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Old
12-15-2008, 11:28 AM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFlyingP View Post
We are not playing over our heads. We have more balanced scoring than anyone in the division, that makes up for our defensive liabilities. Plus all these one goal games we have won will serve us well later on. We are battle tested.
The one goal games are really important to consider especially if you're going to bring up plus/minus. Plus/minus is important, but it isn't everything. The other part of it is to react to the other team during the game, make the necessary adjustments, and just make sure you come out with the 2 points. For example if the other team didn't come to play, maybe you conserve a little energy and don't go all out on them. Save it for the teams that really bring it. It's more of an organic, flowing viewpoint than to just look at the GF and GA columns to determine how good the team is.

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Old
12-15-2008, 12:26 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Last year
PP coach: Mullen.
PK coach: Murray.

This year
PP coach: Mullen.
PK coach: Berube.

Name not mentioned: Stevens.
Not mentioned by who? You???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Stevens has proven incapable to pull the team out of tailspins quickly.
Except for the one earlier this year, I guess

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12-15-2008, 03:04 PM
  #53
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I am doubting as most teams go through hot and cold streaks, there goaltending and defense are not good enough to win the cup. Still way to inconsistent. Could they win? Sure but very very doubtful.

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12-15-2008, 05:08 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Except for the one earlier this year, I guess
6 games isn't quickly. He's got 3 10-game losing streak and an extra 2 6-gamers. He can typically do the job within a game, but a record like that will get you fired more times than not.

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Old
12-15-2008, 05:17 PM
  #55
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I really do believe that for the past 10 or so games the team has played much better than any point in the past. We aren't seeing the same level of sloppy and disorganized play as we are used to.

HOWEVER, as anyone who has watched this team over the past 2.5 seasons knows, they are prone to streaky play. If this holds up over the course of the season, then i will believe in Stevens.

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Old
12-15-2008, 05:35 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
No, Biron played great when it counted.....Unless you are Brodeur, Hasek or Patrick Roy, that is essentially every goalie that has won the cup in the past 15-20 years....Chris Osgood???? Cam Ward???? Khabibulin????

Decent regular season goalies who stood on their head when they needed to.

Other than a 10 game stretch in the middle of the season last year, Biron was arguably our best player and you want to dismiss him after a bad start???? Talk about jumping on/off the bandwagon....

This is his contract year, I can almost guarantee he gets hot at the right time.....
Not arguing Biron was the MVP in the playoffs, and Birons ok, and if he plays spectaular again in the playoffs, then Ill say the guys the best ever.

I wasnt really pointing out Biron in the "got hot at the right time" thing, it was the whole team, and there is nothing wrong with that. Id rather be the best team in the NHL in the spring rather than the winter. Most every championship team gets hot at the right time (Phils??? Giants???).

Im not trying to dismiss Biron at all, if he is who we have, im comfortable with that, he proved himself worthy last season in the playoffs. If Philly has a healthy Timonen and Coburn, the East Finals may end differently. but if Homer can improve the goaltender position, and it can be improved, Im all for it. I dont care if Biron plays like crap in December, as long as hes playing solid in the spring. Not all of his goals against are his fault either, I realize that too.

Id rather have the top 4 defensive defenseman than a golaie who is super human.

And I never mentioned Biron or discounted him at all. All I said was to be considered a Cup Contender they would need to upgrade goalie and defense.

Right now I think the Flyers are about where they were last year, if not better, since the core of this team is a little bit older, and has significant playoff experiance.

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Old
12-15-2008, 07:36 PM
  #57
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since nov 8 (the eminger/downie for carle trade) the flyers are 12-2-3.
i guess eminger was that bad.

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Old
12-15-2008, 07:54 PM
  #58
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I'm loving it right now but I'm not going to get overconfident. I still don't have faith in Stevens and Biron gives up soft goals pretty much once a game. 5 on 5 needs to get better but at least it has been lately, and it's imperative that guys other than Gagne, Carter and Richards continue to score.

