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Briere out of shape?(Edit out 4-5 weeks, post #16)

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Old
12-04-2008, 10:42 AM
  #51
mikedifr
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Originally Posted by opus View Post
Sorry, I don't like Briere.

Never did, never will.
If you dont like him fine, that is well within your right, but the people that like him one week and hate him the next are frigin annoying.....

Whether you like him or not, you cant deny the impact he had in the playoffs last year and on the powerplay in the regular season. He scored just as many goals as he did in buffalo, had less assists......which was a direct reflection of having **** for wingers most of the season


By the way, my prediction is coming true....I know I posted at some point when we were looking at free agents that a player like Briere was going to come to Philly and a lot of people were going to ***** and moan about him cause he isnt a "Flyer" but a pure skill hockey player

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12-04-2008, 10:47 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
If you dont like him fine, that is well within your right, but the people that like him one week and hate him the next are frigin annoying.....

Whether you like him or not, you cant deny the impact he had in the playoffs last year and on the powerplay in the regular season. He scored just as many goals as he did in buffalo, had less assists......which was a direct reflection of having **** for wingers most of the season
True, but I'm not a fairweather fan.

While I appreciated his impact in the playoffs, I still didn't change my stance on him. He simply doesn't do it for me. With Richards and Carter, he's not 'needed'. He's also why I feel were so cap strapped.

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12-04-2008, 10:53 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by opus View Post
True, but I'm not a fairweather fan.

While I appreciated his impact in the playoffs, I still didn't change my stance on him. He simply doesn't do it for me. With Richards and Carter, he's not 'needed'. He's also why I feel were so cap strapped.
You are speaking in hindsight though.....Two offseasons ago when we signed him, Carter and Richards were coming off horrible seasons and we needed a legit #1 center. If Carter and Richards came off seasons like last year, they probably would not have signed him

We all knew this team was not going to go into a rebuilding mode and would try and turn it around quickly, hence the need to sign once of Briere/Gomez/Drury at the time.

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12-04-2008, 11:01 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
You are speaking in hindsight though.....Two offseasons ago when we signed him, Carter and Richards were coming off horrible seasons and we needed a legit #1 center. If Carter and Richards came off seasons like last year, they probably would not have signed him

We all knew this team was not going to go into a rebuilding mode and would try and turn it around quickly, hence the need to sign once of Briere/Gomez/Drury at the time.
Fair enough, but we knew they were the core of the future Flyers. I'm not saying Briere is useless, I just don't like the contract (length and term) accociated with the style of play. I remember being at work when I heard the deal announced on the Fan590...I wasn't impressed then...I'm not impressed now. Fact of the matter is this, we need him for the playoffs. He should sit until easily the new year.

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12-04-2008, 11:02 AM
  #55
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Briere definitely does seem to be the type of player when put in the right environment he succeeds very well. Very few players have Richards ability to adapt to any linemate, most need to be paired up with someone they click with to be truly effective.

And I wouldn't really say that Carter is the type of player that can play with any linemates. It is more like it doesn't overly matter who his linemates are as he doesn't particularly utilize them. It works well for him so far however if he can improve his passing game and learn to use his wingers more he will be deadly.

At the time of Briere's signing, it was a good idea. I know we all cringed a bit at the length, and a lot weren't particularly thrilled with the 6.5 million cap hit. However at that time Carter still looked a long ways away from reaching his potential, and while Richards stepped it up at the end of the season after Forsberg was shipped out, most still had pegged him as topping out as a 60 point shutdown center (playing on our "3rd" line with PP time and top PKer). So giving the Flyers win at all costs mentality of the front office (something most fans love as we have avoided consecutive bad seasons for a long time) it made sense to acquire a proven top center and unfortunately to do that, it took a big, long contract.

I still think that once Briere gets healthy, this team is stronger with him in the lineup. When a team can ice three very good scoring lines, it creates a huge headache for the opposition as their shutdown players can only be on the ice for so long.

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12-04-2008, 11:06 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by opus View Post
Fair enough, but we knew they were the core of the future Flyers. I'm not saying Briere is useless, I just don't like the contract (length and term) accociated with the style of play. I remember being at work when I heard the deal announced on the Fan590...I wasn't impressed then...I'm not impressed now. Fact of the matter is this, we need him for the playoffs. He should sit until easily the new year.
Hey, I dont disagree that they were the core. I for one said over and over again I was fine with going into last season with Gagne/Richards/Knuble as my top line and Carter as the 2nd line center and wanted to see them bring in a short term veteran to help them out. However, than the organization would have had to admit they were rebuilding the team.

Just curious though, what does the contract length and term have to do with style of play?? He is a highly skilled, borderline elite offensive player in the league, hence high salary.

