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Old
11-26-2008, 11:41 PM
  #1
holyhabs87
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A coach for our defensmen

The more and more I think about it, it becomes clearly evident that we need a coach for our d-men.

I hate to pick on Obyrne but dude just take the body. half of his errors would be negated if he just checked the guy. he is 6'5 for christ sakes. he should be strong enough to knock the guy off the puck. seems like every game he makes the same mistake. samsonov...kessel....franzen...hit the guy!!!

think about it.

who are the next wave of players that we have coming into the habs roster???

most of them are d-men. we cant keep missing the boat with our young d-men. robidas, beauchmain, hainsey ALL gone. thats freaking unbelievable. we would NOT be looking for a 4th dman if we had a d coach.

now here we are looking for a dman to play the point. here we are looking for a 4th dman. it seems like all our MAIN problems are related to defensemen. it is time for a specialist in my opinion.

just as a side note. gorges was a MONSTER tonight. did pierre talk about him????

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11-26-2008, 11:46 PM
  #2
TheGoalJudge
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No coach can help O'Byrne. What do you tell him? Don't shoot it into your own net? Don't get spun around like a turnstile?

He's soft man.

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11-27-2008, 06:15 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
The more and more I think about it, it becomes clearly evident that we need a coach for our d-men.

I hate to pick on Obyrne but dude just take the body. half of his errors would be negated if he just checked the guy. he is 6'5 for christ sakes. he should be strong enough to knock the guy off the puck. seems like every game he makes the same mistake. samsonov...kessel....franzen...hit the guy!!!

think about it.

who are the next wave of players that we have coming into the habs roster???

most of them are d-men. we cant keep missing the boat with our young d-men. robidas, beauchmain, hainsey ALL gone. thats freaking unbelievable. we would NOT be looking for a 4th dman if we had a d coach.

now here we are looking for a dman to play the point. here we are looking for a 4th dman. it seems like all our MAIN problems are related to defensemen. it is time for a specialist in my opinion.

just as a side note. gorges was a MONSTER tonight. did pierre talk about him????
Jean Perron is that you?

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11-27-2008, 06:23 AM
  #4
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Jeeze some of you guys are too much.

O'Byrne played a decent game tonight. He got burned once and it led to a goal. If I remember correctly Markov was turned inside out by Grabovsky and no one screamed that markov sucks.

I don't know if you noticed but they had O'Byrne out killing penalties. I think the jury is still out whether this kid will be a good NHL'er but last night he was alright.

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11-27-2008, 07:16 AM
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Psycho Papa Joe
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What's Guy Lapointe doing these days? Jacques Lapierriere?

My fear: They're grooming Brisebois for the job.

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11-27-2008, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
My fear: They're grooming Brisebois for the job.
Scotty Bowman: Sucky hockey Player.
Maurice Richard: One of the greatest hockey players.

Who was the better coach?

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11-27-2008, 07:37 AM
  #7
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Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Scotty Bowman: Sucky hockey Player.
Maurice Richard: One of the greatest hockey players.

Who was the better coach?
Point taken, but I think generally, former players who make good coaches were hard workers, regardless of their talent level. Coming into the NHL Breezy was a hell of a talent, and IMO he never lived up to said talent. He looked as good as Desjardins coming into the NHL, but I never saw Breezy as the hardest worker out there, and therefore I think there's less likelyhood of him becoming a good coach. For instance, I think a guy like Bouillon, who is a very hard worker, but had far less talent than Breezy, might make a better coaching candidate down the road. A players work ethic, once he becomes a coach, tends to rub off on the players he coaches.

Look at our coaching staff right now. Carbo, Muller and Jarvis were all very hard workers as NHL players.

