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Just wondering, at what point is Carbo's job in danger?

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Old
11-29-2008, 12:55 AM
  #51
Roulin
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The really scary thing is not the slump, it's the way Carbo is reacting to it. Showing his exasperation at press conferences, threatening to play his 4th line on the PP, then actually doing it a couple of games later. Benching players and promoting others to send a message. That stuff reeks of desperation, and wears off fast. If it doesn't work, the next step is a locker room that tunes out the coach.

It seems obvious to me that Gainey has assembled a roster that can do special things. Especially in this year's Eastern Conference. Yes, the Habs could use another defenceman, but almost every other team in the league has similar or bigger holes in their rosters. We're past the quarter season mark, and the goals against are catching up to the goals for. A large part of the blame has to lie with the coach, for not making the best use of the weapons at his disposal (mostly just getting the right players on the ice at the right time) and not getting the best results out of too many players on his team.

We all know that Carbo is Gainey's man, but as GM, at some point BG has to make a cold, objective decision. If the talent assembled would win more games with an experienced coach, BG has to make the move. I don't think we're at the day of reckoning yet, but it's coming soon if Carbo doesn't turn this thing around.

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11-29-2008, 01:00 AM
  #52
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I think if this team looks like it might not make the playoffs it will be the end of Carbo. He probably has another 2 months and then either they go with him all the way or replace him. I think alot is at stake this season and missing the playoffs is not an acceptable outcome.

Right now the team is playing just well enough that they are winning the odd game and not having massive losing streaks. If we were to lose say 5 or 6 games in a row Carbo might be on shaky ground.

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11-29-2008, 01:28 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by TheCanasianfrasian View Post
i will be VERY disapointed in the CH organization if Carbo and/or Gainey get fired. In the past years we have fired tons of coaches when the problem was the players. The last 3 coaches we fired are each 1st in their respective divisions.

The problem is the players! not carbo.

IMO
Very astute observation. People forget he led us this spring to our best place in the standings in god knows how long. He knows what he's doing. I too really wish i was a fly on the wall to see how he's managing the players and i'm not really happy when he says he doesn't know why they are working, but in reality...he's right. They just aren't converting what he is preaching. You can't blame him for OB's play (which i have now just...accepted, as being where he is in his development). He can't force the puck to bounce in certain ways or for players to not have horrible brain cramps. He's doing his job and quite frankly, for a team like this, who know what they have to do, it's up to them. I think he was a great captain, a great hab and although this doesn't equal necessarily a good coach (see M.Trembley), I think Carbo knows the game. Not that this is proof or anything, but whenever he's pissed or disappointed, he has that cracked out face, with the beady eyes. Just takes a sip of water and glares into the distance, with that eerie rocket look. You know how badly he wants to win and how he's definitely not a push over coach. He did great for us last year, so give him some time and at the end of the day judge him (well, end of the season). I prefer him any day to that media bunny Ron Wilson. And for that matter Gainey to the equally loud mouthed burke (as if it's even debatable).

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11-29-2008, 01:43 AM
  #54
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With a team that has so many free agents to be, putting the GM behind the bench wouldnt be a bad thing IMO.

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11-29-2008, 01:53 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
With eight minutes left in a three goal game you can still win, you DO NOT send your fourth line out on the powerplay. That was a joke.

I know what he was trying to do, but all I (and the players I bet) heard was "we surrender."
Picture yourself as a Kovalev or Koivu and hearing "22, 40, 25" shouted as the line change to take place during an offensive zone faceoff on a powerplay... and imagine what you are feeling as a Koivu or Kovalev is kissing the bench...Kovalev is playing lackadaisical and Koivu is playing great, yet both of them face the wrath on that 3rd period PP from what i saw. (Which was the whole game......minus an immense amount of attention)

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11-29-2008, 02:18 AM
  #56
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Bégin said after the game that he doesnt understand why the guys arent ready for the games, he said the players are all well prepared before every games, the are watching tapes from the other teams and all but when they start the game, players arent playing the way they are supposed to..

So I guess we can stop blaming Carbo now.. Some players sucks and doesnt work hard enough, that is the ****in prob..

