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Next season: Satan, Sykora, Fedotenko, Gill, Boucher

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Old
12-01-2008, 11:25 PM
  #101
pensown
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
You realize a guy who is a mere powerplay QB in this league anymore is getting 4 million a year, right?

Your hate for Whitney is clouding rationale I think.
JTG32005 Please provide a rebuttal for this fiction chart

Show us how the penguins can be a better team next year than we are this year or were in the previous year with a few of our younger and more talented players recieving higher wages for their contributions to this team. The goal for the Pittsburgh Penguins is to win the Stanley Cup. Would Malkin's, Staal's, and Whitney's paid in advance expected talent provide the penguins with enough strength to not only get back to the cup but to be able to beat an even stronger Detriot team if not a very powerful San Jose team?

Talbot est1.4 - Crosby 8.7 - X
X Malkin 8.7 - X
Cooke 1.2 - Staal est4.5 - Kennedy .700
Dupuis 1.4 -X -Godard .750

Gonch 5
Whit 4
Orpik 3.75
Eaton 2
Letang .835
Gogo est2.5


Fleury 5.25
Curry .5

1mil injures or 13thoffensemen/7thdman

52.005 with Staal at 4.5, Gogo at 2.5, and Talbot at 1.4. Which are all reasonable.


4 spots to Fill

Lets say

Zig .750

52.755 and if the cap remains around the same...

You have 4 million dollars for 3 players to play wings for Crosby and Malkin

but let me guess.

You want Eaton and Dupuis gone so thats 3.4 mill but who is going to be our 6th dman? Scuds for 2? Gill for 2.5?

So maybe around 5-5.5 million for 3 wingers.
Or just put AHLers for our 6th to save pennies but also make our defense worse!!!


Last edited by pensown: 12-01-2008 at 11:31 PM.
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Old
12-01-2008, 11:31 PM
  #102
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Bargains bargains bargains. Everybody's a bargain on defense, so we can't move anyone.

Here's a novel idea...how about a $4 million bargain winger???

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12-02-2008, 02:41 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Bargains bargains bargains. Everybody's a bargain on defense, so we can't move anyone.

Here's a novel idea...how about a $4 million bargain winger???
Kovalchuck, he wants Cups, not dollars

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12-02-2008, 04:02 AM
  #104
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LOL at Scuds getting 2m. If it is going to cost more than 1.5m/yr to keep Scuderi, that's a big pass to me. Team's have training camp's for a reason, to assess where their prospect pool is at. This is why team's have mini camp's in the summer as well, to just get a feel for what is in store for the main camp in late summer/fall. There is a lot of the season left to be played.

Caputi, Jeffrey, Stone, Filewich, even Minard can start to wake up and realize that they have a shot at a spot on the team next year. I would rather lose the services of Dupuis and Eaton, as well as Scuderi if Gill is willing to re-sign at the same price. Sykora wanted to be a Penguin before he finally came and signed on the Pens, chances are if he wants to stay, he and Shero could work out a deal that would keep him on a team he is enjoying being on and has the best shot at winning another cup since he has chemistry with Geno.

Roster wise, for fun, let's say the team retains some of the guys that are worth keeping around and/or rather the ones that the team CAN keep around, for giggles let's say the UFA's and RFA's re-sign (again, ones that Shero feels he should keep around).

Talbot, Crosby, ________
______, Malkin, Sykora
Minard, Staal, Kennedy
Bissonnette, Zigomanis, Godard

That bottom 6 doesn't really freak me out so much, if Paul can work on his game as a forward in the AHL and realizes that he could again sneak into the NHL on the 4th line and this time become a full-time 4th liner, that could be a very good and cheap solution. Minard is a pretty responsible player, he's not absolute trash and Therrien might be reluctant to throw up him and down the roster like he does with Dupuis and Fedotenko.

