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Is Guillaume the next Pierre Dagenais?

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Old
12-02-2008, 09:27 AM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCMario View Post
Taking shots at Lats when you have a Chris Higgins the magician that has disapeared in the last couple games, you can't be more biased, can't you ?

At least, try, with some perspective, to understand that Lats is still young (yes 21 years old is young), that he's still defining his style as an NHLer. The outcome might be a bust or not, just give it time.

That's the same situation with S. Kost. Even if he's more versatile, Sergei is struggling as much as Lats lately, and I don't see any thread 'bash S. Kost.'

If bashing Lats is 'okay' for you, while giving his teammates some slack (those who are struggling), that's BS really.

Higgins, S. Kost., Lang, Plek., Lats are all in the same boat right now, they have to step up.
You don't need a thread to bash Sergei,you just need to listen to Benoit Brunet that clown that he is and also CKAC.

Saturday Kostitsyn's penalties Brunet ripped him but when Guillaume took one,it was a smart penalty..... sure...

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Old
12-02-2008, 09:32 AM
  #52
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What the hell is a rocket sergeon?
It's almost as good as a Pope that ***** in the woods.

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12-02-2008, 09:33 AM
  #53
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I like Lats, but anyone who for a moment thinks that Lats is in the same company as Lucic is dreaming. Lucic is far and away a better player-- he's got star potential to him. Lats has yet to demonstrate that he'll be a top 6 forward. Lucic plays with Savard because he can skate, make plays, and keep up with him. When has Lats ever put on a strong/dominating performance (over say 5 consecutive games) even when he's played on the top 2 lines.

C'mon, if you were offered Lucic for Lats straight-up, you wouldn't flinch (smile excluded).

A more genuine comparison: Lucic vs Pacioretty (in say 3-5 years).

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Old
12-02-2008, 09:35 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenForum View Post
I like Lats, but anyone who for a moment thinks that Lats is in the same company as Lucic is dreaming. Lucic is far and away a better player-- he's got star potential to him. Lats has yet to demonstrate that he'll be a top 6 forward. Lucic plays with Savard because he can skate, make plays, and keep up with him. When has Lats ever put on a strong/dominating performance (over say 5 consecutive games) even when he's played on the top 2 lines.

C'mon, if you were offered Lucic for Lats straight-up, you wouldn't flinch (smile excluded).

A more genuine comparison: Lucic vs Pacioretty (in say 3-5 years).
pre season when he has played against b teams

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Old
12-02-2008, 09:38 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by BadKiwi View Post
I think his best matches are Saku Koivu, Sergei Kostitsyn and Kyle Chipchura. At least last year it was.
Yeah, I think he played well with Koivu too. Maybe putting him there again to get him going might help.

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Old
12-02-2008, 09:43 AM
  #56
Pierre Dagenais
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Not even close to Dagenais.

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Old
12-02-2008, 09:44 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
A Lucic VS. Latendresse comparaison would be interesting.
that would be a way Latedresse could make a named for himself. Go Tender,challenge Lucic. I think he could fair well. He hits hard also. I like it alot

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Old
12-02-2008, 09:44 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
The whole "local" thing is ********. If they were that concerned with locals they'd draft more than one a year(none last year).
I've tried to look at this whole Latendresse situation from every possible angle and the only logical conclusion that I come to is that he receives special treatment because he is from Quebec. Don't get me wrong... I'd love to se this guy develop into the player that some in here think he's going to be but in all honesty I just don't think that he possesses the skillset and the characteristics to do so.
He hasn't shown any of the special attributes that solidifies him as the power forward that many in the French media have annoited him as. He has been given ample opportunities to prove his worth but has dissappointed each time.
He receives a repreive from the french media and fans who sing his praises and keep telling everyone to remain patient and let him develop but in the same voice they want to run Sergei Kostitsyn out of town. It's this double standard attitude that adds fuel to the fire.

