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Conklin Signed - Long Term

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Old
07-19-2004, 04:58 PM
  #126
Asiaoil
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Fernandez (a 40 game tandem goalie) re-signs at $2.2 million

http://www.tsn.ca/news_story.asp?ID=91598

Yeah this Conklin contract is looking worse and worse

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Old
07-19-2004, 05:09 PM
  #127
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Fernandez____34GP___2.49GAA___.915SV%___$2.2millio n
Conklin_______42GP___2.42GAA___.912SV%___$1.5milli on

not bad at all

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Old
07-19-2004, 05:16 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaoil
Fernandez (a 40 game tandem goalie) re-signs at $2.2 million

http://www.tsn.ca/news_story.asp?ID=91598

Yeah this Conklin contract is looking worse and worse
Well Fernandez has played several seasons, most of them successful. So there really isn't much to compare to.

Aebisher is at the career point, right now, that we hope Conklin to be at in two years.

.
.

The interesting comparables are Cristobal Huet, and to a lesser extent Vesa Toskala. I'm sure that both will use Conklin as a comp in their arbitration hearings.

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07-19-2004, 05:37 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igor
Well Fernandez has played several seasons, most of them successful. So there really isn't much to compare to.

Aebisher is at the career point, right now, that we hope Conklin to be at in two years.

The interesting comparables are Cristobal Huet, and to a lesser extent Vesa Toskala. I'm sure that both will use Conklin as a comp in their arbitration hearings.

Yes, but this brings up an interesting point. You can't simply make comparisons based on what other players have already accomplished in the NHL, you also have to take into consideration potential. This is, of course, the same trap that NHL arbritation falls into.

To use an extreme example, would you insist on signing Ovechkin to the same kind of contract as any other entry level player because neither of them have proven anything in the NHL? Of course not, because we believe that Ovechkin has the ability to accomplish more than most first year players.

Lowe has clearly believes that Conklin has the ability to accomplish more than other young goalies. NHL stats are only one piece of the overall evaluation puzzle, and it is pretty hard to make hard and fast comparisons between any two players based only on stats.

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Old
07-19-2004, 05:55 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igor
Aebisher is at the career point, right now, that we hope Conklin to be at in two years.
I'm curious as too why you say that. Not picking at your point, seriously asking.

I figured Aibescher and Conklin are excellent comparables right now....

Fernandez not so much because as mentioned he has been around for quite awhile...despite some serious ups and downs.

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07-19-2004, 06:12 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PineJockey
Yes, but this brings up an interesting point. You can't simply make comparisons based on what other players have already accomplished in the NHL, you also have to take into consideration potential. This is, of course, the same trap that NHL arbritation falls into.

To use an extreme example, would you insist on signing Ovechkin to the same kind of contract as any other entry level player because neither of them have proven anything in the NHL? Of course not, because we believe that Ovechkin has the ability to accomplish more than most first year players.

Lowe has clearly believes that Conklin has the ability to accomplish more than other young goalies. NHL stats are only one piece of the overall evaluation puzzle, and it is pretty hard to make hard and fast comparisons between any two players based only on stats.
I agree with all of your post. Clearly Lowe & Co. see something in Conklin, they have faith. I hope they are right. But the fact that a lot of gms have 'had faith' in the past is a large part of the reason that the last CBA hasn't worked.

So if you're Vesa Toskala's agent ... and you've seen what Conklin signed for, how in gawd's name can you expect your client to settle for less? In almost every measureable way ... Toskala has accomplished more.

And if you are the arbitrator at the Toskala hearing, and you're a reasonable man, how can you possibly justify NOT giving Toskala more? Lowe, of his own free will, has signed this deal with Conklin, the market is set ... how could you rationalize a decision that WOULDN'T see Toskala being paid more? I suppose that S.Js lawyers could argue that Lowe took an ill-advised leap of faith and paid over market value ... but it's a moot point, that IS the new market value. By definition.

And if you're Cristobal Huet's agent ... you've got to expect similar. Maybe Gainey doesn't have as much faith in Huet, or would prefer not to risk that kind of money on someone who has faced so few shots ... doesn't matter much now. Because Lowe DID pay Conklin that kind of money, and any reasonable man looking at the player profiles and meaningful results would have to say that Huet deserves to be paid a similar amount. It's only fair to Huet.

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07-19-2004, 06:20 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue
I'm curious as too why you say that. Not picking at your point, seriously asking.

I figured Aibescher and Conklin are excellent comparables right now....

