HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Flames boarding call on d'Agostini

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-10-2008, 11:50 AM
  #26
Davebo
BeepBeep!
 
Davebo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,947
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz View Post
If D'Ago would of stayed on the ice for a few minutes, I have a feeling it would of been a 5 minute penalty.
Mixed feelings about that - I don't want him to be one of 'those' players, the ones that go down like they're shot, and peek out looking for the ref.

I was glad he hopped right back up, both for the above reason and the fact that he was probably all right.

Davebo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 11:53 AM
  #27
Kriss E
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,510
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
It was fine to me. Regehr didn't put all of his force into the hit and it was a last second turn by D'Agostini.

What ticks me off a little is that no one jumped him after the hit. Look at the Flames players after the Markov-Phaneuf hit. I guess the right guys were not on the ice, but still.
When Bergeron was injured, Jones didn't shove him into the boards with all his force.
It was a check from behind, they're trying to eliminate those therefore he should be suspended.
The one he did on Hemsky was horrible, and this is pretty much the same although a little less worse.


As for nobody coming to D'Ago's defense. To be honest, who gives a crap?..
I understand your point of view, but I find it stupid to be disappointed with this. Carbo is proning discipline, and they had a penalty right away.
Don't forget it's D'Ago on the ice, so chances are Koivu and A.Kost are on the ice. I really don't want to see them get into it with Regher or Phaneuf.
As for Phaneuf, there was 2min left in the game and they were losing 4-1, so it's normal to see a reaction.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 11:55 AM
  #28
Shred
Registered User
 
Shred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 821
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotPie View Post
And we all know how much that whining on Komisarek is actually warranted.

You actually shot down your own argument with that analogy.
Also known as making a joke. Regehr is actually dirty imo. You can disagree if you wish.

Shred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 12:51 PM
  #29
neofury*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal, PQ
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
It's just the principle. If it was late in the game and it was close, I would agree. But this was earlier on. You have to send a message that this will not be tolerated, to show the rest of the league the Habs are not the wimps they make them out to be.

Though whoever did go after him would get clocked. But Regehr would also be gone for 7 mins which is a good thing.
Sometimes winning a game is worth more then defending a teammate which could lead to losing a game. It's always in hindsight but I'm sure you've seen it time and time again. "Had so-and-so not gotten an instigator penalty after the so-and-so hit, they wouldn't have been scored on" etc. These types of things happen. It's better to not allow it to happen then to let it happen and realize your mistake in a 3-2 loss for example.

neofury* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 12:52 PM
  #30
Pascal
Registered User
 
Pascal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,467
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davebo View Post
Mixed feelings about that - I don't want him to be one of 'those' players, the ones that go down like they're shot, and peek out looking for the ref.

I was glad he hopped right back up, both for the above reason and the fact that he was probably all right.
i was thrilled to see him get up quickly and go to the net. guy has balls.

Pascal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 12:54 PM
  #31
neofury*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal, PQ
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaydee96 View Post
all his force or not, Regehr clearly shoves D'ago from behind into the end boards.

D'ago did not turn, he had body position on Regehr.

I re-watched the hit 10 times last night on my PVR...so dont tell me to go watch it again, it was a dirty play
Yeah I did the same, I wouldn't say it was a terrible boarding incident but I would say it was still dirty. Mind you, I don't feel it was with bad intent. (I mean, I don't think he wanted to injure d'ago but the funny thing my mom said was that this is a big grown man picking on a little kid almost, I'd say that is almost a fair comparison, so do I think that makes Regher dirty... well no not really, but do I think he's clean too? I'd say he's right in the middle. Dirty is kasperetis and sergei kostitsyn imo.)

And yes, Sergei is a pretty dirty player at times.

neofury* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 12:56 PM
  #32
neofury*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal, PQ
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverik View Post
It was dirty, but not suspension dirty, that's why they have the Boarding call in the game, for hits like that.
Exactly. And I don't think it justifies calling Regher a dirty player. When canadian teams play, when rivals play each other, it always tends to get a little intense. Are we really going to call any player who ever acted intensely or made a dirty move a dirty player? To me dirty players are people who are known repeat offenders not just somebody whose had a call here or there.

neofury* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 12:57 PM
  #33
neofury*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal, PQ
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shred View Post
Regehr might not be known as a dirty player in Montreal but he's way dirty. Oil and Nucks fans complain about him almost as much as Bruins fans do about Komisarek.
Keep in mind though, the teams you are referring to are rivals and thus their fanbases are bias. Not only that but rival teams play with a lot more intensity against one another and therefore, big hits, bad hits and dirty moves are more likely to occur, it's just the way it is when you are playing above your normal level of competition.

neofury* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 12:59 PM
  #34
Pascal
Registered User
 
Pascal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,467
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Exactly. And I don't think it justifies calling Regher a dirty player. When canadian teams play, when rivals play each other, it always tends to get a little intense. Are we really going to call any player who ever acted intensely or made a dirty move a dirty player? To me dirty players are people who are known repeat offenders not just somebody whose had a call here or there.
i agree.. and it's a spur of the moment thing. it's easy for us to judge players on a split second decision.

