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SI - D'Agostini vs Latendresse

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Old
12-13-2008, 11:03 AM
  #26
Kimota
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I think drafting Lats was the worse thing the Habs could ever have done. And I like the kid and i'm not faulting the fans, the press and so forth.

I don't know if people can remember this but when they got him in the second round it was as if they were giving candy to the fans because they hadn't picked a franco in the 1st round. In short it was the first time that Timmins got out of his plan to pick the best guy possible. And this will come bite him or the Habs in the butt. It's going to become like a damn curse. It will keep growing and growing and growing. As if destiny looked at Timmins and laughed.

It won't end well because Lats is not the Rocket. He's not the french hero Habs fans wants. He won't go to the net like a mad man with blood on his face like The Rocket was doing. And yea he's no power forward. That's not how he scored all his goals in junior. Lats was just a guy that scored goals who happened to be big. The closest Lats will ever become is another Ryder. A slower Ryder. And he's go ZERO mean streak. He doesn't have the drive the play like a maniac when he comes back after his coach scratched him. Then again maybe he's not capable to do it.

And see the main problem is that even he was not a Rocket or a Lafleur, if he was just a Claude Lemieux it would be fine. Cause Quebecers and Montrealers are mainly blue collars and they like to see hard work, fighters, they like to see people with drive. They can't stand slopiness, especialy when it comes to something as important to them as hockey and the Habs. Yet Lats is the quintessential representative of that. In fact when it will go further in his career they will realise that he represent everything that they hate!

But see here's the problem, as problematic as this could get, they will never able to trade him because he's french. And their lies the curse. I could see seasons after seasons of Carbo not playing him, people being mad at him for it. Then he will play badly in his return, fans will say Carbo didn't give him enough ice time. It will be this cicle of denial. And it will be annoying. Then a few years later the fans will realise that he sucks, they will drill him, boo and the kid will be destroyed.

I cannot see how this ending well.

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12-13-2008, 11:06 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Gui has the physical building block to be a PF (big, strong, heavy, hits hard and often, can throw a punch).

Everyone knows his skating sucks (to his credit he's worked on it but, being honest, it still sucks). Large turn radius, difficult acceleration... I don't know many forward non-enforcers in today's new NHL as slow as him. Michael Handzus? Trent Hunter? I can't think of anyone else.

He still has excellent hands but his confidence is shot. I'm convinced he'll start sinking them in around the net when he gets it back.

If meanness can be worked on, that's where i'd try to progress right now. If there's a behavioral psychologist on the board he could enlighten us. Watch A Clockwork Orange in a loop for 20 hours a day?
Trade him to the Leafs

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12-13-2008, 11:07 AM
  #28
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I found that Latendresse's performance vs Tampa was ****ing disgusting and disgraceful. How can a guy play so terribly after being a scratch for a bunch of games, watching Dagger come out of nowhere and rip it up in Gui's former spot, playing the way we've been hoping Lats would play for 3 years now.
I agree with, I was suprise to see the level of play of Latendresse... I wasn't expecting goals or anything, but a young kid ready to "eat the boards" in each shift...

What he did was just floating around, not knowing what to do... this guy is completely lost, just like O'Byrne, it's sad...

As for D'Agostini, wait another 10-20 games before commenting how great he is... but so far, I've been impressed.

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12-13-2008, 11:12 AM
  #29
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I don't know if people can remember this but when they got him in the second round it was as if they were giving candy to the fans because they hadn't picked a franco in the 1st round. In short it was the first time that Timmins got out of his plan to pick the best guy possible. And this will come bite him or the Habs in the butt. It's going to become like a damn curse. It will keep growing and growing and growing. As if destiny looked at Timmins and laughed.
What are you talking about, they moved up the draft to selected him, who was, btw, considered on many list a first round talent.

They needed size, offensive talent and he happens to be Quebecois... but he was, to Timmins view, the best player available... and he's still a great pick-up... not too many players drafted before or after him are better...

I'd still take him over Pouilot or Brule and they weren't selected in the 2nd round...

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12-13-2008, 11:13 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
The closest Lats will ever become is another Ryder. A slower Ryder.
Another Ryder? When did Latendresse score 30 goals? When did Latendresse fight in the corners and played with heart despite being drafted 8th round?!

Ryder is a hard working, tough, hearty hockey player. He may not have the scoring touch every night, but when he's on his game, he does magic.

It was a shame that Montreal didn't work with him like Claude Julien did. Oh well, now he's playing well in Boston.

