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Old
12-10-2008, 11:55 AM
  #26
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Cally hasn't been perfect but he's definitely better than guys like Dawes and Fritche.

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12-10-2008, 11:55 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I think part of what has frustrated me from what I have read here over the last two months is the idea of patience with young guys is gone. People have begged this team to home grow talent. They've done that. There's a learning curve at every level. Callahan has one now really had an uninterrupted string of games. And if he's not scoring, he is finding a way to contribute.
That is such a great post Singn.

Throw in Dubinsky too, except hes making too many defensive mistakes. But for crying out loud, its the kids second year and everyone knew he wasnt going to be clicking at the same pace he did during stretches of last season and the start of this one. Granted, he has to step it up now - but guys like Dawes, Korpikoski, Staal, Fritsche - even Zherdev ... these are all players that were given a shot to grow on their experience - suddenly its a surprise the team isnt firing at a high level, when part of it really comes down to that learning curve + other things.

Its not an excuse, its the reality of the team. Let's not forget they are one of the youngest teams in the NHL.

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12-10-2008, 12:00 PM
  #28
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That is such a great post Singn.

Throw in Dubinsky too, except hes making too many defensive mistakes. But for crying out loud, its the kids second year and everyone knew he wasnt going to be clicking at the same pace he did during stretches of last season and the start of this one. Granted, he has to step it up now - but guys like Dawes, Korpikoski, Staal, Fritsche - even Zherdev ... these are all players that were given a shot to grow on their experience - suddenly its a surprise the team isnt firing at a high level, when part of it really comes down to that learning curve + other things.

Its not an excuse, its the reality of the team. Let's not forget they are one of the youngest teams in the NHL.
Absolutely this applies to Dubinsky. I'll throw Staal and Girardi, as well.

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12-10-2008, 12:20 PM
  #29
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Callahan has earned every second on the ice. He is in the top 7 in the NHl in hits. He works his butt off every shift, he FORECHECKS. He is on pace for 23ish goals. I love cally and hope he dons the broadway blue for a long time. If anything we need MORE players like Cally.

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12-10-2008, 12:25 PM
  #30
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Look, I'm not going to speak for other people on this board who have been really upset with this team of late, but I can tell you what I have an issue with.

It isn't that we aren't growing home grown talent. We are, and to the team's credit, they've done a pretty good job with what they have. Callahan, Dubinsky, Staal, Girardi, are all very impressive and hopefully remain with this team for many, many years. I hope to own all their jerseys at some point.

But the problem is this is all that we got. This team's fanbase has suffered longer than most teams who rebuild the right way, and what did we get to show for it? Look at the Blackhawks. They were nearly as pathetic as the Rangers were, if not more so, for just about the same period. But they spent the last few years of their mediocrity actually doing the right thing. Rebuilding fully. Getting HIGH draft picks. Drafting franchise players. We have one "franchise" player, Henrik Lundqvist. The best teams in this league have more than one. Boston, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Washington, San Jose, Anaheim. Look at the teams that will be up there in 2-3 years, or less: Chicago, Los Angeles.

These teams are going to surpass the Rangers and leave them behind in the next few seasons because the Rangers, unless they can convince some dimwit to take on some of the worst contracts in this league, are not in a position to improve their team. They couldn't show any patience, they had to go out and get the first free agents they could get their hands on. This team's fans have been patient, with the hope that there is a pot of gold at the end of this long rainbow of disappointment. Instead, we've been taken to a pot of silver and told that it's just as good.

I find it mind boggling, truly mind boggling, that someone thought it was a good idea to give these kind of contracts to Scott Gomez, Chris Drury, Wade Redden, and to a lesser degree, Michal Rozsival. I can understand one of them, maybe even two. But all of them?

I have no problem with Dubinsky, Callahan, Girardi, Staal, Lundqvist, Betts, Sjostrom, Orr. Like all those guys, hope they're part of the core here for a long time. But I would have liked them just as much if we were losing games for a year or two while we finished rebuilding. The reason I like these players is because they all play hard. That's something that they brought to the table already, which means they would play that way even if the team wasn't winning.

The New York Rangers were terrible for nearly a decade. When the Jagr-Lundqvist tandem turned out better than anyone could have expected for a couple of years, I was okay with temporarily putting the rebuild on hold, but once the Jagr magic was gone, the right thing to do was be patient. Get the final piece of the puzzle. Get yourself a Patrick Kane or something like that. Then, we'd have a great young team with cap room to add the RIGHT free agents. That's the way smart teams build.

