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OT : I can't see why Tampa would hang on to Vinny.

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Old
12-09-2008, 09:25 AM
  #26
ZARTONK
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When the ship goes down, first class is usually on the lifeboat first
wow.. well said

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12-09-2008, 09:34 AM
  #27
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I read somewhere that the new Tampa owners are already strapped for cash!

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12-09-2008, 10:02 AM
  #28
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Vinny made and chose his bed.
10 mil per season in the palm trees where nobody knows your name.
Golf starts in April every year.

We all Know what Vinny chose, " not us"

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12-09-2008, 10:24 AM
  #29
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Although very unlikely, I'd offer (but only at deadline or season's end) :

Plekanec, Latendresse, Halak, Carle or Weber or Fischer (preferably Carle) and the 2010 1st pick (and other picks other than 1st if needed).

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12-09-2008, 10:47 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Tampa could fetch the #1 next year, and save 8 million a year by trading Vinny. They would get a nice return for him, and could rebuild with the package they get in return.

So, guess what I'm asking is.. anyone see a reason to keep him if you are the Tampa Bay Lightning, and could BG make a reasonable offer for him?
Doesn't Ottawa have Tampa's 2009 1st from the Meszaros trade? That would be reason not to gun for the top pick, that is if you were referring to the 2009 draft.

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12-09-2008, 10:49 AM
  #31
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He knew what was coming and he signed a 10 years deal. If right now he's unhappy he's the most stupid guy on earth. You CANT be unhappy when you arent even halfway thru a contract. If you do then you're dumb.

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12-09-2008, 11:04 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by kostitsyn1489 View Post
He knew what was coming and he signed a 10 years deal. If right now he's unhappy he's the most stupid guy on earth. You CANT be unhappy when you arent even halfway thru a contract. If you do then you're dumb.
As if you've never made a bad decision in your life. Come on, be a little more empathic and considerate than this. At least try to put yourself in his skin and think of the possibilities and factors that came into his decision. That decision was not as easy to make as you believe. He's not a robot, he's a friggin human for crying out loud.

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12-09-2008, 11:19 AM
  #33
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Ah it must be Christmas soon. Talks about Vinny coming to Montreal are heating up once again!!!

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12-09-2008, 11:19 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
As if you've never made a bad decision in your life. Come on, be a little more empathic and considerate than this. At least try to put yourself in his skin and think of the possibilities and factors that came into his decision. That decision was not as easy to make as you believe. He's not a robot, he's a friggin human for crying out loud.
I take bad dacisions every day.

Stil he knew what were the +'s and the -'s.

Sunny all year, cash, he knew the team, etc, but he also knew the team would suck, had unsure owners and have no idea how to manage a hockey team.

So if the team sucks it's "normal" it was one of the downside already you cant complain about that you knew it.

You dont sign a 10 years contract if you're unsure. You cant just be unhappy after 2 months, if the risk were high snough so he could be unhappy after 2 months, dont sign for 10 years.

That said, it's more speculation then anything.

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12-09-2008, 11:34 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by kostitsyn1489 View Post
I take bad dacisions every day.

Stil he knew what were the +'s and the -'s.

Sunny all year, cash, he knew the team, etc, but he also knew the team would suck, had unsure owners and have no idea how to manage a hockey team.

So if the team sucks it's "normal" it was one of the downside already you cant complain about that you knew it.

You dont sign a 10 years contract if you're unsure. You cant just be unhappy after 2 months, if the risk were high snough so he could be unhappy after 2 months, dont sign for 10 years.

That said, it's more speculation then anything.

No actually, it's not speculation. Vinny said it himself when he signed. The new owners promised him to be making moves to upgrade the team. And the team did make a lot of moves to improve the team, and Vinny thought there was a lot of hope in this, as he was not the only one who was impressed by the moves and signings. A lot of people even put them into the playoffs in their predictions (not me!) before the start of the season. Then you have to think at the whole process of signing. For a player, a 10 year contract, whatever the situation might be, is money in the bank, whether he plays through it or gets bought back. Even if there was doubt that lingered, do you actually believe anyone would refuse 85 mil for 10 years, especially since he was injured at the end of the season and any player will tell you after a big injury that they are never sure they'll be back up to how they were before. It happened to a lot of players, so accepting this money, while his rep was still high up there, was a smart thing to do, whatever the consequences are regarding hockey and how the team plays.

So calling him stupid is just that.

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12-09-2008, 11:35 AM
  #36
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its funny you mention Richards. I was thinking maybe Dallas wouldn't mind make a change in order to get Vinny and it's close to Tampa

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12-09-2008, 11:37 AM
  #37
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BTW I think ne1 who thinks lecavalier will be leaving is crazy.

