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Old
12-09-2008, 11:27 AM
  #1
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Canucks trade with Blackhawks (minor)

http://canucks.nhl.com/team/app/?ser...ticleid=396988

Looks like defenseman Jimmy Sharrow has been dealt to Chicago for a conditional 2009 draft pick.

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12-09-2008, 11:34 AM
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Let's get the comments out of the way:


"Making room for Sundin? "

"Plan the parade route!"

"Jimmy who?"

"Ah man, I liked Sharrow, I thought he had a good future ahead of him"

"Turco Sucks!"

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12-09-2008, 11:40 AM
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Well okay then...

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12-09-2008, 11:44 AM
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Turning Jesse Shultz into a draft pick, not bad I guess...

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12-09-2008, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Zorbane View Post
Turning Jesse Shultz into a draft pick, not bad I guess...
Anybondy wondering why Nonis did not hang on to his job might want to recount how he was promoting Schultz as the answer to the goal scoring woes of the Canucks. Where is Schultz now?

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12-09-2008, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bengay View Post
Anybondy wondering why Nonis did not hang on to his job might want to recount how he was promoting Schultz as the answer to the goal scoring woes of the Canucks. Where is Schultz now?
Wasn't Schultz supposed to be on the Sedin line?

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12-09-2008, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bengay View Post
Anybondy wondering why Nonis did not hang on to his job might want to recount how he was promoting Schultz as the answer to the goal scoring woes of the Canucks. Where is Schultz now?
AV was on board the Schultz promotion train as well. That was truly a low point for this organization.


"I think he could be a 40 goal scorer."


Barf.

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12-09-2008, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
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Where is Schultz now?
enroute to the "most esoteric former Canuck" thread?

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Old
12-09-2008, 11:58 AM
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Jesse Schultz is in Houston

I'd hate to think that Sharrow was moved partly because there was no room on the Moose with Fortunus and Fistric taking prime roles...

S_C

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Old
12-09-2008, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bengay View Post
Anybondy wondering why Nonis did not hang on to his job might want to recount how he was promoting Schultz as the answer to the goal scoring woes of the Canucks. Where is Schultz now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Pauser View Post
Wasn't Schultz supposed to be on the Sedin line?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid_Roll View Post
AV was on board the Schultz promotion train as well. That was truly a low point for this organization.


"I think he could be a 40 goal scorer."


Barf.
yeah, imagine giving a guy coming off a 37 goal season with the Moose a shot in training camp. egads, what a terrible moment in the history of our organization. let's keep things in perspective: he played two games with the Canucks. for some reason I doubt those two games had anything to do with Nonis being canned.

as for the trade, great I love it. I don't care if it's a 7th rounder, Sharrow will never be an NHLer. I'd much rather get a draft pick than a Sharrow/Shultz level prospect back.

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12-09-2008, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alternate View Post
as for the trade, great I love it. I don't care if it's a 7th rounder, Sharrow will never be an NHLer. I'd much rather get a draft pick than a Sharrow/Shultz level prospect back.
Of course, the "condition" in that conditional pick might be contingent upon Sharrow playing a certain amount of games at the NHL level, so the Canucks might never see that pick anyways.

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Old
12-09-2008, 12:15 PM
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I don't really follow the Moose that closely. Will this move hurt their chances at the Calder Cup or was Sharrow easily expendable? Hopefully, the kid gets to play in some NHL games for the Blackhawks.

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12-09-2008, 12:23 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid_Roll View Post
Let's get the comments out of the way:


"Making room for Sundin? "

"Plan the parade route!"

"Jimmy who?"

"Ah man, I liked Sharrow, I thought he had a good future ahead of him"

"Turco Sucks!"
If anything this trade is a precursor to the Moose getting some players back: back from Vancouver and back from injury. There was a nice article in the papers today about how well some players have played (Bliznak and another I can't remember ) while filling in for other players (that were hurt or on recall). The article goes on to quote Heisinger (sp?) about having to adjust the roster and having some 'hard choices' to make when players begin to return.

So...if anything...this tells us that Rypien is probably close to returning as is Luongo...which would pave the way for at least two bodies (Schneider and Jaffray?) being returned to Manitoba.

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Old
12-09-2008, 12:56 PM
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Sharrow had zero future with the Canucks. Has been a health scratch in Manitoba and only seems to get game time thru injury or call-ups of other players. Guy makes brutal turnovers on defense and is weak in his own end. Has a decent shot and can produce some offense

Any return for this player is a bonus. Suppose the conditional aspect lies in Sharrow playing a certain number of games for Hawks or the Hawks re-signing him.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=2590...=headlines_nhl

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12-09-2008, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by alternate View Post
yeah, imagine giving a guy coming off a 37 goal season with the Moose a shot in training camp. egads, what a terrible moment in the history of our organization. let's keep things in perspective: he played two games with the Canucks. for some reason I doubt those two games had anything to do with Nonis being canned.

as for the trade, great I love it. I don't care if it's a 7th rounder, Sharrow will never be an NHLer. I'd much rather get a draft pick than a Sharrow/Shultz level prospect back.
Obviously the Schultz debacle was not the main reason why Nonis was fired. However, collectively the promotion of Schultz along with a series of many other debacles culminated in his dismissal. Nonis should have acquired a real goal scorer rather than entering a season counting on breakout and career years. Counting on Schultz to be the leading goal scorer for you team is beyond asanine.

