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OT : I can't see why Tampa would hang on to Vinny.

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Old
12-09-2008, 04:32 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Justin Dickie View Post
Doesn't Ottawa have Tampa's 2009 1st from the Meszaros trade? That would be reason not to gun for the top pick, that is if you were referring to the 2009 draft.
Really ??!!! Wow, at least Ottawa knows the're getting a franchise player this year at the draft. Crap, I guess we'll be playing against Hedman next year.

EDIT: scratch that, would've been crazy though


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12-09-2008, 04:41 PM
  #52
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Old
12-09-2008, 04:47 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by ROEN View Post
Nothing but someone walking in and pretty much saying = Guys, Bolts, Stars and Habs are talking
- Me saying = any names mentionned ? answer being = not to me
Ek, you do realise theres a lost password feature on here right

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Old
12-10-2008, 11:09 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
NHL network is saying the cap will most likely drop next year.

From what I've read, the escrow account is hands off and the teams will be forced to stay under the cap through evacuation of contracts.

Yes, I as well.
So how can it drop when when the cap is related to revenues and Bettman says revenues will be up :

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=397035

""The games will be played and we are doing OK this season. Revenues will be up and there will be real growth. But, like everyone else, we need to be observant, flexible and proactive to deal with the uncertainties the future will bring.""

Like I said before, attendance are up, and now Bettman confirms that revenues are up. If at the end of the season revenues are higher than last season, the cap goes up. Bettman also confirms what I said about next season being the one to watch out for a fallout in revenues :

"""The sense is that we are doing OK this season, but there is a great deal of uncertainty about the future, particularly next season."""

I don't know what you read on NHLnetwork, but I'm betting you made that up so you could use a fake figure of authority as a mechanism to win an argument without having to put in the effort.

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12-10-2008, 11:45 AM
  #55
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Tampa wont let Lecavalier go. After trading Brad Richards away, hes will be about the only interesting player that team has for next five years.

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12-10-2008, 12:01 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Marksman View Post
Tampa wont let Lecavalier go. After trading Brad Richards away, hes will be about the only interesting player that team has for next five years.
Have you seen Stamkos? (tm)

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12-10-2008, 12:28 PM
  #57
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I heard from a good source that the cap will stay the same next year, but the year after that it might dip into the high 40's.

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Old
12-10-2008, 01:03 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
I heard from a good source that the cap will stay the same next year, but the year after that it might dip into the high 40's.
Ouch, I'd heard about the cap staying within 2 mil of what it is now for next season. But I haven't heard that it would drop by that much for the year after.

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12-10-2008, 01:13 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
Ouch, I'd heard about the cap staying within 2 mil of what it is now for next season. But I haven't heard that it would drop by that much for the year after.
Either McKenzie or Dreger said it on a TSN broadcast. I think it's legit.

As to the OP, they will definitely keep Vinny. He's the only reason people go to games with no Boyle or Richards. I think they'll keep both Vinny and Marty in a desperate attempt to generate some revenue. Selling both and rebuilding is the right way to go, but impossible to do and save the team.

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Old
12-10-2008, 01:26 PM
  #60
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I don't know what you read on NHLnetwork, but I'm betting you made that up so you could use a fake figure of authority as a mechanism to win an argument without having to put in the effort.
Didn't say I "read" anything, said I heard Espo talking about it on the NHL network. TSN has been talking about it as well. Nice try to look like an investigative reporter, I'll pass along your resume to Dateline.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 12-10-2008 at 02:10 PM. Reason: No personal shots.
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Old
12-10-2008, 01:35 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Didn't say I "read" anything, said I heard Espo talking about it on the NHL network. TSN has been talking about it as well. Nice try to look like an investigative reporter, I'll pass along your resume to Dateline.
LOL.... as always, try to refute an argument with a personal attack. I'd rather take it from the horse's mouth, and it says that I was right.

Your frustration is very transparent here.


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12-10-2008, 01:42 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
Ouch, I'd heard about the cap staying within 2 mil of what it is now for next season. But I haven't heard that it would drop by that much for the year after.
waffledave is only speculating.

Bettman, just yesterday said that there was a growth in revenues, in the 1st quarter of the season. Attendance are also up.

If at the end of the season, revenues are higher than the year before, they have no choice but to raise the cap, per the CBA.

If at the end of the season, revenues are lower than the year before, part of the escrow accounts will be given back to the league so that player's total salaries will correspond to 57% of total revenues, and in the case of a big drop of the total revenues compared to the previous season, they will have to agree with the players to take out a bigger % of player's salaries to be put into escrow accounts, and keep the cap at the same amount as the season before. Also note that the escrow % is revised 3 times in the season, and once at the end of the season when the financial numbers are in.

The cap doesn't go down, ever. Unless there is an extreme condition and an agreement is done between the two parties (NHL and NHLPA). In this case, player's salaries will be cut in a percentage equal to the difference that would put the total of player's salaries to 56% of total revenues at the end of year, cut equally with the appropriate corresponding % among players.

It's all there in the CBA, article 49. Long read.

http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf

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Old
12-10-2008, 02:08 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
waffledave is only speculating.