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Originally Posted by EasyMac View Post
Briere definitely does seem to be the type of player when put in the right environment he succeeds very well. Very few players have Richards ability to adapt to any linemate, most need to be paired up with someone they click with to be truly effective.

And I wouldn't really say that Carter is the type of player that can play with any linemates. It is more like it doesn't overly matter who his linemates are as he doesn't particularly utilize them. It works well for him so far however if he can improve his passing game and learn to use his wingers more he will be deadly.

At the time of Briere's signing, it was a good idea. I know we all cringed a bit at the length, and a lot weren't particularly thrilled with the 6.5 million cap hit. However at that time Carter still looked a long ways away from reaching his potential, and while Richards stepped it up at the end of the season after Forsberg was shipped out, most still had pegged him as topping out as a 60 point shutdown center (playing on our "3rd" line with PP time and top PKer). So giving the Flyers win at all costs mentality of the front office (something most fans love as we have avoided consecutive bad seasons for a long time) it made sense to acquire a proven top center and unfortunately to do that, it took a big, long contract.

I still think that once Briere gets healthy, this team is stronger with him in the lineup. When a team can ice three very good scoring lines, it creates a huge headache for the opposition as their shutdown players can only be on the ice for so long.
Well said, I agree. For the record, I dont necessarily like the length of his deal either, but I was and am fine with a 6.5 cap hit for someone of his caliber

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12-04-2008, 11:07 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
If you dont like him fine, that is well within your right, but the people that like him one week and hate him the next are frigin annoying.....

Whether you like him or not, you cant deny the impact he had in the playoffs last year and on the powerplay in the regular season. He scored just as many goals as he did in buffalo, had less assists......which was a direct reflection of having **** for wingers most of the season


By the way, my prediction is coming true....I know I posted at some point when we were looking at free agents that a player like Briere was going to come to Philly and a lot of people were going to ***** and moan about him cause he isnt a "Flyer" but a pure skill hockey player
I love Briere, but that doesnt mean I wouldn't consider trading him. If Holmer got a good enough package I'd be all over it, but I wouldn't want him gone as a salary dump for scraps

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12-04-2008, 11:14 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Hey, I dont disagree that they were the core. I for one said over and over again I was fine with going into last season with Gagne/Richards/Knuble as my top line and Carter as the 2nd line center and wanted to see them bring in a short term veteran to help them out. However, than the organization would have had to admit they were rebuilding the team.

No, not the core two years ago...but going to be the core in the near future (ie: now). Right now we have three VERY good centers. Do we 'need' them? I don't think we do, were playing just fine with Briere on the sidelines. I just don't think it's money well spent.
For all the crap Jones gets around here, he's not making mad amounts of money, nor is he considered elite like Danny Boy.

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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Just curious though, what does the contract length and term have to do with style of play?? He is a highly skilled, borderline elite offensive player in the league, hence high salary.
Yes, he has glimpses of high talent.

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12-04-2008, 11:15 AM
  #59
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I love Briere, but that doesnt mean I wouldn't consider trading him. If Holmer got a good enough package I'd be all over it, but I wouldn't want him gone as a salary dump for scraps
Other than Richards, Carter and Coburn, in my opinion, no one is "untouchable"

What would be a good enough package for him though??? Lets pretend he didnt have a no movement clause, where would you trade him and what would you ask for??

Not being a *******, I am curious....and since so many ridicuolous trade scenarios are posted lets have our own hypothetical trade discussion

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12-04-2008, 11:21 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by opus View Post
For all the crap Jones gets around here, he's not making mad amounts of money, nor is he considered elite like Danny Boy.



Yes, he has glimpses of high talent.
Actually, I think Jones' cap hit is arguably worse than Danny's, especially with Carle here now.


Since the lockout, which no one can argue made players like Briere more effective, these are his stats:

Regular Season
Games 217
Goals 93
Assists 141
Points 234
+/- -8

Playoffs
Games 51
Goals 20
Assists 30
Points 50
+/- Even

How is that glimpses of high talent???? How many players in the NHL are averaging >ppg over the last 3 seasons??

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12-04-2008, 11:25 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Actually, I think Jones' cap hit is arguably worse than Danny's, especially with Carle here now.


Since the lockout, which no one can argue made players like Briere more effective, these are his stats:

Regular Season
Games 217
Goals 93
Assists 141
Points 234
+/- -8

Playoffs
Games 51
Goals 20
Assists 30
Points 50
+/- Even

How is that glimpses of high talent???? How many players in the NHL are averaging >ppg over the last 3 seasons??
Can't argue his stats, I'm very much aware of his production. For whatever reason, I'm just not a fan. Perhaps it's lack of his defensive accountability. Who knows. It doesn't matter, he's not going anywhere. I just want him healthy for the playoffs.

