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Old
12-04-2008, 11:07 AM
  #1
zurg999
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Pierre McGuire and our 10 UFAs

I like Pierre as an analyst, but he’s really got to stop focusing on the 10 UFAs we have after this year. He mentions it at every opportunity like the sky will fall next season. Here’s the list (thanks to Thief50):

Tom Kostopoulos RW $900,000
Saku Koivu C $4,500,000 NTC
Alex Tanguay LW $5,375,000
Robert Lang C $4,000,000

Steve Bégin LW/C $1,300,000
Mathieu Dandenault RW/D $1,750,000
Alex Kovalev RW NTC [not to Western Conf prior to 1/31/09 w/o consent] $4,500,000
Mike Komisarek D $1,900,000
Francis Bouillon D $1,875,000
Patrice Brisebois D $750,000


At least he can count. So who of the above are ‘must sign’ players and who are ‘like to sign’ players’? I count two musts in Koivu and Komisarek. Beyond Komi, I can’t see any that would need to be signed at more than current salary. I see several more I’d like to see stay but from the remainder, a few have salaries above their value and some should just move on to make room for prospects. The only one I’d qualify would be Kovy, but I’m not sold on him being the piece that brings this organization a Cup.

Here’s the true value in the strength of the Hab’s prospect depth and the UFA market. There are players ready step in or available at all the above positions. Gainey does not need to be held for ransom. Someone should tell Pierre.

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12-04-2008, 11:09 AM
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Koivu, Kosto, Komi, Kovy, and Tanguay.

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12-04-2008, 11:11 AM
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Koivu, Komisarek, Tanguay, Kostopoulos. In that order. Bouillon, Kovalev and Lang I could take or leave. I don't want to see Brisebois, Dandenault or Begin back.

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12-04-2008, 11:13 AM
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zurg999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yarfangor View Post
Koivu, Kosto, Komi, Kovy, and Tanguay.
That would put us in the position Pierre is warning about.

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12-04-2008, 11:14 AM
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Saku Koivu
Alex Kovalev
Mike Komisarek

that's it

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12-04-2008, 11:16 AM
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Koivu
Tanguay
Komisarek

and maybe Kostopoulos depends how much he wants

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12-04-2008, 11:20 AM
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Ross MacLochness
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Kovalev, Brisebois and Dandenault aren't coming back and Lang most likely isn't coming back. But there's a possibility. Everyone else is re-signed. Couple Hamilton call ups, maybe a trade or UFA signing to fill out the roster. Pretty simple.

Oh I forgot Begin. Yeah I don't know what to do with him. Edit- With Laraque, Lapierre, TK, Stewart, Chipchura etc Begin is not needed.


Last edited by Ross MacLochness: 12-04-2008 at 11:26 AM.
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12-04-2008, 11:20 AM
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Tanguay, Komisarek are no brainers.

I would also keep bouillon, and lang (for similar contracts).

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12-04-2008, 11:22 AM
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I could see Bouillon taking a slight paycut to stay on the team...

and if he goes, who are you replacing him with?

I say Koivu, Tanguay, Bouillon, Komisarek.

maybe, just maybe kosto for a decent price...

Bouillon is more important/less easily replacable then kosto


Last edited by CH4: 12-04-2008 at 11:28 AM.
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12-04-2008, 11:22 AM
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Tom Kostopoulos RW if he signs for equal or less...

Saku Koivu C $4,500,000 NTC if he signs for equal or less.

Alex Tanguay LW $5,375,000 if he takes a big paycut. Maybe 4.

Robert Lang C $4,000,000 no more than 2 million.

Steve Bégin LW/C $1,300,000 no more than 750k

Mathieu Dandenault RW/D $1,750,000 no more than 450k.

Alex Kovalev RW NTC [not to Western Conf prior to 1/31/09 w/o consent] $4,500,000... toss another year on this.

Mike Komisarek D $1,900,000 likely going to take Markov numbers.

Francis Bouillon D $1,875,000 1.5 or less.

