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Too many NHL team? opinions

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Old
12-02-2008, 01:04 PM
  #226
Teemu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsn View Post
Nice try though. Columbus does need to be relocated, hopefully to Portland (who probably gets more fans to their minor league games than Columbus) or Seattle.
Geography fail.

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Old
12-02-2008, 01:12 PM
  #227
ALine9900
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http://www.forbes.com/business/sport...ss_sportsmoney

Does this list mean anything, if it's actually accurate?

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Old
12-02-2008, 01:13 PM
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teemu View Post
Geography fail.
More like EPIC fail, on every possible level.

Dude railed me for not doing my homework on SF Bay Area hockey history, then pulls out of his *** that Portland draws more fans for AHL games than Columbus for NHL games. In reality, Portland (not even the one he was talking about) averages 4,285 fans a game.

Clearly an authority on NHL business strategy.

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Old
12-02-2008, 01:14 PM
  #229
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Yes, it definitely feels watered down. Imagine the hockey that could be played if they were to cut 6-8 teams. There's just not enough good players out there to maintain 30(!) squads.

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Old
12-02-2008, 01:27 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers32185 View Post
The Rays just went to the WS and who gave a **** about them? Look I have family all over Florida who are sports fans and when they tell me no one down there cares about sports as much as NYC I believe them. I've been down there, college football gets most the talk.
wow. you have no idea what you're talking about. or your family doesn't.

either way, your anecdotal evidence is a hasty generalization at best. who cares if the people your family knows don't care about sports? i know that i had to pay over $250 for an obstructed view seat in the world series, and it dominated all media during it's run (including sports radio).

in fact, many conjecture that it's the reason the lightning attendance percentage figures are down this season, as the WS run lasted all of October and games were held simultaneously to many lightning regular season games.

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Old
12-02-2008, 03:23 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by crazycanuck View Post
cough, cough.. winnepeg cough, cough

Winnepeg, and Hartford have AHL teams, Winnepeg is 2nd in the league to Hershey in Attendance. The average attendance in the AHL is just over 5,000 people.

And yes, if I lived in a city that couldn't support a NHL franchise and had an AHL franchise I would support it.
What are we waiting for? Lets give NHL franchise to HERSHEY!

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12-02-2008, 03:30 PM
  #232
Denzil
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Originally Posted by The Korean View Post
What are we waiting for? Lets give NHL franchise to HERSHEY!
Hershey > Winnipeg.

And the AHL isn't that bad, although the Rats aren't having a great year so far...

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Old
12-02-2008, 04:00 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Denzil View Post
Hershey > Winnipeg.

And the AHL isn't that bad, although the Rats aren't having a great year so far...
Well, you can't have Tom Rowe back. We like what he's done with Daniel's old job working the D in Carolina...

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Old
12-02-2008, 07:00 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
Sigh.

As has been pointed out many times on this (and the BoH) board - the Team Marketing Report uses a fundamentally flawed methodology that makes their numbers pretty much useless for many/most teams. It grossly underestimates many teams by excluding "premium" seating and leaves it up to each teams PR dept to define just what that means.

Hint - the Avs actually have the second or third most expensive tickets in the league and TMR has them at #26. Their number for the Sharks (#21 $43.07) effectively omits pretty much the entire lower bowl at the HP Pavilion.
Wait, you're basing this on the "leaked" Globe & Mail report, right?

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Old
12-02-2008, 07:03 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers32185 View Post
The Rays just went to the WS and who gave a **** about them? Look I have family all over Florida who are sports fans and when they tell me no one down there cares about sports as much as NYC I believe them. I've been down there, college football gets most the talk.
Even on the internet, Floridians can't get away from New Yorkers telling us how much better they do things.

