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Is Guillaume the next Pierre Dagenais?

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Old
12-02-2008, 12:21 AM
  #26
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Good post Kriss, sums it up well.

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12-02-2008, 12:29 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post

As for the Dagenais comparison, that's beyond pathetic.
the only thing that's pathetic is your unjustified and probably biased praise of Latendresse, at the expense of much more talented players than him

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12-02-2008, 12:31 AM
  #28
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For how much longer can we stop saying that Latendresse is still young. Yeah, he is 21 but he has 3 seasons over 180 games in the nhl. Have he shown any sign of amelioration since the camp of 06-07? Very slightly if you ask me. Actually i think he played his best hockey in that camp.

At this pace, Latendresse will end the season with around 25-30 pts, again.

Latendresse is overall at pretty much everything. If he wants to play on the powerplay, he has to deserve it but he has nothing special to play on the powerplay. If he plays more physical, putting himself in front of the goaler at even strenght, then the coach will have reason to put in on PP but he is not doing that. He dumps the puck in the corner, win his battle near the board from time to time, skating around giving body checks here and there will not be enough to win pp time.

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12-02-2008, 12:49 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
For how much longer can we stop saying that Latendresse is still young. Yeah, he is 21 but he has 3 seasons over 180 games in the nhl. Have he shown any sign of amelioration since the camp of 06-07? Very slightly if you ask me. Actually i think he played his best hockey in that camp.

At this pace, Latendresse will end the season with around 25-30 pts, again.

Latendresse is overall at pretty much everything. If he wants to play on the powerplay, he has to deserve it but he has nothing special to play on the powerplay. If he plays more physical, putting himself in front of the goaler at even strenght, then the coach will have reason to put in on PP but he is not doing that. He dumps the puck in the corner, win his battle near the board from time to time, skating around giving body checks here and there will not be enough to win pp time.
Really? You think a guy who's 21 can already have his career potential assessed?

Look at Guy Lafleur's stats in his first 3 years (he was 22 by the end of the 3rd).

1971-72 Montreal Canadiens NHL 73 29 35 64
1972-73 Montreal Canadiens NHL 70 28 27 55
1973-74 Montreal Canadiens NHL 73 21 35 56

Hell, Lafleur even regressed from his first to third season.

Clearly a bust...

21 is extremely young. That he's even in the NHL is impressive enough at this age.

That people are so quick to criticize him and give up on him is flabbergasting.

PS: The first person who says I'm an idiot for comparing Latendresse to Lafleur gets a kick in the nuts from the common sense police.

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12-02-2008, 01:09 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by mrCoffea View Post
the only thing that's pathetic is your unjustified and probably biased praise of Latendresse, at the expense of much more talented players than him
Biased?..I don't even like him..
You would know that if you had read my opinion on the matter from all the threads that were created about this.

Like I said in my post, it's about getting the most out of your 12Forwards.
I couldn't care less who's better and I'm not saying Lats is any close from being one of our best wingers.

He plays best with Koivu, so put him there. Higgins's game is much more developed, he can be useful on other lines adapting to his linemates.
Lats needs a playmaker and has chemistry with Koivu, there's no doubt about that. So why insist on not putting him there?..Because S.Kost is better?..Higgins?..A.Kost??..That's absurd.
You don't make lines with the best 3players on 1st, 4-6 on 2nd, 7-9 on 3rd.( Shot out to Beaker)
On a team that has offensive depth, you make 3trios that can be effective.

Right now, Plekanec-Kovalev-S.Kost-A.Kost-Higgins are all more skilled than Lats, but are they playing better than him??..No they're not. Yet they keep getting more Ice Time, and PP IT.

If Koivu/Tang/Higgy was amazing, and Plek/A.Kost/Kovy was anything close to the line they were last season, then there wouldn't be any debate. But right now, those lines are not working. If it weren't for our grinders, we would have lost all of our last 3-4 Games.

It's not about who's better, that's quite the dumb argument. As dumb as ''Im stronger than you because I'm taller" attitude.

As for Dagenais, other than their size, there's nothing to compare.
Dagenais was almost 30 when he last played in Mtl. He played in NJ, FLA and MTL. He had 1 decent season in his career, at 26 with 17G. Lats at 21 already has more NHL experience and pretty much the same Goal Total.

