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Old
12-01-2008, 09:16 PM
  #76
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And for the record...

I'm not saying to trade Gonchar. All I'm saying is that if it came down to Whitney or Gonchar getting the boot, I'd try to coax Gonchar rather than trading Whitney.

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12-01-2008, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
Crosby and Malkin are fine without elite wingers. It'd be nice, and it'd certainly pad their stats, but elite wingers are a luxury that we can do without.
Malkin and Sid are fine. That is true, it seems. However, I think Shero is also less nostalgic than many posters here in terms of trading players we really like for something that can make the team better long term.

Whereas real top 6 wingers is a luxury we can do without (maybe) then it is certainly true also that all the *****ing about Therrien not having this team play to Malkin and Crosby's strengths have a lot to do with not having the personnel up front to play attacking up-and-down hockey. Our wingers are either too slow and wimpish for that or just lack the offensive instincts and puck handling skills.

Staal as a third line center at 4 million is the definition of "luxury you can do without" when you can insert Talbot in his place for less than a third, and get really good pieces back for Staal. Say, something centered on Skille + Brouwer and a pick from Chicago who would love to get their second line center. That would be two top 6 players for us, both of them more physical than anyone we have, big bodied, right handed shots, Skille really fast, Brouwer a tank. You'd lose Staal who is the better player in the deal now and for the foreseeable future, but you already have his adequate replacement and you get two top 6 wingers - for the same price as signing Staal. At least Brouwer is already playing there and Skille would have had a chance in teams where there weren't such an abundance of options and his 1.25 million cap hit wouldn't bring the team over.

I would personally prefer to see Whitney traded if I allow for some sentimentality, but he doesn't bring the same return, and with Gonchar's situation Whitney might be more fundamental long term to Pittsburgh.

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12-01-2008, 10:01 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
And for the record...

I'm not saying to trade Gonchar. All I'm saying is that if it came down to Whitney or Gonchar getting the boot, I'd try to coax Gonchar rather than trading Whitney.
A lot of people here feel the same way. And I still don't get it. Gonchar is better than Whitney. Bottom line. He's an extra $1 million cap hit better. Age and salary shouldn't supercede talent and results, imo. Because if we chose Whitney over Gonchar, we'd be without a true No. 1 blueline until/unless Letang became one.

I'd rather keep the one we have. The only way I would agree with you is if it's CLEARLY evident that Whitney has surpassed Gonchar once both return from injury. Since neither needed brain surgery, I doubt that's going to happen.

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12-01-2008, 10:04 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
Malkin and Sid are fine. That is true, it seems. However, I think Shero is also less nostalgic than many posters here in terms of trading players we really like for something that can make the team better long term.

Whereas real top 6 wingers is a luxury we can do without (maybe) then it is certainly true also that all the *****ing about Therrien not having this team play to Malkin and Crosby's strengths have a lot to do with not having the personnel up front to play attacking up-and-down hockey. Our wingers are either too slow and wimpish for that or just lack the offensive instincts and puck handling skills.

Staal as a third line center at 4 million is the definition of "luxury you can do without" when you can insert Talbot in his place for less than a third, and get really good pieces back for Staal. Say, something centered on Skille + Brouwer and a pick from Chicago who would love to get their second line center. That would be two top 6 players for us, both of them more physical than anyone we have, big bodied, right handed shots, Skille really fast, Brouwer a tank. You'd lose Staal who is the better player in the deal now and for the foreseeable future, but you already have his adequate replacement and you get two top 6 wingers - for the same price as signing Staal. At least Brouwer is already playing there and Skille would have had a chance in teams where there weren't such an abundance of options and his 1.25 million cap hit wouldn't bring the team over.

I would personally prefer to see Whitney traded if I allow for some sentimentality, but he doesn't bring the same return, and with Gonchar's situation Whitney might be more fundamental long term to Pittsburgh.
It's still about icing the best team, though. Nobody on this team can replace Staal as the third line center. Talbot would fill in, but we would lose an impact player. Trading Whitney is better because we don't lose much if Gonchar, Letang and Goligoski are healthy. And let's not forget the shrewd addition of Boucher. All that makes Whitney far more expendable than Staal imo.

I don't know about having 4 legit top-six wingers with our center constitution, but I think we do NEED 1. And we don't really have one...a consistent one.

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12-01-2008, 10:35 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
It's still about icing the best team, though.
Hey! That is my point .