Ok that might look bad to some or most of you but my point is, we do not have an inept GM that doesn't know what to do with the team. We lucked out big time with Shero, the team got a thinking man's GM, as well as a guy that is NOT a pushover or a guy that balks at trades when the going get's tough. He has resolve and faith in the team and makes moves accordingly.

When the off season comes around, we'll see how it goes down. People are busting their nut over this whole cap "might" go down crap. The past few years, the cap has gone up a pretty steady amount each year. This year, it might only go up a fraction. That's not something to freak out about. The big freak out is in the 2010 off season when the cap might actually go down a little if the economy doesn't give it's self a hefty dose of adrenaline to get pumping. This is why salary talk right now is retarded.

Yeah the team is winning without some key players, we can't whine about much since well, the team is winning. So we are like whiny brats, spoiled rich kids that whine about the stupidest things that if we saw another fan base whine about in a similar fashion, we would call them cry babies.

Slap yourselves and snap out of it.


Last edited by vcx*: 12-02-2008 at 04:12 AM.
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12-02-2008, 04:19 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Bargains bargains bargains. Everybody's a bargain on defense, so we can't move anyone.

Here's a novel idea...how about a $4 million bargain winger???
Shero found a bargain in Satan. By all accounts, he is on pace to put up a Sykora like season, which is basically another 50+ pt winger. Is that so bad for 3.5m? Look around the league and see how much other teams are paying for a top 6 winger and see how many stats they are on pace to put up.

At 3.5m, Shero found a solution. If he can move Eaton and Dupuis then promote Minard to a full time bottom 6 player, that's a little more to add, another 1m + the money freed up from Fedotenko's contract.

There are a load of talented players that are currently in a funk. I hope Cole shows flashes of himself but not enough to make his value too high for Shero to pick him up. At 3.5m for 1/yr, he can be a great pick up for Sid or Geno's line, as well as boosting his value and hitting the market and taking off to wherever he wants to go.

If the team has to do the 1yr signings for a bit till they draft a winger or a player from within the system emerges, so be it.

I think Jeffrey is going to be a huge surprise, just a gut feeling. He could be a top 6 winger a well as Caputi. Jeffrey has the size and the smarts to be a solid player, if he can get his skating up to snuff and start showing more of his scoring touch that we all know he has in the AHL, he could be a beast and a Gaustad or Stafford type of our own.

Again, I am not worried or panicking about the up coming off season and the cap. All I want Shero to do is sign Goligoski & Talbot to long term deals, if he wishes to deal Goli for a winger, having him locked up at a good price for a long term deal could boost his value quite a bit more given the current situation with teams and the economy. He could bring back a return that most of us thought he couldn't just for that reason, his play and if he is signed to a long term deal.

It is why I think Whitney's value is more than people want to admit on the main boards. He's young, he is signed to a great deal for a top 3 defenseman and it's long term. Teams will know he will be with them for a while and what he will make so it's not going to be something they are going to have to work around or whatever as they would have had to if Whits was on the market and a potential RFA or something.


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12-02-2008, 07:12 AM
  #106
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This thread makes me

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Old
12-02-2008, 10:00 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by pensown View Post
Yes dont anger the local Staal lovers. They will snap back very harshly.

Staal is VERY valuable to any team. We have the two best centers in the game and we are still are holding onto him even tohugh we have no wingers, he is that valuable.

I say keep him if he signs a cheaper deal around 3.5 a year for four years maybe 3-3-4-4. If he starts asking for 4-5.5 I say we have to trade him. Malkin,Talbot,Gogo, and Staal raises. The could be close to another 10million in cap.

Malkins 3.8 to 8.7 raise 4.9
Talbot .675 to est1.4 .750
Staal 2.2 to est4.5 2.3
Gogo .984 to est2.5 1.5

9.45 all estimations but thats a lot of added cap.

Still Have As UFAs

Scuds
Boucher
Gill
Satan
Sykora
Fedetenko
Zigomanis
Sabourin

There is no way Gogo gets 2.5M next contract. He hasn't proven THAT much people. Scuderi/Gill should not get a contract a penny of 1M if they do not accept that you let them leave. Hopefully Curry can provide a cheap backup.