Where are we going now? Another 5 years of second round and out, if even that? A core of Gomez, Drury, Redden and Lundqvist is not going to get us further, nor does it leave us the flexibility to improve.

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12-10-2008, 12:34 PM
  #31
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Cally's earning...

12-13 minutes of ice time per game. Unfortunately, if you pair him with, say Gomez, all of the sudden 25 goals is expected from him. He should be a third liner. He plays hard and has good shifts.

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12-10-2008, 12:36 PM
  #32
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Sting, your wasting your time.

I was saying what you said on these boards WHILE we were going through those horrible 7 years. I hated that we still signed vets, traded for Bure and pretty much assured ourselves of being just good enough to miss out on the top draft picks. If we just wouldve played the cards we were dealt in the first place we wouldve had a shot at the Ovechkins, Malkins, Crosbys, Kanes of the world. Thats where i blame Sather, for taking way to long to start a rebuild. Instead he was interested in aquiring guys like Lindros.

Now, the flip side to that coin is we were lucky enough to get guys like Hank, Staal, Dubi, etc even though they were not top 10 players in their draft. Its good to see we had some luck to help ease the pain of not having top 5 picks.

Considering how miserable the draft has been to us, i'm surprised how many good young players we have on the team and in the system.

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12-10-2008, 12:36 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Look, I'm not going to speak for other people on this board who have been really upset with this team of late, but I can tell you what I have an issue with.

It isn't that we aren't growing home grown talent. We are, and to the team's credit, they've done a pretty good job with what they have. Callahan, Dubinsky, Staal, Girardi, are all very impressive and hopefully remain with this team for many, many years. I hope to own all their jerseys at some point.

But the problem is this is all that we got. This team's fanbase has suffered longer than most teams who rebuild the right way, and what did we get to show for it? Look at the Blackhawks. They were nearly as pathetic as the Rangers were, if not more so, for just about the same period. But they spent the last few years of their mediocrity actually doing the right thing. Rebuilding fully. Getting HIGH draft picks. Drafting franchise players. We have one "franchise" player, Henrik Lundqvist. The best teams in this league have more than one. Boston, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Washington, San Jose, Anaheim. Look at the teams that will be up there in 2-3 years, or less: Chicago, Los Angeles.

These teams are going to surpass the Rangers and leave them behind in the next few seasons because the Rangers, unless they can convince some dimwit to take on some of the worst contracts in this league, are not in a position to improve their team. They couldn't show any patience, they had to go out and get the first free agents they could get their hands on. This team's fans have been patient, with the hope that there is a pot of gold at the end of this long rainbow of disappointment. Instead, we've been taken to a pot of silver and told that it's just as good.

I find it mind boggling, truly mind boggling, that someone thought it was a good idea to give these kind of contracts to Scott Gomez, Chris Drury, Wade Redden, and to a lesser degree, Michal Rozsival. I can understand one of them, maybe even two. But all of them?

I have no problem with Dubinsky, Callahan, Girardi, Staal, Lundqvist, Betts, Sjostrom, Orr. Like all those guys, hope they're part of the core here for a long time. But I would have liked them just as much if we were losing games for a year or two while we finished rebuilding. The reason I like these players is because they all play hard. That's something that they brought to the table already, which means they would play that way even if the team wasn't winning.

The New York Rangers were terrible for nearly a decade. When the Jagr-Lundqvist tandem turned out better than anyone could have expected for a couple of years, I was okay with temporarily putting the rebuild on hold, but once the Jagr magic was gone, the right thing to do was be patient. Get the final piece of the puzzle. Get yourself a Patrick Kane or something like that. Then, we'd have a great young team with cap room to add the RIGHT free agents. That's the way smart teams build.

Where are we going now? Another 5 years of second round and out, if even that? A core of Gomez, Drury, Redden and Lundqvist is not going to get us further, nor does it leave us the flexibility to improve.
Sting, I very much agree. While you really can't argue against giving Henrik his money, you can for the others. I'm a huge Drury guy, so I don't mind one other big contract. As for the rest, it was just ugly negotiation.

I hate how the Rangers have too much money to play with and a GM who seems to look for the quick fix instead of the bang for the buck player. Personally, if anyone has to go, it would be Sather. To me, we need a new GM along the lines of Theo Epstein (Boston Red Sox), who will use our money wisely on players that deserve it and put a heavy focus on player scouting and development. Do I mind that the Rangers over-pay most of the time? Only when the results are like this.