I'd love to have Staal long term, but there are consequences to that. We have a team with no natural top 6 wingers signed for next season. Signing Staal (and, say, Zigomanis) means we'd be committing more than 22 million to four centers while not having the money to even be on par with the winger quality we have this season (where it is bad enough, no?). Plus no real candidates to make it up from the farm unless Caputi develops faster than we could almost be allowed to hope for.
This is with us already having current alternatives to Staal on the third line. Talbot wouldn't be one of the best third line centers in the NHL like Staal, but he wouldn't be paid like one of the best, either, and Cooke - Talbot - TFK would be one of the most energetic non-stop motoring pest/cycle lines around - with quite a bit of clutch scoring ability still. 4th line center Talbot in 20 games less scored as much as 3rd line center Jordan Staal last season. Not saying their potential is that even at all, but I'll take that downgrade if it means putting our cap issues to rest while getting upgrades for Sid/Malkin. Staal won't be the last big name player to leave us in the Sid/Malkin era. What matters is that we get the right returns on them unlike Ottawa.

Lets be honest - who has contributed more so far this season: Jordan Staal or Kris Versteeg? Both are RFA's in the offseason. Staal is obviously much more valuable as an asset and a better player, but who has made the bigger impact?
A scoring winger just matters more than a third line center, because the latter position can always be filled adequately and for much less. Staal's value would be much bigger to other teams than it is for us. Which is in itself a perfect reason to look at what he can get us in return. The same does not hold true for Whitney to the same extent, and with him you can at least see the very likely scenario that he will come to get a bigger role in the years to come - already signed as he is and with Gonchar injured and aging. Staal will never have a bigger role with us, as he is not a scoring winger and Crosby/Malkin blocks him from the position he should ultimately excel in.

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12-01-2008, 10:39 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
Hey! That is my point .

I'd love to have Staal long term, but there are consequences to that. We have a team with no natural top 6 wingers signed for next season. Signing Staal (and, say, Zigomanis) means we'd be committing more than 22 million to four centers while not having the money to even be on par with the winger quality we have this season (where it is bad enough, no?). Plus no real candidates to make it up from the farm unless Caputi develops faster than we could almost be allowed to hope for.
This is with us already having current alternatives to Staal on the third line. Talbot wouldn't be one of the best third line centers in the NHL like Staal, but he wouldn't be paid like one of the best, either, and Cooke - Talbot - TFK would be one of the most energetic non-stop motoring pest/cycle lines around - with quite a bit of clutch scoring ability still. 4th line center Talbot in 20 games less scored as much as 3rd line center Jordan Staal last season. Not saying their potential is that even at all, but I'll take that downgrade if it means putting our cap issues to rest while getting upgrades for Sid/Malkin. Staal won't be the last big name player to leave us in the Sid/Malkin era. What matters is that we get the right returns on them unlike Ottawa.

Lets be honest - who has contributed more so far this season: Jordan Staal or Kris Versteeg? Both are RFA's in the offseason. Staal is obviously much more valuable as an asset and a better player, but who has made the bigger impact?
A scoring winger just matters more than a third line center, because the latter position can always be filled adequately and for much less. Staal's value would be much bigger to other teams than it is for us. Which is in itself a perfect reason to look at what he can get us in return. The same does not hold true for Whitney to the same extent, and with him you can at least see the very likely scenario that he will come to get a bigger role in the years to come - already signed as he is and with Gonchar injured and aging. Staal will never have a bigger role with us, as he is not a scoring winger and Crosby/Malkin blocks him from the position he should ultimately excel in.
You make some good points, and I don't wholly disagree with you. Having said that, I read an interesting article the other day (SI) that made a good point -- calling Jordan Staal (even in his CURRENT capacity) a 'third line center' is a bit of a misnomer -- the guy plays 20+ minutes a night.

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12-01-2008, 10:41 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
A lot of people here feel the same way. And I still don't get it. Gonchar is better than Whitney. Bottom line. He's an extra $1 million cap hit better. Age and salary shouldn't supercede talent and results, imo. Because if we chose Whitney over Gonchar, we'd be without a true No. 1 blueline until/unless Letang became one.

I'd rather keep the one we have. The only way I would agree with you is if it's CLEARLY evident that Whitney has surpassed Gonchar once both return from injury. Since neither needed brain surgery, I doubt that's going to happen.
I think you are vastly selling Whitney short. Whitney in his first full year in the NHL scored 59 points and played a defensive game that was very much on par with Gonchar. If you remember, Gonchar only within the last season has really taken his defensive game to that next level. Whitney in the playoffs looked to be taking his there also.