If we play are cards right we will have 5-7M with a sykora resigning at 2M to find a winger or two. Not much but its doable. In two or three years is when we are going to once again have cap room.

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12-02-2008, 11:31 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by vcx View Post
LOL at Scuds getting 2m. If it is going to cost more than 1.5m/yr to keep Scuderi, that's a big pass to me. Team's have training camp's for a reason, to assess where their prospect pool is at. This is why team's have mini camp's in the summer as well, to just get a feel for what is in store for the main camp in late summer/fall. There is a lot of the season left to be played.

Caputi, Jeffrey, Stone, Filewich, even Minard can start to wake up and realize that they have a shot at a spot on the team next year. I would rather lose the services of Dupuis and Eaton, as well as Scuderi if Gill is willing to re-sign at the same price. Sykora wanted to be a Penguin before he finally came and signed on the Pens, chances are if he wants to stay, he and Shero could work out a deal that would keep him on a team he is enjoying being on and has the best shot at winning another cup since he has chemistry with Geno.

Roster wise, for fun, let's say the team retains some of the guys that are worth keeping around and/or rather the ones that the team CAN keep around, for giggles let's say the UFA's and RFA's re-sign (again, ones that Shero feels he should keep around).

Talbot, Crosby, ________
______, Malkin, Sykora
Minard, Staal, Kennedy
Bissonnette, Zigomanis, Godard

That bottom 6 doesn't really freak me out so much, if Paul can work on his game as a forward in the AHL and realizes that he could again sneak into the NHL on the 4th line and this time become a full-time 4th liner, that could be a very good and cheap solution. Minard is a pretty responsible player, he's not absolute trash and Therrien might be reluctant to throw up him and down the roster like he does with Dupuis and Fedotenko.

Ok that might look bad to some or most of you but my point is, we do not have an inept GM that doesn't know what to do with the team. We lucked out big time with Shero, the team got a thinking man's GM, as well as a guy that is NOT a pushover or a guy that balks at trades when the going get's tough. He has resolve and faith in the team and makes moves accordingly.

When the off season comes around, we'll see how it goes down. People are busting their nut over this whole cap "might" go down crap. The past few years, the cap has gone up a pretty steady amount each year. This year, it might only go up a fraction. That's not something to freak out about. The big freak out is in the 2010 off season when the cap might actually go down a little if the economy doesn't give it's self a hefty dose of adrenaline to get pumping. This is why salary talk right now is retarded.

Yeah the team is winning without some key players, we can't whine about much since well, the team is winning. So we are like whiny brats, spoiled rich kids that whine about the stupidest things that if we saw another fan base whine about in a similar fashion, we would call them cry babies.

Slap yourselves and snap out of it.
I don't disagree with your lines for next year but why have you kicked Matt Cooke to the curb? He's signed through next year and has found his niche on the third line.

As for Scuderi, I would pay him $2 million without blinking.

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12-02-2008, 01:40 PM
  #109
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Staal at $4.5M sends shivers down my spine..


Also, Scuderi for $2M? Give me a break. When you are in cap situation like the Penguins, you CANNOT afford to spend $2M for 5th/6th d-man.

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12-02-2008, 01:43 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
Staal at $4.5M sends shivers down my spine..


Also, Scuderi for $2M? Give me a break. When you are in cap situation like the Penguins, you CANNOT afford to spend $2M for 5th/6th d-man.
They are paying that for Gill, Eaton, Boucher...All make $2MM and over...

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12-02-2008, 01:51 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by KGpens View Post
They are paying that for Gill, Eaton, Boucher...All make $2MM and over...
Boucher and Gill are UFA's after this season.. and the Eaton signing is a joke IMO.