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12-09-2008, 11:46 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
No actually, it's not speculation. Vinny said it himself when he signed. The new owners promised him to be making moves to upgrade the team. And the team did make a lot of moves to improve the team, and Vinny thought there was a lot of hope in this, as he was not the only one who was impressed by the moves and signings. A lot of people even put them into the playoffs in their predictions (not me!) before the start of the season. Then you have to think at the whole process of signing. For a player, a 10 year contract, whatever the situation might be, is money in the bank, whether he plays through it or gets bought back. Even if there was doubt that lingered, do you actually believe anyone would refuse 85 mil for 10 years, especially since he was injured at the end of the season and any player will tell you after a big injury that they are never sure they'll be back up to how they were before. It happened to a lot of players, so accepting this money, while his rep was still high up there, was a smart thing to do, whatever the consequences are regarding hockey and how the team plays.

So calling him stupid is just that.
Ok i didnt know he officially said he was unhappy. I know why he signed, as you said 85M for 10 years is great, but if you sign for money, dont complain that your team suck. I had them dead last in the east and thats pretty much where they are. No depth, bunch of guys 10 years over the hill and no goalie and no future except in net.

If he thought the risk were low enough to sign a 10 years 85M contract 2 months ago it should be the same now. It cant totally change in 2 months. If so the risk were way too high to link yourself to a team for 10 years and if he did for money then money is still there so he shouldnt complain.

He couldve EASILY move to a team with a brighter future after this season, but he said no I'll stay with this team, they suck live with it.

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Old
12-09-2008, 12:32 PM
  #39
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BTW I meant this as a topic where I could see Vinny being moved from Tampa, but not necessarily here. It doesn't make sense to keep him in Tampa.

Star power doesn't matter, and he's too expensive. Just a thought.

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Old
12-09-2008, 12:42 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
BTW I meant this as a topic where I could see Vinny being moved from Tampa, but not necessarily here. It doesn't make sense to keep him in Tampa.

Star power doesn't matter, and he's too expensive. Just a thought.
7,7 cap hit for a franchise big center who happens to be one hell of a sniper? That's not much when you consider Malkin, Crosby and Ovy all make more than him.

I've never been big on Lecavalier, never a fan of his... but he's actually what we need, and he'd be pretty nice alongside AndreiK and Tanguay, Tanguay who's actually the kinda playmaker that would create a great duo with Vinny.

Pleks will be getting around 4 mil next season. Nix him and Kovy and you've got quite enough cap space for Vinny...

Anyway, its just wishful thinking.

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12-09-2008, 12:44 PM
  #41
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BTW I think ne1 who thinks lecavalier will be leaving is crazy.
With the old ownership group in Tampa, I would have agreed. But with the new group that is now running things. Anything is possible.

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12-09-2008, 12:49 PM
  #42
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With the old ownership group in Tampa, I would have agreed. But with the new group that is now running things. Anything is possible.
Yeah, especially after they pulled that stunt on Dan Boyle.

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12-09-2008, 01:20 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Yeah, especially after they pulled that stunt on Dan Boyle.
His name was the first I thought of while I was typing my last post. I really don't think the ownership in Tampa know what they are doing. I see them painting themselves in a corner *cap wise* and ending up with no choice but to move Vinny. Maybe not this year, but I could see it happening in the future.

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12-09-2008, 01:33 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
7,7 cap hit for a franchise big center who happens to be one hell of a sniper? That's not much when you consider Malkin, Crosby and Ovy all make more than him.
You have to think, from an ownership point of view ... that they could live without Vinny and his contract and rebuild with a cheap, but talented package they could get in return.

Tampa isn't going to make the playoffs this year, and they are going to bleed money. I can't imagine the new ownership being a big fan of a high paid player, having a poor year.. on a bad team.. for the next 3-5 years it will take to rebuild.

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Pleks will be getting around 4 mil next season. Nix him and Kovy and you've got quite enough cap space for Vinny...

Anyway, its just wishful thinking.
I suppose, but I do think its reasonable to think he is obtainable at this point forward. Plus, you have to think the cap is going to drop next year as well... or at least it looks that way.

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12-09-2008, 02:16 PM
  #45
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Doesn't Ottawa have Tampa's 2009 1st from the Meszaros trade? That would be reason not to gun for the top pick, that is if you were referring to the 2009 draft.
Outch!! Poor Lightning, its even worst than I thought... Tavares with Ottawa?

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12-09-2008, 02:18 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
You have to think, from an ownership point of view ... that they could live without Vinny and his contract and rebuild with a cheap, but talented package they could get in return.

Tampa isn't going to make the playoffs this year, and they are going to bleed money. I can't imagine the new ownership being a big fan of a high paid player, having a poor year.. on a bad team.. for the next 3-5 years it will take to rebuild.
My comment was meant more towards the Habs and Lecavalier, than the Lightning and Lecavalier.