I'm just going from a mere economic standpoint here. Gonchar, IMO, is no doubt better than Whitney, but again, let's look at facts.

Gonchar is 35 at seasons end, Whitney is 26.

Their offensive production the last season Whitney was healthy were only seperated by 8 points (Whitney was 24).

Gonchar is not here long term. I think Shero signing Whitney for as long as he did, made that quite clear. Whitney also signed a sweetheart deal with us.

I'm not a cap expert by any means, but who knows what the cap will be in 2010. Yes, Gonchar might be a million dollars more better than Whitney now, but remember thats for only 1 more season. Sarge's next contract will probably be his last, and he is surely due for a raise. I mean, look at the money top powerplay QB's are getting these days. You are looking up around 7 million. Is Gonchar 3 million dollars better than Whitney? Couple that with the fact it very well might be Gonchar's last contract, can you really see him giving a discount? Young guys give discounts who's highest earning years are ahead of them, not a 35 year old defenseman who is on the downswing of his career.

I think Gonchar would have a higher return than that of Whitney.

Again, let me stress, these are just facts and how I rationalize things. Is this the best for the team right now? Probably not. Is it economically the best for the team in the future...I think so. Though, all the time I have wasted typing in this thread is moot because Gonchar has a NTC.

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12-01-2008, 10:55 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
Malkin and Sid are fine. That is true, it seems. However, I think Shero is also less nostalgic than many posters here in terms of trading players we really like for something that can make the team better long term.

Whereas real top 6 wingers is a luxury we can do without (maybe) then it is certainly true also that all the *****ing about Therrien not having this team play to Malkin and Crosby's strengths have a lot to do with not having the personnel up front to play attacking up-and-down hockey. Our wingers are either too slow and wimpish for that or just lack the offensive instincts and puck handling skills.

Staal as a third line center at 4 million is the definition of "luxury you can do without" when you can insert Talbot in his place for less than a third, and get really good pieces back for Staal. Say, something centered on Skille + Brouwer and a pick from Chicago who would love to get their second line center. That would be two top 6 players for us, both of them more physical than anyone we have, big bodied, right handed shots, Skille really fast, Brouwer a tank. You'd lose Staal who is the better player in the deal now and for the foreseeable future, but you already have his adequate replacement and you get two top 6 wingers - for the same price as signing Staal. At least Brouwer is already playing there and Skille would have had a chance in teams where there weren't such an abundance of options and his 1.25 million cap hit wouldn't bring the team over.

I would personally prefer to see Whitney traded if I allow for some sentimentality, but he doesn't bring the same return, and with Gonchar's situation Whitney might be more fundamental long term to Pittsburgh.
No, you'd get two guys who might become top 6 wingers someday. Don't talk about them like they're sure things, because they're not. If they were, Brouwer would have more than a little over half of Tyler Kennedy's points, and Skille wouldn't be in the AHL.

Like Shelley Anderson said the other day, the only way Staal should potentially get traded is for a young, proven scoring winger who's signed for at least another couple of years.

This deal isn't that. Not even close. You'd be trading Staal for a handful of not-so-magic beans.

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12-01-2008, 10:59 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by LetangInTheSO View Post
You make some good points, and I don't wholly disagree with you. Having said that, I read an interesting article the other day (SI) that made a good point -- calling Jordan Staal (even in his CURRENT capacity) a 'third line center' is a bit of a misnomer -- the guy plays 20+ minutes a night.
That's true and its a testament to a: Jordan Staal being a really good player, b: us having to give him more ice time because of that, c: him being a great PK player and d: us not having anyone else with a big body to put in front of the net on the PP.

But... it doesn't change that he is not getting that ice time on a top 6 line of first PP unit, nor does it change that lots of guys can kill penalties (cheaply) and we're now seeing both Malkin and Sid do so more whereas they didn't last year (their ice time is going up also).

If you look to scoring, again Staal has lots of untapped potential, sure, but from the third line? I'll again point to Talbot getting 12 in just 60 something games as a 4th line center last season (with TFK). Not the same impact player, but the loss here must be seen in relation to what could be gained elsewhere.

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12-01-2008, 10:59 PM
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I wouldnt trade Staal if I could resign him for 3 or more years at 4M, it just wouldnt happen. The dude has barely scratched the surface of his talent.

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12-01-2008, 11:01 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
No, you'd get two guys who might become top 6 wingers someday. Don't talk about them like they're sure things, because they're not. If they were, Brouwer would have more than a little over half of Tyler Kennedy's points, and Skille wouldn't be in the AHL.

