HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Kalinin is dreadful

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-11-2008, 11:41 AM
  #51
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 15,439
vCash: 500
1) People that say +/- is a useless stat, please shut up: It's a useless stat when used in an argument against a guy like Brian Leetch or Rod Brindamour, who are both very responsible year in and year out and may be just caught in a little misfortune.

Kalinin is KNOWN throughout the hockey world as a turnover machine who is capable of imploding at any given moment on the ice. We were wanred by Sabres fans, and now we are witnessing first hand the worst defenseman since Bozolinsh


2) The Rangers have won 19 games. How many of those games can you truthfully say "Man, kalinin was great tonight". Keep thinking.


3) To all Kalinin supporters: enjoy him while you can. he's gone in a few months



He is garbage. Waste of a signing.

GWOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2008, 11:54 AM
  #52
jniklast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Germany
Posts: 4,787
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrenTurcotte8 View Post
1) People that say +/- is a useless stat, please shut up: It's a useless stat when used in an argument against a guy like Brian Leetch or Rod Brindamour, who are both very responsible year in and year out and may be just caught in a little misfortune.

Kalinin is KNOWN throughout the hockey world as a turnover machine who is capable of imploding at any given moment on the ice. We were wanred by Sabres fans, and now we are witnessing first hand the worst defenseman since Bozolinsh


2) The Rangers have won 19 games. How many of those games can you truthfully say "Man, kalinin was great tonight". Keep thinking.


3) To all Kalinin supporters: enjoy him while you can. he's gone in a few months



He is garbage. Waste of a signing.
ok, so you simply need a big name that +/- is ignored?
and nobody i think said that kalinin was great, he is ok for a #6 though.

so how many games have we lost because of kalinin?

jniklast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2008, 12:01 PM
  #53
ThisYearsModel
Registered User
 
ThisYearsModel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 7,040
vCash: 500
Kalinin is a horror show. If he were contributing at all on the offensive side, there might be some excuse. However, he is not and his defense is the only thing offensive about him. He was a terrible signing and should have already been sent to Hartford. Look at the evidence. Look at the +/- of everyone who gets partnered with him. It immediately goes down the tubes.

ThisYearsModel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2008, 12:22 PM
  #54
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 15,439
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jniklast View Post
ok, so you simply need a big name that +/- is ignored?
and nobody i think said that kalinin was great, he is ok for a #6 though.

so how many games have we lost because of kalinin?



No. I'm just saying that when a guy LIKE Brian leetch is a -30, his track record (like the 1994 playoffs, the 1997 playoffs) that he is much better defensively than a season's +/- would indicate.

Kalinin being a -15 with zero goals means he is just cementing his reputation a a guy who turns the puck over in his own zone ad nauseum and is replaceable.


And since you ask, two games that come to mind was the Toronto debacle, and Calgary's 1st goal. But seriously, if you think kalinin is a sound, solid defenseman, then fine. I guess we hold the rangers and certain players to different standards

I won't count the turnovers that led to goals in Ranger wins because hey, life is peachy.

GWOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2008, 12:37 PM
  #55
NYROrtsFan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrenTurcotte8 View Post
1) People that say +/- is a useless stat, please shut up: It's a useless stat when used in an argument against a guy like Brian Leetch or Rod Brindamour, who are both very responsible year in and year out and may be just caught in a little misfortune.

Kalinin is KNOWN throughout the hockey world as a turnover machine who is capable of imploding at any given moment on the ice. We were wanred by Sabres fans, and now we are witnessing first hand the worst defenseman since Bozolinsh


2) The Rangers have won 19 games. How many of those games can you truthfully say "Man, kalinin was great tonight". Keep thinking.


3) To all Kalinin supporters: enjoy him while you can. he's gone in a few months



He is garbage. Waste of a signing.
Actually, he really hasn't been all that bad with turnovers.

He's just awful in terms of positioning and the choices he makes. He's also very slow at times to diagnose plays before they happen. He hasn't felt the wrath of the clowns in the 400s because he hasn't been a turnover machine and he does hit from time to time. He's just awful in the less obvious ways, ala how good Malik was in the less obvious ways.

NYROrtsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2008, 12:44 PM
  #56
HockeyBasedNYC
Registered User
 
HockeyBasedNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Here
Country: United States
Posts: 12,954
vCash: 500
We should change the thread title to "Bench Kalinin - Start Potter"

HockeyBasedNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2008, 12:50 PM
  #57
Melrose_Jr.
Registered User
 
Melrose_Jr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Providence, RI
Country: United States
Posts: 10,692
vCash: 500
I've seen very few major gaffes from Kalinin. No more than I've seen from everyone else on the blue line.

All the defensemen would have their +/- improved if the forwards were putting more pucks in the net, or were not missing their defensive assignments deep in the zone.

Melrose_Jr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2008, 12:56 PM
  #58
HockeyBasedNYC
Registered User
 
HockeyBasedNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Here
Country: United States
Posts: 12,954
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYROrtsFan View Post
Actually, he really hasn't been all that bad with turnovers.

He's just awful in terms of positioning and the choices he makes. He's also very slow at times to diagnose plays before they happen. He hasn't felt the wrath of the clowns in the 400s because he hasn't been a turnover machine and he does hit from time to time. He's just awful in the less obvious ways, ala how good Malik was in the less obvious ways.

You're right. Hes doing just enough out there to satisfy those who really don't look at the game in detail. His positioning is horrendous, and his first move to the puck is just as bad. When he retrieves the puck he looks across the ice first when he should be looking up the boards or to his partner. He may not make that pass, but by the time he makes his decision a forechecker is on him and it leads him to throw a lower percentage pass (which might be the right pass) into the skates or into an area where a teammate will be met by the opposition quickly. The Rangers might get out of it and go up the ice, but thats not the point. Its the unseen little things and quick decisions in the defensive zone which lead to better rushes up the other end and more support up the ice, instead of fragmented plays.

His +/- stat is telling despite what people say. The + stat is more over rated then the - When discussing Malik, he was garnering the pluses by riding on the coattails of Jagr and company. Its easier to make that case than the case of Kalinin's minuses when he is a defensman and the mistakes leading to goals are as plain to see as anything in hockey. Last night he left a gap of about 15 feet from Crabb because he was undecided about changing. His hesitation is to blame, again. Tom Renney always preaches decisiveness in one's game. He lacks that big time. True, the Rangers arent scoring, so hes not getting any pluses to make up for it, but hes not doing whats necessary to move the play in the right direction to get those goals. Redden has blown this season too, but hes got 13 assists because he can get the play moving, compared to 6 for Dmitri.

I'd like to see him replaced by Potter, at least for 2 or 3 games. It can't be that much worse. Potter has shown he can not only play a pretty decent game, but get involved offensively ala Girardi (getting pucks to the net) and also do a superior job of clearing the front of the net compared to Kalinin.

If there is any benefit of the doubt given to Kalinin i have no idea why. Hes played 30 games as a Ranger, the Rangers owe him nothing. Its not like they traded away assets to gain his services, he was a UFA and a depth signing. Treating the guy with kid gloves is the wrong thing to do, because the fans are about 2 inches away from jumping on him anyway, just like Buffalo did. If he has such a fragile ego, then youll want to stay away from that. Send him off for a few games and show him tapes, in the meantime start the rookie and you might even get better play out of him.

At this rate it cant hurt.


Last edited by HockeyBasedNYC: 12-11-2008 at 01:03 PM.
HockeyBasedNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2008, 03:53 PM
  #59
PromNite
Armed Android
 
PromNite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tampa, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 7,544
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to PromNite
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I've seen very few major gaffes from Kalinin. No more than I've seen from everyone else on the blue line.

All the defensemen would have their +/- improved if the forwards were putting more pucks in the net, or were not missing their defensive assignments deep in the zone.
Agreed.

Kalinen's +/- is horrible because he plays on a low pairing on a team that cannot score to save their lives.