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12-04-2008, 11:28 AM
  #62
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Can't argue his stats, I'm very much aware of his production. For whatever reason, I'm just not a fan. Perhaps it's lack of his defensive accountability. Who knows. It doesn't matter, he's not going anywhere. I just want him healthy for the playoffs.
Thats fine, I am not arguing with you. I am not his biggest fan either, there are a handful of players on the team I would say I am a fan of before him (Richards, Hartnell, Timonen), but no one can deny he is one of the better offensive players in the league. I wouldnt say elite (Ovechkin, Thornton, Iginla), but in the next tier.

Yes, I want him healthy for the playoffs as well. And also, while I much rather have a health Breire, it helps us from a cap standpoint to save a few months of his salary when all is said and done. Maybe that could be the veteran we bring in for a cup run money

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12-04-2008, 11:30 AM
  #63
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Thats fine, I am not arguing with you. I am not his biggest fan either, there are a handful of players on the team I would say I am a fan of before him (Richards, Hartnell, Timonen), but no one can deny he is one of the better offensive players in the league. I wouldnt say elite (Ovechkin, Thornton, Iginla), but in the next tier.

Yes, I want him healthy for the playoffs as well. And also, while I much rather have a health Breire, it helps us from a cap standpoint to save a few months of his salary when all is said and done. Maybe that could be the veteran we bring in for a cup run money
Agreed.

Yes, this injury might be a blessing in disguise.

*coughs*...Sundin...*coughs*

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12-04-2008, 11:30 AM
  #64
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Other than Richards, Carter and Coburn, in my opinion, no one is "untouchable"

What would be a good enough package for him though??? Lets pretend he didnt have a no movement clause, where would you trade him and what would you ask for??

If Briere were to get moved (which obviously won't happen, at least for several seasons), the only package that would make sense to me would be a:

Briere plus defenceman

for

Good third line center plus upgrade to defenceman leaving Philly.

Basically take a downgrade on Briere (go from an awesome offensive player with suspect defense to a center with adequate offense and good defense, ie a slightly more talented Metropolit) and get an upgrade on defence.

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12-04-2008, 11:32 AM
  #65
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Are people really willing to trade Briere for Wellwood?

Great post from Mikedifr on page 2.

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12-04-2008, 11:32 AM
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Opus, you also hate hartnell aswell. The only guy in our team that plays the game tough at the moment.

Briere haters are pathetic sometimes. Last year everyone wanted him out and booed him, Then he goes on a playoff run and everyone thinks he's the second comming of christ. It's pathetic.

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12-04-2008, 11:37 AM
  #67
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If Briere were to get moved (which obviously won't happen, at least for several seasons), the only package that would make sense to me would be a:

Briere plus defenceman

for

Good third line center plus upgrade to defenceman leaving Philly.

Basically take a downgrade on Briere (go from an awesome offensive player with suspect defense to a center with adequate offense and good defense, ie a slightly more talented Metropolit) and get an upgrade on defence.
In theory that would work, it would just depend on the defense we are giving up. If we are brining in a top notch dman, I would think Carle would have to go again otherwise we would have too much money tied up in our defense.

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12-04-2008, 11:53 AM
  #68
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Agreed.

Yes, this injury might be a blessing in disguise.

*coughs*...Sundin...*coughs*
Well, keep Briere out until February, replace Alberts permanently with Kukkonen, move Jones and get Sundin to sign for whatever is left

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12-04-2008, 11:54 AM
  #69
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In theory that would work, it would just depend on the defense we are giving up. If we are brining in a top notch dman, I would think Carle would have to go again otherwise we would have too much money tied up in our defense.
Well, in an ideal world it would be Jones, who while I think doesn't deserve the amount of criticism he gets and is a decent defenseman, just makes too much for what he brings. And it wouldn't be a top defender ala Jay-Bo or anything like that, just a very good, solid 2nd pairing dman in more of a stay at home type of mold.

We have a first pairing in Timonen and Coburn (if he can play like he did last year), Carle for the 2nd pairing (who I think could be great if he was paired with a very defensively sound partner to cover for his aggressive offensive play - Vananen is good but an upgrade to him would obviously be better) and then could have Vananen and Sbisa as the 3rd, with Parent in the minors (for now) and Alberts or Kukonen as the 7th.

I suppose you could argue that Parent could be that dman for the 2nd line and I could see his style matching Carle well. However as long as Jones and Sbisa are around and Parent is still AHL eligible, I doubt we will see Parent on the pro team, especially not on the 2nd pairing.

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12-04-2008, 12:01 PM
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I think any talk of trading Briere is ludacris.

NO MOVEMENT CLAUSE.

Danny aint leaving ANYTIME SOON. He seems happy here, so i think there is no way he waives the clause.

