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Next season: Satan, Sykora, Fedotenko, Gill, Boucher

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Old
11-30-2008, 08:45 PM
  #1
TravisUlrich
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Next season: Satan, Sykora, Fedotenko, Gill, Boucher

Next season we're going to have a possible $12.825M off the books between 5 players:
  • Satan (3.5)
  • Sykora (2.5)
  • Fedotenko (2.25)
  • Gill (2.075)
  • Boucher (2.5)

The season after that we have
  • Eaton (2.0).

Which of these players should we re-sign (for more or for less), or drop?

IMO, overall, we could be spending our money more wisely. Do other teams typically spend $2M on a possible scratch?

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11-30-2008, 08:51 PM
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It's a long time from now, these guys may completely change peoples opinions of them between now and then. Regardless I would be more than happy to keep paying Sykora something similar to what he makes. He isn't going to light the world on fire but he is a skilled winger who seems happy to be here, Geno has had success with him and if you don't have unrealistic expectations of him then Sykora is a good compliment to the team. At his price we could have somebody else with less production, less chemistry and less desire to be on the team so if he wants to stick around then by all means.

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11-30-2008, 08:53 PM
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At similar price: Sykora and maybe Gill. Maybe even Satan, depending how he does the rest of this season.

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11-30-2008, 09:02 PM
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Sykora drives me insane but I can see him signing on for another year at around the same price. I can't see there being all that much of a market for him at this point.

I think it will be between Gill and Scuderi pending we keep all 5 of Gonchar, Whitney, Letang, Orpik and Goligoski.

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11-30-2008, 09:31 PM
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the wing situation will be very interesting to watch. obviously it's very early to say, but i would think sykora wold be much more likely to stick around than satan. though i could see the pens letting both walk after getting a $5-7mil winger through trade or free agency.

in that case, though, you're really counting on some in-house guys to step up. kennedy, perhaps, or eventually caputi.

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11-30-2008, 09:32 PM
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I dont think we can/will re-sign Gill/Scuderi/Satan/Boucher/Fedetenko. So im guessing Sykora is the only one we bring back.

Gonchar/Whitney/Letang/Goligoski/Eaton is a good defense...dont think we will throw out hte money Scuds and Gill will want.

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11-30-2008, 09:39 PM
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Of those I'd like to see Gill and Sykora back, and like Ziggy said, at similar prices. Sykora may not be the greatest wing, but for what he's paid youre going to be hard pressed to find someone with comparable production at that price on the open market. Gill has done surprisingly well for us, and I'd like to see him stay.

I dont think there i much chance of Boucher staying beyond this season (and Shero may be a bit gun shy signing another 35 year old dman after Sydor), and I honestly wouldnt be surprised if they dealt Eaton after this year to free cap space.

Fedotenko I cant imagine staying at all, and Satan maybe, depending on what he wants. We're relying a bit too much on free agency for wingers for my liking at the moment.

And as for $2mm on a possible scracth, it's better than spending $4mm on a possible scratch for four more years in Blake, so things could be worse.

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11-30-2008, 09:40 PM
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I would be happy with none of those guys being resigned. I would actually rather see Shero move Gonchar, he's the eldest of the defensemen and he is on his last 2 years of his contract. I would rather see a top 4 of Orpik, Whitney, Letang, Goligoski and then re-sign Gill and find a gritty and physical 6th defenseman. Let Scuderi walk, trade Eaton for a late pick or whatever, just trade him. Richmond & Lovejoy could be the 7th and 8th defensemen for reserves in the AHL.

Why Gonchar? Age mostly, why trade the young defensemen if there is a market for a guy like Gonchar? I like Gonchar but if Shero intends to re-sign Staal then he might want to move one of the defensemen. I wouldn't be choked to see one of Whitney or Gonchar gone for a winger.

Just thinking out loud.

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11-30-2008, 09:43 PM
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Sykora and Gill

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11-30-2008, 09:49 PM
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Sykora for similar money and whichever of Gill or Scuderi comes cheapest.

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11-30-2008, 09:51 PM
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About 5 million of that goes to Malkin's raise next year.

Staal's cap hit is now 2.2 and his will go up, to about 3.5 million?

Talbot needs resigned too and will get a raise. He currently is at a cap hit of .675 and i could see him getting around 1.2

So...5 (malkin) + 1.5 (staal) + 0.6 in raises = 7.1 million

Keep Sykora for about the same price (2.5 million) = 9.6 million

We are now about 3 million away from that 12.5 or whatever that was opened up.

They won't resign Satan, Fedo, Boucher.

