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Kovalev couldnt be THAT bad, could he?

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Old
11-27-2008, 05:16 PM
  #51
ToysInTheAttic
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Kovalev isn't playing bad at all.

The Habs were the surprise of the NHL last year. So now, when other teams play the Habs Kovalev is the core player that they study in the videos, as he was the quarterback of the team last year. So far Kovalev has been negated fairly well, but not too much as his point totals attest. In my thinking, the positive in the better coverage by other teams this year is, the rest of the team has been forced to step up their game.

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11-27-2008, 05:22 PM
  #52
dutchy29
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Kovalev serves his role well on this team, dancing in and gaining the zone on the PP,
scoring big goals and close to #1 point getter. His contract is worth the 70points he will
probably get this season and a bonus for us is his contract is up this year, if he only does average we can sign him again cheap next season.

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11-27-2008, 05:48 PM
  #53
Kriss E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrei Kostopolous View Post
no you can't relate that to almost every stat.

its not the same thing. Koivu turns it over a tonne as well.

and in the end if its the same thing, it doesn't matter cause Kovalev is stilling turning the puck over more than anyone and not producing enough offensively while being hit and miss defensively depending on the night. Its all relative then and at the end thats Kovalev we have right now and it equals a below average year. and that point, what are you really defending.

and no, this isn't to put the blame only on Kovalev as Pleks, Akost, Komisarek have all had below average starts but because we are talking Kovalev.
Yes It is all the same.
You can't say that one stat is not representative for one player, but the same stat is for another one.

Kovalev turns the puck often, yea okay, and?..

He's been turning the puck over since he started playing.
He was 4th last year in turnovers, same story.

The guy is playing EXACTLY the same way he was last season. The ONLY difference is our lack of PP scoring that came in big part thanks to him last season.

But he's not having a below average season.

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11-27-2008, 06:01 PM
  #54
Etienne
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Apparently Kovalev is the anti-Ryder.

According to Bruins fans, Ryder does everything right except scoring (who would have thought a player shooting on the goalies cant score?)

According to Habs fans, Kovalev does everything wrong except scoring

Both are about 4M/season as well (Kovy's 4.5)

Ain't life full of mysteries.

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Old
11-27-2008, 06:17 PM
  #55
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from what i can see he still has the heart and gets excited he just is not getting the bounces. Neither is kosty and plec hopefully things get a little better but the effort is there, thats whats important

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11-27-2008, 06:44 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Yes It is all the same.
You can't say that one stat is not representative for one player, but the same stat is for another one.

Kovalev turns the puck often, yea okay, and?..

He's been turning the puck over since he started playing.
He was 4th last year in turnovers, same story.

The guy is playing EXACTLY the same way he was last season. The ONLY difference is our lack of PP scoring that came in big part thanks to him last season.

But he's not having a below average season.
+/- and save percentage are both stats that are commonly misused and can't be used in relation to all other players.

and then if you think every stat tracker is the same in every building, game, city and then is consistent, then i think we are in complete disagreement.

until we come to this agreement there is no discussion.

however at the end of the day, i'd rather watch the game and see the difference in some players play.

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Old
11-27-2008, 07:47 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by LastRide View Post
Its his tunovers that is killing us. The dude turns the puck over ten times a game. His lazy passes and poor work ethic.
And don't think for a second that his teamates don't notice this... its probably contributing HUGELY to the lackluster play of the team on most nights

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Old
11-27-2008, 07:49 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by citylife View Post
And don't think for a second that his teamates don't notice this... its probably contributing HUGELY to the lackluster play of the team on most nights
Yup. What's the point of forechecking when A, you won't get the puck and B, it'll be turned over and you gotta skate hard back the other way immediately.

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Old
11-28-2008, 08:37 AM
  #59
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If Kovalev really isn't playing worse than last season, how come he has scored zero goals in the last 11 games? Did he really go 11 games without scoring at any point last season?

Obviously he's not a complete liability on the ice as some of his detractors claim, but it's ridiculous to say he's doing as well as he was last season.

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Old
11-28-2008, 08:46 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by mario66lemieux View Post
21 5 11 16

Tied for 4th in goals on the team
Tied for 2nd in assists (with Koivu) on the team
Tied for 3rd in points (with Markov) on the team

Only 2 pts off of leader tanguay...