Pierre also had nothing going for him other than his shot.
Lats, like him or not, does have some skills.

They're just so many differences between the two, I can't believe I actually have to explain myself.

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Old
12-02-2008, 01:30 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Frogurt View Post
Really? You think a guy who's 21 can already have his career potential assessed?

Look at Guy Lafleur's stats in his first 3 years (he was 22 by the end of the 3rd).

1971-72 Montreal Canadiens NHL 73 29 35 64
1972-73 Montreal Canadiens NHL 70 28 27 55
1973-74 Montreal Canadiens NHL 73 21 35 56

Hell, Lafleur even regressed from his first to third season.

Clearly a bust...

21 is extremely young. That he's even in the NHL is impressive enough at this age.

That people are so quick to criticize him and give up on him is flabbergasting.

PS: The first person who says I'm an idiot for comparing Latendresse to Lafleur gets a kick in the nuts from the common sense police.
Yeah, 21 is young but what i meant is that people always says something like Latendresse is still young, he is still learning or he is getting better. Does he?

Like i said, did he shown any sign of amelioration in his play since that great camp he had? I remember on that camp, he was hitting, skating hard, got his nose dirty but seriously, i dont think he has shown some amelioration in his play. He said that he was much faster this season, i didnt even notice it. He said he is playing better defensively because he is +3 this season, but i havent notice that he really is better defensively.

Seriously, i really dont know what to expect with Latendresse. What kind of player will he become. Will he become a 30 goals scorers or a power foward a la Tkachuk, Holmstrom or Bertuzzi? What exactly is he good at to deserve to play on our first line regularly like some members here is insisting to.

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12-02-2008, 01:44 AM
  #32
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I don't know, lets use him in a shootout and we'll see.

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12-02-2008, 01:57 AM
  #33
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Lucic has more of an impact to his team than Gui does on the Habs. If Lats misses a game, he's not really missed. If he's in the lineup... not that big of a change; which is EXACTLY why he constantly gets dicked around the lines. If he was that important he would have solidified a permanent position on the roster, but he hasn't and it's been 3 years almost and we still dunno wtf this kid is all about.

Lucic on the other hand is a big loss to his team if he's out of the lineup, and a big help if he's in it.

Gui has more talent, but talent alone means nothing. I brought up Ryder because he could score but that doesn't mean ****. Ryder had little impact on the team. Lucic, even if he doesn't score, is still useful in various other facets. He's also gaining a scoring touch so he's not all that bad.

Is Gui more talented? Yes

Is he as important to his team as Lucic? Definitely not, and likely never will be.

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12-02-2008, 02:13 AM
  #34
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I don't know if Lucic is more skilled than Latendresse however, Lucic will be a better player. Latendresse can score more goals, and more points but at the end of the day, Lucic actually makes an impact on a game. Latendresse is invisible most of the time, even when he scores. It's not a bash to him, it's just Lucic makes more of an impact. Latendresse lacks a mean streak or any type of passion to lay a guy out. It looks like he does it because it's asked of him, not because he truly sees a need to tire the opposition.

Gui is a big guy with a skilled player's mentality, Lucic is a big guy with a physical player's mentality. Difference is, while both are surely capable of physically dominating a game, only one has a power forward's mentality to match the physical attributes.

That being said, I like Latendresse. He hits, he scores every now and then, he's improving defensively. The only thing is, as people say certain offensive forwards are complentary offensive players, Latendresse is a complementary physical player. He lacks the instinct to dominate a game physically and will never be a true power forward.

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12-02-2008, 06:40 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 100th View Post
first season ;

Lucic 8 goals
Latendresse 16 goals .

Lucic is more flashy , but is he better than Latendresse ? no
Excuse me? Lucic plays a regular 1st line shift on the best team in the eastern conference. Latendresse is playing on a struggling team, if he stood up and played some decent hockey he could get a spot on the top two tandems which change just about every game.

At this point I think most hockey fans outside of Montreal would take Lucic, hes everything Montreal wanted in Latendresse.