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Old
12-02-2008, 09:50 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalcon View Post
He receives a repreive from the french media and fans who sing his praises and keep telling everyone to remain patient and let him develop but in the same voice they want to run Sergei Kostitsyn out of town. It's this double standard attitude that adds fuel to the fire.
You're talking nonsense. There's no favouritism in the press. Lats is a superstar in the making and S. Kostitsyn is just another hack foreigner on the make.

C'mon get with the program.

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Old
12-02-2008, 09:52 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalcon View Post
I've tried to look at this whole Latendresse situation from every possible angle and the only logical conclusion that I come to is that he receives special treatment because he is from Quebec. Don't get me wrong... I'd love to se this guy develop into the player that some in here think he's going to be but in all honesty I just don't think that he possesses the skillset and the characteristics to do so.
He hasn't shown any of the special attributes that solidifies him as the power forward that many in the French media have annoited him as. He has been given ample opportunities to prove his worth but has dissappointed each time.
He receives a repreive from the french media and fans who sing his praises and keep telling everyone to remain patient and let him develop but in the same voice they want to run Sergei Kostitsyn out of town. It's this double standard attitude that adds fuel to the fire.
I agree with you there. But like Tender, he needs to pick it up

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Old
12-02-2008, 10:09 AM
  #61
Kriss E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalcon View Post
In the words of the great Homer J. Simpson, "...you're living in a world of make-believe! With flowers and bells and leprechauns and magic frogs with funny little hats."
The main reason why Latendresse is still on this roster is because he's a local boy!
To quote Bob McKenzie: "It doesn't take a rocket sergeon to figure that out!"
Local boy?..ahhh the never dying argument..gotta love it.

What about S.Kost??..he's certainly been playing amazing hockey since the beginning of the season. I'm sure he hasn't been scratched yet because he's a local boy...oh wait..

I'm sure that's the reasoning for Carbo/Gainey to keep Lats.
'' -Bob..he suuuuucks..get him out..
- I can't Guy...the guy is quebecor, I have to keep him here his entire career''

Ya, that makes a whoooooole lot of sense.

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Old
12-02-2008, 10:13 AM
  #62
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Unanswered question:

Have Latendresse shown any sign of amelioration since camp of 06-07?

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Old
12-02-2008, 10:16 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenForum View Post
I like Lats, but anyone who for a moment thinks that Lats is in the same company as Lucic is dreaming. Lucic is far and away a better player-- he's got star potential to him. Lats has yet to demonstrate that he'll be a top 6 forward. Lucic plays with Savard because he can skate, make plays, and keep up with him. When has Lats ever put on a strong/dominating performance (over say 5 consecutive games) even when he's played on the top 2 lines.

C'mon, if you were offered Lucic for Lats straight-up, you wouldn't flinch (smile excluded).

A more genuine comparison: Lucic vs Pacioretty (in say 3-5 years).
huh? Lucic has star potential? He's leetching off Savard and is still nowhere close to a point per game.

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Old
12-02-2008, 10:17 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalcon View Post
I've tried to look at this whole Latendresse situation from every possible angle and the only logical conclusion that I come to is that he receives special treatment because he is from Quebec. Don't get me wrong... I'd love to se this guy develop into the player that some in here think he's going to be but in all honesty I just don't think that he possesses the skillset and the characteristics to do so.
He hasn't shown any of the special attributes that solidifies him as the power forward that many in the French media have annoited him as. He has been given ample opportunities to prove his worth but has dissappointed each time.
He receives a repreive from the french media and fans who sing his praises and keep telling everyone to remain patient and let him develop but in the same voice they want to run Sergei Kostitsyn out of town. It's this double standard attitude that adds fuel to the fire.
Fortunately, the FRENCH MEDIA are not the Habs Scouting team nor are they experts on hockey talent.

Lats never was a Power Forward. Of course you're disappointed if you expected that from him, but that's you having too much expectations out of the kid.