Latendresse, on the other hand, is an overrated 2nd round pick. He needs to spend time in the AHL so that Montreal can determine if he can be made into an NHL caliber player. If not, they're wasting his and their time!

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12-13-2008, 11:15 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by grant1r View Post
Another Ryder? When did Latendresse score 30 goals? When did Latendresse fight in the corners and played with heart despite being drafted 8th round?!

Ryder is a hard working, tough, hearty hockey player. He may not have the scoring touch every night, but when he's on his game, he does magic.

It was a shame that Montreal didn't work with him like Claude Julien did. Oh well, now he's playing well in Boston.

Latendresse, on the other hand, is an overrated 2nd round pick. He needs to spend time in the AHL so that Montreal can determine if he can be made into an NHL caliber player. If not, they're wasting his and their time!
OMFG this is the weirdest post i have read in a while, and the Farthest from the truth.

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12-13-2008, 11:17 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Gui has the physical building block to be a PF (big, strong, heavy, hits hard and often, can throw a punch).

Everyone knows his skating sucks (to his credit he's worked on it but, being honest, it still sucks). Large turn radius, difficult acceleration... I don't know many forward non-enforcers in today's new NHL as slow as him. Michael Handzus? Trent Hunter? I can't think of anyone else.

He still has excellent hands but his confidence is shot. I'm convinced he'll start sinking them in around the net when he gets it back.

If meanness can be worked on, that's where i'd try to progress right now. If there's a behavioral psychologist on the board he could enlighten us. Watch A Clockwork Orange in a loop for 20 hours a day?
That's what I see since the beginning with him, if he could work on that, being way more aggressive and mean, his skating would be much less of an issue.

But, he's 21... and those damn rules, has to clear waivers before being sent to the AHL sucks, I'm sure that's where management would send him...

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12-13-2008, 11:17 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by grant1r View Post
Another Ryder? When did Latendresse score 30 goals? When did Latendresse fight in the corners and played with heart despite being drafted 8th round?!

Ryder is a hard working, tough, hearty hockey player. He may not have the scoring touch every night, but when he's on his game, he does magic.

It was a shame that Montreal didn't work with him like Claude Julien did. Oh well, now he's playing well in Boston.

Latendresse, on the other hand, is an overrated 2nd round pick. He needs to spend time in the AHL so that Montreal can determine if he can be made into an NHL caliber player. If not, they're wasting his and their time!
Where was Ryder at 21yo? In the ****ing ECHL...

When Lats will be 24-25yo, you'll be able to talk the way you did, for now, you have absolutely no clue

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12-13-2008, 11:19 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
What are you talking about, they moved up the draft to selected him, who was, btw, considered on many list a first round talent.

They needed size, offensive talent and he happens to be Quebecois... but he was, to Timmins view, the best player available... and he's still a great pick-up... not too many players drafted before or after him are better...

I'd still take him over Pouilot or Brule and they weren't selected in the 2nd round...
The guy he was compared to in scouting reports before the draft was Bobby Ryan. Also a proto-PF with troubled skating. Ryan hasn't progressed as fast as expected. I think it's much harder than before (with the rule changes) to become established with that type of game.

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12-13-2008, 12:44 PM
  #35
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Where was Ryder at 21yo? In the ****ing ECHL...

When Lats will be 24-25yo, you'll be able to talk the way you did, for now, you have absolutely no clue
The assumption being that you do?

You have a clue no more than the poster that you're insulting. his is an opinion like yours.

I'm sure he bases his opinion on what he has seen so far from the kid. Making excuses that he's only 21 only points to the fact that he shouldn't have been in the NHL; it does not point to the fact that he'll somehow develop into a superior hockey player.

From what I've seen of Lats, I agree with the poster you insulted. I'll be very surprised to see him surpass a Kilger or, by some fluke, Ryder.

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12-13-2008, 01:14 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
Where was Ryder at 21yo? In the ****ing ECHL...

When Lats will be 24-25yo, you'll be able to talk the way you did, for now, you have absolutely no clue
Excactly, Ryder was in the ECHL turning his play from under 1ppg to 1ppg or more. Then he did the same in the AHL then he went to the NHL.
It took him 2-3 years each level. If Guillaume Latendresse can't score 1ppg in the AHL (which we never will tell because we did a stupid move of jumping him to the NHL) then its very unlikely he won't be scoring 1ppg in the NHL.

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12-13-2008, 01:25 PM
  #37
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I think drafting Lats was the worse thing the Habs could ever have done. And I like the kid and i'm not faulting the fans, the press and so forth.