Are you Nonis' son or something?

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12-09-2008, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alternate View Post
yeah, imagine giving a guy coming off a 37 goal season with the Moose a shot in training camp. egads, what a terrible moment in the history of our organization. let's keep things in perspective: he played two games with the Canucks. for some reason I doubt those two games had anything to do with Nonis being canned.

as for the trade, great I love it. I don't care if it's a 7th rounder, Sharrow will never be an NHLer. I'd much rather get a draft pick than a Sharrow/Shultz level prospect back.
I don't want this to turn into another Nonis debate; however, to respond to your point: Nonis was relying on Schultz to break out and be a top line player (top 6 at the very least). It's one thing if he brought in a bunch of players to compete for that spot, it's another (what he actually did) to basically bank on him earning that spot. And Schultz was so bad that he didn't earn it, and we had to go with other players who clearly weren't ready, and we saw the results.

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12-09-2008, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bengay View Post
Obviously the Schultz debacle was not the main reason why Nonis was fired. However, collectively the promotion of Schultz along with a series of many other debacles culminated in his dismissal. Nonis should have acquired a real goal scorer rather than entering a season counting on breakout and career years. Counting on Schultz to be the leading goal scorer for you team is beyond asanine.

Are you Nonis' son or something?
what promotion are you speaking of? so Schultz, who got all of two games (the following year to boot), was expected to be the leading goal scorer. lol. nice one.

did Nonis reject you went you went bengay on him at a game or something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Pauser View Post
I don't want this to turn into another Nonis debate; however, to respond to your point: Nonis was relying on Schultz to break out and be a top line player (top 6 at the very least). It's one thing if he brought in a bunch of players to compete for that spot, it's another (what he actually did) to basically bank on him earning that spot. And Schultz was so bad that he didn't earn it, and we had to go with other players who clearly weren't ready, and we saw the results.

Schultz was coming off a 37 goal season in the AHL, had decent size, a RH shot, and had showed a good release. Nonis and AV decided to give him a look at him at camp. he wasn't good enough for the NHL and didn't make the team. big freakin deal. that's how you run a successful organization. when your prospects look to be ready, you give them a shot. it's not like Nonis and AV stuck with Schultz after it was apparent he couldn't hack it in the bigs. who cares if they gave him a shot to earn a roster spot at training camp?

you say we should have brought in a bunch of players "just in case". we're talking about top line players here. how do you bring in a "bunch of players" that are capable of playing on the top line, "just in case"? what happens next if Schultz is ready? it's not like we had cap space to burn, or a line around the block of potential top line players that wanted to come here "just in case".

a current example will be Hodgson next season. should Gillis bring in a bunch of potential 2nd line centres "just in case"? sure we'll need to have 1-2 fall back options, like Demitra and re-signing Wellwood for example. but we can't go sign a bunch of top 6 players "just in case" Hodgson isn't ready. at some point you have to take gambles on your prospects, or what's the point of having them?

Schultz had had a very good AHL season. but as we all know, AHL success doesn't always translate to NHL success. but you don't know one way or the other until you give the kid a shot. yeah, they said if Schultz' AHL skillset translated to the NHL he'd be a good fit with the Sedins and then his skillset didn't translate. I'm struggling here to come up with something more inconsequential during Nonis's regime.

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12-09-2008, 01:49 PM
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Every time I've seen Sharrow play he's seemed absolutely brutal to me. If they end up getting anything for him at all, I'd be absolutely ecstatic.

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12-09-2008, 01:55 PM
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I love how all these theads always turn into a bash Nonis thread

yet people fail to bring up

Burrows, Bieska, Hanson, Raymond and the defence that he built that some think is one of the best in the league--- I guess Gillis get credit for the Luongo deal as well next?

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12-09-2008, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alternate View Post
what promotion are you speaking of? so Schultz, who got all of two games (the following year to boot), was expected to be the leading goal scorer. lol. nice one.

did Nonis reject you went you went bengay on him at a game or something?




Schultz was coming off a 37 goal season in the AHL, had decent size, a RH shot, and had showed a good release. Nonis and AV decided to give him a look at him at camp. he wasn't good enough for the NHL and didn't make the team. big freakin deal. that's how you run a successful organization. when your prospects look to be ready, you give them a shot. it's not like Nonis and AV stuck with Schultz after it was apparent he couldn't hack it in the bigs. who cares if they gave him a shot to earn a roster spot at training camp?

you say we should have brought in a bunch of players "just in case". we're talking about top line players here. how do you bring in a "bunch of players" that are capable of playing on the top line, "just in case"? what happens next if Schultz is ready? it's not like we had cap space to burn, or a line around the block of potential top line players that wanted to come here "just in case".

a current example will be Hodgson next season. should Gillis bring in a bunch of potential 2nd line centres "just in case"? sure we'll need to have 1-2 fall back options, like Demitra and re-signing Wellwood for example. but we can't go sign a bunch of top 6 players "just in case" Hodgson isn't ready. at some point you have to take gambles on your prospects, or what's the point of having them?

