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Change In Leadership Needed: From Renney Down

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Old
12-12-2008, 10:04 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
agreed. This is arguement is getting old and the fact that this is what youre complaining about after tonight's loss, is an aboslute and utter joke. The defensemen were the reason we lost the game and NOT drury. It was Drury who drew a penalty with his hard work when they were on the PK in the third for a penalty Kalinin took previously. That's leading by example. Drury and Gomez played great tonight, they played their heart out and that's all they can really do. If they're teammates, especially the defensemen, cant follow in stride, thats not their fault.
This thread is NOT solely focused on Chris Drury. There are a lot of people on this board who have a problem of selective reading. When you go into a thread, it helps to read the first post first, so you know where the original poster is coming from.

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12-12-2008, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Balej20 View Post
This thread is NOT solely focused on Chris Drury. There are a lot of people on this board who have a problem of selective reading. When you go into a thread, it helps to read the first post first, so you know where the original poster is coming from.
Oh please dont even give me that. It is about drury,...its ALWAYS about drury. I mean considering the captain, thats where the title of "Change In Leadership Needed" would start to divulge into which is criticizing him

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12-12-2008, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
Oh please dont even give me that. It is about drury,...its ALWAYS about drury. I mean considering the captain, thats where the title of "Change In Leadership Needed" would start to divulge into which is criticizing him
Ok, I'm going to take the high road with you and simply direct you once again to the orginal post in this thread in which I clearly stated it is NOT all about Drury.

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12-12-2008, 10:09 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Balej20 View Post
I already stated this team, as a whole, lacks leadership. And I said it starts from the coach, down. Please read my first post. I'm not a fool. I know a letter on a jersey doesn't change a thing.

But the fact remains, quality leadership WOULD help this team get its act together. Absolutely.
Drury is a quality leader. Ranger fans didn't conjure this notion up out of nothing, so lets not pretend that he's some second-rate captain. The guy is renowned for his leadership qualities and that's why he was selected to be the captain.

Just because he isn't leading the way you think he should lead doesn't mean he's doing a bad job. Put Messier circa 1994 on this team and I still think you'll see a second-rate effort night after night. Frankly after the effort we've seen over the last few weeks, I'm amazed this team hasn't fallen apart completely.

You claim it's not about Drury, but you certainly seem to single him out quite a bit. You also claimed he hadn't shown you enough leadership qualities in the two years he's been here.

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12-12-2008, 10:10 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Balej20 View Post
I've personally never seen a more passive, quiet, invisible captain than Chris Drury. He doesn't lead by his words, nor does he lead by example. He does't talk to officials at the end of the periods or during the period (Lundqvist does by the way). He doesn't talk on the bench, he doesn't talk during time outs. All he does is clean his visor between every shift. At this point, with the way Gomez has been playing in the past 3, I'd sooner make him the Captain.

It doesn't end at Drury though. There are no leaders on this team. There is no leadership. From the coach down. I know a lot of us have been spoiled by the greatness of Mark Messier, but something must be done. This is a major problem for this team. It must be addressed.
Hmmmm......

youre right...not about drury at all

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12-12-2008, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Drury is a quality leader. Ranger fans didn't conjure this notion up out of nothing, so lets not pretend that he's some second-rate captain. The guy is renowned for his leadership qualities and that's why he was selected to be the captain.

Just because he isn't leading the way you think he should lead doesn't mean he's doing a bad job. Put Messier circa 1994 on this team and I still think you'll see a second-rate effort night after night. Frankly after the effort we've seen over the last few weeks, I'm amazed this team hasn't fallen apart completely.

You claim it's not about Drury, but you certainly seem to single him out quite a bit. You also claimed he hadn't shown you enough leadership qualities in the two years he's been here.
Dunno about that...

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12-12-2008, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Drury is a quality leader. Ranger fans didn't conjure this notion up out of nothing, so lets not pretend that he's some second-rate captain. The guy is renowned for his leadership qualities and that's why he was selected to be the captain.

Just because he isn't leading the way you think he should lead doesn't mean he's doing a bad job. Put Messier circa 1994 on this team and I still think you'll see a second-rate effort night after night. Frankly after the effort we've seen over the last few weeks, I'm amazed this team hasn't fallen apart completely.

You claim it's not about Drury, but you certainly seem to single him out quite a bit. You also claimed he hadn't shown you enough leadership qualities in the two years he's been here.
I can make the same argument right back at you. You and I have yet to actually witness these great "leadership qualities" because all these qualities apparently go on behind closed doors. So what exactly are you basing your argument on? Hearsay? I'm basing my argument on what I physically witness. You're basing it on what others have to say.

