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Kyle Chipchura - Scott Hartnell

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07-11-2004, 01:28 PM
  #1
db23
 
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Kyle Chipchura - Scott Hartnell

Looking around to find a good comparison for Chipchura among current NHLers, I think that Scott Hartnell might be a good example. They are both about the same size, both hard working Alberta boys who represented the province at the Canada Winter Games and the country at the U18. Both played junior hockey for the Prince Albert Raiders, and both had similar point totals in the WHL as rookies. Hartnell broke out in the last half of his second season there, and ended up as the 3rd ranked N.A. skater by the CSS. Chipchura was hampered by a groin injury his second half, but still ended up as the 4th ranked N.A. skater.

When he was drafted (6th overall in 2000), Hartnell was described as a hard working, physical "team" player who wasn't worried about his own stats. A strong defensive forward who would stand up for his teammates and did all the little things that it took to win. There were concerns about his offensive upside, although it was thought to be better than what is projected for Chipchura. Hartnell has played the second most NHL games of any player taken in the 2000 draft, just a couple less than Marian Gaborik.

The one guy I'm glad they passed on was Korpikoski. He only played junior in Finland and didn't score much there. Whoever wanted Korpikoski, you will be thankful that they didn't take him. It was the same as Kostitsyn, he got all the attention for scoring a bunch of points in one touranment as part of a big line.

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07-11-2004, 01:33 PM
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That's the kind of player I was thinking of when they selected him. I like everything I've seen of Hartnell and I suspect the numbers will improve as he learns the league a bit. That's a fair upside. I won't mention where Hartnell was picked because I want Russian Fan to digest his dinner and not get too upset. Kidding RF, just kidding. I guess the flip side of your comparison woyuld be Sutherby who is/was described in similar terms. I thought he would be a little farther along by now.

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07-11-2004, 01:52 PM
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Continue to not talk about Kastsitsyn, I found this post was a really good one!

Nice comparaison, totally agree with you. After seeing Chipchura today, I more than happy that Timmins chose him!

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07-11-2004, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
That's the kind of player I was thinking of when they selected him. I like everything I've seen of Hartnell and I suspect the numbers will improve as he learns the league a bit. That's a fair upside. I won't mention where Hartnell was picked because I want Russian Fan to digest his dinner and not get too upset. Kidding RF, just kidding. I guess the flip side of your comparison woyuld be Sutherby who is/was described in similar terms. I thought he would be a little farther along by now.
Somewhere between Hartnell and Sutherby is probably realisitic. To be fair, both of those players have been handicapped by injuries as pro players. Chipchura said that the groin pull he suffered last year was the first significant injury he has had. It don't think he plays quite as recklessly as Hartnell and Sutherby.

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07-11-2004, 02:14 PM
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Sutherby impressed me a lot in the WJC a few years back as exactly the type of player you build with. Is he now considered a disappointment ? I know he didn't produce much as a rookie, but that is normal for kids that age. I know he was injured, but what happened to him this year ? Was it a recovery year or has the forecast for him changed a bit ? At worst he seemed like a tough checking line type.

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07-11-2004, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
Sutherby impressed me a lot in the WJC a few years back as exactly the type of player you build with. Is he now considered a disappointment ? I know he didn't produce much as a rookie, but that is normal for kids that age. I know he was injured, but what happened to him this year ? Was it a recovery year or has the forecast for him changed a bit ? At worst he seemed like a tough checking line type.
Sutherby is the same age as Mike Komisarek, so it is a bit early to judge him. Some players have to play so hard to make the cut that they are constantly injured. Sutherby seems to be one of those players. Chipchura is a bit more laid back, which may be an asset in the long run.

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07-22-2004, 01:54 AM
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I don't really see the Chipchura\Hartnell comparison, at least at this stage. Hartnell has, over time...become more offensive\less physical...a good comparison is Shane Doan. Chipchura(someone I was high on for the Preds, though I feel they needed to take the risk they did in Radulov, this year) reminds me more of someone like Todd White or Rem Murray. These are guys that glue a team together...and while they can't be counted on to set the world on fire offensively...they win faceoffs for you and chip in goals when they count. The old saying about winning championships on the backs of guys like this definitely rings true.

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07-22-2004, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
These are guys that glue a team together...and while they can't be counted on to set the world on fire offensively...they win faceoffs for you and chip in goals when they count. The old saying about winning championships on the backs of guys like this definitely rings true.
Your remarks remind me of a player of the past who wore #23 for the Habs. In time, Kyle Chipchura could possibly become a player a bit in the Bob Gainey mold. I don't want to put too much pressure on the kid, but I believe the comparison is not that way out if you compare him to Bob Gainey when the latter was 18.

Kyle Chipchura is a very good acquisition for the Habs. He's definitely what the doctor ordered for a team who has too many soft players who do very little hitting and don't report to work for every game.


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07-22-2004, 07:56 AM
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rocket, your last paragraph got me thinking. I think that the Canadiens are regarded around the league as a hard working team. I'm going by various people around the game evaluating teams, so in reality, just vague comments. Can your comments be more about the fact that a lot of teams just don't show up some nights and the frustration that at these prices, we should see more ? Or comparitively speaking, do you find the team on the lazy side ? I agree that their physical game is lacking and has been for many years, but in terms of effort, I don't realy have a problem.

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07-22-2004, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
rocket, your last paragraph got me thinking. I think that the Canadiens are regarded around the league as a hard working team. I'm going by various people around the game evaluating teams, so in reality, just vague comments. Can your comments be more about the fact that a lot of teams just don't show up some nights and the frustration that at these prices, we should see more ? Or comparitively speaking, do you find the team on the lazy side ? I agree that their physical game is lacking and has been for many years, but in terms of effort, I don't realy have a problem.
The Habs had a pretty good season in 2003-04 thanks mainly to a fantastic winning streak between February 23rd and March 20th during which they had a record of 11-1-1-1. Was it coincidental that this winning streak started immediately after the much publicized Koivu/Ribeiro cross-checking incident during a practice ? They certainly worked really hard during those 14 games.

