You're going to have to deal with the fact that Deboer considers Anderson the number one goalie now and he will now have to play himself out of that role, one loss to a superior team does not constitute that, just as Vokoun played himself out of the number one job. Deboer is sending a message to the team that salaries and contracts don't matter to him, only production on the ice and a major indication of that production for a goalie is does he enable you to win games. Compare the won/loss records of the two and it isn't close.
Put Vokoun in net and we might've beaten Detroit. And put Andy in net with the team playing how it was for some of Tivo's losses and see what his stats look like then. A goalie's individual performance doesn't determine the outcome of a game. There are 18 other Panthers playing out there.
Put Vokoun in net and we might've beaten Detroit. And put Andy in net with the team playing how it was for some of Tivo's losses and see what his stats look like then. A goalie's individual performance doesn't determine the outcome of a game. There are 18 other Panthers playing out there.
It is clear the team, as a whole, has played better with Anderson in net. That alone is enough reason to keep him in goal.
We saw the difference between a cup contender and a banged up playoff contender last night. We played hard, but our AHL roster was simply outperformed in every way.
And if JM were still behind the bench you'd blame that on the coach, not the goalie.
that goes without saying
i think it's tough to make statements about how the group is playing in front of either guy because the team that went on the run was so much different than the team vokie struggled to backstop - the defense is healthy and the skilled guys who weren't getting it done are on the shelf, replaced by a hungry bunch of first year pros.
We saw the difference between a cup contender and a banged up playoff contender last night. We played hard, but our AHL roster was simply outperformed in every way.
It's that simple.
Boston's a machine this year.
Personally I think at this point the odds-on favorite for the Cup Finals have to be Boston and San Jose. Both teams seem virtually unstoppable.
But...teams like that have been beaten in the first round before.
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"...and ultimately it doesn't matter."
Who can we blame the loss on last night? Andy played well I thought, and the first two goals were both great individual efforts with traffic in front of Andy. I think the team just didnt match the intensity we have seen over the past couple of weeks. We saw if for spurts, but not for the majority of the game. We knew they needed to come out playing hard from the start, and it just wasnt there. Potvin even made the comment midway through the first, saying how they didnt come out with the same intensity.
Anderson is fine. So fine, in fact, that DeBoer is starting him in Ottawa, per George Richard's blog. I cannot express how much I disagree with that decision. Vokoun seems to be getting shafted for no reason.
Guys, it's not so much lack of effort or hard skating--did you notice how quickly and efficiently Boston moved the puck? They're a very impressive team and they belong to be where they are in the standings.
We're banged up and we were outclassed. But one thing I was happy about--the team kept working to the end.
Does Weiss have the flu? He seemed very slow tonight and coughing up the puck for the bad goal like that seems quite uncharacteristic.
And tell me something. I'm relatively new to the board--but what is it with McLean? Obviously the coach sees something in him that I don't, otherwise he wouldn't put him on the first line. But...I just don't see it. What am I missing?
Well, McLean played well last year on the first line, was a good playmaker for Olli, he worked the corners really well and drove the net with recklessness. This year he doesn't look the same, and it's reflected in his stats. But he still does good cornerwork. I think it's just a matter of, with all the injuries, who else are we going to put up there with Weiss and Frolik? McLean's a vet who scored 15 goals last year, we just don't have a lot of options IMO. This is just too many injuries up front now, we need guys back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300
Who can we blame the loss on last night? Andy played well I thought, and the first two goals were both great individual efforts with traffic in front of Andy. I think the team just didnt match the intensity we have seen over the past couple of weeks. We saw if for spurts, but not for the majority of the game. We knew they needed to come out playing hard from the start, and it just wasnt there. Potvin even made the comment midway through the first, saying how they didnt come out with the same intensity.
And then he rescinded his comment in the third period, saying that the Panthers were simply outmanned. He said that at least twice in the third and also in the postgame show. Even DeBoer when he was interviewed said he wasn't disappointed with the effort, we were just too banged up and Boston is too good. He said they could have played for another 60 minutes and they might not have scored, said that Boston just doesn't give you much room to do anything, they match anyone's intensity, and they move the puck extremely well and have 3 lines that can hurt you.
With how we were outmanned, we just couldn't establish anything offensively. Wasn't because we weren't trying. You can't go into a game against a fairly healthy Boston team with your top two lines as McLean-Weiss-Frolik, Peltonen-Campbell-Dvorak and expect to win. It'd be nice if we could, but it's just too much to ask. We need bodies back, simple as that.
I noticed how well Boston passed the puck last night, especially on long passes. We are totally opposite. When we try those same passes, they don't usually connect and end up being a change of possession.
What is with us not being able to score on backup goaltenders? Truly a mystery.
And our power play really needs to turn around. I liked how Frolik was trying to do what Kessel did on his goal. But for the most part, our power play is still your basic "shots from the point" power play. No creativity or anything. Does anyone know if Hulton runs the power play unit?