Like Shelley Anderson said the other day, the only way Staal should potentially get traded is for a young, proven scoring winger who's signed for at least another couple of years.

This deal isn't that. Not even close. You'd be trading Staal for a handful of not-so-magic beans.
To me Staal also falls into that might be a top 6 winger someday category. He has yet to show that he can produce on the wing...and thats playing with Malkin. He may end up being a great center, but can we afford to pay a third line center that kind of money? My opinion is no

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12-01-2008, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
No, you'd get two guys who might become top 6 wingers someday. Don't talk about them like they're sure things, because they're not. If they were, Brouwer would have more than a little over half of Tyler Kennedy's points, and Skille wouldn't be in the AHL.

Like Shelley Anderson said the other day, the only way Staal should potentially get traded is for a young, proven scoring winger who's signed for at least another couple of years.

This deal isn't that. Not even close. You'd be trading Staal for a handful of not-so-magic beans.
Of course it is a risk/gamble, but Brouwer in fact is playing top 6 with Chicago now, and the depth of the Blackhawks means that it is quite different breaking into their roster than it would be breaking into ours. They have Byfuglien and Ladd playing on the third line and four top6 prospects better than Caputi still in the minors. If Skille would not be a top 6 winger for us next season over guys like Talbot and Fedotenko I would be extremely surprised.

And I'm not saying it should necessarily be these guys. If you can get a proven, signed top six winger plus a prospect for Staal... then great. But I don't see where that is coming from while helping the cap issue (you'd be getting a guy like Stempniak), and whatever we think is fair or not, Staal's third line position means he isn't putting up the points that boosts his value. Kessel for instance has much more trade value than him today.

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12-01-2008, 11:12 PM
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To me Staal also falls into that might be a top 6 winger someday category. He has yet to show that he can produce on the wing...and thats playing with Malkin. He may end up being a great center, but can we afford to pay a third line center that kind of money? My opinion is no
I could care less if he ever transfers to wing. I'd much rather hang onto a guy who's already a very valuable player in this league, and who has the goal-scoring history, playoff performance, pedigree, and flashes of dominance at this level to suggest he could be a great center than deal him for two guys who are older, not terribly well-regarded and are no guarantees to even become successful NHL players, let alone impact ones.

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12-01-2008, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
Of course it is a risk/gamble, but Brouwer in fact is playing top 6 with Chicago now, and the depth of the Blackhawks means that it is quite different breaking into their roster than it would be breaking into ours. They have Byfuglien and Ladd playing on the third line and four top6 prospects better than Caputi still in the minors. If Skille would not be a top 6 winger for us next season over guys like Talbot and Fedotenko I would be extremely surprised.

And I'm not saying it should necessarily be these guys. If you can get a proven, signed top six winger plus a prospect for Staal... then great. But I don't see where that is coming from while helping the cap issue (you'd be getting a guy like Stempniak), and whatever we think is fair or not, Staal's third line position means he isn't putting up the points that boosts his value. Kessel for instance has much more trade value than him today.
If his trade value isn't high, then his RFA value isn't high, which is no problem at all. The first priority should be to sign Staal (a no brainer for anything around 4.5 per), and figure everything else out later. You don't trade a player who's shown what he's shown so early in his career for a couple of maybes just because they're a different position.

That's silly and counter to the entire drafting philosophy of drafting BPA. If we were only going to trade Staal after 3 good years for a couple of middling wing prospects anyway, we might as well have waited to draft Okposo.

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12-01-2008, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
I could care less if he ever transfers to wing. I'd much rather hang onto a guy who's already a very valuable player in this league, and who has the goal-scoring history, playoff performance, pedigree, and flashes of dominance at this level to suggest he could be a great center than deal him for two guys who are older, not terribly well-regarded and are no guarantees to even become successful NHL players, let alone impact ones.
Yes dont anger the local Staal lovers. They will snap back very harshly.

Staal is VERY valuable to any team. We have the two best centers in the game and we are still are holding onto him even tohugh we have no wingers, he is that valuable.

I say keep him if he signs a cheaper deal around 3.5 a year for four years maybe 3-3-4-4. If he starts asking for 4-5.5 I say we have to trade him. Malkin,Talbot,Gogo, and Staal raises. The could be close to another 10million in cap.

Malkins 3.8 to 8.7 raise 4.9
Talbot .675 to est1.4 .750
Staal 2.2 to est4.5 2.3
Gogo .984 to est2.5 1.5

9.45 all estimations but thats a lot of added cap.