Patrice Brisebois D $750,000 No need.

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12-04-2008, 11:23 AM
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Erik Estrada
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1-Komisarek
2-Tanguay
3-Koivu

Kovalev still needs to continue selling himself to seal the deal.

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12-04-2008, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Koivu
Tanguay
Komisarek

and maybe Kostopoulos depends how much he wants
there's no way Kostopoulos stays. I think the 4th line on the 1st game next season will be Laraque-Chipchura-Lappierre with Stewart and White as substitutes

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12-04-2008, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Koivu
Tanguay
Komisarek

and maybe Kostopoulos depends how much he wants
I pretty much agree. I'd also maybe bring Bouillon back, maybe. I wouldn't sign Tanguay for more then he is making now.

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12-04-2008, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Koivu
Tanguay
Komisarek

and maybe Kostopoulos depends how much he wants
I agree with these. I don't think Kovalev is a must re-sign considering the UFA's next year.

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12-04-2008, 11:27 AM
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Ross MacLochness
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there's no way Kostopoulos stays. I think the 4th line on the 1st game next season will be Laraque-Chipchura-Lappierre with Stewart and White as substitutes
Really?

I think we gotta keep TK. Begin and Dandenault are gone.

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12-04-2008, 11:30 AM
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If the season ended today:

In this order:
Koivu
Komi
Tanguay

If any money left:
Kovy at a discount because of his play so far.
Kosto

If Kovy picks up his game and earns the same pay as this year or more, I'll re-evalutate.

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Old
12-04-2008, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
1-Komisarek
2-Tanguay
3-Koivu

Kovalev still needs to continue selling himself to seal the deal.
1a- Komisarek
1b- Koivu (can you imagine if he walks and we fail to sign another 1st line caliber centre )

2- Tanguay

3- Kostopoulos

everybody else walks unless they take a big time pay cut... I don't think Kovalev will re-sign because someone is bound to offer him one last big payday, and I don't think his ego would accept taking the reduced salary Gainey will/SHOULD offer him.

brisebois DEFINITELY does not get another contract

Tanguay-Koivu-D'ago
Kost jr- Pleks- Kost
Higgins- Chipchura- Lats
Kosto- Lapierre- Laraque/Stewart
(Maxwell/Pacioretty as first injury call ups)

Markov-Komi
Hamrlik-Gorges
O'byrne- UFA/Emelin/Carle/Weber

Price
Halak

barring a major trade (that brings us in a superstar a la Kovalchuk), or a serious injury, I bet our roster looks pretty much like this on opening day next season

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12-04-2008, 11:33 AM
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I remember his partner Gord Miller going on about the same thing in a game this year, make-or-break year, team will be totally different next year due to free agency, etc.

I don't know, maybe I'm just being naive, or overly optimistic, or too complacent, but... I don't really feel much concern about this. The Habs will have enough cap space to bring back almost any of the important players... *IF* the team wants them back, and *IF* the players want to come back.

Those two "IFs" are ample reassurance for me.

Brisebois, Dandenault, and Lang are gone, and that doesn't worry me in the least. Lang is the only real contributor there, but his role can be filled more cheaply, whether it's by him returning with a significant paycut or somebody else.

Begin, Bouillon, and Kostopolous are optional to me. None could get a raise. And we'd have to settle most of our more important cases first. But they are decent players IMHO, and if we had spots and cap space for them, I'd take them back. But I wouldn't be the least bit alarmed if we lost any of them, we can replace any of them from within.

So really, there's only 4 UFAs that matter. Koivu, Kovalev, Tanguay, and Komisarek. We will have cap space for all of them, unless one is intent on testing the market and maximizing his salary. If so, that's his right, and it means we can keep the other 3 even at exorbitant non-discount salaries. If it came to that, I don't see losing one player as being all that worrisome, it's just par for the course in the modern NHL.