How about you come down here for more than a week & maybe you'll figure out how things really are, with divided loyalties of the transplants, etc? I certainly can't be bothered explaining it to you. Or maybe I could come up with some sweeping generalizations of New Yorkers even though I've only visited there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hossua34 View Post
How nobody rides on New Jersey more in these threads is beyond me. There is a team that 1) has a brand new, beautiful arena and 2) is always competitive, regardless of how boring it may be to watch. And yet they always have mediocre-to-poor attendance.
Short answer: because it snows there

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Old
12-02-2008, 07:42 PM
  #236
kdb209
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Originally Posted by NJD8 View Post
Wait, you're basing this on the "leaked" Globe & Mail report, right?
Yes - and simple analysis done of actual Colorado (ColoradoHockeyFan) and San Jose (myself) ticket prices.

This post by CHF shows the flaw in TMRs methodology after they changed it in 2001 to arbitrarily exclude "premium" seats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoHockeyFan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209
No. That is a BAD place to find pricing info.

The bogus numbers on the Team Marketing Report site have been debunked numerous times on the BoH board.

Probably the best (and possibly the only) numbers you are going to find for avg ticket prices were the numbers leaked last year in the Globe & Mail:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/v5/co...pdf/NHLweb.pdf
Thank you. (And thanks to Fugu too.)

Continue to spread the message about the worthlessness of Team Marketing Report, and we will eventually triumph over misinformation! Can I get a hallelujah!

And to further the cause, here is the sorted version of the accurate numbers from that Globe and Mail link:

PHP Code:
Average ticket prices by team
Team                   2006
-07  2005-06
Toronto Maple Leafs    80.33    78.98
Colorado Avalanche     71.04    65.55
New York Rangers       63.53    54.19
Dallas Stars           61.43    58.37
Edmonton Oilers        61.14    50.20
Montreal Canadiens     60.82    58.74
Boston Bruins          59.71    56.61
Vancouver Canucks      58.74    56.24
Detroit Red Wings      56.95    56.72
Columbus Blue Jackets  56.07    53.77
Philadelphia Flyers    54.59    51.94
Minnesota Wild         54.54    51.18
Anaheim Ducks          52.25    49.79
San Jose Sharks        50.95    49.05
Calgary Flames         50.70    46.97
Ottawa Senators        50.38    45.30
New Jersey Devils      49.91    48.97
Los Angeles Kings      46.75    44.17
New York Islanders     45.04    46.30
Carolina Hurricanes    44.91    38.81
Tampa Bay Lightning    44.50    42.38
Phoenix Coyotes        43.60    45.66
Chicago Blackhawks     40.79    39.74
Nashville Predators    40.33    34.74
Florida Panthers       39.75    44.59
Washington Capitals    39.57    36.16
St
Louis Blues        39.50    35.23
Pittsburgh Penguins    38.62    38.05
Atlanta Thrashers      37.27    32.70
Buffalo Sabres         36.67    36.37
League average         52.13    49.31 
Edit: An additional note on one of the reasons that Team Marketing Report's numbers are bogus. Sometime around the 2000-2001 season, they inexplicably decided to stop including anything termed "premium seating" in their average ticket prices. This immediately invalidates their numbers because of the way in which they collect their data--from marketing reps of the respective teams. Each team is allowed to label as "premium seating" any portion of their arena. So a team like Colorado, for example, can simply say that the entire lower bowl is "premium," and exclude it from the average, which is how you wind up with their laughable (made-up) "average" ticket price of under $40!

Edit: For a clear illustration of the effect of the above artificial calculation of average ticket price, observe the historical prices reported by TMR documented here:

http://andrewsstarspage.com/NHL-Busi...ket-prices.htm

Note the average ticket prices reported for Colorado during the 2000-01 season and the 2001-02 season. According to TMR, the average ticket price dropped that year from $63.11 in 2000-01 to $37.36 in 2001-02. In other words, TMR would have you believe that the Avs, coming off of a Stanley Cup winning season, with one of the best single seasons ever put together by an NHL team, not only decided to drop their ticket prices (laughable enough), but decided to drop them by an unheard of 41%! (clearly more laughable). As a season ticket-holder for the past 12 years, I can assure you that no such thing happened (not that I needed to tell you this). There was no drop, obviously. There was an increase (also obviously). The artificial numbers reported by TMR that year (and every year thereafter) are simply the result of the seat classification flaw mentioned above in this post.

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