They can pick Gill or Scuderi. Hopefully Scuderi at 1.5 or so

Now we have about 1.5 of open cap space to sign a free agen winger, which will net us next to nothing. So I see a trade coming if we hope to get Sid a good winger under the cap.

PLUS Gogo needs resigned and Letang needs a raise the year after.

Next season is the tight year with Gonchar in his last year of his deal. I think he or Whitney will be gone after that year to make room for a wing for Sid.

The End.

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11-30-2008, 09:56 PM
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Don't forget the cap is likely going down next year.

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Old
11-30-2008, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vcx View Post
I would be happy with none of those guys being resigned. I would actually rather see Shero move Gonchar, he's the eldest of the defensemen and he is on his last 2 years of his contract. I would rather see a top 4 of Orpik, Whitney, Letang, Goligoski and then re-sign Gill and find a gritty and physical 6th defenseman. Let Scuderi walk, trade Eaton for a late pick or whatever, just trade him. Richmond & Lovejoy could be the 7th and 8th defensemen for reserves in the AHL.

Why Gonchar? Age mostly, why trade the young defensemen if there is a market for a guy like Gonchar? I like Gonchar but if Shero intends to re-sign Staal then he might want to move one of the defensemen. I wouldn't be choked to see one of Whitney or Gonchar gone for a winger.

Just thinking out loud.
Hey.. what do you know? A realistic thread about off-season moves. Great Job TU!

I will agree w/ VCX... but alter what happens just a little. Sykora, Fedo, Satan, Gill, & Boucher can ALL be replaced easily. To be honest, I'm happy Fedo & Satan are only 1 year deals. They don't play hard & really aren't quality scorers anymore either. At one time... these 3 would be nice to have but not anymore. The game is changing and there is no need for it.

- I'd get rid of Gill & resign Scuds. It's more affordable & Scuds plays better defense. I'd also look into trading Eaton. Unfortunately he just hasn't come back from those injuries. He's half the player he was.

- I'd get rid of Whitney & keep Gonchar. I don't care what his age is... Gonch can flat out play. We also have Richmond & Lovejoy on WBS for young depth.

My defense would look like this:

Gonch/Orpik
Letang/Gogo
Scuds/_____ *Lovejoy/Richmond/solid young UFA or Draft pick/Affordable Vet*

Just my opinion...

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11-30-2008, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WVPens View Post
Sykora drives me insane but I can see him signing on for another year at around the same price. I can't see there being all that much of a market for him at this point.

I think it will be between Gill and Scuderi pending we keep all 5 of Gonchar, Whitney, Letang, Orpik and Goligoski.
Yea the Sykora thing is going to be that one discussion that's going to pop up 100000000 times before June.


I can't imagine keeping Gonch, Whitney, Letang, AND Gogo. One of those 4 has to go for multiple reasons.

- They are all offensive minded d-men (which other teams NEED in this new game)
- To keep all of them AND our center depth would be unrealistic.
- We could use some physical hard working d-man for the playoffs
- W/ Cap issues & signing our centers long term... we need to give those centers some decent wingers. We also have to pay our hard working grinders because they have HUGE worth to this team (Talbot, Kennedy, Ziggy)

I think one of the lefties WILL go before the trade deadline and to me... I'd get rid of Whitney. Letang & Gogo could be our future and Gonchar is a flat out leader to this team. I'm not picking on Whitney... but out of the 4... He'd be the odd man out AND he has some serious market value w/ his contract & skill. We have to balance the team out over the long run and I think having 3 solid offensive minded d-men w/ 3 hard working no-namers is a good thing. It also might free up some space to get some scoring wingers.

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11-30-2008, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Yea the Sykora thing is going to be that one discussion that's going to pop up 100000000 times before June.


I can't imagine keeping Gonch, Whitney, Letang, AND Gogo. One of those 4 has to go for multiple reasons.

- They are all offensive minded d-men (which other teams NEED in this new game)
- To keep all of them AND our center depth would be unrealistic.
- We could use some physical hard working d-man for the playoffs
- W/ Cap issues & signing our centers long term... we need to give those centers some decent wingers. We also have to pay our hard working grinders because they have HUGE worth to this team (Talbot, Kennedy, Ziggy)

I think one of the lefties WILL go before the trade deadline and to me... I'd get rid of Whitney. Letang & Gogo could be our future and Gonchar is a flat out leader to this team. I'm not picking on Whitney... but out of the 4... He'd be the odd man out AND he has some serious market value w/ his contract & skill. We have to balance the team out over the long run and I think having 3 solid offensive minded d-men w/ 3 hard working no-namers is a good thing. It also might free up some space to get some scoring wingers.

I completely agree with yuour line of thinking, BUT regarding trading Whitney..

