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OT: Sundin (UPDATE: signs w/Vancouver)

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Old
12-12-2008, 07:10 PM
  #101
Opus
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
You think it is about championship? You really see NYR as a contender? Right now, for the past last month?

The only good thing they have is PK. Everything else is pretty much horrible. Of course Henrick keeps them in every game.


Thats with out injuries. Ok, Gomez missed 4-5 games. Big deal. Redden missed one game? Thats about it.
I wouldn't discount the Rangers. They have a pretty good team.

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12-12-2008, 07:13 PM
  #102
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How is Vancouver closer to a championship than the Rangers? If Mats comes back, it's only for a chance to get his name on the Cup.

Ok and this is my opinion. Last year the only reason Van missed playoffs because of injuries. At some point they were missing 4 top 4 d-men

Excellent on D, they can play with out Luongo, they score goals, demitra and Wellwood (suprised) produce 2ndory scoring, Kesler looks excellent on 3rd line.

What do Rangers have? Goalie? Zherdev (plays no D) and Naslund. Is that it?

Devils scored again.

Edit: and again.

Rangers owned by Devils in this one.

Edit: another goal by Devils Zubrus.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 12-12-2008 at 07:27 PM.
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Old
12-12-2008, 08:48 PM
  #103
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No, I dont want Sundin. Waste of money and waste of Lupul or Knuble if we trade to get him for 1 season.

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12-12-2008, 08:54 PM
  #104
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I wouldn't discount the Rangers. They have a pretty good team.
They have an awesome goalie and otherwise mediocre team. They are always in first early in the season because they play a bunch of games early in the season due to arena congestion at the Garden.

Rangers are not going to be a factor in the divisional race in March/April, IMO.

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12-12-2008, 10:41 PM
  #105
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Rangers are not going to be a factor in the divisional race in March/April, IMO.
Wow, that's brazen.

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Old
12-12-2008, 10:55 PM
  #106
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They have an awesome goalie and otherwise mediocre team. They are always in first early in the season because they play a bunch of games early in the season due to arena congestion at the Garden.

Rangers are not going to be a factor in the divisional race in March/April, IMO.
Wouldn't be so sure. They're in 1st right now with a number of proven players significantly under performing. Those things have a way of working themselves out.

I think the Pens ultimately pass everyone when they get their D back, but Rangers are probably the 2nd best team in the division on paper.

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12-12-2008, 11:00 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
How is Vancouver closer to a championship than the Rangers? If Mats comes back, it's only for a chance to get his name on the Cup.
then he'd better sign with Detroit

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Old
12-13-2008, 04:45 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Wouldn't be so sure. They're in 1st right now with a number of proven players significantly under performing. Those things have a way of working themselves out.

I think the Pens ultimately pass everyone when they get their D back, but Rangers are probably the 2nd best team in the division on paper.
They are in first right now because they have played 3-4 more games than the rest of the division. They are the 4th best team in this division unless Henrik is on fire.

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Old
12-13-2008, 04:57 PM
  #109
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They are in first right now because they have played 3-4 more games than the rest of the division. They are the 4th best team in this division unless Henrik is on fire.
People said the same crap last year.

Beat us in the standings.

They have players who aren't playing up to their level--actually, they had the same thing last year--and those things have a way of turning around.

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Old
12-13-2008, 05:07 PM
  #110
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People said the same crap last year.

Beat us in the standings.

They have players who aren't playing up to their level--actually, they had the same thing last year--and those things have a way of turning around.
They were a better team last year then they are this year. They lost 3 of their top 5 scorers from last years team in Jagr, Shanahan, and Straka. They also lost Avery, who was a big part of their success last year and posted 33 points in 57 games for them.

They replaced some of the scoring with Naslund and Zherdev, but made a horrific decision in putting even more money in the defense and giving a HUGE contract to an average 2nd pairing defenseman.

The Rangers got off to a great start this year. I happen to think that had quite a bit to do with them playing so many games early in the season and getting up to speed quicker then the teams that they were facing as a result of having played more often then them (see the Flyers opener for a perfect example).

As of late, they've really come back to earth. Their trapping system makes it even more difficult for their average group of forwards to score and fails to take advantage of their deep defense and strong goaltending.

I see them as a 4th place team and a borderline playoff team in the end, both on paper and on the ice.

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Old
12-13-2008, 05:16 PM
  #111
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Trapping team with a really good goalie...yeah, they never go anywhere.

Actually, they tend to get better as the season goes along, because their defensive system gets more cohesive (as does everyone else's). Rangers aren't world beaters, not arguing that. They're basically the exact opposite of us. They'll play good D, but struggle to score some...we'll score a ton, but struggle to play good D.

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12-13-2008, 05:22 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Trapping team with a really good goalie...yeah, they never go anywhere.

Actually, they tend to get better as the season goes along, because their defensive system gets more cohesive (as does everyone else's). Rangers aren't world beaters, not arguing that. They're basically the exact opposite of us. They'll play good D, but struggle to score some...we'll score a ton, but struggle to play good D.
Where have the trapping teams gone in the last couple of seasons?

The Rangers aren't a very good team. It's really that simple.

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Old
12-13-2008, 06:04 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Trapping team with a really good goalie...yeah, they never go anywhere.

Actually, they tend to get better as the season goes along, because their defensive system gets more cohesive (as does everyone else's). Rangers aren't world beaters, not arguing that. They're basically the exact opposite of us. They'll play good D, but struggle to score some...we'll score a ton, but struggle to play good D.
I do not think so. Their d-sive core did not change with exception of Redden. It is all about Henrik and how he plays. If he stops 2 on 1 and 3 on 2and 1 on 1 Rangers look good if he doesn't they look bad.