But, all of us are stuck with what this team has now as its core, for at least a couple of years. I still believe this team can play 100X better than it is now, but for the past 2 weeks we all have been waiting for this team to get out of this rut. None of us have the answer, its all up to the players, imo.

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Old
12-10-2008, 12:39 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Sting, your wasting your time.

I was saying what you said on these boards WHILE we were going through those horrible 7 years. I hated that we still signed vets, traded for Bure and pretty much assured ourselves of being just good enough to miss out on the top draft picks. If we just wouldve played the cards we were dealt in the first place we wouldve had a shot at the Ovechkins, Malkins, Crosbys, Kanes of the world. Thats where i blame Sather, for taking way to long to start a rebuild. Instead he was interested in aquiring guys like Lindros.

Now, the flip side to that coin is we were lucky enough to get guys like Hank, Staal, Dubi, etc even though they were not top 10 players in their draft. Its good to see we had some luck to help ease the pain of not having top 5 picks.

Considering how miserable the draft has been to us, i'm surprised how many good young players we have on the team and in the system.
Sums it up pretty well. Sather should have just taken his medicine and gone from there, but he always seemed to think that he could buy himself a championship even with no support players. He was a pretty good GM pre-lockout, but I don't think he's ever gotten his mind around the idea of a salary cap.

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12-10-2008, 01:09 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
He plays a regular shift each and every game because he's earned it. He does not get power play time.

Maybe there's a reason that those guys are in the press box and Callahan is in uniform.

The finger pointing around here is getting ridiculous.
If the finger-pointing comment is directed at me...well...it shouldn't be. I didn't say Callahan stinks, I didn't say he should be traded...I just asked if him playing so much was justified at this point in his career. The paranoia around here is getting ridiculous.

And Callahan HAS gotten power play time, it's not fair to say he does not. After Gomez, Drury, Naslund, Zherdev and Dubinsky, it seems like Renney splits the sixth spot between Voros and Callahan.

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12-10-2008, 02:40 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Look, I'm not going to speak for other people on this board who have been really upset with this team of late, but I can tell you what I have an issue with...
Where are we going now? Another 5 years of second round and out, if even that? A core of Gomez, Drury, Redden and Lundqvist is not going to get us further, nor does it leave us the flexibility to improve.
Best post I've seen here in a long, long time. Hard to understand how so many blame only Renney given the personnel Sather has given him. The fact that Cally, an excellent third liner at this point of his career, is forced onto the scorinig lines because they basically ran out of cap space is an epitome of what ails this team.


Last edited by Esa 10: 12-10-2008 at 02:51 PM.
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Old
12-10-2008, 02:44 PM
  #37
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Im a big Callahan fan. Its not his fault that this team is so thin up front that hes being used at times as a top 6 winger.

He is an ideal 3rd liner, and I hope he will be one on this team for a long time.

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12-10-2008, 02:49 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Im a big Callahan fan. Its not his fault that this team is so thin up front that hes being used at times as a top 6 winger.

He is an ideal 3rd liner, and I hope he will be one on this team for a long time.
This is the best response so far. Clear, consice, and manages not to be condescending all at the same time.

Thank you.

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12-10-2008, 02:53 PM
  #39
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The great thing about callahan is that he plays hard every time he touches the ice. He shows chemistry with pretty much every center on the team because he keeps it simple and does the little things that make a line successful. He back-checks, shoots the puck, grinds it out in the corner, hits, forechecks, everything anyone would love to have on their line. The guy has earned everything he is getting and although he hasnt scored lately, no one has.

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12-10-2008, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by The Thomas J. View Post
Yes he is, Cally has been the most consistent Ranger forward this year, he is on pace to score 20 to 25 goals & rarly makes a costly mistake.
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Originally Posted by playstationline View Post
Callahan has earned every second on the ice. He is in the top 7 in the NHl in hits. He works his butt off every shift, he FORECHECKS. He is on pace for 23ish goals. I love cally and hope he dons the broadway blue for a long time. If anything we need MORE players like Cally.
I'm not trying to nitpick but he's not on pace for 20 to 25 goals. He's played more than 1/3 of the season and has 6 goals. He's on pace for 16-17 and thats just a "pace" so take it for what its worth. That said he gives his all on every shift and always seems to be making something happen while on the ice. He deserves the time he gets, at least when compared to Dawes, Fritsche, Prucha etc.