Fernandez not so much because as mentioned he has been around for quite awhile...despite some serious ups and downs.
I think the profile of Aebischer is similar. Three seasons ago Aebischer had a very similar campaign to the one that Conklin has just had. And Aebischer has turned out to be a very good NHL goalie.

So if you're Aebischer and you read about Conklin's contract ... you just have to be thinking "crap, I've been rodgered for the last couple of years, I shoulda been earning Conklin-dollars, dammit! :mad: ". He's two years ahead of him, sees the $2.5 club option for Conklin ... and that has to be his minimum. Sensibly. I mean if Conklin plays as well in the next two as Aebischer has ... the Oilers couldn't expect more than that, surely they will pick up the option. And he has signed for something similar to that.

I'm not an arbitrator, just pretending to be a 'reasonable man' for a day.

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07-19-2004, 07:13 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igor
I agree with all of your post. Clearly Lowe & Co. see something in Conklin, they have faith. I hope they are right. But the fact that a lot of gms have 'had faith' in the past is a large part of the reason that the last CBA hasn't worked.

So if you're Vesa Toskala's agent ... and you've seen what Conklin signed for, how in gawd's name can you expect your client to settle for less? In almost every measureable way ... Toskala has accomplished more.

And if you are the arbitrator at the Toskala hearing, and you're a reasonable man, how can you possibly justify NOT giving Toskala more? Lowe, of his own free will, has signed this deal with Conklin, the market is set ... how could you rationalize a decision that WOULDN'T see Toskala being paid more? I suppose that S.Js lawyers could argue that Lowe took an ill-advised leap of faith and paid over market value ... but it's a moot point, that IS the new market value. By definition.

And if you're Cristobal Huet's agent ... you've got to expect similar. Maybe Gainey doesn't have as much faith in Huet, or would prefer not to risk that kind of money on someone who has faced so few shots ... doesn't matter much now. Because Lowe DID pay Conklin that kind of money, and any reasonable man looking at the player profiles and meaningful results would have to say that Huet deserves to be paid a similar amount. It's only fair to Huet.
I think the big difference between Conklin and Huet/Toskala is that neither of the latter are expected to field the kind of minutes that Conklin likely will this season.

If Nabakov and Theodore start the same number of games next season as they did this past season that would leave 24 and 16 starts for Toskala and Huet respectively. Conklin's likely to start about 40 games.

From a GS perspective, if they all made the same money ($1.5M)...
Conklin = $37,500/start
Toskala = $62,500/start
Huet = $93,750/start

I run my own small business, and from my own experiences hiring staff it has been based both on their past experience and the role I expect them to play in my operations. If the individual has fewer qualifications, I'm certainly going to pay them less than someone more senior... however, if I think they are up for the challenge of a major role in my organization I will compensate them based on the position they're filling (just at the lower end).

Conklin's just been given a promotion, and since he's negotiating his salary at the same time it is reasonable for him to ask for a raise that fits his new position. However, Toskala and Huet haven't yet received that promotion so I don't hink it makes sense to use Conklin as a comparable.

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Old
07-19-2004, 07:19 PM
  #134
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The thing you have to remember is that Conklin is not a clear back-up like Toskala is or like Aebischer was a couple of years back. Like it or not hes a starter who will have substantial support from Jussi. Thats what I read from Lowes comments on this signing. As for Huet he's a back-up and will be paid accordingly. Garon may be in a similar situation in LA and he s making $1.1 million on a he contract signed as a clear backup to Theodore. If Garon was negotiating this year with LA Id bet that he would get a contract very very similar to Conks.

But really folks people are moaning about a $1-200,000. Thats chicken feed in todays NHL and its not like Conklin got a massive overpay by any stretch of the imagination.


Last edited by Asiaoil: 07-19-2004 at 09:40 PM.
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Old
07-19-2004, 07:36 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaoil
The thing you have to remember is that Conklin is not a clear back-up like Toskala is or like Aebischer was a couple of years back. Like it or not hes a starter who will have substantial support from Jussi. Thats what I read from Lowes comments on this signing. As for Huet hard to say whether he or Garon will be the starter but Im betting its Garon and he s making $1.1 million on a he contract signed as a clear backup to Theodore. If Garon was negotiating this year with LA Id bet that he would get a contract very very similar to Conks.

But really folks people are moaning about a $1-200,000. Thats chicken feed in todays NHL and its not like Conklin got a massive overpay by any stretch of the imagination.
Garon is signed for next season at 1.1M US. But that was a contract for a back-up, done by Montreal. I think Garon will start ahead of Cechmanek in LA.

Conklin's deal is fine by me. If after two years they feel that JDD is ready they can cut Conks loose or resign him as a free agent for back-up money.

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