Yes, he's a good guy, and stand up guy, a nice guy. So what are people going to say about him? They're going to say good things. They aren't going to rip him.

Bottom line is, this team lacks leadership. And the first people you look towards when you are looking for leadership are the Coach and the Captain.

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12-12-2008, 10:16 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by TheZherdev View Post
Dunno about that...
It's only my opinion, but I don't think leadership is the problem. Is Messier going to come in and fix the awful defensive coverage? Is he going to fix our PP? Does he have the magic line combinations that Renney can't find? I doubt it. There are too many things wrong with the way this team is playing to be solved by "more leadership" or signing any single player.

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12-12-2008, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
It's only my opinion, but I don't think leadership is the problem. Is Messier going to come in and fix the awful defensive coverage? Is he going to fix our PP? Does he have the magic line combinations that Renney can't find? I doubt it. There are too many things wrong with the way this team is playing to be solved by "more leadership" or signing any single player.
Here's my issue. All the players on the Rangers are NHL Professional Hockey players, correct? Well, right now a lot of them are playing below that standard. The only explanation for that is a lack of leadership. A lack of coaching. A lack of communication. A lack of a plan.

All those things this team lack come from solid leadership. It's not all about the letter on a shirt.

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12-12-2008, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Balej20 View Post
I can make the same argument right back at you. You and I have yet to actually witness these great "leadership qualities" because all these qualities apparently go on behind closed doors. So what exactly are you basing your argument on? Hearsay? I'm basing my argument on what I physically witness. You're basing it on what others have to say.

Yes, he's a good guy, and stand up guy, a nice guy. So what are people going to say about him? They're going to say good things. They aren't going to rip him.

Bottom line is, this team lacks leadership. And the first people you look towards when you are looking for leadership are the Coach and the Captain.
I'm going by his reputation. The fact is that he was so highly touted by his previous organization(s) as a leader and teammate that I don't need to see what's going on behind closed doors. You don't garner that kind of praise by just being a nice guy.

The difference between us is I am willing to give the guy more than 33 games to show me he is a leader. He has never been a fire and brimstone captain and he never will be. He leads by example and right now he's trying to do that. The points aren't coming but he certainly isn't giving up. He's still working and he's still hustling.

Like I've said already, there are too many things wrong with this team to fixate on leadership. We have a lot of players playing some very bad hockey. To blame that on anyone other than those players themselves doesn't make sense to me.

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12-12-2008, 10:27 PM
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Honestly, I'm not even sure what to think anymore. It's just too hard to try and predict what the problem is.

I'm dying to see what Renney's solution to this is going to be. To put in Prucha probably

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12-12-2008, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Balej20 View Post
Here's my issue. All the players on the Rangers are NHL Professional Hockey players, correct? Well, right now a lot of them are playing below that standard. The only explanation for that is a lack of leadership. A lack of coaching. A lack of communication. A lack of a plan.

All those things this team lack come from solid leadership. It's not all about the letter on a shirt.
I don't think so. The team was playing great for the first 10 games of the season and since then they've completely collapsed. The fact that half our roster can't seem to get their act together is a problem, but it's one that lies with the individuals. The coaching didn't change. I can't imagine the plan was changed after we came out with our best start in team history either. Communication perhaps is an issue, but you can't force guys to communicate.

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12-12-2008, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
It's only my opinion, but I don't think leadership is the problem. Is Messier going to come in and fix the awful defensive coverage? Is he going to fix our PP? Does he have the magic line combinations that Renney can't find? I doubt it. There are too many things wrong with the way this team is playing to be solved by "more leadership" or signing any single player.
Yea but this team has shown spurts where they look dominant. For example the 4 straight goals they score. What happens next? Devils score 10 seconds later and the rangers are off the gas pedal? Sure there are other problems with this team. But this teams lack of passion and inspiration goes on drury.

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12-12-2008, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I'm going by his reputation. The fact is that he was so highly touted by his previous organization(s) as a leader and teammate that I don't need to see what's going on behind closed doors. You don't garner that kind of praise by just being a nice guy.

The difference between us is I am willing to give the guy more than 33 games to show me he is a leader. He has never been a fire and brimstone captain and he never will be. He leads by example and right now he's trying to do that. The points aren't coming but he certainly isn't giving up. He's still working and he's still hustling.