Are the habs players really that bad or is Kovalev not as bad as people are making him out to be?
Kovalev is the man!!! He is probably our best skilled player, but yet if he doesn't get 5 points a night....he's playing awful!!! Give me a Break!!!!! The guy might have his off nights, but he still puts points on the board.

I think people in here need to give him a break and stop expecting him to score 200 points a season!! He's 35 years old, his best years are behind him.....we have to take what we get from him. He still produces better than a lot of players in the league.

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11-28-2008, 09:26 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
Kovalev is the man!!! He is probably our best skilled player, but yet if he doesn't get one goal in more than 10 games....he's playing awful!!! Give me a Break!!!!! The guy might have his off nights, but he still puts points on the board.

I think people in here need to give him a break and stop expecting him to score 200 points a season!! He's 35 years old, his best years are behind him.....we have to take what we get from him. He still produces better than a lot of players in the league.
Fixed!

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Old
11-30-2008, 04:38 PM
  #62
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has anyone heard about a possible injury to Kovalev? he seams to be the warrior type actually, to play hurt so, I dunno...

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Old
11-30-2008, 05:18 PM
  #63
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Koivu isn't the same player as in his peak. However the guy adjusted to the situation by changing his game to maintain a high level of performance. For example, he spends less time a game on the ice than last season. It lets him keep his stamina while not sacrificing his intensity.

Kovalev is almost 36. IMO, he's a tad bit slower than last season. However the guy plays his longest shifts ever with the Habs (56 seconds to Koivu's 49). He also plays this season more time per game than he's ever played with the Habs (20:16 min avg per game). If the Habs want more out of Kovalev, they'll need to be cognizant of his limits.

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11-30-2008, 08:18 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Koivu isn't the same player as in his peak. However the guy adjusted to the situation by changing his game to maintain a high level of performance. For example, he spends less time a game on the ice than last season. It lets him keep his stamina while not sacrificing his intensity.

Kovalev is almost 36. IMO, he's a tad bit slower than last season. However the guy plays his longest shifts ever with the Habs (56 seconds to Koivu's 49). He also plays this season more time per game than he's ever played with the Habs (20:16 min avg per game). If the Habs want more out of Kovalev, they'll need to be cognizant of his limits.

Excellent point. Not sure if he's being asked to do too much, but maybe he could be taken off the PK
and could focus on 5 on 5 and PP. He is very good on the PK, but I do believe he's playing too much and would be more effective with slightly less ice time.

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11-30-2008, 08:26 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Nashy View Post
Excellent point. Not sure if he's being asked to do too much, but maybe he could be taken off the PK
and could focus on 5 on 5 and PP. He is very good on the PK, but I do believe he's playing too much and would be more effective with slightly less ice time.
that's what i was gonna say as well...to the T. well put sir.

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Old
11-30-2008, 09:08 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Nashy View Post
Excellent point. Not sure if he's being asked to do too much, but maybe he could be taken off the PK
and could focus on 5 on 5 and PP. He is very good on the PK, but I do believe he's playing too much and would be more effective with slightly less ice time.
You know what that's not a bad idea at all. Give him less PK time so he can focus on other aspects of the game, then give it back to him. I like it.

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Old
11-30-2008, 11:38 PM
  #67
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Last year after 21 games he had 10 goals and 8 assists for 18 points with a -1 rating.

This year he has 5 goals 11 assists and 16 points with an even rating.


That's an excellent point..look, the thing people forget about Kovalev is that if he were the player everyone dreams he might be, given his talent -- a hundred point, inventive, super-skating superstar-- then....he wouldn't be Alex Kovalev. He'd be a Russian Sydney Crosby; he'd be an older Ovechkin. And -- this is the crucial point -- if he were, the Habs wouldn't have obtained him for free (or for josef b. which is the same thing.) He's the same player he has always been, the player we knew he was when we got him: a mega-talented, temperamental, up and down , streaky player with enormous talent who turns the puck over too much and always has and will take your breath away one day and break your heart the next. That's who he is. That's who he's always been. He's thirty-five; he's not going to change now. He had a super-year, for him, last year; he's just a bit off the pace this year. This is who he is; appreciate him, grasp his weaknesses, and don't ask him to become some other player.