In the end, Boston is just storming right now so to lose this game isn't that unexpected. Would've liked to avoid the shutout but you'll have that. It seemed like pucks were just gravitating towards their sticks all night. Curious to see how we respond in the Ottawa game. They've picked up their play as of late. We need our key guys back soon.
I'm relatively new to the board--but what is it with McLean? Obviously the coach sees something in him that I don't, otherwise he wouldn't put him on the first line. But...I just don't see it. What am I missing?
Yeah, McLean did well last year but really has been off this year. He works really hard but just hasn't been rewarded. Still, he is a guy that we don't need to bring back next year. I'd rather give his spot to Stewart or Matthias.
Last night he was getting manhandled all night. I think he lost every battle for the puck. Not good.
I noticed how well Boston passed the puck last night, especially on long passes. We are totally opposite. When we try those same passes, they don't usually connect and end up being a change of possession.
What is with us not being able to score on backup goaltenders? Truly a mystery.
And our power play really needs to turn around. I liked how Frolik was trying to do what Kessel did on his goal. But for the most part, our power play is still your basic "shots from the point" power play. No creativity or anything. Does anyone know if Hulton runs the power play unit?
In the end, Boston is just storming right now so to lose this game isn't that unexpected. Would've liked to avoid the shutout but you'll have that. It seemed like pucks were just gravitating towards their sticks all night. Curious to see how we respond in the Ottawa game. They've picked up their play as of late. We need our key guys back soon.
when your opponent is consistently connection on those stretch passes, your forwards aren't doing their job. we weren't particularly strong in the neutral zone last night.
calling fernandez, a guy who has the longest bruin winning streak in something like 13 years, a "backup" is not really fair. he's not chopped liver.
and don't try to scapegoat hulton again there's absolutely nothing wrong with keeping the PP simple: get the puck in, win the battles, get it to the D and get bodies to the net. it's an age-old recipe for PP success. i'd say we're still not doing those basics well enough but a lot of that is execution. forget the fancy stuff at this point.
Anderson has been a better goalie than Vokoun, simple as that.
Anderson is now our No1 goalie. Tell me why he shouldn't be
If both of them were rookies this year, fighting for a spot, Vokoun would be playing in the AHL and Anderson in the NHL.
I know no one will agree with me, but here goes. Anderson's numbers are inflated due to the quality and number of shots he's seen. The team has been playing great hockey in front of him, and he really has not had to steal any games. The game that everyone always points out is the Anaheim game. It is the most overused and overrated game. Anaheim missed a lot of open nets. Anderson's performance was not nearly as good as people say. He's made saves and been above average in some games, but put Vokoun in there and the outcome is the same if the team plays the same.
You can argue each of the three goals Anderson let in last night were weak. I will give him the benefit of the doubt on the second one because he was screened. Unless Anderson is declared the clear starter, he should not be starting on Monday. It's kind of hard for Vokoun to take back the #1 spot if he never plays.
If DeBoer intends on playing Anderson after sub-par games, it's time to trade Vokoun. He is far too good to be sitting out. I honestly really hope Vokoun just asks for a trade.
I know no one will agree with me, but here goes. Anderson's numbers are inflated due to the quality and number of shots he's seen. The team has been playing great hockey in front of him, and he really has not had to steal any games. The game that everyone always points out is the Anaheim game. It is the most overused and overrated game. Anaheim missed a lot of open nets. Anderson's performance was not nearly as good as people say. He's made saves and been above average in some games, but put Vokoun in there and the outcome is the same if the team plays the same.
You can argue each of the three goals Anderson let in last night were weak. I will give him the benefit of the doubt on the second one because he was screened. Unless Anderson is declared the clear starter, he should not be starting on Monday. It's kind of hard for Vokoun to take back the #1 spot if he never plays.
If DeBoer intends on playing Anderson after sub-par games, it's time to trade Vokoun. He is far too good to be sitting out. I honestly really hope Vokoun just asks for a trade.
I agree with you. The team playing in front of Anderson wasn't the team playing in front of Vokoun. The team that played in front of Vokoun was the team that wouldn't help out Vokoun at all. That's hardly Vokoun's fault. Yeah, he let in a few soft goals but so has Anderson. Why not give Vokoun the start in Ottawa to redeem himself?
Also wont be surprised if he asks for a trade, if this continues, that is.
I know no one will agree with me, but here goes. Anderson's numbers are inflated due to the quality and number of shots he's seen. The team has been playing great hockey in front of him, and he really has not had to steal any games. The game that everyone always points out is the Anaheim game. It is the most overused and overrated game. Anaheim missed a lot of open nets. Anderson's performance was not nearly as good as people say. He's made saves and been above average in some games, but put Vokoun in there and the outcome is the same if the team plays the same.
You can argue each of the three goals Anderson let in last night were weak. I will give him the benefit of the doubt on the second one because he was screened. Unless Anderson is declared the clear starter, he should not be starting on Monday. It's kind of hard for Vokoun to take back the #1 spot if he never plays.