Lats has been one of the most criticized player in the Media over the past years. S.Kost has been playing like crap lately and he's getting is fair share of criticism, what do you expect?
How many times was he made fun of 110% and La Zone and RDS??..You should have watched more TV over the last years.

Look at Kovalev, people are saying he has to pick it up but are not criticizing him yet like they were 2years ago.

We can pin point every single player on this team and find players getting special treatment at certain times.

Lats has had regular linemates for maybe 20games at most. He keeps getting moved around, was scratched last year, etc..
No freaking surprise he's not too consistent..
Keep him with Koivu for a good number of games and you'll see he's better than Lucic

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Old
12-02-2008, 10:18 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
Unanswered question:

Have Latendresse shown any sign of amelioration since camp of 06-07?
Not really. Was he put in situations to improve? Was he given a role where he could succeed? Was he given the same chances than the ones who did improve?

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Old
12-02-2008, 10:21 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalcon View Post
I've tried to look at this whole Latendresse situation from every possible angle and the only logical conclusion that I come to is that he receives special treatment because he is from Quebec. Don't get me wrong... I'd love to se this guy develop into the player that some in here think he's going to be but in all honesty I just don't think that he possesses the skillset and the characteristics to do so.
He hasn't shown any of the special attributes that solidifies him as the power forward that many in the French media have annoited him as. He has been given ample opportunities to prove his worth but has dissappointed each time.
He receives a repreive from the french media and fans who sing his praises and keep telling everyone to remain patient and let him develop but in the same voice they want to run Sergei Kostitsyn out of town. It's this double standard attitude that adds fuel to the fire.
When has he received special treatment? As soon as he has a bad game or 2 he is suddenly with Lapierre and Begin. How is that special treatment? If anything Carbo has been tougher on him than S.Kost, Higgins and others.

He has the same type of features that Shanahan, Leclair and others had. What did they have that he lacks at the same age?

The Habs were too quick to move Leclair and got burnt, Vancouver was too quick to give up on Neely...and some of you guys want to risk the same mistake.

Show me someone that said S.Kost should be run out of town. His attitude, play and bad penalities should maybe get him a stint in Hamilton.

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Old
12-02-2008, 10:38 AM
  #67
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Guillaume's story is unfortunate. The reality is he has good hands, is big and strong, but he's not a great skater and doesn't have much of a mean streak. There's still room for players like him in the NHL but it's not a given and you can't become established quickly.

He came on the scene at a time when there was no bona fide French-Canadian star on the team. He was overhyped (probably partly for that reason). Now Tanguay's here but it doesn't matter anymore. The need for self-justification by those who overhyped him seems to motivate them to constantly demand more icetime under the guise of «fairness» or anything else they drum up. Maybe they think he won't make it otherwise.

Unfortunately, It comes with a parralel denigration of anyone that can be a menace to Guillaume's icetime. Akost before, now Skost and Higgins, maybe D'Agostini or someone else in the future?

Was there even one media talking head who voiced an opinion that defended Grabovski? No they all felt Carbo hadn't been hard enough with him and they all felt he should have been shipped out of town sooner? I'm not trying to defend Grabovski, It's that in most other subjects you have at least some minority dissent.

Is there any influential media forum where you have parallel hype for Skost? I know some poster say: ...promoters of Latendresse are just «jokers»... they don't represent the mainstream views...everyone knows it's just a show, etc... Well let's look at the equation:

Zero promotion for Latendresse (by objective journalists (ex: Mathias Brunet)) + Lots of promotion (by media showmen)= Some promotion.

Zero promotion for Skost (by objective journalists) + Zero promotion (by media showmen)= Zero promotion.

There are probably people that hate Guillaume because they don't like French Canadians, but I think most people that do are 1-French-Canadians 2-Sick to their stomach by the media embarrassing themselves on this issue. And the whole situation is an unfortunate double-edged sword for Latendresse who didn't ask for this in the first place.