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Old
12-01-2008, 12:29 AM
  #68
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to date...

last year: 19 points, 23 games
this year: 16 pionts, 23 games

I have seen 7 or 8 Habs games this season all the way and in almost all of those Kovalev was ripped off a point by some ridiculous save or bad luck. so, he could be right on track with last season.

now, I don't think there is any way he puts up another 84 points and leads the league in powerplay points again. I don't think the league has figured him out now that is absurd. He is a veteran and last season he put up more points in the 2nd half even when the Habs were exposed as a powerplay machine. yet still even after the cat was out of the bag, he continued to produce. I think as the games become bigger and bigger as the season progresses his play will elevate. but Mark Streit missing from the powerplay is going to hurt not only Kovalev's pp production but every other Hab too. there just isn't another player to replace him on your roster. and he is doing the job on the worst team in the East so it was no fluke. anyway, long story short. 70 pionts, 30 from the powerplay. just as long as he brings the leadership he will still be one of the Habs most important players.

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Old
12-01-2008, 05:30 AM
  #69
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Kovalev comming off one of his best seasons is not going to match the same points obviously. between 65-75 points is a very fair probable point range for Kovalev, ppl are just spazzing cuz they expect a superstar at every game, and when Kovalev doesn't deke 3 players do a sick pass and score well it just isn't good enough. Get Kovalchuk like we've been saying or stop whining, Kovalev is a great player on his way to retirement.

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12-01-2008, 08:18 PM
  #70
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They should have traded his sorry butt last year when his value was at its peak! He's a moody, lazy, selfish player who doesn't deserve wearing the CH. Here's hoping that Jacques Martin takes the bait and gets him in a trade for Bouwmeester in hope that the Panthers can still salvage a playoffs' run! The sooner he's gone, the better the team will be.

To think that Kyle Wellwood and Grabovski have more goals than him...

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Old
12-01-2008, 10:13 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by fiascov View Post
I always think he's having an okay game until when I come here after the game and see everyone bashing him!
If you based your opinion on what people in here say after the games, you'd have no clue how players are performing.

I got blasted at the beginning of the year for saying Ryan O'Byrne was playing poorly and was repeatedly told that he "had a good game."

People that are now saying Kovalev gives the puck way too much, I have to ask - did you just start watching him play? He's *always* given the puck away a lot, it's the obvious side-effect of playing the style he plays. When you are a possession player and carry the puck a lot, you're gonna be forced to make high-risk plays. Funny, when the team was winning and Kovalev was piling up points last year all of the astute hockey observers had no issue with this aspect of his game. Suddenly, this year, it's a problem.

The good news is, Guy Carbonneau and Bob Gainey aren't fools and they actually watch the games instead of looking at the hilites, scanning the boxscores then spouting off ill-informed opinions on the internet.

But then again, if you listen to "experts" here Guy Carbonneau and Gainey should be fired too, so....

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12-01-2008, 10:17 PM
  #72
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If Kovalev really isn't playing worse than last season, how come he has scored zero goals in the last 11 games? Did he really go 11 games without scoring at any point last season?

Obviously he's not a complete liability on the ice as some of his detractors claim, but it's ridiculous to say he's doing as well as he was last season.
The reason he's having trouble scoring is his linemates have not been productive so far and teams have keyed on him heavily, at times with 2 players and also on the PP.

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12-01-2008, 10:20 PM
  #73
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Kovalev comming off one of his best seasons is not going to match the same points obviously. between 65-75 points is a very fair probable point range for Kovalev, ppl are just spazzing cuz they expect a superstar at every game, and when Kovalev doesn't deke 3 players do a sick pass and score well it just isn't good enough. Get Kovalchuk like we've been saying or stop whining, Kovalev is a great player on his way to retirement.
actually most people don't expect that out of him and most aren't necessarily concerned with the production although the last stretch has been disappointing. The trouble that I, and i think many have with his play is it appears uninspired, he is giving up on plays and back checking and tonnes of turnovers. Combine that with less than adequate production and you get people on his back. Pretty understandable really.

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12-01-2008, 10:27 PM
  #74
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actually most people don't expect that out of him and most aren't necessarily concerned with the production although the last stretch has been disappointing. The trouble that I, and i think many have with his play is it appears uninspired, he is giving up on plays and back checking and tonnes of turnovers. Combine that with less than adequate production and you get people on his back. Pretty understandable really.
Kovalev had a ton of turnovers last year also. That will happen if you have the puck more than anybody else and are willing to be creative. I don't see the giving up on plays or lack of back checking. It that was the case he would not even be on PK.

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