Still Have As UFAs

Scuds
Boucher
Gill
Satan
Sykora
Fedetenko
Zigomanis
Sabourin

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12-01-2008, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
If his trade value isn't high, then his RFA value isn't high, which is no problem at all. The first priority should be to sign Staal (a no brainer for anything around 4.5 per), and figure everything else out later. You don't trade a player who's shown what he's shown so early in his career for a couple of maybes just because they're a different position.

That's silly and counter to the entire drafting philosophy of drafting BPA. If we were only going to trade Staal after 3 good years for a couple of middling wing prospects anyway, we might as well have waited to draft Okposo.
Except for the value we've already gotten from him on the ice, plus the fact that his performances have made him an asset that can bring a lot more back than Okposo. For the record, Jack Skille was a 7th overall pick in 2005. Okposo a 7th overall pick in 2006 - and no I am not saying that they're equal.

In any case your "no brainer" is only a no-brainer when you don't look at context at all. If you ask me if Staal is worth a 4-4.5 million contract, yes he is. Is he worth a 4-4.5 million contract to play as a third line center on the Pittsburgh Penguins with the implications that has for the rest of the team? That is an entirely different question if you, like me, is preoccupied with Pittsbugh Penguins winning anything, rather than Pittsburgh Penguin having a good team with Jordan Staal on it. No offense.

Your work it all out later, you say.... I ran those numbers yesterday, and if we're signing Staal to the contract you suggest while keeping Whitney, there is NOTHING to work on or work out, as we have zip, skip and nada left to do it with. It means three third liners in top 6 wing positions, unless someone gives us scoring winger prospects that pan out for Eaton or Dupuis or something. Fat chance.

NB: As for signing him to 4.5 long term, sure, to then trade him and avoid the horror of giving him up to an offer sheet. Lots of teams would and could pay him that while giving up substantial returns.


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12-01-2008, 11:37 PM
  #92
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Talbot est1.4 - Crosby 8.7 - X
X Malkin 8.7 - X
Cooke 1.2 - Staal est4.5 - Kennedy .700
Dupuis 1.4 -X -Godard .750

Gonch 5
Whit 4
Orpik 3.75
Eaton 2
Letang .835
Gogo est2.5


Fleury 5.25
Curry .5

1mil injures or 13thoffensemen/7thdman

52.005 with Staal at 4.5, Gogo at 2.5, and Talbot at 1.4. Which are all reasonable.


4 spots to Fill

Lets say

Zig .750

52.755 and if the cap remains around the same...

You have 4 million dollars for 3 players to play wings for Crosby and Malkin

but let me guess.

You want Eaton and Dupuis gone so thats 3.4 mill but who is going to be our 6th dman? Scuds for 2? Gill for 2.5?

So maybe around 5-5.5 million for 3 wingers.
Or just put AHLers for our 6th to save pennies but also make our defense worse!!!

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12-01-2008, 11:47 PM
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I like the scenario even better with TK in the top 6 & Dupuis on the 3rd line. The 4th line wing spot goes to whoever can do the best job for the league minimum, basically. Or a WB/S promotion.

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12-01-2008, 11:53 PM
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I think you are vastly selling Whitney short. Whitney in his first full year in the NHL scored 59 points and played a defensive game that was very much on par with Gonchar. If you remember, Gonchar only within the last season has really taken his defensive game to that next level. Whitney in the playoffs looked to be taking his there also.

I'm just going from a mere economic standpoint here. Gonchar, IMO, is no doubt better than Whitney, but again, let's look at facts.

Gonchar is 35 at seasons end, Whitney is 26.

Their offensive production the last season Whitney was healthy were only seperated by 8 points (Whitney was 24).

Gonchar is not here long term. I think Shero signing Whitney for as long as he did, made that quite clear. Whitney also signed a sweetheart deal with us.

I'm not a cap expert by any means, but who knows what the cap will be in 2010. Yes, Gonchar might be a million dollars more better than Whitney now, but remember thats for only 1 more season. Sarge's next contract will probably be his last, and he is surely due for a raise. I mean, look at the money top powerplay QB's are getting these days. You are looking up around 7 million. Is Gonchar 3 million dollars better than Whitney? Couple that with the fact it very well might be Gonchar's last contract, can you really see him giving a discount? Young guys give discounts who's highest earning years are ahead of them, not a 35 year old defenseman who is on the downswing of his career.

I think Gonchar would have a higher return than that of Whitney.