Like I've said already, there are too many things wrong with this team to fixate on leadership. We have a lot of players playing some very bad hockey. To blame that on anyone other than those players themselves doesn't make sense to me.
You're making this about one player. I'm trying very hard not to. All the problems you say this team has is all a result of a lack of leadership. As I stated earlier, all the players on this team are Professional Hockey Players. They all have the talent and ability. But right now they are playing at a level lower than that of a professional athlete. It's because there is no leadership in the room. No leadership on the ice. There is a severe lack of communication, a lack of a sound plan, a lack of someone standing up and saying, this is how things will be done.

It is indeed leadership that is the primary problem on this team, for leadership helps correct all the problems you list.

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12-12-2008, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by TheZherdev View Post
Yea but this team has shown spurts where they look dominant. For example the 4 straight goals they score. What happens next? Devils score 10 seconds later and the rangers are off the gas pedal? Sure there are other problems with this team. But this teams lack of passion and inspiration goes on drury.
This is one of my biggest issues with this team. At random moments during games, the Rangers look like the Soviet Red Army out there. Where does that come from? Why don't we see that play and passion all the time? Well heck, it's because we lack leadership, we lack a leader. And like I said, it starts with the coach.

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12-12-2008, 10:43 PM
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Just got back from the game and I have to say that I think one of the biggest problems with this team starts with the defense. I wish that Renney would send some sort of message by at least benching Kalinin or Redden for a game or two to show that subpar and un-inspired play won't be tolerated. I know that Renney would never do this so I guess it doesn't matter. It was so heart-breaking giving up those goals after we tied it.

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12-12-2008, 10:45 PM
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It seems like they only show passion and hustle when they are losing late in the game

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12-12-2008, 10:45 PM
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Maybe someday one of us will just come out and say hey, we're just not that good.

The coaches put the best lineup that is possible, the players play hard, and there is no problem in the lockerroom.

At the end of the day the players that we have on the 2008-2009 NY Rangers are just not as good as we thought they would be going into training camp.

Blame the GM? You could. I don't. Redden is better than Malik and Kalinen is a better player than Jason Strudwick. In hindsight? Prob should have nailed down Streit.

Naslund? Nice signing.

Avery bailing for more money and a limited NTC? Good move.

Not signing Shanny? Well I guess we all suck because we all were calling for a younger faster team.

Jagr? My gut was telling me he was respecting his families wishes for him to come home.

Paycheck doesn't hurt either.

Z trade?? I'd do it again and 100 times on Sunday.

So I'll say it. This team is just not that good. Horribly flawed and blatently mediocre as constructed. The blame goes everywhere.

Or maybe it goes nowhere. It is what it is. Management has put together a puzzle that doesn't fit well.

Looks like 27 or 28 other GMs have done similarly.


I'm ok though because it has only taken me 35 or so games to realize it.

We're just not that good.

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12-12-2008, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
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Drury still deserves the "C." Z and his not coming out for being one of the three stars bugs me. Mara takes too many penalties trying to be a tough guy and cost us the game at least twice now. Gomez is inconsistent. Dubinsky, i hope it's not a sophomore slump. If anyone, I would say Naslund could take it from Drury, but would be pissed if it did happen.
Are you referring to tonight?

If so, I've never seen an opposing player take a curtain call as one of the games 3 stars in NY, why would you expect him to do that in NJ?

PLus, they just lost a game that they climbed back from being down 5-1 and blew it. I'm not sure he gives a crap about being the games stars.

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12-12-2008, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by HAPPY HOUR View Post
Maybe someday one of us will just come out and say hey, we're just not that good.

The coaches put the best lineup that is possible, the players play hard, and there is no problem in the lockerroom.

At the end of the day the players that we have on the 2008-2009 NY Rangers are just not as good as we thought they would be going into training camp.

Blame the GM? You could. I don't. Redden is better than Malik and Kalinen is a better player than Jason Strudwick. In hindsight? Prob should have nailed down Streit.

Naslund? Nice signing.

Avery bailing for more money and a limited NTC? Good move.

Not signing Shanny? Well I guess we all suck because we all were calling for a younger faster team.

Jagr? My gut was telling me he was respecting his families wishes for him to come home. P

Paycheck doesn't hurt either.

Z trade?? I'd do it again and 100 times on Sunday.

So I'll say it. This team is just not that good. Horribly flawed and blatently mediocre as constructed. The blame goes everywhere.

Or maybe it goes nowhere. It is what it is. Management has put together a puzzle that doesn't fit well.

Looks like 27 or 28 other GMs have done similarly.


I'm ok though because it has only taken me 35 or so games to realize it.