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11-27-2008, 07:42 AM
  #8
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With all the d-men prospects coming soon, it would be a total nonsense to not have a d-men coach. I've been saying that for 2 years and most people in here keep saying it as well. It makes no sense to put all that emphasis on the draft if you'll fail at developing those guys after. It would be prefered to have a scout who would actually be responsible to visit our d-men in the teams they're playing for right now without being in the way of the coaching staff that our guys are playing for. Then in Hamilton and in Montreal, you need somebody who could help those guys as well.

If they don't want to use a full-time guy, so be it. But at least, have a part-time one who'll give his pointers from time to time. He's probably be not ready yet but Joel Bouchard loves to teach, has a passion for it, and could help. Another guy who could help without being a d-man but that has a great mind for hockey, is Dany Dubé. Honestly while all people keep wanting for him to be an analyst on TV instead of Brunet and so on....honestly who cares.....The guy should be in an organization, teaching the kids and the players how to play hockey. Enough talking about it, start teaching it again. Might not only be for d-men, but even if they would ask him to concentrate on those guys, so be it. But Montreal has to recognize what this guy can to in an organization and that while we would lose a good analyst, we would gain a better team.

Other candidates could be Gaston Gingras who's already close to the org. I don't know how a guy like Stéphane Quintal could conduct himself and how good he could be as a teacher but since he'll be close to the Habs with the fact that he's going to manage the new practice facility, he could be an option too. At the very least, could give pointers as well. You don't necessarily need to have been the greatest to teach somebody. Quintal must have known everything he had to do to be great, he was just probably not able to execute it. But then, I don't know how good a teacher he can be.

Anyway, we need to start respecting the position a little more, and if a goalie coach is needed, a d-men coach is seriously needed as well. For a position that we keep hearing about the fact that a d-man development is always later than other players, you need somebody to guide you in that development.

Honestly, Habs are IMO missing the boat on this one. But there's time to do something about it. But the sooner the better, the prospects are coming.....

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11-27-2008, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
Point taken, but I think generally, former players who make good coaches were hard workers, regardless of their talent level. Coming into the NHL Breezy was a hell of a talent, and IMO he never lived up to said talent. He looked as good as Desjardins coming into the NHL, but I never saw Breezy as the hardest worker out there, and therefore I think there's less likelyhood of him becoming a good coach. For instance, I think a guy like Bouillon, who is a very hard worker, but had far less talent than Breezy, might make a better coaching candidate down the road.
It's all about what sort of eye you have for the game. Some guys can just see the game and their own body can't adjust to it. I can see how you'd think the hard workers make the best coaches, as a lot of utility players do end up becoming coaches. However, I think that just comes with the territory that a hard working hockey player always wants to be involved with the game, and if he can't perform on the ice anymore, he wants to perform as close to it as possible.

I have no idea if Brisebois *wants* to be a coach, but if he did, I doubt that his teams defence would start playing like him.

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11-27-2008, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
It's all about what sort of eye you have for the game. Some guys can just see the game and their own body can't adjust to it. I can see how you'd think the hard workers make the best coaches, as a lot of utility players do end up becoming coaches. However, I think that just comes with the territory that a hard working hockey player always wants to be involved with the game, and if he can't perform on the ice anymore, he wants to perform as close to it as possible.

I have no idea if Brisebois *wants* to be a coach, but if he did, I doubt that his teams defence would start playing like him.
I've heard rumors that the Habs will keep him in the organization once he retires. I'm not crazy about the idea, but hey, Gainey does tend to surround himself with good people, and if he thinks Brisebois is good people, who am I to argue with it.

At any rate, if Breezy does embark upon a coaching career, I'd rather he get his first experience in the AHL. I'd rather have person with more coaching on their resume for a defensive coach.


Last edited by Psycho Papa Joe: 11-27-2008 at 09:46 AM.
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11-27-2008, 07:56 AM
  #11
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Gee... Markov, Komisarek, Georges seem to have done fine without a D coach in learning to be good defensemen.

Why is O'Byrne so special? Oh yeah because he is a stupid human being.

