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"We can teach defense, we can't teach scoring".

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Old
12-14-2008, 11:54 AM
  #26
Canadian_Brewtality
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i think a player should go out and say

"well you cant teach ex-players how to coach"

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Old
12-14-2008, 11:56 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I think it's part of the tasks of a coach to teach his players things they don't do. Driving the net is one of them.
It's his job as well to find some stability on PP and stop trying new lines every damn PP.
Every team knows our players are going to try to control the puck into the zone, not dump it in. Usually, Kovalev or Markov will do that. If they do a dump in, it's a 1 man forecheck that is easily defendable. Putting new players every time certainly won't help our players become more creative.

Stability comes before Chemistry. To Carbo it seems to be the other way around.


That being said, I still think we played a good game yesterday. Especially considering Koivu is out and Plek is really playing badly, so that gives us Lang and Lapierre as centers.
Missing Komi..Dandy..Higgins isn't helping either.
Right. Carbo doesn't tell them they should drive to the net. How ignorant a statement is that? Trouble is, when you have too many chicken-bleep wimps on the team that are scared to go into the pain areas, not much you can do. I can ask a little girl to take some punishment and go into the scoring sweet spots...but I can't force her too. I think this is Carbos dilemma. That's why he uses his only recourse....play the players that are willing to do so, and that are creating chances because of it. IE, the 4th liners. Our group of little Easter Block players are chicken-bleeps. They think the NHL game can be mastered by just skating in circles around the perimeter. What I'm seeing is half a team of Sergei Samsonovs.


Last edited by LesCanadiens: 12-14-2008 at 12:02 PM.
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Old
12-14-2008, 11:57 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Andrei Kostopolous View Post
unfortunately you can't teach guts and determination for the twits to stand in front of the net.

of the top six forwards, Koivu oddly is the one who spends most of his time there.
It appears Guy is sending that message to his players by sending out his grinders on the PP to muck it up. I like that, Guy has balls to send his team and BG a message at the same time.

I don't think we should knock Guy for this, but applaud him.

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Old
12-14-2008, 12:06 PM
  #29
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Never have i seen a coach who whines so much in the media and do nothing to fix his team. He even comes out and admit he doesnt know why his team suck. If he was the coach of any other team, he would have been canned a long time ago. But the Habs organization live on mediocrity with a mentality on a country club, hiring friends who have once played for the habs expecting them to do good when they clearly dont have the experience or the qualities for that position.

Its has been going on for 15 years now and will probably go on for another 10+ years before something is changed. This organization lives too much on the past, the past glory of our great history without looking at the present or the future. They dont understand that our players dont give a damn about it, they always lose when the habs honor the greats from the past. They fail to teach the guys what is means to be habs, the pride and the rich history behind. It is like a company that hires a new employee and leaves him out on his own. That is why our team and organization sucks, no team spirit from the front office to the players, just a sad bunch of guys forced to be together that gives the illusion that they are bounded when clearly they dont give a damn about each other.

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Old
12-14-2008, 12:12 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs8517 View Post
Never have i seen a coach who whines so much in the media and do nothing to fix his team. He even comes out and admit he doesnt know why his team suck. If he was the coach of any other team, he would have been canned a long time ago. But the Habs organization live on mediocrity with a mentality on a country club, hiring friends who have once played for the habs expecting them to do good when they clearly dont have the experience or the qualities for that position.

Its has been going on for 15 years now and will probably go on for another 10+ years before something is changed. This organization lives too much on the past, the past glory of our great history without looking at the present or the future. They dont understand that our players dont give a damn about it, they always lose when the habs honor the greats from the past. They fail to teach the guys what is means to be habs, the pride and the rich history behind. It is like a company that hires a new employee and leaves him out on his own. That is why our team and organization sucks, no team spirit from the front office to the players, just a sad bunch of guys forced to be together that gives the illusion that they are bounded when clearly they dont give a damn about each other.

I agree with your post, but just one thing that i would try, yes he is an ex Hab, but i would put Roy behind the bench. I can garantee you there would be no ass dragging with this team, and you can be sure we would have a team that resembles that of the Ruins team toughness with a plan !!

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Old
12-14-2008, 12:12 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs8517 View Post
Never have i seen a coach who whines so much in the media and do nothing to fix his team. He even comes out and admit he doesnt know why his team suck. If he was the coach of any other team, he would have been canned a long time ago. But the Habs organization live on mediocrity with a mentality on a country club, hiring friends who have once played for the habs expecting them to do good when they clearly dont have the experience or the qualities for that position.