__________________


Adam Tensta's from the 163
PromNite is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2008, 03:57 PM
  #60
PromNite
Armed Android
 
PromNite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tampa, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 7,544
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to PromNite
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
At this rate it cant hurt.
Ask Squishy, the local Pack expert.

She reiterates that Potter, Sangs, and every other d-man in Hartford are making the same mistakes that Rozsy, Redden and Kalinen are making, but in the AHL.

Bringing them up might be a major mistake. Remember when when we brought up Pock for a stint last season? *shudder*

We don't have the defensive depth to shake up the blueline. We have to stick with the guys we have and hope Tom can whip them into shape.

PromNite is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2008, 04:00 PM
  #61
NYRFAN218
Mac Truck
 
NYRFAN218's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,282
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I've seen very few major gaffes from Kalinin. No more than I've seen from everyone else on the blue line.

All the defensemen would have their +/- improved if the forwards were putting more pucks in the net, or were not missing their defensive assignments deep in the zone.
I don't think he's been as terrible either. All he is, is a 6th defensemen. Nothing more, nothing less. On the flip side though, he hasn't played as well the past 3 games and that explains why his +/- dropped about 10 points.

NYRFAN218 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2008, 04:24 PM
  #62
Rangerfan4life90
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: College Point, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 4,659
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrenTurcotte8 View Post
1) People that say +/- is a useless stat, please shut up: It's a useless stat when used in an argument against a guy like Brian Leetch or Rod Brindamour, who are both very responsible year in and year out and may be just caught in a little misfortune.

Kalinin is KNOWN throughout the hockey world as a turnover machine who is capable of imploding at any given moment on the ice. We were wanred by Sabres fans, and now we are witnessing first hand the worst defenseman since Bozolinsh


2) The Rangers have won 19 games. How many of those games can you truthfully say "Man, kalinin was great tonight". Keep thinking.


3) To all Kalinin supporters: enjoy him while you can. he's gone in a few months



He is garbage. Waste of a signing.
YES plus/minus is a useless stat

Kalinin has been very good for a 3rd pair d-man/stop gap. Yes he is gone in a few months but that doesn't mean he has played horrible

Rangerfan4life90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2008, 04:33 PM
  #63
SML
Registered User
 
SML's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 3,743
vCash: 500
Kalinin is the anti-Malik. The same baffling way malik always manged to be a +2 at the end of the game, Kalinin seems to be a -2. Every one of those is not his fault. Some are, certainly, but not all. If Marek Malik were a poisonous snake and you were bitten by him, the anti-venom would be derived from Kalinin. "Bizarro Malik"!

SML is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2008, 04:35 PM
  #64
SML
Registered User
 
SML's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 3,743
vCash: 500
Oh, by the way, if you think he's terrible, just wait until next season when we're even more cap bound and have even less budget to work with to see what kind of horror shows we're going ot be forced to parade out onto the blueline on a nightly basis.

SML is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2008, 05:00 PM
  #65
Vitto79
Registered User
 
Vitto79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sarnia
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,674
vCash: 500
Soooooooooo who is with me on dealing Kalinin and his 2.1 million salary now?, hmmm hmmmm

It's doabbe folks, he is a FA next yr and someone will take him for a playoff run...........for god sakes the Rangers took Backman and he had a few yrs left on the contract

I cant believe Potter was sent down and not inserted......come on man

Vitto79 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2008, 06:42 PM
  #66
jniklast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Germany
Posts: 4,787
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
Soooooooooo who is with me on dealing Kalinin and his 2.1 million salary now?, hmmm hmmmm

It's doabbe folks, he is a FA next yr and someone will take him for a playoff run...........for god sakes the Rangers took Backman and he had a few yrs left on the contract

I cant believe Potter was sent down and not inserted......come on man
i'm open to trading kalinin, but only if a dman is coming back. otherwise what if someone get's injured? then it's fahey or denisov or someone like that, and i don't know if i'd like that.

but if you trade kalinin, and another dman is coming back, the cap space you'd save would probably pretty minimal.

jniklast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2008, 06:50 PM
  #67
Radek27
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,179
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Radek27
Quote:
Originally Posted by jniklast View Post
i'm open to trading kalinin, but only if a dman is coming back. otherwise what if someone get's injured? then it's fahey or denisov or someone like that, and i don't know if i'd like that.

but if you trade kalinin, and another dman is coming back, the cap space you'd save would probably pretty minimal.
Fahey was a guy posters wanted to make it out of camp, he sure didn't look out of place. Denisov I really liked, he played a good physical game which is something we need right now. I only saw Denisov the one preseason game but I liked what I saw.