Bettman, just yesterday said that there was a growth in revenues, in the 1st quarter of the season. Attendance are also up.

If at the end of the season, revenues are higher than the year before, they have no choice but to raise the cap, per the CBA.

If at the end of the season, revenues are lower than the year before, part of the escrow accounts will be given back to the league so that player's total salaries will correspond to 57% of total revenues, and in the case of a big drop of the total revenues compared to the previous season, they will have to agree with the players to take out a bigger % of player's salaries to be put into escrow accounts, and keep the cap at the same amount as the season before. Also note that the escrow % is revised 3 times in the season, and once at the end of the season when the financial numbers are in.

The cap doesn't go down, ever. Unless there is an extreme condition and an agreement is done between the two parties (NHL and NHLPA). In this case, player's salaries will be cut in a percentage equal to the difference that would put the total of player's salaries to 56% of total revenues at the end of year, cut equally with the appropriate corresponding % among players.

It's all there in the CBA, article 49. Long read.

http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf
Thanks Oz, sadly in my spare time I've read that. I'm a bit of a hockey nerd.

I'm just going by the report I heard/saw on TSN last night. Not from any real source, such as Bettman or any other NHL rep. They felt that with the economy slowing down, it will affect the last 3 quarters in a negative way. Making this years profits, lower than last year. It was only their opinion, it wasn't backed by concrete evidence.

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Old
12-10-2008, 02:20 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
Thanks Oz, sadly in my spare time I've read that. I'm a bit of a hockey nerd.

I'm just going by the report I heard/saw on TSN last night. Not from any real source, such as Bettman or any other NHL rep. They felt that with the economy slowing down, it will affect the last 3 quarters in a negative way. Making this years profits, lower than last year. It was only their opinion, it wasn't backed by concrete evidence.
yeah, but anyway, lower or high revenues is not really a concern, as the Habs are concerned cap-wise. I'm tired of hearing people say the cap will go down, it won't, they will use the escrow account with a higher % to compensate the losses and keep the cap at the same amount if the revenues do go down. And in the advent that both parties would agree to lower the cap, in the event of a catastrophic collapse of the revenues, the logic as always been to tie salaries to revenues, and lowering the cap without lowering the salaries would be the opposite of this logic. That's why there was the 24% paycut, that's why there's the escrow account, and that's why if the cap one day goes down, the salaries will go down accordingly.

I'm just tired of all the alarmists who believe the cap will go down and that the salaries will remain the same. As if they are gonna let over 10 teams deal with caps over 52 mil with a new max cap under 50 mil. It jsut doesn't make sense.

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Old
12-11-2008, 06:58 AM
  #65
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If Tampa would still be crap by half of the season and I would be the Tampa owners, I seriously would try to move Lecavalier. Not that they will and they probably won't but given the mega money problem they have, not only they don't have any but cannot borrow at this time in the US and the former Tampa owner won't take the team back, getting rid of Vinny wouldn't be the worst thing they could do. You have an awful team going nowhere soon with several elephant-size contracts, if I were them, I wouldn't rule out doing a fire sale.

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Old
12-11-2008, 07:52 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
The cap doesn't go down, ever. Unless there is an extreme condition and an agreement is done between the two parties (NHL and NHLPA). In this case, player's salaries will be cut in a percentage equal to the difference that would put the total of player's salaries to 56% of total revenues at the end of year, cut equally with the appropriate corresponding % among players.

It's all there in the CBA, article 49. Long read.

http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf
Unfortunately Article 49 of the CBA does not determine the Cap, Article 50 does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBA Article 50.5 (b)
"Lower Limit" and "Upper Limit."

For each League Year there shall be a "Lower Limit" and an "Upper Limit" at or between which each Club must have an Averaged Club Salary. The range between the Lower Limit and Upper Limit shall be known as the "Team Payroll Range" (the "Payroll Range" or "Range"). (i) The Upper and Lower Limits of the Team Payroll Range shall be determined in accordance with the following formula:

Preliminary HRR for the prior League Year multiplied by [x] the Applicable Percentage (as defined in Section 50.4(b) of this Agreement), minus [-] Preliminary Benefits, divided [/] by the number of Clubs then playing in the NHL (e.g., 30), shall equal [=] the Midpoint of the Payroll Range, which shall be adjusted upward by a factor of five (5) percent in each League Year (yielding the
Adjusted Midpoint) until League-wide Actual HRR equals or exceeds $2.1 billion, at which point the five (5) percent growth factor shall continue unless or until either party to this Agreement proposes a different growth factor based on actual revenue experience and/or projections, in which case the parties shall discuss and agree upon a new factor. If a significant (i.e., $20 million or more) one-time increase or decrease to League-wide revenues (e.g., by reason of the addition or loss of a national television contract or the cheduled opening of one or more new arenas which is expected to result in a significant increase in League-wide revenues) is anticipated in the next League Year, the parties will endeavor to estimate the expected increase or decrease and incorporate that estimate into the above-stated formula for calculating the Adjusted Midpoint.
If the Leaguewide Hockey Related Revenues (HRR) drop significantly (actually, more than 5 %), the cap will decrease as desribed above. If the cap would decrease, there would quite likely be escrow payment from players to the owners (as desrcibed in Article 49), but it would not prevent the cap being lower for the following season.