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Old
12-02-2008, 11:45 AM
  #68
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Fortunately, the FRENCH MEDIA are not the Habs Scouting team nor are they experts on hockey talent.
The French media may not be experts but their tactics add much undeserved pressure and unrealistic expectations from our young players which leads to a stunt in growth and development as hockey players. It seems that with Lats he's been given a longer leash that some others because of the fact that he is a young, french-canadian. It's unfair but its a fact of life within the Canadiens hockey club.

Quote:
Lats never was a Power Forward. Of course you're disappointed if you expected that from him, but that's you having too much expectations out of the kid.
I, for one, most certainly do not have too much expectatations of the kid. He has never shown me anything to get excited about. I hope he proves me wrong because if it helps the Habs chances of winning then I'm al for it. But right now, I feel that there are better options in Hamilton or to be aquired via tradied. I mean how long do you wait for this guy to become Cam Neely or Tod Bertuzzi? If by comparrison those guys took longer to develop, then why in the hell didn't the Habs' organization let him learn hids trade in the minors? Maybe the idea of a french kid playing in La Belle Province for Les Gorieaux had something to do with it?

Quote:
Lats has been one of the most criticized player in the Media over the past years. S.Kost has been playing like crap lately and he's getting is fair share of criticism, what do you expect?
How many times was he made fun of 110% and La Zone and RDS??..You should have watched more TV over the last years.
S. Kost has an aweful lot more upside that Latendresse. Hopefully he shown more patience than Grabovoski.

Quote:
Look at Kovalev, people are saying he has to pick it up but are not criticizing him yet like they were 2years ago.
They're not?

Quote:
We can pin point every single player on this team and find players getting special treatment at certain times.
I agree, but it's usually because they deserve it.

Quote:
Lats has had regular linemates for maybe 20games at most. He keeps getting moved around, was scratched last year, etc..
No freaking surprise he's not too consistent..
Keep him with Koivu for a good number of games and you'll see he's better than Lucic
He keeps getting moved around because he's not producing!!! Ever think that he is the cause of his own demise?
So, wouldn you trade Lats for Lucic straight up? Judging from your words you would not. I'm not so sure that many of those "hockey experts" you talk of would agree with you. Now that's a case of homeboy favouritism if I ever saw it!

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12-02-2008, 12:18 PM
  #69
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Let's take off our Hab rose-colored glasses for a sec (in reference to the guy who said Lucic has no star quality): Lucic is going to be a star, not on the Vinny Lecav level or anything like that, but he will pot 30 goal seasons on a regular basis, not to mention his physical presence. He was great with Team Canada at the WJC and he will only get better. You don't put a 19 year-old on the top line with Savard unless he's that promising, now included. Lucic-Savard-Kessel is one of the top lines in the league, there's no arguing it (each one possesses distinct talents and together they are a force.)

We can only hope MaxPac develops in a similar fashion-- Lucic is the type of player every team desires.

As for Lats and French media favoritism, there may be something there but let's remember we are in Quebec and there's nothing wrong with the media (to a sensible degree) playing Lats up. That said, two things: 1) many in the French media (Gaston Therrien being a good example) call out Lats when he's underperforming and 2) I've always been impressed with how well Lats handles himself in the media-- he's cool and level-headed, a team player, and he tries to keep the media grounded. Now if only his perfomance on the ice were as sweet as his ability to deal with the media.

Lats is a project: we need to give him 5 years. Perhaps he should have spent some time in Hamilton, but he hasn't so we need to live with the reality that he's developing at the NHL. I can definitely see Lats becoming a consistent 20-25 goal scorer come year 5 and beyond. Like everyone else, I just wish he would plant his ass in front of the net more and let his hands do the rest. That's where he'll score 90% of his goals.