Radek27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2008, 06:52 PM
  #68
Burlington Bomb 26
Louie Louie Oh oh
 
Burlington Bomb 26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Green Mountain State
Country: United States
Posts: 16,615
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrenTurcotte8 View Post
1) People that say +/- is a useless stat, please shut up: It's a useless stat when used in an argument against a guy like Brian Leetch or Rod Brindamour, who are both very responsible year in and year out and may be just caught in a little misfortune.

Kalinin is KNOWN throughout the hockey world as a turnover machine who is capable of imploding at any given moment on the ice. We were wanred by Sabres fans, and now we are witnessing first hand the worst defenseman since Bozolinsh


2) The Rangers have won 19 games. How many of those games can you truthfully say "Man, kalinin was great tonight". Keep thinking.


3) To all Kalinin supporters: enjoy him while you can. he's gone in a few months



He is garbage. Waste of a signing.
Hahahahah. You use Rod Brindamour as an example, when his +/- is -20, which is league leading worst, and 2nd on the Canes is -5. Kudos to you.

Burlington Bomb 26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2008, 09:53 PM
  #69
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 15,439
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
Hahahahah. You use Rod Brindamour as an example, when his +/- is -20, which is league leading worst, and 2nd on the Canes is -5. Kudos to you.


Seriously, why do you respond to my posts when every time you do, you come across as sophomoric and inept at understanding hockey.

In case you didn't know, Rod Brind'amour won back-to-back Selke trophies in 2006 and 2007. You know, that trophy given to the LEAGUE'S BEST DEFENSIVE FORWARD every year.

Anyway, if you read (I know it's tough for you) my post, it says that when people like Rod or Leetch have a bad +/- year it's an aberration (big word for you, I know) and the exception to the rule (most times), but in Kalinin's case, it speaks volumes of how poor a defenseman he is because he never had a reputation as a solid positional and reliable defenseman to begin with.

And no need for kudos. I already know how smart I am.

GWOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2008, 09:32 AM
  #70
MikeyLikesHockey
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 603
vCash: 500
I don't want to get rid of him yet. I think a lot of his woes fall to playing with Rosi.

Play Kalinin with Potter a few games and get back to me on this one.

I find that the team not wanting to try different dman combos disturbing.

How do any of these look?

Redden - Kalinin (maybe it will get Wade out of his funk)
Staal - Kalinin (mabye playing with the physical Staal will get him out of this funk)
Mara - Kalinin (Maybe playing with the toughguy will make him more tough)
Rosival - Kalinin (epic Fail)
Girardi - Kalinin (Maybe playing with a steady dman will make him more steady)

I think you will see some shuffling once Rosi is traded.

MikeyLikesHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2008, 01:56 PM
  #71
ThisYearsModel
Registered User
 
ThisYearsModel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 7,040
vCash: 500
Dmitri Kalinin has singlehandedly been killing the defensive effort. We've only had to look at plus/minus to tell -- in addition to being second worst in the league with a personal -17, Kalinin and his partners are a combined -33 for the season, while all other pairings are a combined +4, and that includes the minorly maligned Wade Redden and the much maligned Michal Rozsival, who is -13 when on the ice with Kalinin and +2 when paired with other partners.

How can anyone state that kalinin has been good, or even OK? The stats don't lie. The guy is a disaster.

