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Pierre McGuire and our 10 UFAs

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Old
12-04-2008, 11:44 AM
  #26
Erik Estrada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
1a- Komisarek
1b- Koivu (can you imagine if he walks and we fail to sign another 1st line caliber centre )

2- Tanguay

3- Kostopoulos

everybody else walks unless they take a big time pay cut... I don't think Kovalev will re-sign because someone is bound to offer him one last big payday, and I don't think his ego would accept taking the reduced salary Gainey will/SHOULD offer him.

brisebois DEFINITELY does not get another contract

Tanguay-Koivu-D'ago
Kost jr- Pleks- Kost
Higgins- Chipchura- Lats
Kosto- Lapierre- Laraque/Stewart
(Maxwell/Pacioretty as first injury call ups)

Markov-Komi
Hamrlik-Gorges
O'byrne- UFA/Emelin/Carle/Weber

Price
Halak

barring a major trade (that brings us in a superstar a la Kovalchuk), or a serious injury, I bet our roster looks pretty much like this on opening day next season
Even if I don't consider him a must-sign, I agree that we should bring back Kostopoulos.

Despite the importance of Koivu's leadership, I would put Tanguay ahead of Koivu simply because of age. We get a guaranteed top-notch winger for a few years.

They're not competing directly against each other because they play different positions (the Habs need both a frontline Cs and Ws), and I think the Habs are looking to negotiate different types of contracts with them.

To put it in a more diplomatic way:

#1 C target: Koivu
#1 W target: Tanguay
# 1 D target: Komisarek

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Old
12-04-2008, 11:44 AM
  #27
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I would only take Kovalev back on one year deals. He's not worth the headaches anymore.

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Old
12-04-2008, 11:44 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
I agree with pretty much everything said in this post.

Koivu, Kovalev, Tanguay and Komisarek are the UFA's that matter. The question is: if all 4 cannot be resigned because of cap space, who do you not re-sign?
Definately Kovalev. Wouldn't want to get rid of a centerman, Tanguay just got here, and Komi seems to be unreplaceable as far as talent and leadership are concerned.

The fact that "some" players need to play away from Kovy to do better makes me think that he's not a must. Still he shouldn't be disregarded without knowing his demands.

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12-04-2008, 11:47 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Koivu
Tanguay
Komisarek

and maybe Kostopoulos/Bouillon depends how much they wants
Fixed for me, just added Boullion in there.

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12-04-2008, 11:47 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Koivu
Tanguay
Komisarek

and maybe Kostopoulos depends how much he wants
I agree with this. Depending on the team's evaluation of the young d-men, Bouillon could be a short-term fix if the price is right. Dandenault could be gone during this season, Brisebois will hopefully retire on a good note.

I think Kovalev's price will probably be too high. Lang's too. That will provide some space to re-sign the RFAs (Plekanec, Higgins, Latendresse, Chipchura, D'Agostini) plus Price and S.Kostitsyn the next year. I like Bégin and he's been playing well lately, but there just won't be place for him.

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Old
12-04-2008, 11:47 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by David_99 View Post
Could we afford an UFA D? They're pretty expensive. We'd probably have to trade for another D if Cube leaves. That last pairing seems a little scary unless O'Byrne picks it up enough that we only need to worry about one rookie D.
It's quite possible that he does pick it up. This may be his sophmore jinx.

How about this?

Komi-Markov
Weber-Hamrlik
O'Byrne-Gorges
Emelin

If he doesn't pick it up, well let's just hope that Gainey has a contingency plan.

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Old
12-04-2008, 11:50 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
Koivu, Kovalev, Tanguay and Komisarek are the UFA's that matter. The question is: if all 4 cannot be resigned because of cap space, who do you not re-sign?
To me, it's pretty simple. I sign 3 guys first, to terms I'm comfortable with. The guy I don't sign is the one who is left over when the music stops.

It doesn't really matter which one, to me. Arguably, age, position makes Komisarek the most important of all. But I'd still apply the same policy. If Komisarek was the last man standing, I'd make sure I was ready to get a D on July 1st.

Of course, if Kovalev can't pick up his game (I expect that he will), then he's kind of lingering at the back of the line for the moment. But assuming the season ends and I want all 4 back and for whatever budgetary reasons I can only have 3, I just take the 3 best contracts that the players will agree to, no other favouritism involved (except in my own perception of what makes a good contract!).

