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Old
11-30-2008, 06:25 PM
  #26
MountainHawk
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Why is Kaberle considered proven? He's done great in the regular season, but other than 2001-2 he's been awful in the postseason (18 pts in 57 GP). Trust me ... if I want playoff-tested solid defenseman, I'm not looking at the Leafs roster.

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Old
11-30-2008, 06:26 PM
  #27
BillyShoe1721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGalt View Post
1. Randy Jones would have to go for cap reasons.
2. Flyers don't give up Giroux as Kaberle is fairly redundant given who they already have.
Kaberle would be a significant upgrade to anyone we have besides Timonen.

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Old
11-30-2008, 06:28 PM
  #28
dubey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovechkin187 View Post
To Leafs:
Lupul
Giroux
+ pick

To Flyers:
Kaberle
Gross.

Lupul is way too inconsistent for what he's making.

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Old
11-30-2008, 06:34 PM
  #29
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I think montreal or Boston beat that offer.....
Kaberle is a top flight D, should get top value.

Lupul at 4.25 and Giroux is not top value. Its good value, but I dont think its unbelievable...... Plus once teams peddle top players like Jaybo, other teams feel like they have to load up.

Most teams dont want to trade a top 9 player during a cup run but with 3 forwards making over 5 and 3 making over 4....Somethings gotta give in philly.

Kaberle if traded would get the most out of any player I think, just based on his skill and contract.

Think of the top 4's

Timonen Coburn
Carle Kaberle

Kaberle Chara
Wideman Ference

Markov Komiserek
Kaberle Hamrlik.....

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Old
11-30-2008, 06:37 PM
  #30
Makaveli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
I think montreal or Boston beat that offer.....
Kaberle is a top flight D, should get top value.

Lupul at 4.25 and Giroux is not top value. Its good value, but I dont think its unbelievable...... Plus once teams peddle top players like Jaybo, other teams feel like they have to load up.

Most teams dont want to trade a top 9 player during a cup run but with 3 forwards making over 5 and 3 making over 4....Somethings gotta give in philly.

Kaberle if traded would get the most out of any player I think, just based on his skill and contract.

Think of the top 4's

Timonen Coburn
Carle Kaberle

Kaberle Chara
Wideman Ference

Markov Komiserek
Kaberle Hamrlik.....
What are Montreal's and Boston's offers?

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Old
11-30-2008, 06:44 PM
  #31
JGalt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Kaberle would be a significant upgrade to anyone we have besides Timonen.
He's an upgrade yes, but he's a similar type player to what the Flyers already have an abundance of in Timonen/Sbisa/Carle/Jones. They can get much better value going after a guy with traits that they lack, that is shut down defense, physicality, size and a strong point shot, rather than another relatively soft, offensively minded playmaker.

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Old
11-30-2008, 06:59 PM
  #32
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Lupul and Giroux is too much to give up, not to mention the cap issues that have been noted. Add Jones and a guy like Maroon or Nodl instead of Giroux. With Briere Richards Gagne and Carter making over 20mil between the 4 of them we're gonna need the rookie contracts.

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Old
11-30-2008, 08:48 PM
  #33
Makaveli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
Lupul and Giroux is too much to give up, not to mention the cap issues that have been noted. Add Jones and a guy like Maroon or Nodl instead of Giroux. With Briere Richards Gagne and Carter making over 20mil between the 4 of them we're gonna need the rookie contracts.
No thank you.

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Old
11-30-2008, 08:51 PM
  #34
GKJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Why is Kaberle considered proven? He's done great in the regular season, but other than 2001-2 he's been awful in the postseason (18 pts in 57 GP). Trust me ... if I want playoff-tested solid defenseman, I'm not looking at the Leafs roster.
Kaberle is very playoff tested. He is more tested than any defenseman we have outside of Hatcher. Just because he only has 18 points doesn't change that. His teams have accomplished more than Kimmo Timonen's teams have.

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Old
11-30-2008, 10:19 PM
  #35
ELab2
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I'm fine with our defense for the time being, if stuff starts to fall apart I would explore getting someone like Kaberle but not right now.

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Old
11-30-2008, 10:36 PM
  #36
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A trade between the Flyers and Leafs just doesn't have the kind of ingredients back and forth to make it work. Lupul isn't a draft pick or a prospect, so he's not what the Leafs are looking for. It would have to look something like this if they were going to make it better than other team. Given what the Flyers have available, it would have to involve JVR or Claude Giroux, and considering the Flyers are relatively weak in young wingers for the future, I doubt they'd be willing to do it.

I could see maybe the following :

TO PHI :

Tomas Kaberle

TO TOR :

2009 1st Round Pick
2010 2nd Round Pick
2009 5th Round Pick

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Old
11-30-2008, 10:48 PM
  #37
ELab2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TribalPhoenix View Post
A trade between the Flyers and Leafs just doesn't have the kind of ingredients back and forth to make it work. Lupul isn't a draft pick or a prospect, so he's not what the Leafs are looking for. It would have to look something like this if they were going to make it better than other team. Given what the Flyers have available, it would have to involve JVR or Claude Giroux, and considering the Flyers are relatively weak in young wingers for the future, I doubt they'd be willing to do it.