Pascal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 01:05 PM
  #35
neofury*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal, PQ
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
It's absolutely warranted. Komisarek is dirty. He takes cheapshots after the whistle more than anyone I've ever seen.

Last year in the playoffs after one whistle Komi must have cross-checked a Bruin in the head (I think it was Thornton or Savard? I dunno who) probably 6 or 7 times in succession.

He doesn't hit people from behind, but he's definitely dirty.
These are the types of things enforcer type players do. This is the sport we watch, it is a sport that has a lot of aggression in it. It hardly merits calling someone a dirty player. If you intentionally try to injure people, you're dirty. If you board people repeatedly, spear people, butt end people, then obviously you are a dirty player. If you're a komi/regher type and are a stay at home defenseman who is meant to be an enforcer or somewhat of one, then obviously you need to keep other teams players on their toes. It hardly makes you dirty to cross check a player after the play IF you are an enforcer. To be considered a dirty player, first of all as an enforcer imo you need to go beyond your normal enforcer type duties of shuving people around and hitting them after the play, these are your duties as an enforcer and it's a known part of the game. To call a person dirty for doing their job as an enforcer imo is ridiculous. If Komisarek went around boarding people left right and center or speared someone I'd call him dirty. If he did multiple really serious dirty hits I'd call him dirty. But to me, he's just doing his job, he enforces. When you are an enforcer imo there is a larger grey area.

I guess to some extent you are right but I just find if that is what the player is out there to do, as long as they aren't intentionally trying to injure people or do low blows, they aren't dirty. A little mouthing off and big hits, maybe a cross check here or there depending on the severity, really to me doesn't make you a dirty player, it makes you a hockey player.

I know I'll probably take a lot of flack from these comments, but I just find anyone could be called a dirty player by how loose the definition of one is. I mean, are you a dirty player now too if you dive a lot?

EDIT: Also keep in mind the context of what you just said, it was the playoffs and it was MTL vs BOS, I mean of course that type of stuff is going to happen even in a regular season game versus the bruins. It's our current biggest rivalry of the last 3-4 years. Of course players on both teams who are normally aggressive will be more-so. Just because they are playing more intensely does not make them dirty players. You need to keep in mind, many players are playing the way they are playing due to the type of team they are playing against. Play a non-physical team, the habs will likely try to dominate offensively, not go around taking dumb penalties and having komi cross check a guy after the play for no apparent reason.

Rivalry games I find you need to be a little more leniant with the moves these players make as enforcers. It's not like Komi is going around pulling Zednik elbows and such. He's just playing like an adrenaline junky because what do you think happens when you play against a rival? I know even when I play video games against a rival I play harder. If I have to resort to some cheap tricks in order to win I'll do it. (Notice how I didn't say cheat)


Last edited by neofury*: 12-10-2008 at 01:11 PM.
neofury* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 01:05 PM
  #36
number 11
Registered User
 
number 11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,939
vCash: 500
I didn't like the hit at all...dagostini gained position and Regher propelled him into the boards from behind for no reason. had he stayed down, that would definitely be a suspension.

number 11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 01:09 PM
  #37
coolguy21415
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Vietnam
Posts: 9,285
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
These are the types of things enforcer type players do. This is the sport we watch, it is a sport that has a lot of aggression in it. It hardly merits calling someone a dirty player. If you intentionally try to injure people, you're dirty. If you board people repeatedly, spear people, butt end people, then obviously you are a dirty player. If you're a komi/regher type and are a stay at home defenseman who is meant to be an enforcer or somewhat of one, then obviously you need to keep other teams players on their toes. It hardly makes you dirty to cross check a player after the play IF you are an enforcer. To be considered a dirty player, first of all as an enforcer imo you need to go beyond your normal enforcer type duties of shuving people around and hitting them after the play, these are your duties as an enforcer and it's a known part of the game. To call a person dirty for doing their job as an enforcer imo is ridiculous. If Komisarek went around boarding people left right and center or speared someone I'd call him dirty. If he did multiple really serious dirty hits I'd call him dirty. But to me, he's just doing his job, he enforces. When you are an enforcer imo there is a larger grey area.