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12-02-2008, 01:57 PM
  #112
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I dont see why everyone thinks Gill is so essential for this team. They'll use terms like "big body to clear the crease" but I rarely ever see him actually use his big body to do so. He doesnt block that many shots, and he doesnt seem to hit much either. He is very slow and gets turned into a pylon really easy. He has zero offensive awareness and panics with the puck and throws it into the corner just to give it back to the other team whenever he touches the puck.

If he used his size more and sacrificed the body more and perhaps tried to get a low shot on goal from the point off, I would be a little more excited about him but I just don't see the craze about him.
Take out the height portion of this statement and you just described Scuderi as well. The only change is that Scuds blocks shot and Gill can be a major deterrent from the crease. All that said, I would be estatic if BOTH of them are gone next year.

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12-02-2008, 02:00 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by StrakaLangKovy View Post
Trade Staal to Chicago for Havlat and Brouwer

wait salaries dont work

Staal for Brouwer, Skille and more.

yay
Loving Staal to Chicago more and more each day.

Skille
Brouwer
Byfuglien
Ladd

I would love to snag any three of these kids for Staal and Eaton/Gill/ or Scuds

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12-02-2008, 02:15 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by KGpens View Post
They are paying that for Gill, Eaton, Boucher...All make $2MM and over...
does not mean they should...

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12-02-2008, 02:19 PM
  #115
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Take out the height portion of this statement and you just described Scuderi as well. The only change is that Scuds blocks shot and Gill can be a major deterrent from the crease. All that said, I would be estatic if BOTH of them are gone next year.
I equate Scuderi more with Eaton than with Gill, except Scuderi is mildly more talented.

I don't know how much of a deterent Gill is in the crease since the rules don't allow you to forcibly move people/interfere with them when they are screening, and having his big size tends to add to the screen. My problem with Gill is that he just doesnt flat out level people when it is legal to do so.

I'd like us to keep Scuderi... at similar to what he is making now, but that is the crucial element. I think I would draw the line at 1.2 mill on Scuds, anything over that and I'd let him walk considering he'd likely be the 7th man and with our lack of talent on the wings we cant afford to be wasting cap space in the press box.

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12-02-2008, 02:22 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by BatonRougePen25 View Post
Loving Staal to Chicago more and more each day.

Skille
Brouwer
Byfuglien
Ladd

I would love to snag any three of these kids for Staal and Eaton/Gill/ or Scuds
I don't want to let Staal go unless it's for a single player that has the same level of talent/upside that he does, not an assortment of players who are a step or two below him but add up to being more.

We already have an assortment of bottom 6'rs who could possibly play in the top 6. Both on our immediate lineup, and in our system.

I would've liked to see Kessel for Staal earlier in this season but now that Kessel has really started to break out I don't see that happening at all now.

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12-02-2008, 02:45 PM
  #117
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JTG32005 Please provide a rebuttal for this fiction chart
Am I supposed to know what a "fiction chart" is? Because I don't

Quote:
Show us how the penguins can be a better team next year than we are this year or were in the previous year with a few of our younger and more talented players recieving higher wages for their contributions to this team. The goal for the Pittsburgh Penguins is to win the Stanley Cup. Would Malkin's, Staal's, and Whitney's paid in advance expected talent provide the penguins with enough strength to not only get back to the cup but to be able to beat an even stronger Detriot team if not a very powerful San Jose team?

Talbot est1.4 - Crosby 8.7 - X
X Malkin 8.7 - X
Cooke 1.2 - Staal est4.5 - Kennedy .700
Dupuis 1.4 -X -Godard .750

Gonch 5
Whit 4
Orpik 3.75
Eaton 2
Letang .835
Gogo est2.5


Fleury 5.25
Curry .5

1mil injures or 13thoffensemen/7thdman

52.005 with Staal at 4.5, Gogo at 2.5, and Talbot at 1.4. Which are all reasonable.


4 spots to Fill

Lets say

Zig .750

52.755 and if the cap remains around the same...

You have 4 million dollars for 3 players to play wings for Crosby and Malkin

but let me guess.