Lets say they trade him, and then Gonchar is unable to be the same player post surgery, what if he cant take that big slap shot anymore from teh point? Even if he wasnt hurt he is old. So if we trade away Whits and then Gonch retires in a few years, then we are left with Letang and Gogo of the 4.

The could trade Gonchar OR let him walk after this contract is up. Now I'd only do this if Whitney comes back to full form. This would free up 5 million in cap space to go out and get Sid's long term wing.

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11-30-2008, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I can't imagine keeping Gonch, Whitney, Letang, AND Gogo. One of those 4 has to go for multiple reasons...
They aren't going to trade any of them for multiple reasons. Gonchar might seem like the best one to trade since he's the oldest, but it won't happen. He has a no trade clause (I think) and would be crazy to waive it given the situation he finds himself in in Pittsburgh. And it would probably look bad to future free agents if we even ask him to waive it.

And they aren't going to trade any of the other 3 because they fall into the organization's long-term plans. Gonchar will probably be gone at the end of his contract, and if we've traded one of Whitney, Gogo, or Letang, that would leave us with only 2 offensive defensemen. We'd have effectively changed that aspect of our team from being a strength to being one injury away from a serious weakness. And we all know how Shero likes to plan for injuries when building his blueline.

I suppose the wildcard in this whole equation is Alex Grant. If he continues to develop into a real strong prospect, I could see them trading someone, but that's not going to happen until he's a lot closer to seeing NHL icetime (probably after Gonchar's gone).

Edit: One more comment about Gonchar. Contenders don't trade away cornerstones of their team because they're pending UFA's. Gonchar is not going to be traded. Period.

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11-30-2008, 10:46 PM
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I dont see us re-signing Gill and Scuderi. We have 6 dman on the roster for next year without them, and thats all we need. We dont have the cap to have a 7th dman making 2m+, so i see us letting both walk and keeping Lovejoy/Richmond as the 7th dman. Im sorta surprised everyone sees us getting rid of Eaton...i def. expect Shero to keep him since he is already signed. Hell, i could see us trading someone like Scuderi/Gill at the deadline for wing help...

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11-30-2008, 10:49 PM
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Sykora is the only one of that bunch I would keep. Gill is solid, but we have too many defensemen as is that can play NHL minutes.

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11-30-2008, 10:56 PM
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Don't forget the cap is likely going down next year.
more likely it will only go up slightly. the 2010-11 season would be the one to be concerned about, but i imagine the CBA will be opened up this offseason to find ways to reword how revenue streams are calculated.

regardless, your point is well taken. it's going to be a factor to some extent. would've been nice for the annual cap increase to cover malkin's raise itself, but that doesn't seem too likely at the moment.

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11-30-2008, 11:36 PM
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IMO, overall, we could be spending our money more wisely. Do other teams typically spend $2M on a possible scratch?
Meh. Not every team is perfect. I'd say most have at least a couple albatross contracts they'd rather not have. If Eaton is our biggest and only problem, cap-wise, I'd say we're in good shape.

As far as the players you listed, I don't really know if any will be back. We've got 4 D signed to 1-way deals through next season plus Letang and Goligoski. I think our decision comes down to one of Scuderi OR Gill. Gill will command more money than Scuderi, but both might be out of our price ranges (for a possible #7 guy) if they hit the open market. And that's fine, I think we'll be okay without 'em. If Eaton doesn't return to form I think more promotions from within are an option. Lovejoy could be ready by next year.

I don't have a problem employing 4 O-minded D-men next season for a few reasons. 1 is Gonchar. He might not be back, why deal Goligoski or Whitney for a 1 season surplus? Besides, as long as they're solid as a unit and in their own end, I don't care if we have 6 O-minded defensemen. I don't see how having 4 skilled blueliners is a negative, at all.

Satan and Fedotenko are looking to cash-in, and I don't blame them. If they have productive seasons we won't be able to afford them. if they stink we won't want them.

Sykora I think might want to come back and may take less to do it. But he's not going to accept a 1-year deal. If Ruutu can get a 3 year deal on the open market I'm sure Sykora can ask for at least that, if not 4. If he goes the Penguins will need to fill his spot with another moderately priced, reasonably effective goal-scoring winger, so we might as well make an effort to resign Sykora. Yeah he's a bit one-dimensional and inconsistent as all get out, but he's still pretty productive especially for his price. If we can keep his cap hit at 3 mill or less I'd love to see him back.

Like to see Zigomanis back for obvious reasons, but I won't lose any sleep if he can't be retained. I'm sure he'll gain as much or more interest as Hall did. But faceoff specialists obviously can come cheap if we do our homework.

Everyone else, for all I care, can go. Use the leftover money to go towards extensions for Staal, Letang, and another top-6 winger.