I suppose the potential that teams start planning for a recession-influenced cap-contraction in 2010-11 might make it more likely that we can't have all 3 (although there's a counterargument inherent there that also says it could make it *more* likely, if the UFA market as a whole is in recession this year due to that advance planning factor). But until I see those things really happening, or until I hear some more definitive hints from the players, I'm going to sleep comfortably assuming that all 4 will be back, however.

You can't scare me, Pierre and Gord!

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Old
12-04-2008, 12:04 PM
  #33
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A bunch of UFA's...Cap coming down...A bunch of prospects ready to jump next year...

What's the problem again?


Last edited by AH: 12-04-2008 at 12:14 PM.
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Old
12-04-2008, 12:07 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
there's no way Kostopoulos stays. I think the 4th line on the 1st game next season will be Laraque-Chipchura-Lappierre with Stewart and White as substitutes
LETS HAVE PROSPECTS PLAY ONCE EVERY 3-4 GAMES. WOOO!!

No way Ryan White is a sub, unless its playoffs and the 'Dogs are out. White will have to make the top-9 forward group to be on the Canadiens roster.

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Old
12-04-2008, 12:08 PM
  #35
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Re-sign Tanguay, Koivu, Komisarek and Kostopoulos. Kovalev is dependent on his performance, but probably shouldn't be resigned if the cap goes down. The rest can be replaced from within the organization.

Doing the numbers for next year, if we sign the following at those numbers: Koivu (4,750,000 NTC), Tanguay (5,500,000), Komisarek (4,750,000), Plekanec (4,000,000), Higgins (3,500,000), Latendresse (1,800,000), Chipchura (800,000) and D'Agostini (1,000,000), then that leaves about 51,522,000 on the payroll (including rookie contracts for Weber, Carle, Maxwell, Stewart) which is easily workable.


Last edited by TCIH: 12-04-2008 at 12:13 PM.
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Old
12-04-2008, 12:11 PM
  #36
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Must Sign:
Saku Koivu ($3-5M)
Mike Komisarek ($4-5M)
Alex Tanguay ($4-6M)

Might Sign
Robert Lang ($2.5-3M)
Alex Kovalev ($3-5M)
Tom Kostopolous ($500K-$1M)

Can be replaced by Rookies
Patrice Brisebois
Francis Bouillion
Steve Begin
Mattieu Dandenault

The real issue is our RFAs:

09: Higgins, Plekanec, Latendresse and D'Agostini
10: Price, Halak, Lapierre, Sergei Kostitsyn

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Old
12-04-2008, 12:13 PM
  #37
beowulf
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Must sign for me Komi and Saku

I really hope we do --> Tanguay and Kosto

Would be nice --> Kovy and Lang

the rest....meh.

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Old
12-04-2008, 12:15 PM
  #38
Chomsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AH View Post
A bunch of UFA's...Cap coming down...A bunch of prospects ready to jump next year...

What's the problem again?
It shouldn't come down next season, but remain stable. In 2010-11, it will come down.

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Old
12-04-2008, 12:19 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
It shouldn't come down next season, but remain stable. In 2010-11, it will come down.
You know what I mean...Signing all these UFA's needs to be carfully looked at as to who is best value. Rushing to sign these guys, even some of the RFA's to be, is just foolish.

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Old
12-04-2008, 12:20 PM
  #40
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It all depends on what they're asking for. Even if someone really wants Koivu back, he's not coming back if he wants 6 or 7 million. Same goes for Komisarek... it would be nice to have him back but not for top-pairing money. I'd rather put it towards an actual top-pairing d-man.

Keep in mind the economic recession.

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Old
12-04-2008, 12:27 PM
  #41
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5-Tom Kostopoulos RW $900,000
Nice foot soldier, I'd keep him ahead of Begin and Dandenault. 1-2 year deal around same range.

1-Saku Koivu C $4,500,000 NTC
The #1 priority, he is flying this year with a bit less ice time. Hopefully we can get him signed for 2-3 years for about the same maybe a small raise(3 years 6.5 mil 5 mil 2.5 mil, 4.7 cap hit)

4-Alex Tanguay LW $5,375,000
I loved him early on, seems to have gone back to playing like in Calgary, lots of flash, no production. Jury is very much out, he will cost about 20-22 mil over 4 years, not sure if I pay that.

6-Robert Lang C $4,000,000
I think he will walk after the season, possibly brought back for 3-3.5 for one year depending on other moves as a plan B.