Hey. We're just not that good.
Here, here

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12-12-2008, 10:52 PM
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I don't think so. The team was playing great for the first 10 games of the season and since then they've completely collapsed. The fact that half our roster can't seem to get their act together is a problem, but it's one that lies with the individuals. The coaching didn't change. I can't imagine the plan was changed after we came out with our best start in team history either. Communication perhaps is an issue, but you can't force guys to communicate.
What changed was the line up on an almost nightly basis.

Voros Dubi and Z was working to start the season, leave them alone. Let them carry the team and let the other high priced idiots find their game.

NOPE, Not Renney. Let's change everything so that we can get some production from these three D-bags and ruin ANY chemistry that may have been building.

He's not been able to duplicate the initial success the VDZ line had at the start and he continues to tinker.

Renney needs to go. Thanks for the PO's, but you are done.

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12-12-2008, 11:37 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
What changed was the line up on an almost nightly basis.

Voros Dubi and Z was working to start the season, leave them alone. Let them carry the team and let the other high priced idiots find their game.

NOPE, Not Renney. Let's change everything so that we can get some production from these three D-bags and ruin ANY chemistry that may have been building.

He's not been able to duplicate the initial success the VDZ line had at the start and he continues to tinker.

Renney needs to go. Thanks for the PO's, but you are done.
And Renney is a main part of the leadership that needs changing.

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12-12-2008, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by HAPPY HOUR View Post
Maybe someday one of us will just come out and say hey, we're just not that good.

The coaches put the best lineup that is possible, the players play hard, and there is no problem in the lockerroom.

At the end of the day the players that we have on the 2008-2009 NY Rangers are just not as good as we thought they would be going into training camp.

Blame the GM? You could. I don't. Redden is better than Malik and Kalinen is a better player than Jason Strudwick. In hindsight? Prob should have nailed down Streit.

Naslund? Nice signing.

Avery bailing for more money and a limited NTC? Good move.

Not signing Shanny? Well I guess we all suck because we all were calling for a younger faster team.

Jagr? My gut was telling me he was respecting his families wishes for him to come home.

Paycheck doesn't hurt either.

Z trade?? I'd do it again and 100 times on Sunday.

So I'll say it. This team is just not that good. Horribly flawed and blatently mediocre as constructed. The blame goes everywhere.

Or maybe it goes nowhere. It is what it is. Management has put together a puzzle that doesn't fit well.

Looks like 27 or 28 other GMs have done similarly.


I'm ok though because it has only taken me 35 or so games to realize it.

We're just not that good.
You see I have to disagree. When this team actually tries they look like a contender. I said it before in this thread, did the rangers look mediocre when they scored 4 goals in a row to tie the game? No this is simply a horrible case of inconsistency, and inconsistency is always correlated mostly with leadership. Explain to me how this team manages to play dominate sometimes and then just get **** on later. The puzzle worked the first 5 games. Renney just mixed around the pieces and his strategy and everything got screwed up.

I am going to something Edge has said a few times and i completely agree with him. Renney is someone you get as a coach before you win a championship, but not someone that can take you over that last hump. Hes done a great job developing some of our players, but as an in game coach he's pretty bad.

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12-12-2008, 11:55 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Are you referring to tonight?

If so, I've never seen an opposing player take a curtain call as one of the games 3 stars in NY, why would you expect him to do that in NJ?

PLus, they just lost a game that they climbed back from being down 5-1 and blew it. I'm not sure he gives a crap about being the games stars.
hes referring to the sens game a couple weeks back in which the rangers won in a shootout. Z wasn't having a good game so he was benched by renney and was clearly frustrated. but he got the game winning goal in the SO and named one of the 3 stars but didnt come out. He later said it was because he thought he didnt deserve it.

Yea a guy that actually cares about his play and is angry with himself when he doesnt play well... is a real lack of character and leadership. I swear even though most of us love Z, I just dont understand some of his detractors who call him a premodona and make up stories about it out of mid air.

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12-13-2008, 09:26 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by TheZherdev View Post
You see I have to disagree. When this team actually tries they look like a contender. I said it before in this thread, did the rangers look mediocre when they scored 4 goals in a row to tie the game? No this is simply a horrible case of inconsistency, and inconsistency is always correlated mostly with leadership. Explain to me how this team manages to play dominate sometimes and then just get **** on later. The puzzle worked the first 5 games. Renney just mixed around the pieces and his strategy and everything got screwed up.

I am going to something Edge has said a few times and i completely agree with him. Renney is someone you get as a coach before you win a championship, but not someone that can take you over that last hump. Hes done a great job developing some of our players, but as an in game coach he's pretty bad.
Agree with this.

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