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Old
12-01-2008, 12:08 AM
  #21
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Everyone else, for all I care, can go. Use the leftover money to go towards extensions for Staal, Letang, and another top-6 winger.
Problem is Jacob.... in that scenario there is NO left over money. None.
You look at our commitments for next season.... say we trade Dupuis and Eaton too as players we don't need and who are too highly paid for peripheral roles. Then sign Staal. For arguments sake lets say he gets 4 and Goligoski and Talbot gets 1.2 million. If we're lucky we can shave that a little, but I don't think so.

With a 0.5 per goalkeeper and Kennedy at 0.75 would put us at 45.3 million.... 10-11 million left depending on the cap... and we have only 15 players signed.

XXXX Crosby XXXX
XXXX Malkin XXXX
Cooke Staal TFK
XXXX Talbot Godard
Bissonette

Gonchar Letang
Whitney Orpik
Goligoski

Fleury
Sabu/Curry

There are no top 6 wingers there and only 5 defenders. Say Scuderi is signed for 1.2 as well with us relying on the farm for cover, and Sykora stays for the same as now. I think that would be optimistic, but still. A little more than 6-7 million left with five roster spots and three top 6 wing positions to fill. Add Zigomanis, Jeffrey and maybe Pesonen if we're lucky that he pans out... that'll be close 2.5-3 million surely. Pennies left... three spots to fill, no genuine top 6 winger booster can be signed and Sykora, Pesonen and Talbot would be our likely ones from what we have.

Bottom line: If we want to keep Staal and aren't trading Whitney or Gonchar, there won't be this top6 winger coming. We can't even spend the same as we are today. Its impossible, and I think we should recognize this.


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Old
12-01-2008, 12:40 AM
  #22
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I'll comment on the D first. I don't think Eaton's gonna be moved. Don't think there'll be any takers for a $2 million d-man that's been riding the pine. Granted, Sydor fetched Boucher who is a better fit considering this team, but it's not like the Pens dumped his salary or anything. Plus, Eaton is depth under contract. He'll be back.

I don't see either of Letang or Goligoski being moved. When a team operates under cap constraints, and young guys prove they can play before they break the bank, then these are the guys you keep.

I think Shero likes Whitney and sees him as part of the locked-up core. If he finds the right top-6 guy straight-up then maybe. I doubt this happens. I think it would happen with Gogo first, personally, but still it won't.

I think Scuderi is gone. He will get a 3 year deal worth 7.5 million from someone.

Gill is somewhat older and may only fetch a 2 year deal without much of a raise. I don't think the Pens will want to lose 2 top PKers, and I think Gill will come cheaper.

I don't believe that Gonchar is really moveable. And I also believe having him for 2 more (playoff) years and then letting him walk as a UFA is likely.

So, in that the D is set in my mind for next year.

Orpik-Gonchar
Whitney-Letang
Gill-Goligoski
Eaton

And that very much leaves the choice between keeping Staal or moving him for help at wing. If it's the former, I see the Pens doing exactly what they did this off-season in the next one...trying to sign cheap talents to one-year deals to advance their careers.

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12-01-2008, 01:37 AM
  #23
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Eaton to Toronto for a pick. They are trying to get bouwmeester, so why not also Eaton? adding both would mean solid defense they got.

Kaberle
Bouwmeester
Schenn
Eaton

We help shed money because we could use an extra 2M for a winger. If we traded off Whitney, we would have 6M for a winger right there.

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Old
12-01-2008, 03:02 AM
  #24
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It's too risky to trade any of our puck-movers at this point IMO. We need to hang onto them until we know what we're getting with Gonch. If he looks like the Gonchar of old, Whitney is expendable. If not, we're going to have to bight the bullet and hold onto all 4 of them until Sarge's contract expires after next year. in the meantime, Shero could trade for guys who may be younger and on their rookie contracts (Ehrm... Lisin, Grabner?), or take a low-risk signing on an underachiever/foreigner like Pesonen.

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12-01-2008, 03:10 AM
  #25
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in the meantime, Shero could trade for guys who may be younger and on their rookie contracts (Ehrm... Lisin, Grabner?), or take a low-risk signing on an underachiever/foreigner like Pesonen.
I would like Chicago's Jack Skille. Fast, has a shot on him (right handed), hits, is physical (200+ pounds) and Chicago has so many (better) options for scoring wingers on the right that they're choking on them.

On entry contract until 2010/11 with a cap hit of 1.2 million. Don't know what we have that they would want though.

If Shero could expand on his bottom six signing godliness and find next seasons Kris Versteeg somewhere that would be positive also.... .
Talk about bang for the buck at less than 500.000 dollars...

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