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11-27-2008, 08:00 AM
  #12
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Originally Posted by AH View Post
Gee... Markov, Komisarek, Georges seem to have done fine without a D coach in learning to be good defensemen.

Why is O'Byrne so special? Oh yeah because he is a stupid human being.
Back in the 80's and early 90's the Habs were exceptional at developing young d-men. A good part of that had to do with having one of the best d-man coaches ever, Jacques Lapierriere. One of the worst moves the Habs ever made was dispatching him in the Savard/Demers purge of 1995.

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11-27-2008, 08:02 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by AH View Post
Gee... Markov, Komisarek, Georges seem to have done fine without a D coach in learning to be good defensemen.

Why is O'Byrne so special? Oh yeah because he is a stupid human being.
Well I would choose to think that it's not because you have "exceptionnals" that you shouldn't do everything you can to "save" the ones that are not as exceptionnal. Who knows if Komisarek would not have been better sooner if he had a d-men coach?
And while I like Komi, I still don't think he's there yet....The game has changed and is faster and much tougher on the D's.

I'm just saying to do everthing you can to be as succesful as you can. You have tons of scouts on the road now. Be sure that this investment is not in vain.

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11-27-2008, 08:10 AM
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Heard Pat Burns on the subject this morning. He said the Devils have Larry Robinson on NHL D-men and Jaques Laperierre on the pre NHL ones.

And..."in defence of the Habs - it's not like they did not try to recruit Robinson and Laperrierre to their coaching team. But they are happy where they are." And then he chuckled.

He is a pretty reliable source, I'd assume.

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11-27-2008, 08:11 AM
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Heard Pat Burns on the subject this morning. He said the Devils have Larry Robinson on NHL D-men and Jaques Laperierre on the pre NHL ones.

And..."in defence of the Habs - it's not like they did not try to recruit Robinson and Laperrierre to their coaching team. But they are happy where they are." And then he chuckled.

He is a pretty reliable guy, I'd assume.
A journalist spoke to Robinson this week and Robinson, who seemed to be honest (from the journalist's word) said that he NEVER spoke to anybody from the Habs. And even if they would try to have him, he would say no 'cause he's happy where he's at.

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11-27-2008, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
With all the d-men prospects coming soon, it would be a total nonsense to not have a d-men coach. I've been saying that for 2 years and most people in here keep saying it as well. It makes no sense to put all that emphasis on the draft if you'll fail at developing those guys after. It would be prefered to have a scout who would actually be responsible to visit our d-men in the teams they're playing for right now without being in the way of the coaching staff that our guys are playing for. Then in Hamilton and in Montreal, you need somebody who could help those guys as well.

If they don't want to use a full-time guy, so be it. But at least, have a part-time one who'll give his pointers from time to time. He's probably be not ready yet but Joel Bouchard loves to teach, has a passion for it, and could help. Another guy who could help without being a d-man but that has a great mind for hockey, is Dany Dubé. Honestly while all people keep wanting for him to be an analyst on TV instead of Brunet and so on....honestly who cares.....The guy should be in an organization, teaching the kids and the players how to play hockey. Enough talking about it, start teaching it again. Might not only be for d-men, but even if they would ask him to concentrate on those guys, so be it. But Montreal has to recognize what this guy can to in an organization and that while we would lose a good analyst, we would gain a better team.

Other candidates could be Gaston Gingras who's already close to the org. I don't know how a guy like Stéphane Quintal could conduct himself and how good he could be as a teacher but since he'll be close to the Habs with the fact that he's going to manage the new practice facility, he could be an option too. At the very least, could give pointers as well. You don't necessarily need to have been the greatest to teach somebody. Quintal must have known everything he had to do to be great, he was just probably not able to execute it. But then, I don't know how good a teacher he can be.

Anyway, we need to start respecting the position a little more, and if a goalie coach is needed, a d-men coach is seriously needed as well. For a position that we keep hearing about the fact that a d-man development is always later than other players, you need somebody to guide you in that development.

