up), lets hold off on discussing Nodl's "solid defensive play."

Nodl has been fine out there, but he's contributed a grand total of three assists and whenever he's out there the other team has been scoring at a high rate.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2008, 12:59 PM
  #28
CanadianFlyer88
Moderator
Knublin' PPs
 
CanadianFlyer88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Van City
Posts: 15,387
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForsbergIsOdin View Post
I want him to stay down there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon View Post
Giroux's gotta earn it.
These two quotes sum up my opinion.

He doesn't need to be rushed into the NHL. He'll benefit more playing 20ish mninutes a game in the AHL than 10ish minutes a game in the NHL.

He also didn't earn his spot on the big club during training camp, nor has he proven at the AHL level that he's ready for the jump. Give him a full year with the Phantoms and make him earn his spot next fall.

CanadianFlyer88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2008, 01:05 PM
  #29
AaronTrieu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,156
vCash: 500
I don't understand why everyone has a hard on for rushing young players. watching him on the phantoms and I'm not terribly impressed.

AaronTrieu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2008, 01:20 PM
  #30
Protest
C`est La Vie
 
Protest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Deptford, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,634
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronTrieu View Post
I don't understand why everyone has a hard on for rushing young players. watching him on the phantoms and I'm not terribly impressed.
I haven't seen any of him on the phantoms, but he has 17 points and leads the team in goals, but he is also a -9. How has he been playing?

Protest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2008, 01:56 PM
  #31
FlyHigh
Registered User
 
FlyHigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 28,156
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to FlyHigh Send a message via MSN to FlyHigh
Yeah, where has this whole "Nodl is solid defensively" thing come from? I mean, he's not bad, but he is tied for the worst +/- on the team and that's playing with arguably our best player so far.

EDIT: For the record though, I don't mean to start an OT Nodl debate. I think Giroux should preferably stay down for the year unless we really get slammed with injuries. I think a lot of people, myself included, expected a little too much.

I think Giroux will be a good defensive player, but let's keep in mind that he did play in the Q while Nodl played in the WCHA.

FlyHigh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2008, 02:07 PM
  #32
blah
Registered User
 
blah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,269
vCash: 500
Nodl was in college last season. Can we lower our expectations a tad?

blah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2008, 02:17 PM
  #33
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 113,816
vCash: 50
Nodl was -2 in his first game vs. the Sharks (a 7-6 game) and only -2 since he came back from injury. Hartnell is also a -2 since Nodl's injury as they've recently played on the same line. Unless we're talking extremes, we can use +/- to suit whatever argument we please. Nodl for a time, had more SH TOI per game than Hartnell for a time, and still has more than Lupul. Andrew Alberts is +5 and has only recently even been a competent player. If you want to say 'he hasn't been as good as he's been' that's fine, I agree, obviously such a small sample size will tilt the scales dramatically, but don't throw +/- at any argument that is as subjective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronTrieu View Post
I don't understand why everyone has a hard on for rushing young players. watching him on the phantoms and I'm not terribly impressed.
Because after various failed experiments with Clarke, people aren't used to the new standard for this team, which is on par for the rest of the league.

__________________
Philadelphia's Real Alternative
(ynotradio.net)

Stop Feeding the Rumor-Monger

"I wonder if Norstrom has Forsberg's spleen mounted on his wall." - KINGS17

My 50 Favorite Albums of 2014 (sorry it's late)
GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2008, 03:02 PM
  #34
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Nodl was -2 in his first game vs. the Sharks (a 7-6 game) and only -2 since he came back from injury. Hartnell is also a -2 since Nodl's injury as they've recently played on the same line. Unless we're talking extremes, we can use +/- to suit whatever argument we please. Nodl for a time, had more SH TOI per game than Hartnell for a time, and still has more than Lupul. Andrew Alberts is +5 and has only recently even been a competent player. If you want to say 'he hasn't been as good as he's been' that's fine, I agree, obviously such a small sample size will tilt the scales dramatically, but don't throw +/- at any argument that is as subjective.
All of that would be great in defense of your opinion of Nodl if I didn't think Hartnell had been struggling defensively this year, too. So to lump them together doesn't exactly help your case. Nor are we specifically talking about +/-...the telling stat is his atrocious GAON/60 stat (also bad for Hartnell...and Lupul, both of whom have been singled out by Stevens, btw).