You want Eaton and Dupuis gone so thats 3.4 mill but who is going to be our 6th dman? Scuds for 2? Gill for 2.5?

So maybe around 5-5.5 million for 3 wingers.
Or just put AHLers for our 6th to save pennies but also make our defense worse!!!
Oye...

How about some of those defensemen in WB? Engelland, Lovejoy, Richmond...maybe one of those as a 6. There's always free agency. Dupuis and Eaton can be traded...not necessity, but they can be for some wiggle. Goligoski is not going to get 2.5 million how it stands now. His defense is way too suspect for my liking. 1.5-2 if he keeps up this pace. Staal has been rumored to have been offered a deal for 3.5-4 for 3 or 4 years. So you're off there. If you have to, you can cut a little off the injuries and call up's money that's set aside. Maybe like .750. And Fleury is at 5...not 5.25

I have said this before, with the economics of North America they way they are right now, it's going to be slim pickens for everyone next year. It just is. The only teams who are going to get superstar players are the ones with a lot of money coming off the books. This team isn't in a dire situation with aging vets and their window to win is closing fast. If it were, I'd say deal Whitney, let's get that winger and take our last shot at glory. You know, and I know, this team is here for 4 or 5 more years.

What happens if you trade Whitney then Gonchar doesn't resign. All of a sudden in 2 years, you just lost two 50+ point defensemen over something foolish. If I believed a package for Whitney would net something unbelievable, I would go over to his condo in the Strip and pack his bags for him. The reality is, you probably won't get a guy to come in and help right away if you trade Whitney alone. Now do you package Staal? I'm not so sure you do.

I still stand that we should just wait for things to play out until Gonchar's contract runs out. By then this economic mess will be cleared up, and the Pens will have quite a bit of cap to work with. This team wasn't built on impatience, and this team won't win a Cup with impatience. Shero's a level headed guy (thankfully), and will not do any knee jerk moves. Trading away a 25 year old, potential perennial 50+ point defenseman, who is locked in at a great number for a good number of years, is just that.

If you want how I see things breaking down, look in the other threads I have posted it in. It's not worth my time trying to reincarnate it here. Boy...problems would be solved if we could just sell the farm for Kovalchuk


Last edited by JTG: 12-02-2008 at 02:59 PM.
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12-02-2008, 03:02 PM
  #118
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If we are going to market Staal and/or Whitney/Gonchar, we have to think of WHO needs them the most.

Staal: Chicago, St.Louis, Florida, Buffalo, and maybe Anaheim
Gonchar: Pick any cup contender without a true PP QB right now.
Whitney: any number of teams due to his contract.

What do we need for playoffs and next year? Two to three top six wingers, one or two bottom pairing defenders, and a backup goaltender.

Who could be available?
(Personally, I love the Chicago idea with the youngsters coming over for Staal, but I can see where people would want an established top six guy in the deal.)

-- Cheechoo, SJS (3 M 'til 10-11)
-- Clowe, SJS (1.6 M, RFA) -- both guys are physical enough to help our top spot and with Blake and Semenov UFA's, a defender might be their choice. Them getting Boyle really may have stopped this opportunity though.

-- Booth, FLA (700 K RFA) -- Florida could use a big center behind Horton and leave Weiss at the third spot. However, with Matthias, this may be a moot point. Also, for Staal, you would want to get something else as well.

-- Boyes, STL (4.0 M 'til 11-12) -- St. Louis has some serious forwards. (Backes, Perron, Kariya, Oshie, McDonald, Tkachuk, Berglund) A true offensive threat to bridge the gap to Pietrangelo could also be needed. Colaciacovo, unless he is healthy, doesn't change this.

-- Ryan, ANA (1.54 M 'til 09-10) -- Anaheim gets another big center behind Getzlaf to take Morrison's spot or Neidermayer. Pens get a big forward to ride shotgun with Crosby?