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I suppose, but I do think its reasonable to think he is obtainable at this point forward. Plus, you have to think the cap is going to drop next year as well... or at least it looks that way.
The cap can't actually drop. If the cap would drop, this means the bulk of salaries that were signed will add-up to more than 57% of revenues, which will mean a sureshot cap bust league-wide (in total amount per the 57%). If ever the cap 'would' drop, the salaries would too accordingly, all depending on the actual % of player league-wide salaries. What will probably happen is that they'll keep the cap at a status quo, and use the escrow account to leviate any losses to the revenues per the 57% maximum of revenues that the players can get. According to sources in the media that I've read, they say next season the cap might rise a little, meaning that revenues will still be up a bit compared to the previous year. They say its the following season, 2010-2011 that the cap will be tight to actual revenues. Meaning they will have to empty a part or completely the escrow account, still then, the cap won't drop, IMO. There is no actual clause that I've read concerning a cap drop versus salaries. But the logic has always been to fit/tie the salaries to 55-57% of revenues. That's why the players had a 24% paycut across the board when the new CBA was signed, because players were receiving 79% of league wide revenues. The logic was maintained with the escrow account, if ever the the players' salaries are higher than 55-57% of total revenues, the league gets a % of the escrow account to level the % of total revenues given to players (% equal on each player salary, like the 24% cut after the CBA was signed). Again, this logic was maintained. So in this same logic, if ever they would decide to lower the cap, players' salaries would also accordingly. But they won't lower it, because they have the escrow account that takes care of any dwindling revenues, up to a certain limit. But I guess if it does reach that critical limit, one, they would need to lower the cap and have a % cut on player salaries, and two, not too sure how this would bode for negociations for the next CBA, which are either next summer, or in two and a half years from now.

Also we have to consider if the players will agree to the two-year optional extention to the present CBA. The CBA ends after this present season, and the two optional years would run through 2009-2010 and 2010-2011.

But anyway, I'd still take the risk on Lecavalier as far as the Habs are concerned. For the Lightning, well its a different story.

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12-09-2008, 02:21 PM
  #47
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Outch!! Poor Lightning, its even worst than I thought... Tavares with Ottawa?
No, that's the pick they got from the Sharks when they traded Boyle.

They still have their 2009 1st pick.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=2479...=topStory_main

""In exchange, the Senators received defencemen Filip Kuba and Alexandre Picard and a first round pick the Lightning previously acquired from the San Jose Sharks.""

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12-09-2008, 02:22 PM
  #48
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The cap can't actually drop. If the cap would drop, this means the bulk of salaries that were signed will add-up to more than 57% of revenues, which will mean a sureshot cap bust league-wide (in total amount per the 57%).
NHL network is saying the cap will most likely drop next year.



Quote:
If ever the cap 'would' drop, the salaries would too accordingly, all depending on the actual % of player league-wide salaries. What will probably happen is that they'll keep the cap at a status quo, and use the escrow account to leviate any losses to the revenues per the 57% maximum of revenues that the players can get.
From what I've read, the escrow account is hands off and the teams will be forced to stay under the cap through evacuation of contracts.

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But anyway, I'd still take the risk on Lecavalier as far as the Habs are concerned. For the Lightning, well its a different story.
Yes, I as well.

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12-09-2008, 02:31 PM
  #49
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NHL network is saying the cap will most likely drop next year.

From what I've read, the escrow account is hands off and the teams will be forced to stay under the cap through evacuation of contracts.

Yes, I as well.
That would be totally opposite the logic of what the escrow account is about.

They don't need to lower the actual cap. The escrow account, if my memory serves me correctly, contains 10% of the player's salaries at year's end. That would equate a loss of over 5,5% of total revenues league wide, such a loss of revenues is huge. That is why they don't actually need to lower it, especially since attendance has not dwindled yet.

I don't know who you've read on NHL network, but don't drink the kool-aid. Attendance are up, and revenues, despite the global economic unrest, are up too. That's why the experts say it will be in the next season that the repercussions will be felt because a lot of sponsors will not be able to renew their ads contracts, and in fact having to adjust the cap downwards after the 2009-2010 season, which is not even a given considering the escrow account.

The escrow account can't be "hands-off" BTW, that's truly an ignorant statement to make. The escrow account is there for that purpose precisely. To fix the % of player salaries to 55-57% of revenues.

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Old
12-09-2008, 03:27 PM
  #50
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No, that's the pick they got from the Sharks when they traded Boyle.

They still have their 2009 1st pick.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=2479...=topStory_main

""In exchange, the Senators received defencemen Filip Kuba and Alexandre Picard and a first round pick the Lightning previously acquired from the San Jose Sharks.""
That's too bad...it would have been fun to watch Koules and Barrie cringe as Ottawa announced their choice of Hedman or Tavares...too bad, really.

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