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12-04-2008, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zurg999 View Post
I like Pierre as an analyst, but he’s really got to stop focusing on the 10 UFAs we have after this year. He mentions it at every opportunity like the sky will fall next season. Here’s the list (thanks to Thief50):

Tom Kostopoulos RW $900,000
Saku Koivu C $4,500,000 NTC
Alex Tanguay LW $5,375,000
Robert Lang C $4,000,000

Steve Bégin LW/C $1,300,000
Mathieu Dandenault RW/D $1,750,000
Alex Kovalev RW NTC [not to Western Conf prior to 1/31/09 w/o consent] $4,500,000
Mike Komisarek D $1,900,000
Francis Bouillon D $1,875,000
Patrice Brisebois D $750,000


At least he can count. So who of the above are ‘must sign’ players and who are ‘like to sign’ players’? I count two musts in Koivu and Komisarek. Beyond Komi, I can’t see any that would need to be signed at more than current salary. I see several more I’d like to see stay but from the remainder, a few have salaries above their value and some should just move on to make room for prospects. The only one I’d qualify would be Kovy, but I’m not sold on him being the piece that brings this organization a Cup.

Here’s the true value in the strength of the Hab’s prospect depth and the UFA market. There are players ready step in or available at all the above positions. Gainey does not need to be held for ransom. Someone should tell Pierre.
The only 'must sign' UFA on that list for me is Komisarek...

Koivu, Tanguay and Kovalev - we'll see how the year goes for them, but i'm not committed to either.

Lang, Bouillon and Kostopoulos - I don't forsee a scenario in which they'd come back, the staff would have to be convinced cheaper, younger options in the AHL aren't ready to assume their respective roles

Bégin, Dandenault, Brisebois - no thank you

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12-04-2008, 11:36 AM
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That would put us in the position Pierre is warning about.
That's becaues Pee-hare believes that komi, Kovy, Tanguay and koivu will all get the moon. Which won't happen.

- Koivu will stay and probably will take a paycut, if you,ve seen his interview, he says he's finally having fun. I don't think he'll take the chance to squander that after so many years of being patient just for the sake of getting 1-2 mil more per season elsewhere. (count maybe between 750k-1250k less per year, maybe front loaded)

- Kovalev will probably re-sign for the same amount or just a bit left. If he wants to stay with the Habs, that's what he'll have to do. It's a question of logic. The Habs can deal with his departure, but if he wants to stay and does stay, it won,t be anywhere near the exagerated amounts we hear. People look at the big salaries given, yet forget that players like Sakic, Modano and others have taken paycuts to stay with the team they liked. Which seems to be the case with Kovy and Koivu. (count about the same amount or maybe even 500k less)

- Komisarek will not get anywhere near 5 or 6 mil. The max for him will probably be 4,5. People always assume over-the-top numbers for contracts. It doesn't always work this way and especially in Komi's case, it wouldn't make sense. This is a desperate GM throwing around any amount to attract someone, it will not be a bidding war ON the market. He'll be signed outside and before the market. Or else they'll let him walk. (add max 3 mil to his present salary)

- Tanguay, probably the only one who'll sign for over 5 mil if they do want to keep him and he does want to stay. He might even reach 6 mil. (had max 675k to his present salary)

- Kostopoulos will probably gladly stay for the same amount he's making. No problem there.

Count in the RFAs Higgins, Plekanec and Latendresse.

- Both Higgins and Pleks, probably double their salary, but no more for the moment (unless one of them actually climbs up to 70 points which seems doubtful this year). (So add 3,4 to the cap)

So between 6-7 mil more on the cap

Considering Lang will probably be replaced by Maxwell. Bouillon gone, Dandy gone, Bégin gone. All replaced by players who will make around 850k.

That gives us 5,5 of free space on the cap.

Had the buybacks who will be finished : +700k

that makes it around 6 mil of free space.

There would not be a big difference. Now that's if they do keep Laraque. If they can trade him, that would add some dough too.

There are alot iof avenues that BG can take, and that's the whole beauty of it.

Pierre should just calm down and let the man in charge do his job.