The one thing that can not change under the current CBA is the existing contracts. Even is Cap would decrease, the current contracts would remain, even if they would be more than 10 % of the new cap.

Now, back to the topic....

Since quite nice amount of NHL's revenues are generated already before the season begins (arena sponsors, season ticket holders etc.), they have not been affected by the economy. For this season. The effects would be felt next season with less season tickets sold and difficulties to renew expiring sponsorships (arena's named after car companies are extremely vulnerable). For this season it is reasonable to assume that excitement in certain strong markets (Boston and Chigago especially) could outfight the decrease in actual value of canadian revenues (due the falling loonie) and as Bettman suggested, the cap could well stay at current level for the next season, give or take one or two millions.

The next season is currently totally in the dark. If things are looking grim still next summer, one would expect that season ticket and similar revenues for the season 2009-2010 would be smaller, leading to lower cap for 2010-2011 season.

Still, I really doubt Vinny would be moved. but with Tampa's current ownership, anything isn't really out of question.


Last edited by Noldo: 12-11-2008 at 09:42 AM.
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Old
12-11-2008, 08:01 AM
  #67
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Vinny will be more likely hanging to TBay than TBay hanging to Vinny.......Unless the team is relocated, Vinny loves TBay, is implicated in that city and just represent the Lighting. The guy certainly have NTC, and from everything we hear, I would be really surprised to see him wanting to move and even come here....

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12-11-2008, 09:28 AM
  #68
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Okay let me be the first to put a silly package for Vinny (assuming he waive his no trade to play in Montreal)

Plekanec
Latendresse
Higgins
Halak
1st in 09
1st in 10


For Lecavalier

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12-11-2008, 09:41 AM
  #69
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I predict Lightings will be moved to Quebec in about 5-6 years from now..
Not if the looney continues to sink vs. the US dollar.

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Old
12-11-2008, 10:13 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
Okay let me be the first to put a silly package for Vinny (assuming he waive his no trade to play in Montreal)

Plekanec
Latendresse
Higgins
Halak
1st in 09
1st in 10


For Lecavalier
I think Gainey would rather part with prospects than both of our first round picks. Good prospects Tampa Bay would want like Weber, Subban, Maxwell, maybe Mcdonagh. God package though.

Plekanec
Higgins
Latendresse
Halak
Weber
2nd round pick 2010

??

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12-11-2008, 10:16 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
waffledave is only speculating.

Bettman, just yesterday said that there was a growth in revenues, in the 1st quarter of the season. Attendance are also up.

If at the end of the season, revenues are higher than the year before, they have no choice but to raise the cap, per the CBA.

If at the end of the season, revenues are lower than the year before, part of the escrow accounts will be given back to the league so that player's total salaries will correspond to 57% of total revenues, and in the case of a big drop of the total revenues compared to the previous season, they will have to agree with the players to take out a bigger % of player's salaries to be put into escrow accounts, and keep the cap at the same amount as the season before. Also note that the escrow % is revised 3 times in the season, and once at the end of the season when the financial numbers are in.

The cap doesn't go down, ever. Unless there is an extreme condition and an agreement is done between the two parties (NHL and NHLPA). In this case, player's salaries will be cut in a percentage equal to the difference that would put the total of player's salaries to 56% of total revenues at the end of year, cut equally with the appropriate corresponding % among players.

It's all there in the CBA, article 49. Long read.

http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf
Most of the revenues are made before the season starts. Season ticket sales and all that...That revenue comes in early. It's the revenues for NEXT year that are expected to be less. The cap for next year is already decided, basically, since the money is already in.

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Old
12-11-2008, 02:06 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Most of the revenues are made before the season starts. Season ticket sales and all that...That revenue comes in early. It's the revenues for NEXT year that are expected to be less. The cap for next year is already decided, basically, since the money is already in.
Please don't get our resident union/cba/financial expert all wound up again, he gets sensitive when he's proven wrong.

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Old
01-12-2009, 06:15 PM
  #73
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Bump : Hate to toot my own horn .. as usual.. but... hey.. I'm a visionary, a legend in my own mind.

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01-12-2009, 10:47 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
I heard from a good source that the cap will stay the same next year, but the year after that it might dip into the high 40's.
do you know how much loss it will take to make the cap go down by that much.

I call bull* on your source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Most of the revenues are made before the season starts. Season ticket sales and all that...That revenue comes in early. It's the revenues for NEXT year that are expected to be less. The cap for next year is already decided, basically, since the money is already in.
most tv contracts won't have to be re-negociated this year I believe...

tickets are and corporate support is the missing piece for teams like phoenix and tampa ... and since its different for every team, every year, it means everything could change on a dime ... for them. but it would take huge losses to make the cap go down by 5+ milions.

unless canadian teams are hit hard by the crisis , I'd be surprise to see the cap go down by that much.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 01-13-2009 at 04:10 PM.
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01-12-2009, 11:56 PM
  #75
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i heard lady gaga is coming to mtl in march shhh**

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