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12-04-2008, 12:03 PM
  #71
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nobody on the team had as many changes as Briere did, not even Richards. Richards first year with the team, he was playing with Handzus at first and then was moved to a line with Brashear and Savage. Richards second year, he played with Carter and Calder for one game and then the rest of the year, he played with Afanasenkov and Kapanen. Richards third year, there was more stability in that he mainly played with Lupul and Hartnell, but there were a few games he played with Hartnell and Downie. As for this year, Richards played with Gagne and Briere, but as of late, it's been Richards/Gagne/Knuble.

Richards did not play with 13 different linemates in one season like Briere did.
If one centre's linemates are constantly changing, it's literally impossible for the other centres' linemates to stay the same. Richards has played with everybody, Briere has played with everybody.

Good players make the players around them better. Basically, you're telling me Briere is a leech.

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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Medical staff have nothing to do with it. A guy returns to the lineup from a groin strain when he says he feels good enough to return. That's it.

There is no "medical staff rushed him back!" or "I hope the staff take their time this time!"

Good grief.
Yup. There's no secret raygun that McCrossin can zap Briere's groin with to get a reading on whether or not it feels 100%. Briere said he was ready to play, so he played.

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12-04-2008, 12:15 PM
  #72
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Are people really willing to trade Briere for Wellwood?
Uhm, no. Were just shooting the breeze.

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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Opus, you also hate hartnell aswell. The only guy in our team that plays the game tough at the moment.

Briere haters are pathetic sometimes. Last year everyone wanted him out and booed him, Then he goes on a playoff run and everyone thinks he's the second comming of christ. It's pathetic.
Wrong. Hartnell just makes me shake my head.

You will never hear me say Briere is the second coming of Christ. Frodo maybe, Christ...never.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyMac View Post
If Briere were to get moved (which obviously won't happen, at least for several seasons), the only package that would make sense to me would be a:

Briere plus defenceman

for

Good third line center plus upgrade to defenceman leaving Philly.

Basically take a downgrade on Briere (go from an awesome offensive player with suspect defense to a center with adequate offense and good defense, ie a slightly more talented Metropolit) and get an upgrade on defence.
That works.

It will never happen, but I think something like that makes us a better team.

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12-04-2008, 12:24 PM
  #73
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Sorry, I don't like Briere.

Never did, never will.
Me neither, I don't dislike the guy, but I don't have a real appreciation for his "style".

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12-04-2008, 01:04 PM
  #74
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Well, in an ideal world it would be Jones, who while I think doesn't deserve the amount of criticism he gets and is a decent defenseman, just makes too much for what he brings. And it wouldn't be a top defender ala Jay-Bo or anything like that, just a very good, solid 2nd pairing dman in more of a stay at home type of mold.

We have a first pairing in Timonen and Coburn (if he can play like he did last year), Carle for the 2nd pairing (who I think could be great if he was paired with a very defensively sound partner to cover for his aggressive offensive play - Vananen is good but an upgrade to him would obviously be better) and then could have Vananen and Sbisa as the 3rd, with Parent in the minors (for now) and Alberts or Kukonen as the 7th.

I suppose you could argue that Parent could be that dman for the 2nd line and I could see his style matching Carle well. However as long as Jones and Sbisa are around and Parent is still AHL eligible, I doubt we will see Parent on the pro team, especially not on the 2nd pairing.
I think Parent will be eventually, but getting somone in here for the next year or two would be fine. I am fine with Vaananen though.

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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
If one centre's linemates are constantly changing, it's literally impossible for the other centres' linemates to stay the same. Richards has played with everybody, Briere has played with everybody.

Good players make the players around them better. Basically, you're telling me Briere is a leech.

Yup. There's no secret raygun that McCrossin can zap Briere's groin with to get a reading on whether or not it feels 100%. Briere said he was ready to play, so he played.
Richards played with Umberger and Lupul for a good chunk and then with Downie and Hartnell for a good chunk. All guys that complement his style of play. Briere was playing mostly with Knuble on the RW and they tried just about every other winger on the team with him on the left, other than Upshall and Lupul. None of those guys fit his style of play at all, other than Gagne who has worked very well with when together and healthy.

If Briere is a leech than so were LeClair and Renberg, both good players in their own right that were much much better playing with Eric Lindros.

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12-04-2008, 01:05 PM
  #75
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I think any talk of trading Briere is ludacris.

NO MOVEMENT CLAUSE.

Danny aint leaving ANYTIME SOON. He seems happy here, so i think there is no way he waives the clause.
Most of us know that. I was the one that started the "hypothetical" trade discussion since people were bad mouthing him. My goal was to have some moron propose a ridiculous trade so that we could rip into him

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