Schultz had had a very good AHL season. but as we all know, AHL success doesn't always translate to NHL success. but you don't know one way or the other until you give the kid a shot. yeah, they said if Schultz' AHL skillset translated to the NHL he'd be a good fit with the Sedins and then his skillset didn't translate. I'm struggling here to come up with something more inconsequential during Nonis's regime.
And therein is your answer. We didn't have someone like Wellwood as a fall-back option.

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12-09-2008, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by alternate View Post
what promotion are you speaking of? so Schultz, who got all of two games (the following year to boot), was expected to be the leading goal scorer. lol. nice one.

did Nonis reject you went you went bengay on him at a game or something?




Schultz was coming off a 37 goal season in the AHL, had decent size, a RH shot, and had showed a good release. Nonis and AV decided to give him a look at him at camp. he wasn't good enough for the NHL and didn't make the team. big freakin deal. that's how you run a successful organization. when your prospects look to be ready, you give them a shot. it's not like Nonis and AV stuck with Schultz after it was apparent he couldn't hack it in the bigs. who cares if they gave him a shot to earn a roster spot at training camp?

you say we should have brought in a bunch of players "just in case". we're talking about top line players here. how do you bring in a "bunch of players" that are capable of playing on the top line, "just in case"? what happens next if Schultz is ready? it's not like we had cap space to burn, or a line around the block of potential top line players that wanted to come here "just in case".

a current example will be Hodgson next season. should Gillis bring in a bunch of potential 2nd line centres "just in case"? sure we'll need to have 1-2 fall back options, like Demitra and re-signing Wellwood for example. but we can't go sign a bunch of top 6 players "just in case" Hodgson isn't ready. at some point you have to take gambles on your prospects, or what's the point of having them?

Schultz had had a very good AHL season. but as we all know, AHL success doesn't always translate to NHL success. but you don't know one way or the other until you give the kid a shot. yeah, they said if Schultz' AHL skillset translated to the NHL he'd be a good fit with the Sedins and then his skillset didn't translate. I'm struggling here to come up with something more inconsequential during Nonis's regime.

Listen, I was not trying to be a jerk - sorry if it came across that way, I just found it odd how you took so much offense to hacking on Nonis.

My problem with Schultz is that they were counting on him to provide goals - and they should have realized, as you put it, that often goal scoring in the AHL does not translate to the NHL. They should have put together a better plan for scoring goals than banking on a guy like Schultz to pot 20. Nonis' failure was that he thought the team could simply coast into the playoffs with good D and a hot goalie - and that scoring would come from castoffs and minor leaguers. His other failure was that he thought that the Summer of '08 would be the year he could use all his cap room to make big splashy signings - truth of the matter is that rarely do any of the difference makers make it to the UFA market - and when they do, Vancouver is not preferred choice.

Nonis failed - pure and simple - and Schultz is somewhat symbolic of his time in Vancouver.

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12-09-2008, 02:24 PM
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as for the trade, great I love it. I don't care if it's a 7th rounder, Sharrow will never be an NHLer. I'd much rather get a draft pick than a Sharrow/Shultz level prospect back.
Let's hope that 7th round pick will be another Gendur vs another Clark.

As for Jesse Schultz....meh, any "credit" for finding him should go to the Moose GM (at least that's my recollection). Like Burrows' case - Nonis benefited from the Moose GM able to spot talent unlike some of the guys in this organization.

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12-09-2008, 02:25 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we also throw a 4th or 5th rounder in the deal to acquire Sharrow in the first place?

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12-09-2008, 02:25 PM
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my timeline recall is always a little fuzzy. could either of you guys remind me how we did in the season that will forever be known as "the great Schultz debacle"?

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12-09-2008, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by alternate View Post
yeah, imagine giving a guy coming off a 37 goal season with the Moose a shot in training camp. egads, what a terrible moment in the history of our organization. let's keep things in perspective: he played two games with the Canucks. for some reason I doubt those two games had anything to do with Nonis being canned.
That's not what they are saying. They're saying Nonis and AV were putting all their eggs in Schultz's basket. In hindsight, you have to ask "what were they thinking?". Sure, there was a chance that Schultz would score 40 in the NHL - like 1 out of 10 (guesstimate: i'm sure somebody can figure out how many players in the AHL with say 32 goals or more scored 40 in the NHL the following year or 2 or 3? I might be high with 10%). The cupboards had to be totally bare for Nonis and AV to come up with that one. Desperate people do desperate things.

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