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Old
12-04-2008, 11:36 AM
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Tom Kostopoulos RW if he signs for equal or less...

Saku Koivu C $4,500,000 NTC if he signs for equal or less.

Alex Tanguay LW $5,375,000 if he takes a big paycut. Maybe 4.

Robert Lang C $4,000,000 no more than 2 million.

Steve Bégin LW/C $1,300,000 no more than 750k

Mathieu Dandenault RW/D $1,750,000 no more than 450k.

Alex Kovalev RW NTC [not to Western Conf prior to 1/31/09 w/o consent] $4,500,000... toss another year on this.

Mike Komisarek D $1,900,000 likely going to take Markov numbers.

Francis Bouillon D $1,875,000 1.5 or less.

Patrice Brisebois D $750,000 No need.
you live in a fantasy world

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12-04-2008, 11:37 AM
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We need to keep anybody who can't be replace by the players in the organization AND we can't replace them by anybody else outside of it. But then, letting all 10 go is not good 'cause you might need some kind of continuity. Which is why for me the only guys that are "must" are:

Koivu
Komisarek
Tanguay (could be replace by outside talent, but just got here, was acquired for first and 2nd round picks, local talent...)

Only question mark is Kovalev.

Like Kosto and some of the rest, but they can be replaced and cheaper.

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12-04-2008, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I remember his partner Gord Miller going on about the same thing in a game this year, make-or-break year, team will be totally different next year due to free agency, etc.

I don't know, maybe I'm just being naive, or overly optimistic, or too complacent, but... I don't really feel much concern about this. The Habs will have enough cap space to bring back almost any of the important players... *IF* the team wants them back, and *IF* the players want to come back.

Those two "IFs" are ample reassurance for me.

Brisebois, Dandenault, and Lang are gone, and that doesn't worry me in the least. Lang is the only real contributor there, but his role can be filled more cheaply, whether it's by him returning with a significant paycut or somebody else.

Begin, Bouillon, and Kostopolous are optional to me. None could get a raise. And we'd have to settle most of our more important cases first. But they are decent players IMHO, and if we had spots and cap space for them, I'd take them back. But I wouldn't be the least bit alarmed if we lost any of them, we can replace any of them from within.

So really, there's only 4 UFAs that matter. Koivu, Kovalev, Tanguay, and Komisarek. We will have cap space for all of them, unless one is intent on testing the market and maximizing his salary. If so, that's his right, and it means we can keep the other 3 even at exorbitant non-discount salaries. If it came to that, I don't see losing one player as being all that worrisome, it's just par for the course in the modern NHL.
I agree with pretty much everything said in this post.

Koivu, Kovalev, Tanguay and Komisarek are the UFA's that matter. The question is: if all 4 cannot be resigned because of cap space, who do you not re-sign?

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Old
12-04-2008, 11:40 AM
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Markov-Komi
Hamrlik-Gorges
O'byrne- UFA/Emelin/Carle/Weber
Could we afford an UFA D? They're pretty expensive. We'd probably have to trade for another D if Cube leaves. That last pairing seems a little scary unless O'Byrne picks it up enough that we only need to worry about one rookie D.

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12-04-2008, 11:43 AM
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Komisarek then Koivu.

Anyone else is not a priority. Tanguay is nice if he takes a bit of a paycut. Unless he shows us something else for the rest of the year.

Kovalev, might do the dressing room some good for him to go elsewhere. Anyways if he is resigned to any length, the value should diminish from year to year. Koivu also.

Lang, buh-bye.

Kostopoulos. I like him, but we got guys who can do that job for NHL Minimum Wage on the farm.

Begin. Will he retire. Will his back hold up that long. I don't see him back here.

Dandy. Will probably leave. I doubt he's offered anything in Mtl.

Bouillon. Cna leave if he gets a better offer, although I can see Gainey offering him something. Not too far off his current salary plus or minus.

Brisebois. I think this will be it for Breezy and the team will offer him an assistant coaching job in Hamilton.

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