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Nastiness in Nashville: Preds vs Nucks

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Old
12-10-2008, 04:44 PM
  #176
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12-10-2008, 04:50 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by TorFC-TML View Post
Kesler deserves at least 3 games for that *****-*****-*******-punkass run on Weber. One of the dirtiest plays of the season.

Burrows' hang-time on that hit would make Lebron jealous on top of it.

Filthy, disgusting dirty hockey from the Canucks. Pathetic.
Can't even tell if this is a joke or not. Oh, and you forgot "classless". Or "classy", followed by an emoticon indicating sarcasm.

The problem with arguments over pests and agitators is that both sides of the debate are so firmly entrenched in their opinions that neither will budge an inch. And by both sides of the debate, I mean "Fans of the specific player/team in question" and "Everybody else".

Burrows isn't as dirty of a player as many people are making him out to be (Not saying he's a saint, but he's no Matt Cooke). Annoying as hell, sure. Verbally abusive? No question. But when people start throwing around phrases like "typical Burrows play" or "cheapshot artist", it indicates that they probably haven't watched Burrows play very much. He's the hardest working Canuck, and I'd be interested to see if people could bring up other specific incidents involving his "dirty play". Honestly, I'm curious. Other than this hit, the slash on Morrow in the 07 playoffs, and him and Kesler driving Derek Roy into the bench, I can't think of anything more harmful than a facewash or a crosscheck - things that happen on a nightly basis in the NHL. On the other hand, I could be forgetting something really obvious - so if somebody could refresh my memory I'd appreciate it.


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Old
12-10-2008, 04:52 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by JBIZ14 View Post
again...look at the airtime and high elbows at contact..
I appreciate the effort that Mr. Burrows' lawyers have spent on defending their client, but that "point of contact" is debatable because there was another point of contact of his elbow on his head after Burrows leaped in the air. The follow-through of the hit is still considered part of the hit and it was in the follow-through where Mr. Burrows' elbow made contact with Mr. Dumont's head.
This photo is insufficient evidence to prove anything. In fact, if Burrows had already made clean contact on Dumont's body and had taken him out of the play, as this photo might show, it just proves more clearly how unnecessary it was for him to leap in the air and hit Dumont in the head.
The amount of air time Burrows achieved leads me to believe that this was not typical physics of the hit, but rather a purposeful leap into an opponent, resulting in a hit to the head.

Your witness, counselor.

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Old
12-10-2008, 04:56 PM
  #179
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Old
12-10-2008, 05:14 PM
  #180
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I havent gone through all of this but to read the notes but that was one brutal game. I couldnt believe Arnott got 17 mins while VAN got a 7 min PP out of that first hit on Nichol. On XM, Pete Weber(isnt that their announcer?) was just going off on the refs. Then I saw it all 'on the fly' and all VAN hits had players leaving the ice for hits. There should be suspensions.. Anyway, my $.02...

go Sharks!

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Old
12-10-2008, 05:20 PM
  #181
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I see you that, and raise you this:

yeah, well DumDum isn't exactly the classiest hockey player.

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Old
12-10-2008, 05:21 PM
  #182
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I think it was great to watch the Canucks push a team around. Year after year they get bullied, it's nice to see they finally have some balls.

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Old
12-10-2008, 05:44 PM
  #183
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yeah, well DumDum isn't exactly the classiest hockey player.
Yeah so then the Preds shouldn't be crying the way they are.

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12-10-2008, 05:49 PM
  #184
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Old
12-10-2008, 05:49 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by teh SEAN HILL LMAO View Post
The problem with arguments over pests and agitators is that both sides of the debate are so firmly entrenched in their opinions that neither will budge an inch. And by both sides of the debate, I mean "Fans of the specific player/team in question" and "Everybody else".
Well considering im a Leafs fan who really likes the Canucks and doesnt think the Predators deserve to even exist I would say im fairly impartial on this issue.

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12-10-2008, 05:50 PM
  #186
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Yeah so then the Preds shouldn't be crying the way they are.
Using that logic, pretty much every team in the NHL has no right to complain about anything, ever.