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11-29-2008, 04:49 AM
  #57
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This team clearly needs a shakeup. I hope it's just a slump, but I see no effort at all and honestly if you take away shootouts we're 12-10.

I'm not trying to be an overreacting fan with "FIRE CARBO NOW!" rants, but I'm just wondering when you guys think he'll actually be in danger.

Would Bob really fire our coach in the 100th season? Imagine the media..they'd have a field day with that imo.

How much longer does this have to go on before you think something gets done?

Carbs can be a good coach but the man makes some stupid, stupid ****in decisions.

Let's just say he gets fired, do you think Muller can take over?

When gainey picks his guy, he's very loyal (no pun intended). He selected Hithcock in Dallas and rode him all the way. I wouldnt be surprised if he sticks with Carbo for a long time.

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11-29-2008, 05:40 AM
  #58
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Carbo is doing a great job. It's not his fault the guys couldn't finish last night.

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11-29-2008, 05:41 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by NewHabsArea View Post
Bégin said after the game that he doesnt understand why the guys arent ready for the games, he said the players are all well prepared before every games, the are watching tapes from the other teams and all but when they start the game, players arent playing the way they are supposed to..

So I guess we can stop blaming Carbo now.. Some players sucks and doesnt work hard enough, that is the ****in prob..
While it may not be Carbonneau's fault they arent playing to their potential, it's his responsbility to make them play harder and better...

Carbo is in the same situation as anyone who has a job with responsabilities. I may not be his fault he'S having problem X or Y, but it's his responsability, his job, to fix thoses problems... it may not be his fault if player X or Y isnt performing, but it's his job to make them perform... if one or two of them arent performing, they'll be traded/waived/whatever... if most of them arent performing, he - being the person in charge - will have questions to awnser... he was hired to make the players (thus the team) perform afterall...

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11-29-2008, 08:54 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey View Post
Picture yourself as a Kovalev or Koivu and hearing "22, 40, 25" shouted as the line change to take place during an offensive zone faceoff on a powerplay... and imagine what you are feeling as a Koivu or Kovalev is kissing the bench...Kovalev is playing lackadaisical and Koivu is playing great, yet both of them face the wrath on that 3rd period PP from what i saw. (Which was the whole game......minus an immense amount of attention)
Well, that isn't what happened.

Koivu's line went out first. Then were replaced by Begin and Co. after they were done.

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11-29-2008, 09:10 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
The really scary thing is not the slump, it's the way Carbo is reacting to it. Showing his exasperation at press conferences, threatening to play his 4th line on the PP, then actually doing it a couple of games later. Benching players and promoting others to send a message. That stuff reeks of desperation, and wears off fast. If it doesn't work, the next step is a locker room that tunes out the coach.

It seems obvious to me that Gainey has assembled a roster that can do special things. Especially in this year's Eastern Conference. Yes, the Habs could use another defenceman, but almost every other team in the league has similar or bigger holes in their rosters. We're past the quarter season mark, and the goals against are catching up to the goals for. A large part of the blame has to lie with the coach, for not making the best use of the weapons at his disposal (mostly just getting the right players on the ice at the right time) and not getting the best results out of too many players on his team.

We all know that Carbo is Gainey's man, but as GM, at some point BG has to make a cold, objective decision. If the talent assembled would win more games with an experienced coach, BG has to make the move. I don't think we're at the day of reckoning yet, but it's coming soon if Carbo doesn't turn this thing around.
Frankly I don't think like you said that Gainey has assembled a team that can do special things. Show me a group in the NHL filled with small softy skaters supposed to destroy everything in their path. It's just not possible in today's NHL. What was accomplished last year was nothing short of a miracle and it's Carbo that guided them. As for as I know he didn't say to them to play differently this year.

Last year's playoffs was a great example to figure out what the Habs had. And guess what Bob did not solve the problem in bringing size and grit to the first two lines. Instead he did worse by bringing in two soft guys that made the roster spreading their style to three lines of the same type of players. That's why this year Carbo has no choice but to put guys like Kostopoulos on the third or second line to add hard working guys, guys that can play physical to bring about intensity and able to match-up with the other teams' bigger guys.