8-Steve Bégin LW/C $1,300,000
I think he's done his time, need the room for Stewart and D'agostini.

10-Mathieu Dandenault RW/D $1,750,000
See Begin.

3-Alex Kovalev RW NTC [not to Western Conf prior to 1/31/09 w/o consent] $4,500,000
It will depend on how the season unfolds. I'd like to see him retained for 2 maybe 3 years front loaded if he finishes strong. Like Koivu I think we could get him for about a 5 mil cap hit as a home town discount,he has a couple good years left.


2-Mike Komisarek D $1,900,000
He's #2 on my list after Koivu and before Kovalev right now. Down year but a very useful and productive player. Will get 5+ on the UFA market. Hopefully we can sign him for 5-6 years and front load the deal(6 mil, 5 mil, 5 mil, 4 mil 2.5 mil...4.5 mil cap hit)

7-Francis Bouillon D $1,875,000
Depending on trades, I wouldn't mind having him back for 1-2 years. Very stready and underrated. In today's maket would cost about the same.

9-Patrice Brisebois D $750,000
I think his time is up, next year, you'll see O'byrne, Valentenko, Carle, Weber battle for the #6-7 spots.

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Old
12-04-2008, 12:31 PM
  #42
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Tom Kostopoulos $900,000 - if he resigns at that amount he would be great value but I doubt how much more Gainey would be willing to go. Maybe as high as Begin's or Dandenault's present contract.

Saku Koivu $4,500,000 NTC - this would be interesting. Whatever Koivu signs for (if he signs) could affect other signings. Does Bob give Koivu as much as Tanguay and also keep Tanguay or does he ask Tanguay to take a cut (not likely) or does he get rid of one of the two?

Alex Tanguay $5,375,000 - see above.

Robert Lang $4,000,000 - will he take a cut? If he expects the same I think he'll be gone.

Steve Bégin $1,300,000 - with all the prospects knocking on the door I'm sorry to say he may be gone.

Mathieu Dandenault $1,750,000 - He's gone but I would not be surprised if Gainey signs for less.

Alex Kovalev $4,500,000 - my gut feeling is that Gainey signs him but with the same salary. It would be up to Kovy to accept or reject.

Mike Komisarek $1,900,000 - no brainer

Francis Bouillon $1,875,000 - you sign - no brainer at the same rate.

Patrice Brisebois $750,000 - go drive your sportscar please.


Last edited by onice: 12-04-2008 at 12:51 PM.
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Old
12-04-2008, 12:32 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I would only take Kovalev back on one year deals. He's not worth the headaches anymore.
In the last 10-12 games Tanguay gives me a lot more headaches than Kovalev. Tanguay seems to be falling back to playing soft and on the perimiter like in Calgary.

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Old
12-04-2008, 12:36 PM
  #44
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It shouldn't come down next season, but remain stable. In 2010-11, it will come down.
I don't think it will ever come down in the next two years. They will either augment it (in the outcome that revenues go up) or let it stand at the same amount and let the escrow take care of any amount missing at the end of the season for what's missing in the 43-44% of revenues the league is supposed to have.

Lowering the cap would mean lowering salaries by the same percentage. If the league wants the NHLPA to agree to a new CBA in two years and a half, they won't lower the cap, unless the difference is more than what the escrow account can handle.

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Old
12-04-2008, 12:37 PM
  #45
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Hmm... people here really want to resign Kovalev?


that sucks bad

Koivu
Komisarek
Tanguay
Kostopoulos

nothing more thats it


Tanguay-Koivu-Andrei K
Latendresse-Plekanec-Sergei K
Higgins-Chipchura-Kostopoulos/pacioretty
Laraque-Lapierre-Stewart/Kostopoulos

Extra: Kostopoulos (if Pac and Stewart play)

Markov-Komisarek
Harmlik-O'Byrne
Gorges-Weber/Subban/Carle/McDonagh/whatever young goalie that impress us

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Old
12-04-2008, 12:51 PM
  #46
Joe Cole
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I agree (mostly) with Blind Gardian.

Tom Kostopoulos ---------replaceable
Saku Koivu ------------need to sign
Alex Tanguay --------------would be nice if at a lower $. The local angle helps
Robert Lang ---------would be nice but... we can find another
Steve Bégin ---------- would be nice, but replaceable
Mathieu Dandenault ------gone
Alex Kovalev -----------would be nice, but....$$ has to be right.
Mike Komisarek ----need to sign
Francis Bouillon-------------could be next year's insurance policy a a discount
Patrice Brisebois -----------retires with honour.