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Old
12-10-2008, 05:50 PM
  #187
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the burrows hit was not dirty at all.

it wasn't an elbow, and his feet were on the ice at the point of contact.

i can prove it if that's something you guys would want.

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Old
12-10-2008, 05:53 PM
  #188
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Yes, and? The momentum from the Davison hit sent him flying into his own players' bench, does that mean "he jumped in with elbows flying!!!"? It's basic physics, come on now.

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12-10-2008, 05:57 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Mike NHL View Post
the burrows hit was not dirty at all.

it wasn't an elbow, and his feet were on the ice at the point of contact.

i can prove it if that's something you guys would want.
I already made a whole post about how's there more than one point of contact. You really think basic physics carried him that high in the air?
I'm not buying it, but I'm listening if you want to try to "prove" it.
A follow-through is part of a hit. It's not like those situations where a guy hits someone cleanly and then his elbow is up on the follow-through (but not hitting anything), making it look bad. His elbow directly connected with his head on the follow-through, which I think makes it part of the check, which was illegal IMO. If you want to bring out some physics about why Burrows ended up that high in the air, that's not my specialty but I think he leaped and I think he should be punished for it.

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Old
12-10-2008, 05:57 PM
  #190
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This thread is pure comedy.
Yeah, Vancouver and Edmonton fans were overdue for a pissing match.

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Old
12-10-2008, 06:10 PM
  #191
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Yeah, Vancouver and Edmonton fans were overdue for a pissing match.
Just imagine if there were more Calgary posters on this board.

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Old
12-10-2008, 06:10 PM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eph1413 View Post
I already made a whole post about how's there more than one point of contact. You really think basic physics carried him that high in the air?
I'm not buying it, but I'm listening if you want to try to "prove" it.
A follow-through is part of a hit. It's not like those situations where a guy hits someone cleanly and then his elbow is up on the follow-through (but not hitting anything), making it look bad. His elbow directly connected with his head on the follow-through, which I think makes it part of the check, which was illegal IMO. If you want to bring out some physics about why Burrows ended up that high in the air, that's not my specialty but I think he leaped and I think he should be punished for it.
leaving your feet during a hit isn't dirty or uncommon as long as you are planted when contact is made....and I have yet to see a single screenshot or angle of the hit that shows this vicious elbow. In fact the pic just posted shows him at his peak and his elbows are no where near his head...it was an awkward hit that could have been called a charge..but to say it was dirty and talk about suspensions is just wrong.

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Old
12-10-2008, 06:40 PM
  #193
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alright, here are three videos i just took to try and show my point of view. these clips come directly off my high def widescreen TV in slow motion, so they show off a decent amount of quality, but unfortunately i had capture the video off screen with a digital camera since i don't have the cable to connect my laptop to my PVR yet. quality isn't amazing, but it does show enough to get my point across.

you guys can feel free to download these videos right off my site:

1. Burrows Hit - 1st angle - (23 mb)

2. Burrows Hit - 2nd angle - (26 mb)

1. In terms of the alleged elbow, the thing you want to look out for in this video is the green stripe on the (canucks jersey) at the elbow. This obviously indicates where Burrows' elbow is. If you look and see where Burrows' arm makes contact with Dumont's shoulder/head, it's all white. Additionally, once Dumont falls down (or Burrows goes up, ha), you can see where his elbow is during the hit (the green stripe) and how it was actually behind Dumont's arm the entire time Dumont is falling down. If you look really closely, you can see that's it's the Burrows' NUMBER on the jersey (which is located more or less on the tricep) that makes contact with Dumont, not the elbow.

2. This is a really great angle, as it simply shows that neither of Burrows' elbows were anywhere near Dumont's head. I could've just shown you guys this one, but I felt it necessary to first establish all of this with the main angle that most of you saw.