Carbo is stuck because the top guys can't match-up on a physical level with other teams. And when he put grinders with them, the skilled guys brood and they don't seem to want to play with them.

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11-29-2008, 09:29 AM
  #62
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We overachived last season its pretty obvious. Weither or not fans want to see or belive that is up to them so expectations are way too high, combined with the 100 centennial season its just a stupid mix for the fans.

This season we are still playing some decent hockey too and there is 3/4 of a season left, we are playing better suited for the playoffs in close games that are tight, instead of blowing teams out on the pp alone, we all saw how that worked out in crunch time against Boston and Philly, we lost one series and could have gotten ousted in the 1st round in the other.

Firing the coach wont do jack **** he is doing the best he can with the roster that is avalible, maybe he doesn't make every correct choice every night but he makes the majority of them.

The same goes for a GM, Gainey has been here for a few years he knows the personel players and coaching staff, he has some huge decisions this offseason no one knows what this team needs in UFAs more then him so keeping him is a must too. The trick will be luring the good ones to Montreal, this team I think personally is finnaly rounding the UFA "taboo" corner and we could see some decent ones comming this way in the future too.

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11-29-2008, 09:31 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Frankly I don't think like you said that Gainey has assembled a team that can do special things. Show me a group in the NHL filled with small softy skaters supposed to destroy everything in their path. It's just not possible in today's NHL. What was accomplished last year was nothing short of a miracle and it's Carbo that guided them. As for as I know he didn't say to them to play differently this year.

Last year's playoffs was a great example to figure out what the Habs had. And guess what Bob did not solve the problem in bringing size and grit to the first two lines. Instead he did worse by bringing in two soft guys that made the roster spreading their style to three lines of the same type of players. That's why this year Carbo has no choice but to put guys like Kostopoulos on the third or second line to add hard working guys, guys that can play physical to bring about intensity and able to match-up with the other teams' bigger guys.

Carbo is stuck because the top guys can't match-up on a physical level with other teams. And when he put grinders with them, the skilled guys brood and they don't seem to want to play with them.
I'm sorry. I refuse to believe this team is as soft as everyone says they are. We have had games where, when everyone was working, we dominate very physical teams with speed and toughness. Its just a matter of maintaining that level of play.

While I agree the players are responsible for the fact that the team isn't living up to expectations, at one point it IS the responsibility of the coach to motivate his players and I really do not see much of that from Carbo. All I see is terrible line matching, not taking timeouts when he should, Akost on the wrong side and lackluster attempts to "send a message".

That said, I would absolutely LOVE to see Gainey behind the bench

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11-29-2008, 10:28 AM
  #64
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Give it up guys. Carbs is doing just fine behind the bench. Wen push comes to shove, he will shove.
This team is victimized on all angles by media and fans. The team is playing ok and last night we played decent, not perfect but ok. Washington was playing great and made us look silly. They did stop dumping the puck being our d and in result, guys ext anted their present on the ice. Look at that goal right after we had killed a 5 on 3. Kovy was on for like a minute and a half and could not clear the puck. Result, Washington scored and everyone think Kovy was to fault. It's one lost and it always hurt to be blank.

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11-29-2008, 11:06 AM
  #65
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Give it up guys. Carbs is doing just fine behind the bench. Wen push comes to shove, he will shove.
This team is victimized on all angles by media and fans. The team is playing ok and last night we played decent, not perfect but ok. Washington was playing great and made us look silly. They did stop dumping the puck being our d and in result, guys ext anted their present on the ice. Look at that goal right after we had killed a 5 on 3. Kovy was on for like a minute and a half and could not clear the puck. Result, Washington scored and everyone think Kovy was to fault. It's one lost and it always hurt to be blank.
I don't think you saw the Washinton lineup last night.

There is zero excuse for not salvaging at least a point last night.

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11-29-2008, 11:10 AM
  #66
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11-29-2008, 11:32 AM
  #67
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4 rookie coaches....

Edit: Although Julien was a very competent coach, a little bit too hard on the kids, but very good overall.
It is interesting with Julien. His only real flaw was his refusal to play the young players here. Looking back, it's strange, because his background was major junior and the AHL. And since leaving Montreal, he did a good job with Zajac and Parise and Oduya in NJ, and Kessel and Lucic and Krejci etc in Boston. Go figure.