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12-02-2008, 12:54 PM
  #70
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[QUOTE=Kalcon;16605875]
Quote:

1-The French media may not be experts but their tactics add much undeserved pressure and unrealistic expectations from our young players which leads to a stunt in growth and development as hockey players. It seems that with Lats he's been given a longer leash that some others because of the fact that he is a young, french-canadian. It's unfair but its a fact of life within the Canadiens hockey club.

2-I, for one, most certainly do not have too much expectatations of the kid. He has never shown me anything to get excited about. I hope he proves me wrong because if it helps the Habs chances of winning then I'm al for it. But right now, I feel that there are better options in Hamilton or to be aquired via tradied. I mean how long do you wait for this guy to become Cam Neely or Tod Bertuzzi? If by comparrison those guys took longer to develop, then why in the hell didn't the Habs' organization let him learn hids trade in the minors? Maybe the idea of a french kid playing in La Belle Province for Les Gorieaux had something to do with it?

3-S. Kost has an aweful lot more upside that Latendresse. Hopefully he shown more patience than Grabovoski.

4-He keeps getting moved around because he's not producing!!! Ever think that he is the cause of his own demise?
So, wouldn you trade Lats for Lucic straight up? Judging from your words you would not. I'm not so sure that many of those "hockey experts" you talk of would agree with you. Now that's a case of homeboy favouritism if I ever saw it!
1- With Lats a longer leash?..If anything that leash is shorter. Like I said, it doesn't seem like you know much about the Mtl Media. They've been anything but favoring the kid. The only time I can think of them backing him up is after his training camp when he got sent back down to Juniors.
He didn't even catch a break in his first season. It took him around 10Games to score his first goal(was already getting criticized for being over hyped) and then was ridiculed by some of the media because of the ugliness of his first goal(Even Patrick Roy made fun of him).
So I don't see what long leash this guy has had....you couldn't be more wrong about this.

2- There are better options in AHL?..maybe. That's yet to be seen nor proven. Also, there are a bunch of players on this team that are playing worse than Lats. I don't care if they have more raw skills, they're not using them and they should be sent down or scratched before him.
As for why didn't we make him play an AHL season first, well that's kind of too late, no point in discussing that. But let's wait and see. MaxPac had a similar camp as Lats's first one, both of them were sent down. If MaxPac comes back next camp and is even better than his previous one, he makes the team...will it be because of his french presence???..No right, cuz he ain't french, so it'll be thanks to his talent. Why is it different with Lats?..The kid had great camps, he deserved his spot.
But it doesn't matter anyways cuz he's with us now.
He's most effective on with Koivu, his development would benefit a great deal from playing with guys like Koivu/Tanguay, but in his 2previous seasons, he's only played a few games here and there with Koivu, and the same thing seems to happen this year.
No wonder he's slow to develop. Lappy or Smokes or Lang are not the guys that will help him much.

3- Nobody is saying to get rid of S.Kost. I think he should be placed with Plek/A.Kost and stay there for 10-20Games to let them find that chemistry. But he hasn't been playing better than Lats, and if you'd scratch Lats before S.Kost, then who's getting the fair treatment??..

4- Not producing?..He had 7pts in 8GP, Higgins comes back. Lats loses his PP Time right away. He then plays the next 2games still with Koivu, he's ok, not bad just okay. Higgins doesn't look too good with Lang, he isn't producing anything.
But after that, Lats gets put on with Lang and Higgins with Koivu.
Sure, that's totally well deserved.
Obviously it doesn't work, just like everybody could predict and he's dropped on 4th a bit. Higgins has 1 or 2 good games with Koivu, then disappears. What happens after??..Higgins is put with Plek/Kovalev and instead of bringing Lats back up to play with Koivu, KOSTOPOULOS gets put there instead.
Sure, he's so getting a special treatment.