I don't know if people can remember this but when they got him in the second round it was as if they were giving candy to the fans because they hadn't picked a franco in the 1st round. In short it was the first time that Timmins got out of his plan to pick the best guy possible. And this will come bite him or the Habs in the butt. It's going to become like a damn curse. It will keep growing and growing and growing. As if destiny looked at Timmins and laughed.

It won't end well because Lats is not the Rocket. He's not the french hero Habs fans wants. He won't go to the net like a mad man with blood on his face like The Rocket was doing. And yea he's no power forward. That's not how he scored all his goals in junior. Lats was just a guy that scored goals who happened to be big. The closest Lats will ever become is another Ryder. A slower Ryder. And he's go ZERO mean streak. He doesn't have the drive the play like a maniac when he comes back after his coach scratched him. Then again maybe he's not capable to do it.

And see the main problem is that even he was not a Rocket or a Lafleur, if he was just a Claude Lemieux it would be fine. Cause Quebecers and Montrealers are mainly blue collars and they like to see hard work, fighters, they like to see people with drive. They can't stand slopiness, especialy when it comes to something as important to them as hockey and the Habs. Yet Lats is the quintessential representative of that. In fact when it will go further in his career they will realise that he represent everything that they hate!

But see here's the problem, as problematic as this could get, they will never able to trade him because he's french. And their lies the curse. I could see seasons after seasons of Carbo not playing him, people being mad at him for it. Then he will play badly in his return, fans will say Carbo didn't give him enough ice time. It will be this cicle of denial. And it will be annoying. Then a few years later the fans will realise that he sucks, they will drill him, boo and the kid will be destroyed.

I cannot see how this ending well.
I agreed. The Lats fanboys should stop drinking the Lats kool-aid. Only a matter of time before he becomes a bust like 1 or 2 more seasons of his current play. Oh and Ryder was a lot better than that loser.

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12-13-2008, 01:27 PM
  #38
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The assumption being that you do?

You have a clue no more than the poster that you're insulting. his is an opinion like yours.

I'm sure he bases his opinion on what he has seen so far from the kid. Making excuses that he's only 21 only points to the fact that he shouldn't have been in the NHL; it does not point to the fact that he'll somehow develop into a superior hockey player.

From what I've seen of Lats, I agree with the poster you insulted. I'll be very surprised to see him surpass a Kilger or, by some fluke, Ryder.
I never compare Latendresse to any established player because I understand that we have no clue...

I didn't make an assumption saying Latendresse is already a bust and won't have an nhl career...

He's 21yo and at that age most players are still in the AHL, so it's pretty hard to evaluate his future.

I wonder what you would have said about Ryder when he was 21yo playing in the ECHL...

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12-13-2008, 01:30 PM
  #39
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OMFG this is the weirdest post i have read in a while, and the Farthest from the truth.
Too bad you watch hockey games from the newspaper. Watch a couple of hockey games and you ll find out.

Ryder is back on pace (55point season) with the Bruins, unlike Guillaume Latendresse, who can't even keep up with a 30 point season.

http://www.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?h...45&event=FLA74

Enjoy

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12-13-2008, 01:32 PM
  #40
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And see the main problem is that even he was not a Rocket or a Lafleur, if he was just a Claude Lemieux it would be fine. Cause Quebecers and Montrealers are mainly blue collars and they like to see hard work, fighters, they like to see people with drive.
well said. it's exactly why i've been on Lats' case for over a year now. It pisses me off to no end to see a guy playing for the Habs and he doesn't seem to even have any passion on the ice.

I'm fine with losing/not producing when the effort is there. Look at Kostopoulos, the guy has NO hands or talent whatsoever but boy do I like how he plays and he could get a spot on my team any day.

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12-13-2008, 01:36 PM
  #41
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I agreed. The Lats fanboys should stop drinking the Lats kool-aid. Only a matter of time before he becomes a bust like 1 or 2 more seasons of his current play. Oh and Ryder was a lot better than that loser.
Oh.... now you got a crystal ball... Thats awesome... Now, you should have been the Hawks or the Sharks GM. You would have traded the spare part in Clowe or in Versteeg away... these busts

Again, the key with a lot of youngers players is patience and not overreacting

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12-13-2008, 01:40 PM
  #42
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Pretty much perfectly sums up the play and careers of both. I still hope for the day the Tenderness can become the power forward we have so long been waiting for, but I am starting to look more toward Max Pac for that now.