For the rest of the season, the Habs were very streaky and played just about .500 hockey. They would win 4, lose 4, win 1, lose 1 etc... They looked like a Dr Jekill and Mr Hyde team. Even in their last two playoff appearances they looked like Stanley Cup contenders in the first rounds against the Bruins and they looked like a very ordinary team in the second rounds against the 'Canes and the Bolts.

I can remember Brisebois and Quintal, when interviewed after some defeats, admitting candidly: "We failed to show up tonight; that's why we lost."

I don't view the Habs yet as a hardworking team on a consistent basis but I believe the acquisition of Bégin produced a welcomed improvement this year as far as grit is concerned. The drafting of Kyle Chipchura is another step in the right direction.

In the last few years, a visit to the Molson/Bell Center for a lot of teams was viewed most often as nothing more than a walk in the park.


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07-22-2004, 09:08 AM
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Taking a look at Hartnell and comparing it to Chipchura I think it's a good comparison and I hope it's an accurate one cause Hartnell is a good young player.

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07-22-2004, 09:17 AM
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Recently I read the book "The game" written by Ken Dryden.
In the book it was mentioned that you cannot have too many stars in a team. A good team consists of stars who make plays, role players who are good in faceoffs and penalty killing and supporting players (players who controls the along the board, fighter, bangers who dig the puck out from the corner). A team is like a system. You can have a lot of Amplifiers but if your CD player is not good, you won't hear good music.
I believe to be an elite team, you need the best person for the specific role. You can't have 12 Koivu, 6 Markov and 2 Theodore and expect a team like that to win.
Chipchura is something this team is lacking. I like the pick. And personally I won't compare Chipchura with anyone until the end of next year. I want to see how he progress and how much he can produce when he is healthy.

Just my 2 cents


Last edited by Dragon: 07-22-2004 at 12:23 PM.
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07-22-2004, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketlives
The Habs had a pretty good season in 2003-04 thanks mainly to a fantastic winning streak between February 23rd and March 20th during which they had a record of 11-1-1-1. Was it coincidental that this winning streak started immediately after the much publicized Koivu/Ribeiro cross-checking incident during a practice ? They certainly worked really hard during those 14 games.

For the rest of the season, the Habs were very streaky and played just about .500 hockey. They would win 4, lose 4, win 1, lose 1 etc... They looked like a Dr Jekill and Mr Hyde team. Even in their last two playoff appearances they looked like Stanley Cup contenders in the first rounds against the Bruins and they looked like a very ordinary team in the second rounds against the 'Canes and the Bolts.

I can remember Brisebois and Quintal, when interviewed after some defeats, admitting candidly: "We failed to show up tonight; that's why we lost."

I don't view the Habs yet as a hardworking team on a consistent basis but I believe the acquisition of Bégin produced a welcomed improvement this year as far as grit is concerned. The drafting of Kyle Chipchura is another step in the right direction.

In the last few years, a visit to the Molson/Bell Center for a lot of teams was viewed most often as nothing more than a walk in the park.

I kind of agree, esp. that we need to be a more unpleasant team to play against. I guess I was more referring to effort and you were talking about grit.
Nashville's a hard working team, but you wouldn't compare their grit to a team like Calgary.

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07-22-2004, 02:30 PM
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good comparison db23, i agree with you. It would be nice i always loved hartnell.

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07-22-2004, 04:09 PM
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If they are indeed comparable (like it was stated, but I have seen very little of Hartnell, and none of Chipchura), I only do hope that Chipchura will start being productive faster than Hartnell.....because I remember how he wasn't good (production wise) at the beginning of his career.

However, he does now look like a fairly good young player, with good leadership capability. I'll hope Chipchura turns into a even better Hartnell hehe

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07-22-2004, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mortello2k4
If they are indeed comparable (like it was stated, but I have seen very little of Hartnell, and none of Chipchura), I only do hope that Chipchura will start being productive faster than Hartnell.....because I remember how he wasn't good (production wise) at the beginning of his career.

However, he does now look like a fairly good young player, with good leadership capability. I'll hope Chipchura turns into a even better Hartnell hehe

now, that's not being fair to hartnell. he was given no AHL time and probably should have had at least another yaer of juniors. instead, he made it as an 18 year old and spent a year playing a grinding role with vitali yachmenev on the fourth line. not exactly a place to impress with production. it wasn't until his late second year that it was even realized that he could really be a goal-scorer...and from the third line. over the past two years, he's had some injury problems...but has otherwise been our most consistent scorer. last year in particular, playing mostly third line minutes with adam hall and greg johnson...he scored 18 goals in 59 games, and if not for his injury would almost certainly have hit 25...all while playing 15-16 minutes a game. i don't think anyone was ever "disappointed" in him, and if chipchura gets some time to develop, he'd be very fortunate(as would you) if he developed into a scott hartnell type of player. i just don't see the comparison, despite loving both players.

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07-22-2004, 06:46 PM
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Hartnell is a total effort player, I don't think that Chipchura has the same intensity. On the other hand going all out all the time can wear a player down. Hartnell is fairly big and very strong, but he always seems to be nicked.

In terms of how much of a "success" Hartnell is, for Habs fans it is worthy to note that he has played over 300 NHL games and he is a few months younger than Mike Komisarek. I would be very happy if Chipchura was as successful at the age of 22.

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