As for Lucic, today, I'd do this deal of course. I still think Lats would produce more than Lucic if he were centered by Savard or even Bergeron for that matter. I think he has more offensive potential than Lucic but Milan would give our top lines more grit which couldn't hurt us at the moment.
I've said it many times before, I don't even like Lats but unlike many here I'm able to stay neutral and sane on a matter regardless of if I like a player or not.

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12-02-2008, 01:40 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by GoldenForum View Post
C'mon, if you were offered Lucic for Lats straight-up, you wouldn't flinch (smile excluded).
I would do more than flinch if offered a player with 14 goals in roughly 100 NHL games for a player who's scored more than that in each of his first two seasons. Like I said, if Lucic gets to 32 career goals after his first two seasons, he'll have been doing well.

Fights don't win hockey games. Goals do.

After your posts I think I need to upgrade Lucic from "somewhat overrated" to "ludicrously overrated". People are in love with the idea of Milan Lucic, but that is a subjective view that's not really all that related to his reality. There are many objective, perfectly rational ways to argue that Latendresse is actually the better player.

Not that Lucic is a bad player, that he doesn't have a ton of upside, and that what he's accomplished at his age isn't remarkable -- it just needs to be pointed out, when comparing him to Lats, that at the same age, it was Latendresse who had accomplished more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
Have Latendresse shown any sign of amelioration since camp of 06-07?
He's a lot less of a defensive liability.

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Old
12-02-2008, 01:51 PM
  #72
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Basically!!! Only Dagenais could skate and throw the odd body check....Latendresse can't do anything. I hope he's traded asap.

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12-02-2008, 01:55 PM
  #73
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I find the whole Guillaume situation is indirectly due to how the french media promotes him. How they for the most part have a hard time saying anything bad about Guillaume. Just view last night episode of 110%. One of the panelist was trying to point out what Guillaume needs to do in order to succeed in this league while all the other panelist tries to re-direct the topic of conversation to another player (Higgins, SKost, etc).

I have nothing against Guillaume but how the french media just tries to build him up to something that he's not is really annoying.

This is his contract year. He should be out there trying to improve his stats and not just his +/- numbers.
Link: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/?hubname=nhl-canadiens
He's supposed to be a shooter but why is it that he doesn't take that many shots on net. He's got 25 shots in 20 games. The only players on the team taking less shots on net are:
Steve Begin
Josh Gorges
Patrice Brisebois
Mathieu Dandenault
Francis Bouillon
Ryan O'Byne
Mike Komisarek
George Laraque
Matt D'Agostini
Kyle Chipcura

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Old
12-02-2008, 02:05 PM
  #74
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by limelight View Post
I find the whole Guillaume situation is indirectly due to how the french media promotes him. How they for the most part have a hard time saying anything bad about Guillaume. Just view last night episode of 110%. One of the panelist was trying to point out what Guillaume needs to do in order to succeed in this league while all the other panelist tries to re-direct the topic of conversation to another player (Higgins, SKost, etc).

I have nothing against Guillaume but how the french media just tries to build him up to something that he's not is really annoying.

This is his contract year. He should be out there trying to improve his stats and not just his +/- numbers.
Link: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/?hubname=nhl-canadiens
He's supposed to be a shooter but why is it that he doesn't take that many shots on net. He's got 25 shots in 20 games. The only players on the team taking less shots on net are:
Steve Begin
Josh Gorges
Patrice Brisebois
Mathieu Dandenault
Francis Bouillon
Ryan O'Byne
Mike Komisarek
George Laraque
Matt D'Agostini
Kyle Chipcura
I explained that the other day. When he was with Koivu and Tanguay for 10-11 games he had 1-6-7, he was not shooting enough, trying too hard to set up his linemates instead of shooting and going to the net like he did more with Lapierre/Begin and co. Maybe he needs Saku to tell him that he doesn't need to always pass it back to them every time he gets the puck.

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12-02-2008, 02:06 PM
  #75
Licou
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"Is Guillaume the next Pierre Dagenais?"

No...

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