Let's take off our Hab rose-colored glasses for a sec (in reference to the guy who said Lucic has no star quality): Lucic is going to be a star, not on the Vinny Lecav level or anything like that, but he will pot 30 goal seasons on a regular basis, not to mention his physical presence. He was great with Team Canada at the WJC and he will only get better. You don't put a 19 year-old on the top line with Savard unless he's that promising, now included. Lucic-Savard-Kessel is one of the top lines in the league, there's no arguing it (each one possesses distinct talents and together they are a force.)
We can only hope MaxPac develops in a similar fashion-- Lucic is the type of player every team desires.
As for Lats and French media favoritism, there may be something there but let's remember we are in Quebec and there's nothing wrong with the media (to a sensible degree) playing Lats up. That said, two things: 1) many in the French media (Gaston Therrien being a good example) call out Lats when he's underperforming and 2) I've always been impressed with how well Lats handles himself in the media-- he's cool and level-headed, a team player, and he tries to keep the media grounded. Now if only his perfomance on the ice were as sweet as his ability to deal with the media.
Lats is a project: we need to give him 5 years. Perhaps he should have spent some time in Hamilton, but he hasn't so we need to live with the reality that he's developing at the NHL. I can definitely see Lats becoming a consistent 20-25 goal scorer come year 5 and beyond. Like everyone else, I just wish he would plant his ass in front of the net more and let his hands do the rest. That's where he'll score 90% of his goals.
First of all, Lucic is 20. Second, I'm not sure he has the hands to score 30 even playing with a great playmaker like Savard. He's only on pace for 20 right now and Boston has been on fire so far this year. Third, 30 goals doesn't make you a star...Ryder did it twice and I don't think anybody said he was a star when he signed in Boston.
Latendresse's biggest problem is his coach has no patience, he played well early on and Koivu/Tanguay had a great start, as soon as the team has a bad game he pulls him off that line and Tanguay/Koivu's production has dropped to half while Lats plays 3rd or 4th line.
Lucic has more of an impact to his team than Gui does on the Habs. If Lats misses a game, he's not really missed. If he's in the lineup... not that big of a change; which is EXACTLY why he constantly gets dicked around the lines. If he was that important he would have solidified a permanent position on the roster, but he hasn't and it's been 3 years almost and we still dunno wtf this kid is all about.
Lucic on the other hand is a big loss to his team if he's out of the lineup, and a big help if he's in it.
Gui has more talent, but talent alone means nothing. I brought up Ryder because he could score but that doesn't mean ****. Ryder had little impact on the team. Lucic, even if he doesn't score, is still useful in various other facets. He's also gaining a scoring touch so he's not all that bad.
Is Gui more talented? Yes
Is he as important to his team as Lucic? Definitely not, and likely never will be.
The MAIN difference between Lucic and Lats is that Lucic actually has balls!!!
The MAIN difference between Lucic and Lats is that Lucic actually has balls!!!
What happened to them when BGL was on the ice. Lats went after Charra to defend a teammate. Lucic fights non fighters because he knows he can win. I guess Lats TKOing Pratt proves he is a top fighter?
He leads the team in hits, but I could lead the team in hits as well if I just went and hit people because I was told to. He has 55 hits this season, how many times has he seperated the puck with a hit!?
It's a nice thing to say "He leads the habs in hits" but what is the point in hitting if it never amounts to anything. He is still a soft player and wouldn't hit if the coach would not ask him to.
He leads the team in hits, but I could lead the team in hits as well if I just went and hit people because I was told to. He has 55 hits this season, how many times has he seperated the puck with a hit!?
It's a nice thing to say "He leads the habs in hits" but what is the point in hitting if it never amounts to anything. He is still a soft player and wouldn't hit if the coach would not ask him to.
Separating people from the puck is not the only reason to hit. First it wears down the opposition, second they start making their play sooner to avoid a hit and make a bad decision. There is no downside to finishing your checks.
What happened to them when BGL was on the ice. Lats went after Charra to defend a teammate. Lucic fights non fighters because he knows he can win. I guess Lats TKOing Pratt proves he is a top fighter?
I don't know about defending, all he did was talk **** and Chara swiped him, are we going to say Marc Savard is tough because he defended Lucic agaisnt Laraque when he told Laraque to shut his mouth.
Sometimes I think people see what they want to in order to prove their point.
No Lats is not Pierre Dagenais, they don't play the same style, one is a grinder with average hands the other was a slow skating sniper.
Secondly, if Lats was playing well, he would be playing on higher lines period! Carbonneau has babied him for three years and really doubt he would be demoted if he were playing well, the reality is that he looks like any other grinder we have on our team, Lappiere, Laraque, Dandenault, Begin and Kostopoulos all work as hard and as well as Latendresse along the board.
Separating people from the puck is not the only reason to hit. First it wears down the opposition, second they start making their play sooner to avoid a hit and make a bad decision. There is no downside to finishing your checks.
Ask Tom Kostopoulos that same question.
If he's not hitting to seperate the puck, then what is the difference between any other grinder on the team and Lats. The whole reason why seperating the puck is important for Lats is because he supposed to be an offense player who can score, if he's just checking to finish and wear down, then he is no different than any other grinder on our team and is maybe the reason as to why he isn't playing tonight. Hitting to wear down is good when you're a grinder, but when you're supposed to be a "powerforward" is pretty useless.