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12-02-2008, 06:49 AM
  #36
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Excuse me? Lucic plays a regular 1st line shift on the best team in the eastern conference. Latendresse is playing on a struggling team, if he stood up and played some decent hockey he could get a spot on the top two tandems which change just about every game.

At this point I think most hockey fans outside of Montreal would take Lucic, hes everything Montreal wanted in Latendresse.

Lucic is an energy player playing with skilled guys. He's on pace for 50 points despite playing with a great playmaker like Savrd. His skating is his biggest asset, he has decent size but Lats is bigger at 225.

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12-02-2008, 07:18 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by zx81 View Post

Lats is not on the right line
I'm wondering where he would be the best fit? He's played on just about every line since he made the team. I don't recall who he played the best with. Was it with Koivu?

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Old
12-02-2008, 07:21 AM
  #38
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I'm wondering where he would be the best fit? He's played on just about every line since he made the team. I don't recall who he played the best with. Was it with Koivu?
I think his best matches are Saku Koivu, Sergei Kostitsyn and Kyle Chipchura. At least last year it was.

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12-02-2008, 07:40 AM
  #39
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Latendresse is going to the All Star game!!!!

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12-02-2008, 08:05 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
So why is it taking Lats so long to get stronger and get better over a player like Lucic?
because he has the intestinal fortitude of a 10 yr old boy. Who the hell calls a guy after a fight to make sure he's ok?

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12-02-2008, 08:22 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by zx81 View Post

Lats is not in the right league
I fixed it for you. You had a typo.

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12-02-2008, 08:30 AM
  #42
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because he has the intestinal fortitude of a 10 yr old boy. Who the hell calls a guy after a fight to make sure he's ok?
You're mixing two things but that says a lot about how not mean the kid is. He was wondering how Pratt was doing after the game talking to journalists. The phone thing is that he had an argument with André Roy and called him after to say that he didn't mean what he had said, hoping there wouldn't be anything between them.

Having said all of that, if the kid would be used properly. On a scoring line, as a sniper, with the gameplan to stick in front of the net and never moves, and play on the PP by being in front of the net.

Just wondering....can we actually use the players we have for the same reasons why we drafted them in the first place? Sure the player can evolve, can change a little, can be better, but the player cannot be another player....Then by using him for quite some time, and using his REAL strengths, if he can't do it, either you change his role or you trade him.

We lost so many guys by not using them properly to see them flourish elsewhere, no need to do it again.


Last edited by Whitesnake: 12-02-2008 at 09:29 AM.
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Old
12-02-2008, 08:32 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
He brought up the goal comparison because someone mentioned how Lucic is that much better than Lats, when he isn't.
Therefore it was justified to bring up stats.

Ryder and Datsyuk have absolutely nothing to do with this.

Lats hits, he can score, can deke, can do pretty much all the things Lucic does except he's slower and less of a pest.

Lats has good potential, but he won't magically blossom by playing with Lang or Lapierre.
We know he can be effective with Koivu, but he's not used there.
Claude Julien knows Lucic might not necessarily deserve to play on top line more than a few players, but he knows Milan can be much more useful to his team on top line with Savard, so he puts him there.

It's about getting the most out of your 12Forwards to best benefit the team.
Lats has a great first 8Games, getting 7pts. He plays 2 average ones, not bad ones just average and he gets demoted. Gets paired with Lang a few games, some with Lapierre, nothing that makes him look too good to nobody's surprise.
Our team struggles during a game, so in the 3rd period he's put back on with Koivu and Tanguay. On his first shift back, he scores but Hartnell moves the net so the goal is disallowed. Next game, he's back down.

I'm quite fed up of hearing about Lats, the kid is playing decent and Kovalev, Higgins, Plekanec, A.Kost, Lang should all get criticized before him.
Put him with Koivu and Tanguay, I'm sure he'll do good but that won't be enough to stop the haters. They will always come back with remarks such as ''Higgins would have had more pts'' or something like that.

Lucic is not better than Lats. He can fight and skate better, but he doesn't have more potential.
Lats has never consistently played with the player that would get the most out of him. Lucic is playing with Savard.

As for the Dagenais comparison, that's beyond pathetic.
In the words of the great Homer J. Simpson, "...you're living in a world of make-believe! With flowers and bells and leprechauns and magic frogs with funny little hats."
The main reason why Latendresse is still on this roster is because he's a local boy!
To quote Bob McKenzie: "It doesn't take a rocket sergeon to figure that out!"

