HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Downie Suspended

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-26-2008, 12:30 AM
  #51
BerubeBox*
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,086
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
We didn't have ANYONE on the team to run the 2nd pairing on defense until we got Carle.
Well, we had Vaananen. I know he spent most of his time with Kimmo and Carle came in around the time he got hurt. But to be fair, Vaananen's been a great D.

I don't disagree with what you're saying really. I'm just playing devils advocate to bolster your point. Carle has been sweet. I don't know how anyone can complain about his performance so far.

BerubeBox* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2008, 12:30 AM
  #52
phlocky
Registered User
 
phlocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,942
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPrinceOfBriere View Post
I would love to take that bet.

He's not a defensive dynamo, nor is he an offensive stud. I'd say maybe above average in both categories. The year everyone raves about he was 6th on the team in average time on ice for defensemen. The followng year he was a huge letdown, and averaged 16 minutes per game! He then went to Tampa, who loved him so much they traded him within 15 games. He puts up one point in Philly and does next to nothing physically, and he's a first pairing defenseman?
Have you actually WATCHED Carle play???

He rarely "hurts" the team with bad choices he makes. Coburn makes more bad decisions than Carle and Sbisa is the king of them right now. If Sbisa hadn't been paired with either Timonen or Carle for most of the past 10 or so games we'd all want the be lynching him because of his bad choices. It's only been because both Timonen and Carle read when he's about to do something stupid and move to cover for him that we survive his blunders. Carle has shown that he reads a play better than Coburn right now. He makes smart safe plays with the puck. If you want to question him being worthy of a 3.4 mil contract with him not scoring right now that's one thing but to deny that he's been the 2nd best dman on our team this year shows either a bias for other player or against Carle or a lack of understanding of the game. I'm not saying any of this because Carle is one of my favorite players or anything (actually, I really don't care one way or the other, he doesn't really excite me or turn me off) but I DO give credit where credit is due. Right now he's the best option for the team as our 2nd best dman (and the ONLY one who can handle the 2nd pairing). Unless we could get someone else in who is either cheaper and just as good or better and at the same price, I'm happy to have him. He DEFINITELY makes our team better.

phlocky is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2008, 12:37 AM
  #53
phlocky
Registered User
 
phlocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,942
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BerubeBox View Post
Well, we had Vaananen. I know he spent most of his time with Kimmo and Carle came in around the time he got hurt. But to be fair, Vaananen's been a great D.

I don't disagree with what you're saying really. I'm just playing devils advocate to bolster your point. Carle has been sweet. I don't know how anyone can complain about his performance so far.
With Vannanen manning the 2nd pairing our 2nd pairing was getting abused. Vannanen could handle himself, as could Coburn, but neither of them could cover when their partner, whomever that was, got caught out of position or made a bad decision. NEITHER of them had any prayer of stopping a 2v1. Carle recognizes these situations as they are developing MUCH MUCH better than Vannanen or Coburn. The MAIN thing that makes Timonen so damn good at the 2v1 against is that he recognizes it so fast and gets himself in a position to limit the other teams chance the best anyone can expect (his speed is the other MAJOR contributing factor). Now I'm not saying that Carle reads these plays anywhere near as good as Timonen or that he ever will but he CLEARLY does it better than either Vannanen or Coburn.

phlocky is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2008, 12:41 AM
  #54
BerubeBox*
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,086
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
With Vannanen manning the 2nd pairing our 2nd pairing was getting abused. Vannanen could handle himself, as could Coburn, but neither of them could cover when their partner, whomever that was, got caught out of position or made a bad decision. NEITHER of them had any prayer of stopping a 2v1. Carle recognizes these situations as they are developing MUCH MUCH better than Vannanen or Coburn. The MAIN thing that makes Timonen so damn good at the 2v1 against is that he recognizes it so fast and gets himself in a position to limit the other teams chance the best anyone can expect (his speed is the other MAJOR contributing factor). Now I'm not saying that Carle reads these plays anywhere near as good as Timonen or that he ever will but he CLEARLY does it better than either Vannanen or Coburn.
Fair enough, but I have the feeling you're putting a little too much emphasis on the 2v1. I also get the feeling you've been having a little drinkypoo

BerubeBox* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2008, 12:51 AM
  #55
Totally Radivojevic
Registered User
 
Totally Radivojevic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 963
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Have you actually WATCHED Carle play???