Again, let me stress, these are just facts and how I rationalize things. Is this the best for the team right now? Probably not. Is it economically the best for the team in the future...I think so. Though, all the time I have wasted typing in this thread is moot because Gonchar has a NTC.
The thing I'll never agree with is the notion that $4 million for Ryan Whitney is a "sweetheart" of a deal. Unless he becomes Nick Lidstrom or Sergei Zubov, he's not going to be able to justify that contract from a defensive standpoint. Yeah, the guy can put up points but his boneheadedness coupled with his complete lack of physicality just doesn't equate.

But enough about that, because as you said Gonchar is going nowhere.

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12-01-2008, 11:59 PM
  #95
Tender Rip
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I like the scenario even better with TK in the top 6 & Dupuis on the 3rd line. The 4th line wing spot goes to whoever can do the best job for the league minimum, basically. Or a WB/S promotion.
Considering your earlier posts that means:

Talbot Crosby TFK
X Malkin Sykora
Cooke Staal Dupuis
Jeffrey Zigo Godard

...and not enough funds to get a difference maker for the last spot.

Fair enough, but this would quite likely be the worst group of wingers/the most offensively challenged wingers in the entire NHL next season.

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12-02-2008, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
Considering your earlier posts that means:

Talbot Crosby TFK
X Malkin Sykora
Cooke Staal Dupuis
Jeffrey Zigo Godard

...and not enough funds to get a difference maker for the last spot.

Fair enough, but this would quite likely be the worst group of wingers/the most offensively challenged wingers in the entire NHL next season.

Hahaha 52.005 +.500(4th liner) + est2.5 for sykora

55.005 just enough room for Minard. hahahaha Talbot, TFK, Sykora, Minard bringing the cup back to the burgh in 09-10. With these new lines, all 4 lines would be worse....

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12-02-2008, 12:13 AM
  #97
Jag68Sid87
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The key is going to be trading Whitney's $4 million to help get a winger. Then use free agency to land another and then hope one of the kids can contribute as a top six next season (Kennedy, Caputi, Jeffrey or Zabotel...long shots include Minard, Pesonen and our '09 first rounder).

If we can get those three elements in our top six, then we could live with a Talbot or Dupuis or Cooke to round it out. Something like this...

Talbot-Crosby-winger acquired via UFA
Caputi-Malkin-winger acquired by trading Whitney
Cooke-Staal-Kennedy
Bissonnette-Zigomanis-Godard
Minard

Orpik-Letang
Scuderi-Gonchar
Gill-Goligoski
Boucher

Fleury
Curry

trade Eaton and Dupuis for cap purposes for anything we can get.

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12-02-2008, 12:20 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
The thing I'll never agree with is the notion that $4 million for Ryan Whitney is a "sweetheart" of a deal. Unless he becomes Nick Lidstrom or Sergei Zubov, he's not going to be able to justify that contract from a defensive standpoint. Yeah, the guy can put up points but his boneheadedness coupled with his complete lack of physicality just doesn't equate.

But enough about that, because as you said Gonchar is going nowhere.
You realize a guy who is a mere powerplay QB in this league anymore is getting 4 million a year, right?

Your hate for Whitney is clouding rationale I think.

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12-02-2008, 12:21 AM
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pensown
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
The key is going to be trading Whitney's $4 million to help get a winger. Then use free agency to land another and then hope one of the kids can contribute as a top six next season (Kennedy, Caputi, Jeffrey or Zabotel...long shots include Minard, Pesonen and our '09 first rounder).

If we can get those three elements in our top six, then we could live with a Talbot or Dupuis or Cooke to round it out. Something like this...

Talbot-Crosby-winger acquired via UFA
Caputi-Malkin-winger acquired by trading Whitney
Cooke-Staal-Kennedy
Bissonnette-Zigomanis-Godard
Minard

Orpik-Letang
Scuderi-Gonchar
Gill-Goligoski
Boucher

Fleury
Curry

trade Eaton and Dupuis for cap purposes for anything we can get.
Could happen, but you are banking on UFA. In which we got really nothing too great last year. We could end up with another winger that our coach likes to throw on the 4th line here and there for not producing.

I would say we NEED picks/prospects and wingers.

Eaton/Dupuis for Prospects/Picks is a given.

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12-02-2008, 12:23 AM
  #100
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Whitney's contract is a bargain if he can put up 50 points a year which is not an unreasonable expectation for him. Heck, Gonchar is a bargain at 5million.


Whitney's contract actually would make him very desirable if Shero ever decided to trade him. It is also a big reason why I don't think Shero will in the foreseeable future.

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