ThisYearsModel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2008, 06:32 PM
  #72
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 15,439
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel View Post
Dmitri Kalinin has singlehandedly been killing the defensive effort. We've only had to look at plus/minus to tell -- in addition to being second worst in the league with a personal -17, Kalinin and his partners are a combined -33 for the season, while all other pairings are a combined +4, and that includes the minorly maligned Wade Redden and the much maligned Michal Rozsival, who is -13 when on the ice with Kalinin and +2 when paired with other partners.

How can anyone state that kalinin has been good, or even OK? The stats don't lie. The guy is a disaster.



Kalinin really doesn't contribute anything at all. He a more expensive version of Strudwick, but Strudwick was a bit more reliable and at least had an edge.

I know renney just loves those veteran players, but damn, I mean, how much longer do we have to wait for some of the defensemen in hartford to get a chance.

That's my whole argument with our garbage defensemen. i would rather they stink with prospects than stink with million-dollar NHL vets.

GWOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2008, 10:43 PM
  #73
MaximusT
Registered User
 
MaximusT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 975
vCash: 500
How the hell was he a +4 in this game?

MaximusT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2008, 10:51 PM
  #74
Shake and Bake
 
Shake and Bake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,367
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
You're right. Hes doing just enough out there to satisfy those who really don't look at the game in detail. His positioning is horrendous, and his first move to the puck is just as bad. When he retrieves the puck he looks across the ice first when he should be looking up the boards or to his partner. He may not make that pass, but by the time he makes his decision a forechecker is on him and it leads him to throw a lower percentage pass (which might be the right pass) into the skates or into an area where a teammate will be met by the opposition quickly. The Rangers might get out of it and go up the ice, but thats not the point. Its the unseen little things and quick decisions in the defensive zone which lead to better rushes up the other end and more support up the ice, instead of fragmented plays.

His +/- stat is telling despite what people say. The + stat is more over rated then the - When discussing Malik, he was garnering the pluses by riding on the coattails of Jagr and company. Its easier to make that case than the case of Kalinin's minuses when he is a defensman and the mistakes leading to goals are as plain to see as anything in hockey. Last night he left a gap of about 15 feet from Crabb because he was undecided about changing. His hesitation is to blame, again. Tom Renney always preaches decisiveness in one's game. He lacks that big time. True, the Rangers arent scoring, so hes not getting any pluses to make up for it, but hes not doing whats necessary to move the play in the right direction to get those goals. Redden has blown this season too, but hes got 13 assists because he can get the play moving, compared to 6 for Dmitri.

I'd like to see him replaced by Potter, at least for 2 or 3 games. It can't be that much worse. Potter has shown he can not only play a pretty decent game, but get involved offensively ala Girardi (getting pucks to the net) and also do a superior job of clearing the front of the net compared to Kalinin.

If there is any benefit of the doubt given to Kalinin i have no idea why. Hes played 30 games as a Ranger, the Rangers owe him nothing. Its not like they traded away assets to gain his services, he was a UFA and a depth signing. Treating the guy with kid gloves is the wrong thing to do, because the fans are about 2 inches away from jumping on him anyway, just like Buffalo did. If he has such a fragile ego, then youll want to stay away from that. Send him off for a few games and show him tapes, in the meantime start the rookie and you might even get better play out of him.

At this rate it cant hurt.

This is an EXCELLENT post....GREAT assessment HBNYC

Shake and Bake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2008, 10:53 PM
  #75
Shake and Bake
 
Shake and Bake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,367
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel View Post
Dmitri Kalinin has singlehandedly been killing the defensive effort. We've only had to look at plus/minus to tell -- in addition to being second worst in the league with a personal -17, Kalinin and his partners are a combined -33 for the season, while all other pairings are a combined +4, and that includes the minorly maligned Wade Redden and the much maligned Michal Rozsival, who is -13 when on the ice with Kalinin and +2 when paired with other partners.

How can anyone state that kalinin has been good, or even OK? The stats don't lie. The guy is a disaster.
For the people that brush off his personal plus/minus, I don't know hoe you can continue to do so after looking at that stat

Shake and Bake is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:38 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.