He rarely "hurts" the team with bad choices he makes. Coburn makes more bad decisions than Carle and Sbisa is the king of them right now. If Sbisa hadn't been paired with either Timonen or Carle for most of the past 10 or so games we'd all want the be lynching him because of his bad choices. It's only been because both Timonen and Carle read when he's about to do something stupid and move to cover for him that we survive his blunders. Carle has shown that he reads a play better than Coburn right now. He makes smart safe plays with the puck. If you want to question him being worthy of a 3.4 mil contract with him not scoring right now that's one thing but to deny that he's been the 2nd best dman on our team this year shows either a bias for other player or against Carle or a lack of understanding of the game. I'm not saying any of this because Carle is one of my favorite players or anything (actually, I really don't care one way or the other, he doesn't really excite me or turn me off) but I DO give credit where credit is due. Right now he's the best option for the team as our 2nd best dman (and the ONLY one who can handle the 2nd pairing). Unless we could get someone else in who is either cheaper and just as good or better and at the same price, I'm happy to have him. He DEFINITELY makes our team better.
I've said he's been decent, and I'm sticking to that. I think a top 4 of Timonen/Sbisa Coburn/Vannanen isn't much of a difference. My feelings on the trade are based partially on my belief that Parent will develop into a top 4 d-man. Carle has been pretty sound, but has had a few bad turnovers that stick out. He hasn't really produced offensively either. I actually agree Coburn hasn't been as good as I've expected, but hey, he's a +5 and Timonen is a -2. I know it's not a tell all stat (Andrew Alberts tied for team lead among defensemen with Coburn), but it's worth something. I think Sbisa is getting examined so closely, that every mistake is magnified.

Totally Radivojevic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2008, 07:37 AM
  #56
JXC
#LaviPondHockeyFail
 
JXC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 13,868
vCash: 500
Time needs to be factored into this discussion. The Flyers organization want to do some winning now. They don't have time to sit around and hope that Steve Downie figures out how to overcome his two digit IQ and become an NHL hockey player.

Ands let's not pretend that he was the principal in that trade. Downie was a toss-in. Tampa knows as well as anyone that Downie's upside is third line, and that's a coin flip.

Carle's skillset fits in well and fits in now. He appears to be a better PP point option than they had and he looks a heckuva lot more Top Four-ish, this year, than the Flyers' other options (Sbisa, Vaananen, Eminger, Parent).

AND, ummmm, there is no such thing as too many defensemen.

JXC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2008, 07:52 AM
  #57
Kambo
 
Kambo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Country: Ireland
Posts: 5,357
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Kambo
Quote:
Originally Posted by BerubeBox View Post
Cool we thought about it on the same level. No offense though honestly, that post gives me a lot of doubt. The non-returned stevens phone-call ... what can I say. I'm not calling you out. But it does feel quite contrived. It's too perfect a slap-in-the-face.

I'm taking it for what it's worth.
The one thing I will say if Downie does ever come back. When it happens, John Stevens will not be the coach. And can you honestly blame the guy for not wanting to talk to him? That is exactly what it is, a slap in the face. But too perfect would have been answering the phone, telling him he's going to regret making the decisions he did regarding Downie, and then proceed to hang up on him. Trust me, I would more than likely be taking your standpoint if I didn't know any better, but I promise I do have legit connections.

Kambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2008, 07:54 AM
  #58
ToTheNet
Registered User
 
ToTheNet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Holland, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 3,278
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ToTheNet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kambo View Post
The one thing I will say if Downie does ever come back. When it happens, John Stevens will not be the coach. And can you honestly blame the guy for not wanting to talk to him? That is exactly what it is, a slap in the face. But too perfect would have been answering the phone, telling him he's going to regret making the decisions he did regarding Downie, and then proceed to hang up on him. Trust me, I would more than likely be taking your standpoint if I didn't know any better, but I promise I do have legit connections.
yea . . . she was there in his bed!

ToTheNet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2008, 08:11 AM
  #59
BerubeBox*
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,086
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kambo View Post
Trust me, I would more than likely be taking your standpoint
Same here, if I were trying to bs.

I don't want to start a 'thing'. But that just sounded really indicative of guilt.

I really don't care. I tried to just type the letter 'k' as my entire response because it would be nice and ambiguous, but ol' vbbbs or whatever it is, won't allow fewer than 4 characters.

BerubeBox* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2008, 08:52 AM
  #60
Kambo
 
Kambo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Country: Ireland
Posts: 5,357
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Kambo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTheNet View Post
yea . . . she was there in his bed!
Unfortunately I was not haha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BerubeBox View Post
Same here, if I were trying to bs.

I don't want to start a 'thing'. But that just sounded really indicative of guilt.

I really don't care. I tried to just type the letter 'k' as my entire response because it would be nice and ambiguous, but ol' vbbbs or whatever it is, won't allow fewer than 4 characters.
I have better things to do than to ******** people. I know the manager of a bar which sat right beneath Downie's apartment. I can vouch because I've seen him there plenty of times before, but of course that doesn't mean anything. Anyway, they apparently keep in touch, as Downie came to be a very good friend of theirs. I really wouldn't go out of my way to make **** up. It's not my style.

Kambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2008, 08:56 AM
  #61
ToTheNet
Registered User
 
ToTheNet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Holland, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 3,278
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ToTheNet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kambo View Post
Unfortunately I was not haha.



I have better things to do than to ******** people. I know the manager of a bar which sat right beneath Downie's apartment. I can vouch because I've seen him there plenty of times before, but of course that doesn't mean anything. Anyway, they apparently keep in touch, as Downie came to be a very good friend of theirs. I really wouldn't go out of my way to make **** up. It's not my style.
Actually you may not want to be in his bed . . . but that is something I can tell you off the boards as it could get me in trouble.

ToTheNet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2008, 09:00 AM
  #62
BerubeBox*
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,086
vCash: 500
Sounds ok to me. Nothing especially genuine, but much better than "i'd doubt me too!!"

BerubeBox* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2008, 09:19 AM
  #63
Kambo
 
Kambo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Country: Ireland
Posts: 5,357
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Kambo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTheNet View Post
Actually you may not want to be in his bed . . . but that is something I can tell you off the boards as it could get me in trouble.
I believe it. I'm sure there's quite a few of them I wouldn't want to be anywhere near. I don't need crabs or the .

Quote:
Originally Posted by BerubeBox View Post
Sounds ok to me. Nothing especially genuine, but much better than "i'd doubt me too!!"
I've had enough instances in my life where people "swore" to the high heavens they knew somebody and it came back to bite them in the ass. Because of that, I have a hard time believing people when they claim they know someone, which is what I meant by that.

Kambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2008, 09:28 AM
  #64
ToTheNet
Registered User
 
ToTheNet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Holland, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 3,278
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ToTheNet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kambo View Post
I believe it. I'm sure there's quite a few of them I wouldn't want to be anywhere near. I don't need crabs or the .



I've had enough instances in my life where people "swore" to the high heavens they knew somebody and it came back to bite them in the ass. Because of that, I have a hard time believing people when they claim they know someone, which is what I meant by that.
It is actually one of the few you CAN'T get rid of.

ToTheNet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2008, 09:34 AM
  #65
Kambo
 
Kambo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Country: Ireland
Posts: 5,357
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Kambo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTheNet View Post
It is actually one of the few you CAN'T get rid of.
Gross. This is the exact reason I will never understand the bunnies.

Kambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2008, 09:40 AM
  #66
ToTheNet
Registered User
 
ToTheNet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Holland, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 3,278
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ToTheNet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kambo View Post
Gross. This is the exact reason I will never understand the bunnies.
He tried to get with a relative of mine and she found that out and bailed . . . although she was already seeing one or two other players at the time. I think she is finally done with that aspect of her life though, but you never know.

ToTheNet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2008, 03:36 PM
  #67
Totally Radivojevic
Registered User
 
Totally Radivojevic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 963
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Time needs to be factored into this discussion. The Flyers organization want to do some winning now. They don't have time to sit around and hope that Steve Downie figures out how to overcome his two digit IQ and become an NHL hockey player.

Ands let's not pretend that he was the principal in that trade. Downie was a toss-in. Tampa knows as well as anyone that Downie's upside is third line, and that's a coin flip.

Carle's skillset fits in well and fits in now. He appears to be a better PP point option than they had and he looks a heckuva lot more Top Four-ish, this year, than the Flyers' other options (Sbisa, Vaananen, Eminger, Parent).

AND, ummmm, there is no such thing as too many defensemen.
What? Are you saying Steve Eminger was the main piece Tampa wanted back?

Totally Radivojevic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2008, 09:16 PM
  #68
JXC
#LaviPondHockeyFail
 
JXC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 13,868
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPrinceOfBriere View Post
What? Are you saying Steve Eminger was the main piece Tampa wanted back?
I think they wanted a low-paid defenseman in return for their high-paid defenseman, yes.

JXC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2008, 10:04 PM
  #69
lancer247
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,878
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey Tatum View Post
Could you imagine if Holmgren managed to get him back? Even with his issues, Id love him back on the team.
flyers have a track record of bringing guys back thats for sure.

recchi, renberg, tocchet, berube, therien, boucher

lancer247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2008, 11:31 PM
  #70
Totally Radivojevic
Registered User
 
Totally Radivojevic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 963
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
I think they wanted a low-paid defenseman in return for their high-paid defenseman, yes.
I do not agree that Eminger was the main piece in the trade.

Totally Radivojevic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2008, 11:44 AM
  #71
Raffl House
Registered User
 
Raffl House's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: South Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,849
vCash: 513
We hosed Tampa. And to think more than half of this board were calling for Holmgren's head. The man knows what he is doing -- recognized he made a mistake in Eminger and Downie was going nowhere. Absolutely brilliant.

Raffl House is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2008, 11:57 AM
  #72
chaosof99*
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Austria
Country: Austria
Posts: 16,614
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carle Winslow View Post
We hosed Tampa. And to think more than half of this board were calling for Holmgren's head. The man knows what he is doing -- recognized he made a mistake in Eminger and Downie was going nowhere. Absolutely brilliant.
I'm still thinking that Downie might have become fed up with riding the elevator and asked to be traded. I still think Downie got a ton of talent, but he really needs to take some anger management classes. It's really a shame how he ends up wasting his talent.

While I still think he got pretty much smothered under Stevens, this newest suspension really somehow worries me. I hope he develops a bit better in Tampa and maybe he'll become a real hockey player. On the other hand I'm not even sure if Downie will ever get a chance again since he has very much become notorious in the officiating circles.

I think it was clearly the right choice for both Downie and the Flyers to go separate ways, now if only Downie would make something out of that. As for the trade itself, I believe that we clearly won that trade judging by the results so far. We improved, Tampa did not as they are 2-4-3 since the trade.

chaosof99* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2008, 12:41 PM
  #73
CanadianFlyer88
Moderator
Knublin' PPs
 
CanadianFlyer88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Van City
Posts: 13,166
vCash: 955
Apparently Downie has been recalled by Tampa due to an injury suffered last night by David Koci.

CanadianFlyer88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:37 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.