Recently I liked how Flyers D plays. If d-men is under pressure they do not just throw puck out of the zone, Flyers pass the puck and keep possession trying to generate attack. Red Wings team always did that. We still make mistakes but nowhere near as bad as at the beginning of the season. Passing and puck possesion are the key and I see a turn around. I expect Alberts and Kukkonen and even Sbisa to throw the puck out but the rest of the D must pass and create counterattack.

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Old
12-13-2008, 08:26 PM
  #114
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CBC Hotstove: Flyers pressing hard for Sundin

Al Strachan and Pierre Le Brun said "Flyers are one of the teams pressing hard for Sundin" and had a nice discussion about it. Then they started talking about Briere and not being healthy lately. I'm glad we're still in the race, Sunny D could be a huge component down the stretch for this team.

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Old
12-13-2008, 08:40 PM
  #115
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Huge component for what? Who is he going to play with? Asham and Nodl?

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Old
12-13-2008, 08:50 PM
  #116
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I still don't want him... He's great, sure, but there's no real fit for him on this team.

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12-13-2008, 08:51 PM
  #117
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Id take him if his cap hit is 500k. But not if we have to trade someone for him.

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12-13-2008, 08:58 PM
  #118
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If we can move Lupul and Jones for picks sign Sundin.

If we can move Knuble and Jones for picks sign Sundin

If we can move Briere (impossible) and Jones for picks sign Sundin.

If we can sign him to 500K and bonus (I am not sure how it works this year cap or next year) sign Sundin

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12-13-2008, 09:04 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Where have the trapping teams gone in the last couple of seasons?

The Rangers aren't a very good team. It's really that simple.
Did you not notice the Penguins trapping to holy hell down the stretch last year?

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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
I do not think so. Their d-sive core did not change with exception of Redden. It is all about Henrik and how he plays. If he stops 2 on 1 and 3 on 2and 1 on 1 Rangers look good if he doesn't they look bad.

Recently I liked how Flyers D plays. If d-men is under pressure they do not just throw puck out of the zone, Flyers pass the puck and keep possession trying to generate attack. Red Wings team always did that. We still make mistakes but nowhere near as bad as at the beginning of the season. Passing and puck possesion are the key and I see a turn around. I expect Alberts and Kukkonen and even Sbisa to throw the puck out but the rest of the D must pass and create counterattack.
They added Redden and Kalinin, Staal and Girardi are another year older...defense should be a bit better than last year. They also have played team defense up there the last couple years.

The team has been playing pretty well of late.


Last edited by GKJ: 12-13-2008 at 10:25 PM.
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Old
12-13-2008, 09:11 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Huge component for what? Who is he going to play with? Asham and Nodl?
gagne-richards-hartnell
upshall-carter-lupul
knuble-sundin-briere
asham-metro-cote

????

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Old
12-13-2008, 09:14 PM
  #121
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Sundin wants $5.5M prorated. He's not going to be a Flyer.

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Old
12-13-2008, 09:15 PM
  #122
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Did you not notice the Penguins trapping to holy hell down the stretch last year?
Did you not notice the Penguins have offensive talent. The Rangers are one of the 5 worst offenses in the East.

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12-13-2008, 09:15 PM
  #123
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They added Redden and Kalinin, Staal and Girardi are another year older...defense should be a bit better than last year. They also have played team defense up there the last couple years.

The team has been playing pretty well of late.
Jester please... That team reminds me of Sabres with Hasek (in 1999 when they went against Dallas in SC finals) with much, much, MUCH less scoring and that D ain't that good.

Henrik is.

8 SO, won 7. By old standards that’s 7 points not 14. They would be fighting to make top 8 right now. Do the math.

2.4 GF, 2.4 GA

Gets scored at will in SH situations. Crappy on PP, a little better 5 on 5, very good on PK. Give up 3-4 odd man rushes per game if not more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Sundin wants $5.5M prorated. He's not going to be a Flyer.
I wonder how Sundin becomes NY Ranger? Ok, Rozie moved? Prucha waived? Is that it? Some clown will step up from AHL (all of them are not ready).


Last edited by Kaktus*: 12-13-2008 at 09:22 PM.
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Old
12-13-2008, 09:48 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Sundin wants $5.5M prorated. He's not going to be a Flyer.
Jones, Alberts, Knuble traded- thats 6.75 mil
Parent plays D- thats 5.9 mil
sign sundin for 5.5 have .4 mil left


Not saying I want that to happen, just thinking out loud

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Old
12-13-2008, 10:00 PM
  #125
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Did you not notice the Penguins have offensive talent. The Rangers are one of the 5 worst offenses in the East.
I'm sorry, you asked when the last time a team that traps has done anything. Now you want caveats to that query?

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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Jester please... That team reminds me of Sabres with Hasek (in 1999 when they went against Dallas in SC finals) with much, much, MUCH less scoring and that D ain't that good.

Henrik is.

8 SO, won 7. By old standards thatís 7 points not 14. They would be fighting to make top 8 right now. Do the math.

2.4 GF, 2.4 GA

Gets scored at will in SH situations. Crappy on PP, a little better 5 on 5, very good on PK. Give up 3-4 odd man rushes per game if not more.
That's the name of the regular season now...you get those points and they count the same as any other way to get wins.

The beginning of the season--every year--favors offensive teams. The end of the season--every year--favors defensive teams. The game tightens up and the teams that play smarter team-hockey start to have better results.

All that being said, I'm not saying the Rangers are some juggernaut, but dismissing them is silly. In the regular season you don't need to be great in all phases of the game. But if you can play good D, which they've proven capable of doing the last couple of years, and have a good goalie you can pick up points and make the playoffs.

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