Its has been going on for 15 years now and will probably go on for another 10+ years before something is changed. This organization lives too much on the past, the past glory of our great history without looking at the present or the future. They dont understand that our players dont give a damn about it, they always lose when the habs honor the greats from the past. They fail to teach the guys what is means to be habs, the pride and the rich history behind. It is like a company that hires a new employee and leaves him out on his own. That is why our team and organization sucks, no team spirit from the front office to the players, just a sad bunch of guys forced to be together that gives the illusion that they are bounded when clearly they dont give a damn about each other.
Most clueless post..............almost ever. How ungrateful can you be? We have been climbing every year, and last year culminating to a Conference champion. So, tell me.....how do you explain that? It's a fact, not the BS posted above.

Not much a coach can do when all his scorers hit posts, fan on pucks and miss open nets. Carbo has done a great job teaching defense and positioning and employing a solid system. Our team is well coached...the players have to start doing their part.

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Old
12-14-2008, 12:14 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by LesCanadiens View Post
Most clueless post..............almost ever. How ungrateful can you be? We have been climbing every year, and last year culminating to a Conference champion. So, tell me.....how do you explain that? It's a fact, not the BS posted above.

Not much a coach can do when all his scorers hit posts, fan on pucks and miss open nets. Carbo has done a great job teaching defense and positioning and employing a solid system. Our team is well coached...the players have to start doing their part.

you are way wrong, Carbs cant motivate his players and has absolutely NO communication skills !

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Old
12-14-2008, 12:16 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by HotHabsFan View Post
you are way wrong, Carbs cant motivate his players and has absolutely NO communication skills !
And you know this how? It's just conjecture. You're stating it as fact. His communication and motivation skills seemed to be good enough for a Eastern Conference championship last year......now that is a fact.

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Old
12-14-2008, 12:25 PM
  #34
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because the player came out and said it last year and he was questioned here by the french media about it,dont be so pompus. i was stating what i heard living here, i know that you dont get ckac in the Okanaugan.

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Old
12-14-2008, 12:32 PM
  #35
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I just realized your Avatar is E.T.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ET_(atari_2600)
The best game ever.

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Originally Posted by LesCanadiens View Post
Just slightly out of context...what he said is that we've been getting piles of chances...and our players aren't burying them. How do you teach a player not to hit the post or fan on the puck? You can't. How do you go up to Kovalev and say..."Kovy, gonna teach you a few things about scoring".

Funny how all the Carbo haters are so quick to pick at anything (even if it's out of context, like a cheap reporter) they can. Really, I think Carbo knows more about this game than any of us armchair quarterbacks.
I'm not a Carboneau hater, I just found what he said to be kind of weird. By saying that he can not teach scoring, he's basically putting all the blame on the players, because they can't bury their chances, which is their own fault, and has nothing to do with the way they're being instructed to play.

I'd be curious to see how the team would react with a different coach behind the bench. It could be that Carboneau is not that good of a motivator, but it could also be that the players that compose this team have very little heart, and that the coach has nothing to do with their poor performance.

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Old
12-14-2008, 12:34 PM
  #36
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Carbo has no communication skills, he said it himself.
He doesnt talk to his players, all the guys benched over the past 3 years have said they have no idea why they got benched and the reasons behind them. All he says is that my door is always open ... No matter how much they sucked or deserved of getting benched, they still have a right to know the reasons or at the very least have a discussion with the coach. This is like a boss punished his employee without telling him why, which most often leads to the employee giving his resignation.

Last year, he was lucky Kovalev decided to play his best hockey and have the other teams of the NHL underestimate the Habs.


Last edited by Habs8517: 12-14-2008 at 01:07 PM.
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Old
12-14-2008, 12:36 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by snakeye View Post
Says Carboneau in post game interview.

Really? Can't teach scoring? Maybe that's the problem

D'agostini.


He was drafted 'cause he finds ways to score...

He's learned defence in Hamilton and is now a complete player



Too bad he's the only one who knows how to score


(I'm talking to YOU Lang!!)

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Old
12-14-2008, 12:40 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Pr3Va1L View Post
D'agostini.


He was drafted 'cause he finds ways to score...

He's learned defence in Hamilton and is now a complete player



Too bad he's the only one who knows how to score


(I'm talking to YOU Lang!!)
Lang LMAO, are you kidding me, so Kovy gets another free ride. ridiculous.

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Old
12-14-2008, 12:53 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by HotHabsFan View Post
because the player came out and said it last year and he was questioned here by the french media about it,dont be so pompus. i was stating what i heard living here, i know that you dont get ckac in the Okanaugan.
Unless the Okanagan in situated off the planet earth, anyone can listen to CKAC.