-- Kotalik, BUF (2.3 M, UFA) & Stafford, BUF (984 K 'til 09-10) -- a deal with Staal could snag both of them and Kotalik wouldn't be hard to re-sign and has a nice shot, but is inconsistent. He won't cost as much as Satan though.

Gonchar and Whitney have so many avenues, it's ridiculous. One things for sure ... if all three return, the Pens top lines will be Crosby, Malkin, and patched together pieces, period.

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12-02-2008, 04:15 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by BatonRougePen25 View Post
Loving Staal to Chicago more and more each day.

Skille
Brouwer
Byfuglien
Ladd

I would love to snag any three of these kids for Staal and Eaton/Gill/ or Scuds
Doesn't work for Hawks with the likely hood Havlat moves on from Hawks we would need 1 of the 3 RW to move into his spot.

How about this

To Hawks
C Jordan Staal

To Pens
RW/LW Troy Brouwer
RW Jack Skille
C/LW Akim Aliu
Calgary's 2nd in 2010

Hawks could only make this move after dumping some salary (Sopel or Khabby most likely)

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12-02-2008, 04:39 PM
  #120
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Why are the Hawks so quick to give up Skille?

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12-02-2008, 04:45 PM
  #121
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And if we are dealing with Chicago...how about Hendry included with Skille + ?

We are attempting to find a bottom 6 guy for next year. Now I'm not sure how much I believe when I read HF player profiles, but Hendry seems like what the Dr. ordered for us.

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12-02-2008, 05:15 PM
  #122
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Doesn't work for Hawks with the likely hood Havlat moves on from Hawks we would need 1 of the 3 RW to move into his spot.

How about this

To Hawks
C Jordan Staal

To Pens
RW/LW Troy Brouwer
RW Jack Skille
C/LW Akim Aliu
Calgary's 2nd in 2010

Hawks could only make this move after dumping some salary (Sopel or Khabby most likely)
If the Pens could have one top six winger (other than Sykora or Satan) set up for next year before this deal, I'm ALL on board with this one!

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Old
12-02-2008, 05:17 PM
  #123
Crosberry87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Doesn't work for Hawks with the likely hood Havlat moves on from Hawks we would need 1 of the 3 RW to move into his spot.

How about this

To Hawks
C Jordan Staal

To Pens
RW/LW Troy Brouwer
RW Jack Skille
C/LW Akim Aliu
Calgary's 2nd in 2010

Hawks could only make this move after dumping some salary (Sopel or Khabby most likely)

I'd prefer Kyle Beach though.

To Chicago - Staal

To Pittsburgh - Beach, Skille

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12-02-2008, 05:48 PM
  #124
Blackhawkswincup
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
Why are the Hawks so quick to give up Skille?
We are deep at RW! He has high value in trades and Hawks are no longer rebuilding. Kane, Havlat, Brouwer, Sharp (Can play all 3 positions), Versteeg (Can play LW and RW), Byfuglien, Blunden, Makarov, Bertram, etc. Hawks have alot of depth at RW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
And if we are dealing with Chicago...how about Hendry included with Skille + ?

We are attempting to find a bottom 6 guy for next year. Now I'm not sure how much I believe when I read HF player profiles, but Hendry seems like what the Dr. ordered for us.
Hendry would be available! Hawks top Dman in our system is Niklas Hjalmarsson. He is only 20 and is our most likely #6 next season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StrakaLangKovy View Post
I'd prefer Kyle Beach though.

To Chicago - Staal

To Pittsburgh - Beach, Skille
Beach is the only guy in our system that is untouchable!

Hawks haven't had a great LW since Larmer. Lots of people believe that Beach will someday play LW on a line with Toews-Kane. He is the best LW prospect hawks have had since Larmer.

Hawks have and excellent 3rd line LW (Ladd) and a good versatile wingers in Sharp and Versteeg but Beach is our only Blue-chip LW. He almost made Hawks this year and it is expected he will be on Hawks roster at start of next year.

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Old
12-02-2008, 06:29 PM
  #125
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Beach is what I really want from the Hawks.

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