Now what's also important about this clip is it shows in detail when Burrows makes contact with Dumont and when his feet leave the ground. This clip was originally in slow motion on Sportsnet, and I additionally slowed it down to 1/15th time on top of that. When you're watching this video, Burrows first makes contact with Dumont at 0:14 (of the actual video clip itself). You can see that his left foot is clearly planted on the ice and the toe of his right foot is still on the ice as well. Both of his feet don't leave the ground until the 0:19 part of the clip, in which time the hit has clearly already been engaged.

So there you go. People can post that picture of him in the air like Spiderman all they want, but that's the way I saw it.

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Old
12-10-2008, 06:59 PM
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eph1413 View Post
I appreciate the effort that Mr. Burrows' lawyers have spent on defending their client, but that "point of contact" is debatable because there was another point of contact of his elbow on his head after Burrows leaped in the air. The follow-through of the hit is still considered part of the hit and it was in the follow-through where Mr. Burrows' elbow made contact with Mr. Dumont's head.
This photo is insufficient evidence to prove anything. In fact, if Burrows had already made clean contact on Dumont's body and had taken him out of the play, as this photo might show, it just proves more clearly how unnecessary it was for him to leap in the air and hit Dumont in the head.
The amount of air time Burrows achieved leads me to believe that this was not typical physics of the hit, but rather a purposeful leap into an opponent, resulting in a hit to the head.

Your witness, counselor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike NHL View Post
alright, here are three videos i just took to try and show my point of view. these clips come directly off my high def widescreen TV in slow motion, so they show off a decent amount of quality, but unfortunately i had capture the video off screen with a digital camera since i don't have the cable to connect my laptop to my PVR yet. quality isn't amazing, but it does show enough to get my point across.

you guys can feel free to download these videos right off my site:

1. Burrows Hit - 1st angle - (23 mb)

2. Burrows Hit - 2nd angle - (26 mb)

1. In terms of the alleged elbow, the thing you want to look out for in this video is the green stripe on the (canucks jersey) at the elbow. This obviously indicates where Burrows' elbow is. If you look and see where Burrows' arm makes contact with Dumont's shoulder/head, it's all white. Additionally, once Dumont falls down (or Burrows goes up, ha), you can see where his elbow is during the hit (the green stripe) and how it was actually behind Dumont's arm the entire time Dumont is falling down. If you look really closely, you can see that's it's the Burrows' NUMBER on the jersey (which is located more or less on the tricep) that makes contact with Dumont, not the elbow.

2. This is a really great angle, as it simply shows that neither of Burrows' elbows were anywhere near Dumont's head. I could've just shown you guys this one, but I felt it necessary to first establish all of this with the main angle that most of you saw.

Now what's also important about this clip is it shows in detail when Burrows makes contact with Dumont and when his feet leave the ground. This clip was originally in slow motion on Sportsnet, and I additionally slowed it down to 1/15th time on top of that. When you're watching this video, Burrows first makes contact with Dumont at 0:14 (of the actual video clip itself). You can see that his left foot is clearly planted on the ice and the toe of his right foot is still on the ice as well. Both of his feet don't leave the ground until the 0:19 part of the clip, in which time the hit has clearly already been engaged.

So there you go. People can post that picture of him in the air like Spiderman all they want, but that's the way I saw it.
Defense rests.

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Old
12-10-2008, 07:00 PM
  #195
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The second video is actually pretty definitive. Nice job.

People leave their feet on follow through all the time. Burrows' awkward style didn't do him any favours in making it look clean, but the second video is clear as day.

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Old
12-10-2008, 07:03 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Mike NHL View Post
alright, here are three videos i just took to try and show my point of view. these clips come directly off my high def widescreen TV in slow motion, so they show off a decent amount of quality, but unfortunately i had capture the video off screen with a digital camera since i don't have the cable to connect my laptop to my PVR yet. quality isn't amazing, but it does show enough to get my point across.

you guys can feel free to download these videos right off my site:

1. Burrows Hit - 1st angle - (23 mb)

2. Burrows Hit - 2nd angle - (26 mb)

1. In terms of the alleged elbow, the thing you want to look out for in this video is the green stripe on the (canucks jersey) at the elbow. This obviously indicates where Burrows' elbow is. If you look and see where Burrows' arm makes contact with Dumont's shoulder/head, it's all white. Additionally, once Dumont falls down (or Burrows goes up, ha), you can see where his elbow is during the hit (the green stripe) and how it was actually behind Dumont's arm the entire time Dumont is falling down. If you look really closely, you can see that's it's the Burrows' NUMBER on the jersey (which is located more or less on the tricep) that makes contact with Dumont, not the elbow.