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Old
12-14-2008, 12:56 PM
  #40
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Yeah, I picked up on that one too, but a few seconds later I thought that it was just poor English, and what he meant was that you can't teach people how to bury their chances ( it is a natural segue from what he had just been talking about).

I don't think he meant that offense is unteachable; that would be too moronic for a coach to say.
Offense *is* unteachable, and the notion that you can't teach offense but you can teach defense is widely used by 100's of coaches. This is hardly Carbonneau's philosophy. This is an age-old hockey adage.

You don't draft a big, tough, grinder and say, "We'll teach him how to have a great scoring touch."

But you can draft a talented sniper that doesn't have the faintest idea how to play in his own zone and say "we can teach him how to be defensively responsible."

To be an offensive player you need to have God-given talent, hockey sense, vision, a good shot or good moves. These things are intangibles.

To be a good defensive player you need to have discipline, commitment and the ability to follow the team's system closely.

To try and turn this into a "Carbonneau's an idiot" thread just shows the pathetic agenda that a lot of posters here have.

What's next, call him out for saying he wants the guys to give "110"%" because it's a mathematical impossibility? It's not Carbo's fault you guys haven't heard an expression that's been around hockey about as long as the slapshot has.

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Old
12-14-2008, 01:00 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by LesCanadiens View Post
Right. Carbo doesn't tell them they should drive to the net. How ignorant a statement is that? Trouble is, when you have too many chicken-bleep wimps on the team that are scared to go into the pain areas, not much you can do. I can ask a little girl to take some punishment and go into the scoring sweet spots...but I can't force her too. I think this is Carbos dilemma. That's why he uses his only recourse....play the players that are willing to do so, and that are creating chances because of it. IE, the 4th liners. Our group of little Easter Block players are chicken-bleeps. They think the NHL game can be mastered by just skating in circles around the perimeter. What I'm seeing is half a team of Sergei Samsonovs.
Sure, let's put all the blame on our players. They're all little girls that are scared to break a nail.
I'll agree that the players are the ones that will have to go to net, if they don't Carbo can't jump on the ice to place them there.

That being said, he's the COACH. What is he there for if he can't even coach his players??..what is he there for if the players don't even follow his demands??..What is he doing??..
Sure, we can blame the players for lacking intensity and grit, but we can also question the coach when he says things like ''it goes in one ear and comes out the other'' or ''I tell them, but they don't listen'', etc... Choose the quote you want, Carbo said a million of them to the media since the beginning of the season.

The players hold their share of responsibilities, but so does the coach. All of them are part of this team, they're all in the same boat.
If it's 2-3 bad games, here and there, fine it's the players fault not sticking to the game plan or making mistakes. The team is doing generally well, so no big changes, if any, are needed.
But during a slump, that's when a coach is tested because he'll have to do new things.

We're still doing well and I think we played good yesterday considering we're missing 4regulars, it's unfortunate we lost that way but i'm not worried at all.

I just feel Carbo whines a lot about his players. That's not good at all.


Last edited by Kriss E: 12-14-2008 at 01:07 PM.
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Old
12-14-2008, 01:04 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Sure, let's put all the blame on our players. They're all little girls that are scared to break a nail.
I'll agree that the players are the ones that will have to go to net, if they don't Carbo can't jump on the ice to place them there.

That being said, he's the COACH. What is he there for if he can't even coach his players??..what is he there for if the players don't even follow his demands??..What is he doing??..
Sure, we can blame the players for lacking intensity and grit, but we can also question the coach when he says things like ''it goes in one ear and comes out the other'' or ''I tell them, but they don't listen'', etc... Choose the quote you want, Carbo said a million of them to the media since the beginning of the season.

The players hold their share of responsibilities, but so does the coach. All of them are part of this team, they're all in the same boat.
If it's 2-3 bad games, here and there, fine it's the players fault not sticking to the game plan or making mistakes. The team is doing generally well, so no big changes, if any, are needed.
But during a slump, that's when a coach is tested because he'll have to do new things.

We're still doing well and I think we played good yesterday considering we're missing 4regulars, it's unfortunate we lost that way but i'm not worried at all.

yeah but he's not that bad, i mean at least he doesn't put his fourth line on the PP and in very important last moments of the games.....oh wait..

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Old
12-14-2008, 01:10 PM
  #43
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unfortunately you can't teach heart and determination either
Amen brother! Serge Savard said his teams of the 70s absolutely hated to lose - I doubt this team has that same hatred.