Of course the real problem I have with any strong statement about Nodl is that he's a ROOKIE (who almost always struggle defensively), who has been on ice for a lot of goals against. There's quite literally nothing happening on the ice to support any strong claims about Nodl's defensive play.

I would also note...shorthanded play is not indicative of good even strength defensive play. RJ Umberger is a case in point. Guy was a nightmare defensively at center, but an excellent PK'er even during that horrid season.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2008, 03:11 PM
  #35
dbr2
Lockout Beard
 
dbr2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,340
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to dbr2
I'm all for Giroux staying in the AHL this season. We do not need to rush him. I'm also in the same boat with JVR.

dbr2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2008, 03:12 PM
  #36
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 113,816
vCash: 50
You don't have a real center on penalty killing units, jut two forwards, one of who usually takes faceoffs, and even sometimes, not even that. Does you GAON stat reflect his PK time? Because certainly since Lupul gets zero PK time, would skew that.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2008, 03:17 PM
  #37
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
You don't have a real center on penalty killing units, jut two forwards, one of who usually takes faceoffs, and even sometimes, not even that. Does you GAON stat reflect his PK time? Because certainly since Lupul gets zero PK time, would skew that.
these are 5 on 5 statistics. you can look them up for other situations if you want.

and you're outlining why the shorthanded situation is a horrible way to determine if a player is "good defensively." you can be very good as a forward manning your zone of the ice effectively and not be a very good even strength player defensively.

it should be noted that none of this is to suggest that Nodl won't turn out to be a very good defensive player, he just hasn't shown it yet at all.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2008, 03:36 PM
  #38
ipayyou1000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 184
vCash: 500
I dunno its just i think Giroux is 10000x more talented than Nodl even if he is slightly a defensive libailty but he's a wing and hed be playign with Carter. I'd like to give him a couple games and see how he does with Carter? If he does bad send him down but if he runs with it well heyyy why not.

ipayyou1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2008, 04:35 PM
  #39
CantSeeColors
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Country: Seychelles
Posts: 5,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
these are 5 on 5 statistics. you can look them up for other situations if you want.

and you're outlining why the shorthanded situation is a horrible way to determine if a player is "good defensively." you can be very good as a forward manning your zone of the ice effectively and not be a very good even strength player defensively.

it should be noted that none of this is to suggest that Nodl won't turn out to be a very good defensive player, he just hasn't shown it yet at all.
It's not so much that we're arguing that Nodl is limiting the other team's chances (well, at least I'm not, I can't speak to other people's thoughts), but more that he looks competent out there and seems to have the tools and mentality to develop into a solid all-around winger, which is what Carter needs more than a playmaker. Is Nodl a great NHL player right now? Of course not. But neither would Giroux be, and in the grand scheme of things it's more logical to me to let Giroux develop into a top line player in the AHL and let Nodl develop into a solid third line type on Carter's wing than to do the reverse, especially when Carter is on such a tear that he doesn't even need wingers right now, which means Nodl doesn't have to worry about doing too much. Let him learn the position now. It's not as if we have a good NHLer ready to step into that spot, so Nodl is probably the best fit to occupy that spot if we're looking at long term results.