2. This is a really great angle, as it simply shows that neither of Burrows' elbows were anywhere near Dumont's head. I could've just shown you guys this one, but I felt it necessary to first establish all of this with the main angle that most of you saw.

Now what's also important about this clip is it shows in detail when Burrows makes contact with Dumont and when his feet leave the ground. This clip was originally in slow motion on Sportsnet, and I additionally slowed it down to 1/15th time on top of that. When you're watching this video, Burrows first makes contact with Dumont at 0:14 (of the actual video clip itself). You can see that his left foot is clearly planted on the ice and the toe of his right foot is still on the ice as well. Both of his feet don't leave the ground until the 0:19 part of the clip, in which time the hit has clearly already been engaged.

So there you go. People can post that picture of him in the air like Spiderman all they want, but that's the way I saw it.
Quoting this again just so people who were WRONG will know they were WRONG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames 4 Life View Post
The hits were dirty but what is more comical is the run and turtle job by Burrows and Kessler. What a couple of Vags'. Can't even answer the call just run and hide.
You can't even spell Kesler right, which means I doubt you even watched either clips. Kesler didn't turtle, he turned around and tried protecting himself from Weber who just started throwing them. Burrows was jumped pretty late after the hit.

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Old
12-10-2008, 07:08 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by JBIZ14 View Post
Defense rests.
O.K. I guess. But just look at how high in the air he ends up. That's far different than your skates/body coming up a bit after a big hit. That's a jump in my book.
I won't be able to come up with a physics lesson as to what his arms and legs would be doing naturally after that kind of impact, so I'll accept that. But he is in the air like one of those drills we used to do where we'd have to jump some cones and keep the puck to test your agility on skates.

Not definitive enough for a suspension, but Burrows jumped and I think everybody who's not a Canucks fan knows that and I'd like to see that visor shoved up his a** next time.

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12-10-2008, 07:13 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by eph1413 View Post
O.K. I guess. But just look at how high in the air he ends up. That's far different than your skates/body coming up a bit after a big hit. That's a jump in my book.
I won't be able to come up with a physics lesson as to what his arms and legs would be doing naturally after that kind of impact, so I'll accept that. But he is in the air like one of those drills we used to do where we'd have to jump some cones and keep the puck to test your agility on skates.

Not definitive enough for a suspension, but Burrows jumped and I think everybody who's not a Canucks fan knows that and I'd like to see that visor shoved up his a** next time.
Are you serious? Those two videos in tandem pretty much prove the hit was completely legal. Burrows hit him with his shoulder, and his feet were on the ice. The impact caused him to be thrown backwards, and thus his feet left the ice at that point. Charging calls only apply when the player leaves his feet to hit a guy, not when he leaves his feet after the contact.

Additionally, those videos also show there was no elbow whatsoever.

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Old
12-10-2008, 07:13 PM
  #199
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What is funny is you can post perfect "proof" but some jackazz down the road is still gonna go on flapping about how "cheap" the Burrows hit was.

I have to hand it to Canuck fans. I can rememebr 2 times this year that Canuck fans and Hockey fans have strongly disagreed. Both times the Vancouver fans have been right.

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12-10-2008, 07:14 PM
  #200
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LOL it's NOT going to stop some of the cry baby Oiler fans. They do this every year, they try these antics with the Flames organization. The select few, slander and discredit others. I kid you not...mentally challenged people have more ability to understand than those Oiler fans that come on these boards to start arguments. By the end of the Hockey season, they will have at least 3 more arguments with other fan bases.

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