I could see maybe the following :

TO PHI :

Tomas Kaberle

TO TOR :

2009 1st Round Pick
2010 2nd Round Pick
2009 5th Round Pick
salary cap

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Old
11-30-2008, 10:54 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blah View Post
Don't need Kaberle, unless Carle is going the other way. At this point, they'd be better off adding another solid stay at home dman like Ossi V..
Your defense isn't exactly stellar.

Kaberle would be a godsend to you guys.

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Old
11-30-2008, 10:57 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
salary cap
Feeds into my original point - Leafs and Flyers don't have the necessary ingredients to consumate a deal. Flyers don't need another defenceman, and would have to send one back, but the Leafs want youth and picks. Flyers also need more cap space, which just ain't gonna be there period.

Kabs belongs with a team that needs an elite puck moving defenceman who is playoff bound, or trying to be.

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Old
11-30-2008, 11:12 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
Your defense isn't exactly stellar.

Kaberle would be a godsend to you guys.
It's slowly coming together.

I like Kaberle, but they need another stay at home dman with some size. The Flyers blueline is unusually soft this year.

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Old
11-30-2008, 11:20 PM
  #41
LEIFey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
Your defense isn't exactly stellar.

Kaberle would be a godsend to you guys.
considering our defense's makeup and our cap situation, kaberle wouldn't be an ideal addition to our unit unless there's a significant reorganization.

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Old
11-30-2008, 11:37 PM
  #42
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Carle, Lupul, Nodl for Kabs and Poni.

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Old
11-30-2008, 11:43 PM
  #43
Mike Richards 18
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why does poni name come up in every leafs flyers proposal??

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Old
11-30-2008, 11:44 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersCupChamps08 View Post
why does poni name come up in every leafs flyers proposal??
Same reason why NYR fans include Rozie and Prucha or Dawes into every prop.

and Poni has reasonable cap hit.

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Old
12-01-2008, 12:35 AM
  #45
turkinaa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Same reason why NYR fans include Rozie and Prucha or Dawes into every prop.
I would think the Rangers would just want to move Prucha - the player who is always first to be scratched and can't crack the line up.

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Old
12-01-2008, 01:29 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by turkinaa View Post
I would think the Rangers would just want to move Prucha - the player who is always first to be scratched and can't crack the line up.
Prucha was moved. Press Box.

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Old
12-01-2008, 02:08 AM
  #47
Nizdizzle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Carle, Lupul, Nodl for Kabs and Poni.
Whats the valuable part to the Leafs? I wouldn't do that deal for Kaberle alone. If you want Kaberle, there has to be a very nice centerpiece. IMO, Lupul isn't it.

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Old
12-01-2008, 02:45 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubey View Post
Gross.

Lupul is way too inconsistent for what he's making.
Really?

Goals per game for Joffrey Lupul:
2005-06: 28/81 = 0,3456
2006-07: 16/81 = 0,1975
2007-08: 20/56 = 0,3471
2008-09: 8/23 = 0,3478 (on pace for 28)

Except for his wretched season with the Oilers he is one of the most consistent people I've seen.





As for the original Draft proposal I have pretty much the same to say as GKJ: The Flyers are not going to trade for Defensemen without trading away Defensemen.


Last edited by chaosof99*: 12-01-2008 at 09:19 AM.
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Old
12-01-2008, 03:42 AM
  #49
BrindamoursNose
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Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
What else should Kaberle be a bargain in? Thats like saying a Brodeur is only good because he stops the puck from going in the net.

And 30 years old is not old.



Hes on pace for 53 points on one of the worst teams in the NHL. If he isn't playing like himself this season, it'll sure be scary when he does.



Yup, a streaky winger who produces only when with a very good center, and a good prospect is too much for one of the premier puckmoving D-men in the league signed to a ridiculous contract.
1st point:...well no, it's not the same at all. Kaberle is specifically a bargain because he makes roughly 2 mill less than other All-Star d-men. That's why I say that he's a bargain.

2nd point: 30 years makes him an oldER player. Lupul is like 24-25, Giroux is probably 20. Being older players a role in trades, it just does. I'm not saying it's a huge deal but it counts towards it.

3rd point: Points aren't everything man. I watched him a few times this year and talked to a few Leaf fans...they said he's not been defenisvely consistent, and I saw that as well Saturday night. The Flyers can't afford to add a D-Man who isn't playing physical, good defense. We just can't.

4th point: The streaky winger is still pretty young and hovering around 30 goals a year. Why wouldn't a team be interested in that? Especially a team like Toronto that has virtually no better scoring option. Giroux is a pretttty good prospect as it stands. He's got pretty nice value.

The overall point: Coburn, Timonen and Carle are the 3 D-Men we needed to make me think we're legit. I don't think we need to trade 2 of our young/promising wingers for Kaberle, I just don't think it's a necessity. I'd rather trade less to get the RIGHT D-Man...I'd rather give that package for Robyn Regher. This time last year, I was all about getting him, but we're in a different position now. I'm content with our top 3 as is, and with Parent/Jones coming back..I'm quite thrilled.

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Old
12-01-2008, 03:45 AM
  #50
BrindamoursNose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Kaberle would be a significant upgrade to anyone we have besides Timonen.
Coburn has shown he can give you Kaberle's output, and Carle is right below Kaberle right now. I don't see why it's urgent to get a Kaberle. I'd rather get a better defensive shut-down D-Man.

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