I don't know about defending, all he did was talk **** and Chara swiped him, are we going to say Marc Savard is tough because he defended Lucic agaisnt Laraque when he told Laraque to shut his mouth.
Sometimes I think people see what they want to in order to prove their point.
No Lats is not Pierre Dagenais, they don't play the same style, one is a grinder with average hands the other was a slow skating sniper.
Secondly, if Lats was playing well, he would be playing on higher lines period! Carbonneau has babied him for three years and really doubt he would be demoted if he were playing well, the reality is that he looks like any other grinder we have on our team, Lappiere, Laraque, Dandenault, Begin and Kostopoulos all work as hard and as well as Latendresse along the board.
You're getting ridiculous. How does telling somebody to shut their mouth defend your teammate?
Carbonneau has never babied Lats, if anything he's been quick on the trigger as sooin as he has a bad game. SKost did basically nothing the last 6 weeks last year and he still played with Koivu and Higgins. Lats had a couple of so so games this year after Higgins came back and next thing you know he is back with Kostopoulos/Lang/Lapierre/Begin etc.
The huge difference from those players to Lats is hands. He's scored 16 goals in each of the last 2 years playing 3rd and 4th lines. Those 5 guys have combined for 25 goals in 06-07 and 30 goals in 07-08.
If he's not hitting to seperate the puck, then what is the difference between any other grinder on the team and Lats. The whole reason why seperating the puck is important for Lats is because he supposed to be an offense player who can score, if he's just checking to finish and wear down, then he is no different than any other grinder on our team and is maybe the reason as to why he isn't playing tonight. Hitting to wear down is good when you're a grinder, but when you're supposed to be a "powerforward" is pretty useless.
So if a defenseman hurries his play because he is getting hit and Koivu/Tanguay intercept and get a scoring chance that is useless? I thought the whole point of the game was scoring?
So if a defenseman hurries his play because he is getting hit and Koivu/Tanguay intercept and get a scoring chance that is useless? I thought the whole point of the game was scoring?
I believe that's what I said when I said he doesn't seperate the puck. When he hits the puck is almost always not in the possession of the defender he's hitting thereby not amounting to anything and I'm not exaggerating, this actually happens, every game!
I believe that's what I said when I said he doesn't seperate the puck. When he hits the puck is almost always not in the possession of the defender he's hitting thereby not amounting to anything and I'm not exaggerating, this actually happens, every game!
Obviously you were not watching Habs games when he was with Koivu and Tanguay.
Perspective, folks... Lucic still doesn't have as many career NHL goals than Lats had after his first season. And he's now playing with Marc Savard, as opposed to Maxim Lapierre. If he matches Lats' 32 after his second season, he'll be doing well.
Lucic is pretty severely overrated, at least offensively. He's a great hitter and all, and a very good glorified goon, but he has a loooooooooong way to go before he's Cam Neely.
Of course he's not Cam Neely but there isn't a GM in the NHL who would take Lats over Lucic.
Tired of the Lats boosters complaining about what line he's on. The one person most responsible for Lat's development is Lats. When you see guys go into the lineup who are less talented than you while you sit in the pressbox it's time to ask yourself "what are they doing that I'm not?". The answer- What the coach is asking of you.
Lats has not been effective grinding or scoring (and he was given opportunities for both) even though he has the body and the hands to do both. The big club should treat him like he's in the army, break him then remake him. The tools are there, forget everything about the player you think you are and do what the coaches tell you to do. If your too stupid or lazy to do them you don't play. period. Sticking with a passive game thinking you are a scorer when the only way your scoring is when your linemates do all the work is a sure way to get yourself shipped out of town because it won't be long before you slump and then what good are you? You don't contribute anything else. Ryder and Dagenais are great examples.
Tired of the Lats boosters complaining about what line he's on. The one person most responsible for Lat's development is Lats. When you see guys go into the lineup who are less talented than you while you sit in the pressbox it's time to ask yourself "what are they doing that I'm not?". The answer- What the coach is asking of you.
Lats has not been effective grinding or scoring (and he was given opportunities for both) even though he has the body and the hands to do both. The big club should treat him like he's in the army, break him then remake him. The tools are there, forget everything about the player you think you are and do what the coaches tell you to do. If your too stupid or lazy to do them you don't play. period. Sticking with a passive game thinking you are a scorer when the only way your scoring is when your linemates do all the work is a sure way to get yourself shipped out of town because it won't be long before you slump and then what good are you? You don't contribute anything else. Ryder and Dagenais are great examples.
endrant.
So you think benching a guy after half a game back from an injury is justifiable? He had 15 shifts and 5 hits(most on the team) and was not on the ice for a goal against. If Tanguay doesn't score tonight he should be scratched next game? Tanguay has been pretty inefective before he got hurt despite tons of ice time and Pp time. How about Plekanec and Higgins?
Last edited by Monctonscout: 12-02-2008 at 06:22 PM.
So you think benching a guy after half a game back from an injury is justifiable? If Tanguay doesn't score tonight he should be scratched next game? Tanguay has been pretty inefective before he got hurt despite tons of ice time and Pp time. How about Plekanec and Higgins?
Yes. It depends on how effective he is, if he creates nothing and is a liability then yes. Same for those two. The team is bigger than the player and the coach needs players who get the job done. If a game of musical press-box is what it takes then so be it.
IMO those three you mentioned are all twice the player Lats (both on and away from the puck) is so they will tend to get more rope. Lats has to earn his way onto the squad, he is not entitled to it just because of his contract status.