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12-10-2008, 03:04 PM
  #41
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I'm not trying to nitpick but he's not on pace for 20 to 25 goals. He's played more than 1/3 of the season and has 6 goals. He's on pace for 16-17. That said he gives his all on every shift and always seems to be making something happen while on the ice. He deserves the time he gets, at least when compared to Dawes, Fritsche, Prucha etc.
Watch him score 2 tonight, and your nitpicking will be in vein.



Agreed though.

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12-10-2008, 03:06 PM
  #42
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Watch him score 2 tonight, and your nitpicking will be in vein.



Agreed though.
Nobody will be happier than me if he does.

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12-10-2008, 03:08 PM
  #43
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If any of you ever think Callahan will become a prolific goal scorer, you're only fooling yourselves. He doesn't have it in him. All he has is hustle -- and he's almost falling into the Jed Ortmeyer role...which is borderline dead wood.

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12-10-2008, 03:09 PM
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Watch him score 2 tonight, and your nitpicking will be in vein.



Agreed though.
Thats why the whole "on pace for" argument doesn't hold much weight. I'll take 15 goals from Cally and everything else he brings in his first full year in the NHL and be happy. Expecting 25 goals IMO is a little ambitious.

I wouldn't mind the 2 goals though seeing as how he has only one in the past month (12 games). Which for those pace lovers, would leave him with 10/11 goals for the year if he continued on that pace. He's definitely a player that can provide a spark for this team.

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12-10-2008, 03:17 PM
  #45
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If any of you ever think Callahan will become a prolific goal scorer, you're only fooling yourselves. He doesn't have it in him. All he has is hustle -- and he's almost falling into the Jed Ortmeyer role...which is borderline dead wood.
Define prolific.

I know you said almost but the comparison to Ortmeyer isn't fair . Ortmeyer never scored the way Callahan has scored at any level. And Callahan's already produced more than Ortmeyer in the NHL.

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12-10-2008, 03:41 PM
  #46
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Define prolific.

I know you said almost but the comparison to Ortmeyer isn't fair . Ortmeyer never scored the way Callahan has scored at any level. And Callahan's already produced more than Ortmeyer in the NHL.
I agree. A more valid comparison to Callahan would probably be David Clarkson of the Devils, or Sean Bergenheim of the Islanders.

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12-10-2008, 03:54 PM
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I agree. A more valid comparison to Callahan would probably be David Clarkson of the Devils, or Sean Bergenheim of the Islanders.
DRAPER!!!!

ryan callahan is a kris draper type.

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12-10-2008, 03:54 PM
  #48
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I agree. A more valid comparison to Callahan would probably be David Clarkson of the Devils, or Sean Bergenheim of the Islanders.

I think he's going to be better offensively than Clarkson, maybe not as tough, but better overall.

I also think he's more upside than Bergenheim.

But I'm talking more about the fact that Callahan has managed to be a pretty big offensive player at every level he's played at. He had three seasons in Guelph where he was a point-per-game or better player. He scord 35 goals in 60 games in Hartford before the Rangers brought him up.

But both guys you mentioned are better comparisons than Ortmeyer.

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12-10-2008, 04:01 PM
  #49
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I think he's going to be better offensively than Clarkson, maybe not as tough, but better overall.

I also think he's more upside than Bergenheim.

But I'm talking more about the fact that Callahan has managed to be a pretty big offensive player at every level he's played at. He had three seasons in Guelph where he was a point-per-game or better player. He scord 35 goals in 60 games in Hartford before the Rangers brought him up.

But both guys you mentioned are better comparisons than Ortmeyer.
I don't feel like looking it up, but I think both Clarkson and Bergenheim have also had scoring success at lower levels. I mentioned them more because they're in the same age range as Callahan and play a similiar style. And I think all three teams are waiting for that breakout season from them. But for all three you need to take scoring at a lower level with a grain of salt.

The bottom lines of teams and the minors are littered with players who scored at junior, college, and/or the AHL, but could not replicate that in the NHL.

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12-10-2008, 04:07 PM
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I don't feel like looking it up, but I think both Clarkson and Bergenheim have also had scoring success at lower levels. I mentioned them more because they're in the same age range as Callahan and play a similiar style. And I think all three teams are waiting for that breakout season from them. But for all three you need to take scoring at a lower level with a grain of salt.

The bottom lines of teams and the minors are littered with players who scored at junior, college, and/or the AHL, but could not replicate that in the NHL.
Not really. Clarkson scored 33 goals one season in juniors and 20 one year in Lowell. And Bergenheim has scored 25 once in Bridgeport.

Ask Devil fans, I don't think any of them are holding their breath for Clarkson to break out offensively.

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