I guess to some extent you are right but I just find if that is what the player is out there to do, as long as they aren't intentionally trying to injure people or do low blows, they aren't dirty. A little mouthing off and big hits, maybe a cross check here or there depending on the severity, really to me doesn't make you a dirty player, it makes you a hockey player.

I know I'll probably take a lot of flack from these comments, but I just find anyone could be called a dirty player by how loose the definition of one is. I mean, are you a dirty player now too if you dive a lot?
I consider most of the grey area you describe as dirty, it's just a matter of what the referees will let you get away with.

And no, it doesn't make you dirty. It makes you a cross between a gamesman and a coward.

__________________
This content is hosted here with the objections of the poster.
coolguy21415 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 01:14 PM
  #38
neofury*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal, PQ
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
I consider most of the grey area you describe as dirty, it's just a matter of what the referees will let you get away with.

And no, it doesn't make you dirty. It makes you a cross between a gamesman and a coward.
lol the grey area I speak of is how 90% of NHL players play. Even Koivu can be considered a dirty player if you take it to this great lengths. What defines a dirty player as I said is a very loose definition. I mean to me it's repeat offenders and people who go above the normal job of an enforcer. If the other teams enforcers are cross checking after the play, it only makes sense that to support your team as an enforcer, you do the same. It's when players take it too far especially outside or a rivalry game where it becomes a serious issue and makes them dirty.

neofury* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 01:15 PM
  #39
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 50,379
vCash: 500
Are you guys really discussing to know if Komisarek is dirty or not? Why don't you ask the Bruins board if you REALLY want to know...

Whitesnake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 01:43 PM
  #40
neofury*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal, PQ
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Are you guys really discussing to know if Komisarek is dirty or not? Why don't you ask the Bruins board if you REALLY want to know...
Part of the argument I'm making is that in games where rival teams play the level of intensity is higher and fans of opposing teams are more likely to label a player dirty because of one incident.

To me, dirty is what you are when you intentionally go around injuring people.

neofury* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 01:43 PM
  #41
Watsatheo
Error 503 Service
 
Watsatheo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,442
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
It was fine to me. Regehr didn't put all of his force into the hit and it was a last second turn by D'Agostini.

What ticks me off a little is that no one jumped him after the hit. Look at the Flames players after the Markov-Phaneuf hit. I guess the right guys were not on the ice, but still.
Well Koivu and Kostitsyn were the other forwards and on D I think we had Markov and Gorges. The guys with any fighting experience there are Kostitsyn and Markov. I doubt they would be able to take Regehr even if it was a tag team fight.

Watsatheo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 01:51 PM
  #42
5 man unit
Registered User
 
5 man unit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 324
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Part of the argument I'm making is that in games where rival teams play the level of intensity is higher and fans of opposing teams are more likely to label a player dirty because of one incident.

To me, dirty is what you are when you intentionally go around injuring people.
There's a difference between intent to injure dirty, and Komi dirty. If your biggest rivals don't think you are at least a little dirty, you're not doing your job. The other team should hate to play against you. If they start to enjoy it,, especially as a defensive defenseman, you need to rethink things.

5 man unit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 02:00 PM
  #43
Davebo
BeepBeep!
 
Davebo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,947
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Why don't you ask the Bruins board if you REALLY want to know...
Because I'm firmly grounded in reality, and leave fantasy to my favourite SciFi authors.

Davebo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 02:03 PM
  #44
Kriss E
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,510
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
And yes, Sergei is a pretty dirty player at times.
Sergei is not a dirty player.
If a player comes at him, then after he'll hunt that player to time a big hit.

Kovalev's elbow on Tucker was dirty, does that label Kovalev as a dirty player?..No it doesn't.
Same thing applies to S.Kost. He'll give big hits here and there, when he gets hit, he likes to reply. But that doesn't make him a dirty player.

As for Komi, I don't see why he's dirty. Starting crap after a whistle doesn't make you a dirty player.

You said it in one of your posts, Kasparaitis was dirty. I used to love him and his infamous hipchecks, but I know he was dirty. None of our players compare to him.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 02:21 PM
  #45
neofury*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal, PQ
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5 man unit View Post
There's a difference between intent to injure dirty, and Komi dirty. If your biggest rivals don't think you are at least a little dirty, you're not doing your job. The other team should hate to play against you. If they start to enjoy it,, especially as a defensive defenseman, you need to rethink things.
That's pretty much what I was sort of trying to say. But more-so that komi dirty doesn't deserve to get the label DIRTY as much as just ENFORCER. Dirty to me is purely if you have intent to injure someone.

neofury* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 02:28 PM
  #46
neofury*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal, PQ
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Sergei is not a dirty player.
If a player comes at him, then after he'll hunt that player to time a big hit.