Honestly, Habs are IMO missing the boat on this one. But there's time to do something about it. But the sooner the better, the prospects are coming.....
I also agree there should be a D coach but not Dany Dubé. Why would he be better than Doug Jarvis? Doug Jarvis wears many hats for the Habs, maybe too many. As you say, bring in someone exclusively for the D, especially help for their defensive play. But they need someone who has experience as a D and as a coach. This is not the point when you would want to bring in Joel Bouchard, who has no experience coaching at the big league level.

And Dany Dubé needs to replace Benoit Brunet now. I try to watch RDS but I keep switching to TSN because of Brunet. I can't believe I miss Pednault.

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11-27-2008, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by AH View Post
Gee... Markov, Komisarek, Georges seem to have done fine without a D coach in learning to be good defensemen.

Why is O'Byrne so special? Oh yeah because he is a stupid human being.
or he could be a fairly bright human being who makes a mistake on the ice now and then.

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11-27-2008, 10:30 AM
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They do have a defense coach, don't they ? Doug Jarvis. I don't know much about his coaching style, I've read that he stresses positioning, and like Carbo, they preach quick puck movement, just as an organizational trait.

I'm not sure how he can be faulterd for O'bryne's difficulties, but not praised for Gorges improvement, can't have one without the other right ? Did his arrival also not coincide with Komo's improvement ?


I do think that they need an organizational defense coach, sort of quality control position that teaches standards and styles that the team wants to practice.

I have no idea who is best suited, the way a guy talks in the media, or the way he played doesn't mean much, my money would be on someone we know, someone that the staff in place and org. has a comfort level with. You need a name if he's a roving instructor,monitoring guys in God knows what league, if you want the guy to command the right level of respect.

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11-27-2008, 10:45 AM
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They do have a defense coach, don't they ? Doug Jarvis. I don't know much about his coaching style, I've read that he stresses positioning, and like Carbo, they preach quick puck movement, just as an organizational trait.

I'm not sure how he can be faulterd for O'bryne's difficulties, but not praised for Gorges improvement, can't have one without the other right ? Did his arrival also not coincide with Komo's improvement ?


I do think that they need an organizational defense coach, sort of quality control position that teaches standards and styles that the team wants to practice.

I have no idea who is best suited, the way a guy talks in the media, or the way he played doesn't mean much, my money would be on someone we know, someone that the staff in place and org. has a comfort level with. You need a name if he's a roving instructor,monitoring guys in God knows what league, if you want the guy to command the right level of respect.
We need an ex-defensmen who could play the position well, it's clear that our system of positioning for our defensmen is pretty average, players like bouillon and O'Byrne imo would improve drastically with a defensive coach, someone who would be able motivate, and use our defensmens' best assets to the team's advantage. Especially O'Byrne and Komisarek who are holding back physically because they don't want to be out of place, that's where a D coach would really help

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11-27-2008, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by AH View Post
Gee... Markov, Komisarek, Georges seem to have done fine without a D coach in learning to be good defensemen.

Why is O'Byrne so special? Oh yeah because he is a stupid human being.

i think the point is to preparing all the upcoming defencemen, like Subban webber, Carle, etc. They need to be followed closely so they can intergrate the team rapidly. Maybe a D coach for hamilton might be good.

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11-27-2008, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
Back in the 80's and early 90's the Habs were exceptional at developing young d-men. A good part of that had to do with having one of the best d-man coaches ever, Jacques Lapierriere. One of the worst moves the Habs ever made was dispatching him in the Savard/Demers purge of 1995.
agree 100%.....

JLapierriere has always been underrated as a player and a coach.

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11-30-2008, 10:40 AM
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Looks like we got a coach for our defenseman after all, Komisarek!

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11-30-2008, 12:24 PM
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Joel Bouchard is our man!

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12-01-2008, 08:36 PM
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Nothing I'd like more than seeing Big Bird come home and join our coaching staff, ala Jacques Laperrière.

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