As for Carbonneau, I still like him, as I have since he started. But I still question the make-up of this team. The skilled players as a group don't compete consistently. There are just too many players who play soft and perimeter too much of the time, but get away with it when the team has the number one PP that scores 25% of the time. Maybe that is a coaching problem, but even if it is, I'm not sure what solution there is.

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11-29-2008, 11:43 AM
  #68
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Line combinations are a coach's job and imo Carbo has dropped the ball there. He's been misusing his players, especially on the special teams. He needs to start identifying roles because last years system won't work with this years unless they go and get another offensive defenseman.

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11-29-2008, 12:45 PM
  #69
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It is interesting with Julien. His only real flaw was his refusal to play the young players here. Looking back, it's strange, because his background was major junior and the AHL. And since leaving Montreal, he did a good job with Zajac and Parise and Oduya in NJ, and Kessel and Lucic and Krejci etc in Boston. Go figure.

As for Carbonneau, I still like him, as I have since he started. But I still question the make-up of this team. The skilled players as a group don't compete consistently. There are just too many players who play soft and perimeter too much of the time, but get away with it when the team has the number one PP that scores 25% of the time. Maybe that is a coaching problem, but even if it is, I'm not sure what solution there is.

Why do you still like him? What has he done well? This is his third season. The Habs have played very few good games in October and November. Isn't the mark of a good coach the ability to make the most of what he has? I'm sure there are NHL coaches who would gladly exchange rosters with him man for man. If you don't like the makeup, then you must have negative feelings about what Gainey has accomplished.

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11-29-2008, 01:20 PM
  #70
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Its funny that some members here are blaming ALL the players. We know the potential of this team, we have a good team, with a good mix of veteran and rookie, skill and grinders.

It is normal that the team doesnt play like they are capable of?

For me, a good coach is a coach that is capable of adapt his team in hard situation, that is able to squeeze the best out of each of his player and Carbo fails in that.

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11-29-2008, 02:17 PM
  #71
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Its funny that some members here are blaming ALL the players. We know the potential of this team, we have a good team, with a good mix of veteran and rookie, skill and grinders.

It is normal that the team doesnt play like they are capable of?

For me, a good coach is a coach that is capable of adapt his team in hard situation, that is able to squeeze the best out of each of his player and Carbo fails in that.
It comes down to basic management. He doesn't understand the concept, and quite frankly, I don't think he has the potential to.

It would be great if he eventually learns how to manage players, but this isn't the team for him to do his learning with. If he wants to learn how to be a coach... start from the ground up. Learn how to manage AHL players or even Jr. players before trying to deal with NHL players.

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11-29-2008, 02:40 PM
  #72
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I was real disappointed when the Blackhawks fired Savard, but I guess it was for the best.

I was young, but I also couldn't understand why Montreal fired Pat Burns. That was for the best as well.

Seeing Carbo go would suck, and I'd much prefer if anything happened, he would just get demoted to assistant coach. However, if the team is tuning him out, which could be the case, that's the only resort you have.

I think the team is just not clicking yet and needs to find its game. Once it finds it for good, we'll be unstoppable.

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11-29-2008, 02:58 PM
  #73
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I hope this thread is not because last night Carbo put some HARD-WORKING guys with Kovalev, Plekanec, Kostitsyn to show them to skate HARD on every shifts if you want to win games.

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11-29-2008, 03:05 PM
  #74
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I hope this thread is not because last night Carbo put some HARD-WORKING guys with Kovalev, Plekanec, Kostitsyn to show them to skate HARD on every shifts if you want to win games.
No, it's because he put 4th liners who can't score when we we're trailing...

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11-29-2008, 03:08 PM
  #75
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You'll have to fire Bob in order to fire Carbo, so forget about it. We had 3 very good coaches before Carbo, who are now coaching very good teams in the NHL. ( Canucks, Penguins, Bruins )

If it's one thing I think Bob won't do like his predecessors is give in to the big baby complains and swap coach once more to have him coach another very good team somewhere else. He'll get ride of whoever is a poison in this locker room, for another washed-up 4th Dman before that.

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