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12-02-2008, 08:33 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
.


Lats hits, he can score, can deke, can do pretty much all the things Lucic does except he's slower and less of a pest.
We're not talking about what Lats does on your video game NHL 2009. We're talking about what he does on the ice in the NHL.

So don't bring your xbox 360 into the discussion.

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12-02-2008, 09:14 AM
  #45
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Taking shots at Lats when you have a Chris Higgins the magician that has disapeared in the last couple games, you can't be more biased, can't you ?

At least, try, with some perspective, to understand that Lats is still young (yes 21 years old is young), that he's still defining his style as an NHLer. The outcome might be a bust or not, just give it time.

That's the same situation with S. Kost. Even if he's more versatile, Sergei is struggling as much as Lats lately, and I don't see any thread 'bash S. Kost.'

If bashing Lats is 'okay' for you, while giving his teammates some slack (those who are struggling), that's BS really.

Higgins, S. Kost., Lang, Plek., Lats are all in the same boat right now, they have to step up.

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12-02-2008, 09:15 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Kalcon View Post
In the words of the great Homer J. Simpson, "...you're living in a world of make-believe! With flowers and bells and leprechauns and magic frogs with funny little hats."
The main reason why Latendresse is still on this roster is because he's a local boy!
To quote Bob McKenzie: "It doesn't take a rocket sergeon to figure that out!"
The whole "local" thing is ********. If they were that concerned with locals they'd draft more than one a year(none last year).

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12-02-2008, 09:19 AM
  #47
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It's hard with Guillaume. At his two first training camp he was awesome. But he never played the same game after the DiMaio's hit. And you know he lacks any kind of mean streak when he says in an interview after kicking someone ass in a fight that he don't like hurting people.

After a Detroit game, he says that he saw Holmstrom play, he studied tape of him (don't know if what he said was true) and he should play like him. But the problem is that he never go in front of the net at even strenght. I'm sure he don't like getting the punishment in front of the net.

If he could find an identity, it would be a good beginning. I would like him to be in the Lucic's mold, but it's too unlikely. I just don't see where he could excel because as some people already said, he's just average-to-good in everything. He stands out in nothing.

If he could just get pissed off out there and make a statement, show that you want to win (to be fair, he's not the only one.)

Hey there's still time, only 21 years old. The Dagenais comparaison is a joke.

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12-02-2008, 09:24 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalcon View Post
In the words of the great Homer J. Simpson, "...you're living in a world of make-believe! With flowers and bells and leprechauns and magic frogs with funny little hats."
The main reason why Latendresse is still on this roster is because he's a local boy!
To quote Bob McKenzie: "It doesn't take a rocket sergeon to figure that out!"
Gimme a break please, I could start threads like this one for almost half the team, comparing their season beginning with the scrubbiest scrubs. This is nothing more than pure hate of the guy because he is what he is, a local boy, a french canadian.

'Chipchura is better than Lapierre, Begin is finished, Lats isn't a good prospect, Bouillon is an AHLer, Buyout Dandy plz, Breezer isn't better than O'Byrne' This is all the BS that comes from you pathetic fanbase, just because of the name they have in the back. It can't be more obvious.

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12-02-2008, 09:25 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by MCMario View Post
Taking shots at Lats when you have a Chris Higgins the magician that has disapeared in the last couple games, you can't be more biased, can't you ?

At least, try, with some perspective, to understand that Lats is still young (yes 21 years old is young), that he's still defining his style as an NHLer. The outcome might be a bust or not, just give it time.

That's the same situation with S. Kost. Even if he's more versatile, Sergei is struggling as much as Lats lately, and I don't see any thread 'bash S. Kost.'

If bashing Lats is 'okay' for you, while giving his teammates some slack (those who are struggling), that's BS really.

Higgins, S. Kost., Lang, Plek., Lats are all in the same boat right now, they have to step up.
You can add Tanguay to that group, he's been pretty ineffective after his first 10-12 games.

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12-02-2008, 09:25 AM
  #50
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What the hell is a rocket sergeon?

I didn't know rocket's were human.

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