Kovalev's elbow on Tucker was dirty, does that label Kovalev as a dirty player?..No it doesn't.
Same thing applies to S.Kost. He'll give big hits here and there, when he gets hit, he likes to reply. But that doesn't make him a dirty player.

As for Komi, I don't see why he's dirty. Starting crap after a whistle doesn't make you a dirty player.

You said it in one of your posts, Kasparaitis was dirty. I used to love him and his infamous hipchecks, but I know he was dirty. None of our players compare to him.
Agreed. What I was more-so trying to say is that I feel that there is a certain scale to determine if a player is dirty or not.

One way would be intent of their hits.

But to me another thing I failed to mention is that, if an enforcer is making a dirty hit, they are physical far more frequently then a non-enforcer, so accidents and dirty movies IMO are more likely to happen. So to me, what it takes for an enforcer to be considered a dirty player should be alot more then what it takes for a non-enforcer type player to be deemed a dirty player in terms of repeat offenses.

Because imo obviously it is more likely you will have repeat offenses if you are one of the teams enforcers who is meant to dish out big hits, fight and so forth.

If you aren't one of those players like say... Sergei, your job on the ice is to score or play some good two way hockey at the very least, not to go around boarding people or giving a dirty hit.

While I might have been hasty in calling Sergei dirty, if you're directly targeting people and such, you must have some intent to hurt them in some shape or form. Sure that can be said about any hit, but it isn't sergeis job on the ice like it is for an enforcer. For an enforcer it is their job to do this sort of stuff and if they aren't at least somewhat dirty in a sense, they aren't doing their job. But to label them a dirty player imo is stupid, they're doing their job and imo not all enforcers unless we're referring to fights, have the intent to injure/hurt the person when enforcing, they just have more of an intent to keep their own star players safe etc.

With Sergei, it isn't his job to do this sort of stuff so when you see him make a dirty move, or like you said kovalev pulling an elbow, it seems out of the norm and unnecessary. Let the enforcers enforce and the scorers score I guess is all I'm saying. And there are definitely some open ice hits of sergeis that I would definitely consider dirty just because imo the intent behind them wasn't good. Also the number of strides you take before you hit someone should come into account imo.

EDIT: also wanted to say, against rival teams with adrenaline pumping and playing 110% hockey (the kind we all have come to love) accidents are more likely to happen and tempers are more likely to flare. In those games nearly every player plays a physical game and maybe even does a dirty move here and there, whether intentional or not, this is part of the reason why I think it is unfair to label a player dirty unless they basically go around cheapshotting constantly, spear, board all the time and mainly: injure people frequently, essentially the repeat offenders)

neofury* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 02:31 PM
  #47
Darz
Registered User
 
Darz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Where's the ANY key?
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davebo View Post
Mixed feelings about that - I don't want him to be one of 'those' players, the ones that go down like they're shot, and peek out looking for the ref.

I was glad he hopped right back up, both for the above reason and the fact that he was probably all right.
Agreed...I didn't want him to do that either, I'm just saying if he did.

__________________
Hey look, it's Duffman; the guy in a costume that creates awareness of Duff!
Darz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 02:35 PM
  #48
djwilson19
Registered User
 
djwilson19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Westford, MA
Country: Ireland
Posts: 527
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davebo View Post
Mixed feelings about that - I don't want him to be one of 'those' players, the ones that go down like they're shot, and peek out looking for the ref.

I was glad he hopped right back up, both for the above reason and the fact that he was probably all right.
You mean like Mike Ribeiro? What a joke for you to think that way...lets dive or fake to get the call we want?

djwilson19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 02:37 PM
  #49
Pr3Va1L
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 635
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverik View Post
It was dirty, but not suspension dirty, that's why they have the Boarding call in the game, for hits like that.

And it was called.

What's the problem?



Seriously, the real problem is when something like this happens, someone gets hurt, there is no in-game call and THEN the league gives out a suspension...

Pr3Va1L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2008, 02:40 PM
  #50
Davebo
BeepBeep!
 
Davebo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,947
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by djwilson19 View Post
You mean like Mike Ribeiro? What a joke for you to think that way...lets dive or fake to get the call we want?
What?

Reading comprehension FAIL...

Davebo is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:44 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.