CantSeeColors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2008, 04:48 PM
  #40
BringBackStevens
Registered User
 
BringBackStevens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 12,640
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipayyou1000
I dunno its just i think Giroux is 10000x more talented than Nodl even if he is slightly a defensive libailty but he's a wing and hed be playign with Carter. I'd like to give him a couple games and see how he does with Carter? If he does bad send him down but if he runs with it well heyyy why not.
You are selling Nodl way short. He is a very talented and smart hockey player. At his peak he isn't what Claude would be, but that's not really a bad thing

BringBackStevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2008, 07:35 PM
  #41
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
It's not so much that we're arguing that Nodl is limiting the other team's chances (well, at least I'm not, I can't speak to other people's thoughts), but more that he looks competent out there and seems to have the tools and mentality to develop into a solid all-around winger, which is what Carter needs more than a playmaker. Is Nodl a great NHL player right now? Of course not. But neither would Giroux be, and in the grand scheme of things it's more logical to me to let Giroux develop into a top line player in the AHL and let Nodl develop into a solid third line type on Carter's wing than to do the reverse, especially when Carter is on such a tear that he doesn't even need wingers right now, which means Nodl doesn't have to worry about doing too much. Let him learn the position now. It's not as if we have a good NHLer ready to step into that spot, so Nodl is probably the best fit to occupy that spot if we're looking at long term results.
GKJ has argued on this site that Nodl is better defensively than Gagne.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2008, 10:02 PM
  #42
CantSeeColors
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Country: Seychelles
Posts: 5,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
GKJ has argued on this site that Nodl is better defensively than Gagne.
Okay, well, I'm not on the same page as either of you then. Somewhere in between I suppose.

CantSeeColors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2008, 10:18 PM
  #43
Raffl House
Registered User
 
Raffl House's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: South Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,849
vCash: 500
Nah. Nodl is doing fine and has a ton of energy out there. He hasn't been racking up the points but anyone actually watching the game knows he is creating chances for Carts. He is a good compliment to the line and is earning his spot, for sure.

Raffl House is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2008, 10:26 PM
  #44
Claude28Giroux
praiseG
 
Claude28Giroux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lewiston, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,809
vCash: 500
Our offense is beast as it is now. Let him develop. Can't hurt staying down there.

Claude28Giroux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2008, 10:27 PM
  #45
JLHockeyKnight
IMA Real American
 
JLHockeyKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Central Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 19,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon View Post
Giroux's gotta earn it.
Cannon I swear you always get the 2nd post and you always hit the nail on the head.

JLHockeyKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2008, 10:30 PM
  #46
JLHockeyKnight
IMA Real American
 
JLHockeyKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Central Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 19,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTheNet View Post
Who are you?
I know his name is ipayyou but when I saw the name I pictured him as such:


JLHockeyKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2008, 12:46 AM
  #47
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
Okay, well, I'm not on the same page as either of you then. Somewhere in between I suppose.
Well, I think Nodl has looked like a rookie...fine, and have no problem having him up. I agree that he looks like he has all the skills to develop into a very good pro player, but at the same time he's a rookie and he looks like it at times.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2008, 04:50 PM
  #48
CantSeeColors
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Country: Seychelles
Posts: 5,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Well, I think Nodl has looked like a rookie...fine, and have no problem having him up. I agree that he looks like he has all the skills to develop into a very good pro player, but at the same time he's a rookie and he looks like it at times.
Then I guess we're on the same page. Given Carter's dominance thus far, I think - like many others on this thread - that Nodl is a good fit there. The line produces without any contribution from him, so there's no pressure and anything he can eventually add is a bonus.

CantSeeColors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2008, 05:17 PM
  #49
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
Then I guess we're on the same page. Given Carter's dominance thus far, I think - like many others on this thread - that Nodl is a good fit there. The line produces without any contribution from him, so there's no pressure and anything he can eventually add is a bonus.
Well, the question is whether Nodl is the reason that the line is also coming up without a + with some frequency, even with Carter's dominant play. Carter is only +3 on the year, and only has 4 assists largely because no one else is scoring on the line--certainly partially attributable to his skill-set.

Meanwhile you have Gagne and Richards riding at +12 and 11. Carter either needs some help offensively, or a bit better defense on his line.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2008, 05:20 PM
  #50
HoverCarle*
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,859
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to HoverCarle*
Let him develop. Id rather Shanny for Carter's wing right now. Or try Briere on wing again when he gets back.

Gagne-Richards-Knuble
Hartnell-Carter-Briere
Upshall-Metro-Lupul

HoverCarle* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:22 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.