If DeBoer intends on playing Anderson after sub-par games, it's time to trade Vokoun. He is far too good to be sitting out. I honestly really hope Vokoun just asks for a trade.
i don't think anyone would argue that andy was fantastic last night. pdb even said "we didn't get the big saves" at the post game press conference. and i will actually agree with you to an extent about andy's numbers. i've already said it before - this is a much different team (in every sense - style, personnel, energy, confidence) than the one that played in front of vokie. having said that, i think you are selling andy short. he's played very solid and, yes, has been better than vokoun. so though i think you can second guess PDB a bit, i'm perfectly fine with andy continuing to start.
You can argue each of the three goals Anderson let in last night were weak. I will give him the benefit of the doubt on the second one because he was screened. Unless Anderson is declared the clear starter, he should not be starting on Monday. It's kind of hard for Vokoun to take back the #1 spot if he never plays.
If DeBoer intends on playing Anderson after sub-par games, it's time to trade Vokoun. He is far too good to be sitting out. I honestly really hope Vokoun just asks for a trade.
I agree with you about Vokoun's role on this team. He was playing most of his games behind a team that hadn't quite gelled, so a lot of those rebounds weren't cleared, and a few defensive assignments were missed. The team has started to play better as a defensive unit, and maybe that does make Andy look better. I don't mind Andy getting a shot at the #1 job, and if he earns it, that only puts the team in a better position. If Andy proves to be the go to goalie, and if there is a deal out there that would really address this teams other needs, I think JM will deal Vokoun. As of now, I feel bad for Tomas, but it's not the worst position to be in; who out there wouldn't sign on for 5+ million if the downside is only feeling a little under appreciated?
So, as for people agreeing with you, I think just about everybody would agree that Vokoun played behind a much different team.
Why was Sprukts and McArdel send back to Rochester? Are they expecting that some of 5 injured players will play on monday? or trade happening soon? or is it just one way to save money?
when your opponent is consistently connection on those stretch passes, your forwards aren't doing their job. we weren't particularly strong in the neutral zone last night.
calling fernandez, a guy who has the longest bruin winning streak in something like 13 years, a "backup" is not really fair. he's not chopped liver.
and don't try to scapegoat hulton again there's absolutely nothing wrong with keeping the PP simple: get the puck in, win the battles, get it to the D and get bodies to the net. it's an age-old recipe for PP success. i'd say we're still not doing those basics well enough but a lot of that is execution. forget the fancy stuff at this point.
Easy killer... I wasn't dissing Manny, I know exactly what he can bring to the table. I just said what's the deal with us having trouble with backup goaltenders. I can use the term "the other goaltender besides the starter" if that is more PC for you.
And just for the record, I haven't said a word about Hulton. I've said things about Kitchen before, but not Hulton. I just asked a simple question. Don't get so defensive.
Why was Sprukts and McArdel send back to Rochester? Are they expecting that some of 5 injured players will play on monday? or trade happening soon? or is it just one way to save money?
JOL
Richards says they could be back tommorrow, unless a trade is in the works. Stillman has been skating at practice, but he apparently gets migranes before game time. maybe he's feeling better.
__________________ Gudbranson fanboy and defender for liiiiiife!
Referees were prety bad last night, but that wasn't close to why we lost, Boston just pushed us around all night. Our AHLers weren't enough for those guys.
I know no one will agree with me, but here goes. Anderson's numbers are inflated due to the quality and number of shots he's seen. The team has been playing great hockey in front of him, and he really has not had to steal any games. The game that everyone always points out is the Anaheim game. It is the most overused and overrated game. Anaheim missed a lot of open nets. Anderson's performance was not nearly as good as people say. He's made saves and been above average in some games, but put Vokoun in there and the outcome is the same if the team plays the same.
You can argue each of the three goals Anderson let in last night were weak. I will give him the benefit of the doubt on the second one because he was screened. Unless Anderson is declared the clear starter, he should not be starting on Monday. It's kind of hard for Vokoun to take back the #1 spot if he never plays.
If DeBoer intends on playing Anderson after sub-par games, it's time to trade Vokoun. He is far too good to be sitting out. I honestly really hope Vokoun just asks for a trade.
T-Vo has played 4 more games than Andy. I don't think anything is unfair to T-Vo at the moment. He'll get his opportunity sooner or later, he just has to be patient which I think he is. Everyone questions Andy's abilities to be a starter but you'll never know unless you play him for a good stretch of games. Andy's numbers have been better so far this season (for whatever reason) and I don't mind if he gets a stretch of games to see what he can do.
there's absolutely nothing wrong with keeping the PP simple: get the puck in, win the battles, get it to the D and get bodies to the net. it's an age-old recipe for PP success. i'd say we're still not doing those basics well enough but a lot of that is execution. forget the fancy stuff at this point.