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Old
12-04-2008, 12:56 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by zurg999 View Post
I like Pierre as an analyst, but he’s really got to stop focusing on the 10 UFAs we have after this year. He mentions it at every opportunity like the sky will fall next season. Here’s the list (thanks to Thief50):

Tom Kostopoulos RW $900,000
Saku Koivu C $4,500,000 NTC
Alex Tanguay LW $5,375,000
Robert Lang C $4,000,000

Steve Bégin LW/C $1,300,000
Mathieu Dandenault RW/D $1,750,000
Alex Kovalev RW NTC [not to Western Conf prior to 1/31/09 w/o consent] $4,500,000
Mike Komisarek D $1,900,000
Francis Bouillon D $1,875,000
Patrice Brisebois D $750,000


At least he can count. So who of the above are ‘must sign’ players and who are ‘like to sign’ players’? I count two musts in Koivu and Komisarek. Beyond Komi, I can’t see any that would need to be signed at more than current salary. I see several more I’d like to see stay but from the remainder, a few have salaries above their value and some should just move on to make room for prospects. The only one I’d qualify would be Kovy, but I’m not sold on him being the piece that brings this organization a Cup.

Here’s the true value in the strength of the Hab’s prospect depth and the UFA market. There are players ready step in or available at all the above positions. Gainey does not need to be held for ransom. Someone should tell Pierre.

It depends on several factors, in particular, skill level, contract terms and if there is someone in the organization to replace the player. Actually, also, is there someone outside the organization to replace the player.

Without looking up pending UFA's:
Gone:
  • Brisebois
  • Bouillion
  • Dandenault
  • Begin
  • Robert Lang

Just an opportunity to use those funds better.

I hope he stays:
  • Kostopoulos - he is cheap, brings some sandpaper to the team and is great for the bottom 2 lines

Must Keep:
  • Mike Komisarek
  • Saku Koivu

Komi is the mainstay for the future and I think Koivu's leadership is so important to this team. Plus, he can still play, is always great in the playoffs.

If the price is right
  • Alex Tanguay LW
  • Alex Kovalev RW

I think both players have a place on the team moving forward but terms will be important, especially with Kovy.

It is also early to decide...let's see how the season plays out with these players and our prospects.

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Old
12-04-2008, 12:56 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
We need to keep anybody who can't be replace by the players in the organization AND we can't replace them by anybody else outside of it. But then, letting all 10 go is not good 'cause you might need some kind of continuity. Which is why for me the only guys that are "must" are:

Koivu
Komisarek
Tanguay (could be replace by outside talent, but just got here, was acquired for first and 2nd round picks, local talent...)

Only question mark is Kovalev.

Like Kosto and some of the rest, but they can be replaced and cheaper.
Kostopoulos isn't really an issue, unless he's looking for a raise. He isn't overpaid at $900,000.

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Old
12-04-2008, 12:57 PM
  #49
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Kostopoulos isn't really an issue, unless he's looking for a raise. He isn't overpaid at $900,000.
He's not overpaid, but he's overplayed.

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Old
12-04-2008, 12:58 PM
  #50
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Re-sign Tanguay, Koivu, Komisarek and Kostopoulos. Kovalev is dependent on his performance, but probably shouldn't be resigned if the cap goes down. The rest can be replaced from within the organization.

Doing the numbers for next year, if we sign the following at those numbers: Koivu (4,750,000 NTC), Tanguay (5,500,000), Komisarek (4,750,000), Plekanec (4,000,000), Higgins (3,500,000), Latendresse (1,800,000), Chipchura (800,000) and D'Agostini (1,000,000), then that leaves about 51,522,000 on the payroll (including rookie contracts for Weber, Carle, Maxwell, Stewart) which is easily workable.
Why is D'Ago getting a million. He hasn't done a thing yet.

It is actually fairly common for players to sign their second contract for an amount that is less than their entry level contract except this second contract is a one-way contract. I can see him signing for 650-750 K. Higgins will have to prove that he is as good as AKost to get the same money. I see 2.5 to a maximum of 3 for him. And I don't think Lats is worth that much yet. Maybe 1.1, 1.2 for him. Gainey can always use the fact that he spends a lot of time in the press box still.

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