You can't teach offense but there are coaches out there that always seem to get their offensive stars to shine - Laviolette and Tortorella to name 2. What are the chances of hiring a couple of guys like them to draw up a few plays?

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12-14-2008, 01:13 PM
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I think our defense has been great. Especially without Komi. We are in every game really.

I agree with Carbo. Time to get some top line offensive talent in here. We have a glut of decent forwards. Time to shine Gainey. Make it happen.

Fact is we just don't have top line offensive players on this team the likes of a Datysuk, Zetterberg, Thornton, Kovalchuk, Hossa, Crosby, Malkin, Ovyechkin, etc...) And none of our young guys are ever going to be top tier talents like that.

Getting an offensive superstar will do wonders for players like A Kost, Lats, etc. who can thrive with more space on the ice.

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12-14-2008, 01:26 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by snakeye View Post
Says Carboneau in post game interview.

Really? Can't teach scoring? Maybe that's the problem
I don't know why some are so up and arms about this as it's the truth. If you could teach scoring, everyone would be a 50 goals scorer! It takes talent and a nose for the net to score goals. Proof? Goals' scorers find holes when they shoot. Others hit the goalie, the post or miss the net. Higgins is probably the best example of a non-goals' scorer.

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unfortunately you can't teach heart and determination either
I agree with that as well. We need a player (or players) who have both goals' scoring ability and grit!

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12-14-2008, 01:29 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
I think our defense has been great. Especially without Komi. We are in every game really.

I agree with Carbo. Time to get some top line offensive talent in here. We have a glut of decent forwards. Time to shine Gainey. Make it happen.

Fact is we just don't have top line offensive players on this team the likes of a Datysuk, Zetterberg, Thornton, Kovalchuk, Hossa, Crosby, Malkin, Ovyechkin, etc...) And none of our young guys are ever going to be top tier talents like that.

Getting an offensive superstar will do wonders for players like A Kost, Lats, etc. who can thrive with more space on the ice.
Getting an offensive superstar doesn't mean money in the bank.
TB has 2 superstars, 3 before and look where they've been these past years. Stamkos is not doing as well as anticipated either.

Atlanta had Hossa, Savard and Kovalchuk, it never helped them.
Ottawa with Alfie, Spezza, Heatly isn't doing too good either.

So adding a superstar doesn't mean we'd have a better team all around. It depends on the whole team.
I agree though, having Kovalchuk instead of Kovalev would be much better.
Getting rid of Plekanec like you suggested in another thread is not a good idea though. We don't have much depth at center.

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12-14-2008, 01:30 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
i think a player should go out and say

"well you cant teach ex-players how to coach"
That is just a cheapshot.

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12-14-2008, 02:02 PM
  #48
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IMO, Carbo needs to look in the mirror a bit more. I know we had an incomplete lineup, but we've been having issues with effort and being organized all year. The PP is just a magnified example of the same problem I think we have five on five: getting the bloody puck across the offensive blueline. Most of our skilled puck-carriers (especially Pleks, Kovalev, and Tanguay) keep trying to just walk into the zone along the boards, then stop and wait for the zone to fill up with passing options, but this also lets the opposing D catch up. They get squeezed out once the defense sees this coming a mile away and converge on them, and clutter up the lassing lanes.

This really does nothing to take advantage of our team's speed. Once that happens a few times, especially on the power play, someone needs to clue in and try wrapping it around the boards or getting it deep and then beating the defense to the puck with our speed. That this team seems incapable of making those in-game adjustments doesn't exactly endorse the coaching staff either.

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12-14-2008, 02:14 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snakeye View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ET_(atari_2600)
The best game ever.



I'm not a Carboneau hater, I just found what he said to be kind of weird. By saying that he can not teach scoring, he's basically putting all the blame on the players, because they can't bury their chances, which is their own fault, and has nothing to do with the way they're being instructed to play.

I'd be curious to see how the team would react with a different coach behind the bench. It could be that Carboneau is not that good of a motivator, but it could also be that the players that compose this team have very little heart, and that the coach has nothing to do with their poor performance.
Ya, I saw a video on Youtube on how much the games sucked. We actually owned an Intelivision when I was a kid. And I think I even played that game!!

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12-14-2008, 02:19 PM
  #50
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To me, one of the keys is confidence. Last year when the team was scoring at will, they were loose and had a air about them that they could score 3 goals to win a game after being down 3-1. We saw glimpses of this early in the season but it is no longer part of the team's psyche. However, I think the reason for our ineptitude at times is the powerplay. It takes momentum away from the team. Moreover, when you can get a PP goal every game and two PP goals every other game, you will win more games (captain obvious here).

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