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12-13-2008, 01:42 PM
  #43
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From what I've seen of Lats, I agree with the poster you insulted. I'll be very surprised to see him surpass a Kilger or, by some fluke, Ryder.
Kilger was Drafted by Anaheim in 1995 (1/4). (WOW)
He plays a very phisical game and his career high for goals is 17 when he was 30 years old.
I really can't see much similarities between them.
I find if Latendress played as hard as a Kilger type player this thread wouldn't exsist.

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12-13-2008, 01:51 PM
  #44
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Kilger was Drafted by Anaheim in 1995 (1/4). (WOW)
He plays a very phisical game and his career high for goals is 17 when he was 30 years old.
I really can't see much similarities between them.
I find if Latendress played as hard as a Kilger type player this thread wouldn't exsist.
Can't see similarities either, Kilger was a very good skater for his size, was a center, and he had absolutely NO hockey sense or vision...

BUT I could see similarities in that Lats won't ever attain his supposed potential, cause he was rushed...

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12-13-2008, 01:55 PM
  #45
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Send Latendresse down to the AHL. He can be sent down no problem for what is it, 15 games(?), Under the context of a conditioning stint. He needs to get his confidence back because right now I bet he feels trapped with no way out of his current predicament and he will be dealt by the end of the season if he doesn't start contributing. The article made a very good point and that is he hasn't improved a bit since he came in at 18, this is hella worrisome.

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12-13-2008, 01:58 PM
  #46
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I wish people would stop comparing Latendresse to Clowe. Why don't we compare him to Patrick Sharp while we're at it. How about Todd Bertuzzi. How about Eric Lindros or John Leclair.

Usually when a prospect comes to camp or to the NHL after an injury, the staff and fans judge his performance based on his performance, not on the language he speaks.

That being said. If a hockey player cannot produce or cannot contribute in someway to the team that would make it worthwhile to keep that particular player in any form. Why do they have to be patient when they have the AHL there waiting for him or a trade?

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12-13-2008, 01:59 PM
  #47
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I wish people would stop comparing Latendresse to Clowe. Why don't we compare him to Patrick Sharp while we're at it. How about Todd Bertuzzi. How about Eric Lindros or John Leclair.

Usually when a prospect comes to camp or to the NHL after an injury, the staff and fans judge his performance based on his performance, not on the language he speaks.

That being said. If a hockey player cannot produce or cannot contribute in someway to the team that would make it worthwhile to keep that particular player in any form. Why do they have to be patient when they have the AHL there waiting for him or a trade?
Its the most valid comparison... Why should we stop?

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12-13-2008, 02:05 PM
  #48
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I wish people would stop comparing Latendresse to Clowe. Why don't we compare him to Patrick Sharp while we're at it. How about Todd Bertuzzi. How about Eric Lindros or John Leclair.

Usually when a prospect comes to camp or to the NHL after an injury, the staff and fans judge his performance based on his performance, not on the language he speaks.

That being said. If a hockey player cannot produce or cannot contribute in someway to the team that would make it worthwhile to keep that particular player in any form. Why do they have to be patient when they have the AHL there waiting for him or a trade?
Now, you reveal your true colors...

Why is it that people come up with this lame argument when none of his "supporter" even mention this...

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12-13-2008, 02:09 PM
  #49
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I never compare Latendresse to any established player because I understand that we have no clue...

I didn't make an assumption saying Latendresse is already a bust and won't have an nhl career...

He's 21yo and at that age most players are still in the AHL, so it's pretty hard to evaluate his future.

I wonder what you would have said about Ryder when he was 21yo playing in the ECHL...

Stop with the Ryder comments. You know absolutely nothing about Ryder. Go take a look at his junior stats. Ryder's record completely outclasses Lats and he didn't have Brassard to feed him. Ryder's skating is not the greatest but it's better than Lats. His shot is better than Lats. He plays with more intensity than Lats ever will. The only thing Lats has over Ryder is his size and we know to what advantage Lats uses it. None.

I wonder when Lats teamed up with Brassard because he went from 24 to 29 to 43. You look at Ryder and he went from 34 to 44 to 50 goals. Ryder has scored at every level. He had one bad year here and we shipped him off. He's on pace to hit 30 this year. What is Lats on pace to hit?

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12-13-2008, 02:10 PM
  #50
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The guy he was compared to in scouting reports before the draft was Bobby Ryan. Also a proto-PF with troubled skating. Ryan hasn't progressed as fast as expected. I think it's much harder than before (with the rule changes) to become established with that type of game.
Bobby Ryan was 2nd overall and he only made the NHL this year due to injuries and they kept him up, only to play him limited minutes on the 4th line. We should be very happy with Gui.

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