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Old
12-15-2008, 08:10 PM
  #59
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It's funny. Stevens has been in as many or more conference finals for the Flyers as every coach not named Keenan or Murray, but he gets no credit at all.

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Old
12-15-2008, 08:17 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrederickFlyer27 View Post
since nov 8 (the eminger/downie for carle trade) the flyers are 12-2-3.
i guess eminger was that bad.
Or maybe its a combo of Eminger and downie not adding anything to the team and Carle being good. The flyers were 1-3-2 with downie playing and it was right after they sent him back to the AHL in the beginning of the season that they started winning. Same thing when they traded the two of them, they caught fire.

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Old
12-15-2008, 08:20 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
It's funny. Stevens has been in as many or more conference finals for the Flyers as every coach not named Keenan or Murray, but he gets no credit at all.
When the team was playing bad in the beginning of the season it was because stevens sucked and no blame was on the players. when they picked it up it was all about the players talent and no credit to stevens. As much as i dont think hes a good coach its become so ridiculous here that i dont even bother to look at that stupid stevens hate thread anymore. Hes such a scapegoat when we lose but never a hero when we win. Win = Homer, assistant coaches, and the players...lose = Stevens and nobody else.

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Old
12-15-2008, 09:32 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
It's funny. Stevens has been in as many or more conference finals for the Flyers as every coach not named Keenan or Murray, but he gets no credit at all.
Stevens only made it last year 'cause Biron stood on his head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
Win = Homer, assistant coaches, and the players...lose = Stevens and nobody else.
Well, sometimes it has been Stevens and Modry or Stevens and Vandermeer or Stevens and Jones.

Definitely the common denominator in All.Things.Bad. is the passionless, bus-tossing, line-juggling, confidence-ruining, Kukks-and-Downie-and-Upshall-misusing Cake Baker.

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Old
12-15-2008, 10:30 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
It's funny. Stevens has been in as many or more conference finals for the Flyers as every coach not named Keenan or Murray, but he gets no credit at all.
That's not really a strong argument

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Old
12-15-2008, 10:49 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
It's funny. Stevens has been in as many or more conference finals for the Flyers as every coach not named Keenan or Murray, but he gets no credit at all.
It's funny you think that means anything at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
When the team was playing bad in the beginning of the season it was because stevens sucked and no blame was on the players. when they picked it up it was all about the players talent and no credit to stevens. As much as i dont think hes a good coach its become so ridiculous here that i dont even bother to look at that stupid stevens hate thread anymore. Hes such a scapegoat when we lose but never a hero when we win. Win = Homer, assistant coaches, and the players...lose = Stevens and nobody else.
Yeah, the goaltenders sucking hard and the fact that our defense blew hard wasn't getting any play at all. Just Stevens.

Cem on.

Stevens gets criticized plenty, I'm not denying it. But if you want to defend him, don't claim he's the only one getting criticized. It's just not true. Reference the "we need a new goaltender thread" that's been floating around lately. Biron has played BETTER since the first 6 games by a wide margin.

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Old
12-15-2008, 10:57 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Stevens only made it last year 'cause Biron stood on his head.
The team only made it to the conference finals because of Stevens out-coaching every other team

This could go on all day. The first one at least holds some truth.

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Old
12-15-2008, 11:29 PM
  #66
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Never doubted Flyers team or talent. Flyers must be top 3 in the East and will only get better. A year or two from now we should be top 3 team in NHL. imo

Our coaching staff is not as talented and/or experienced as our players.

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Old
12-15-2008, 11:47 PM
  #67
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Just give some of the honks (and I use that term lovingly! Don't kill me!!) on here time. They'll come up with something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Like the fact that we're a horrible even strength team and live and die by our special teams?

Last year
PP coach: Mullen.
PK coach: Murray.

This year
PP coach: Mullen.
PK coach: Berube.

Name not mentioned: Stevens.

2nd most talented team in the division last year, and we finished...4th. Stevens has his strengths, namely the players seem to like playing for him. However, he has yet to prove he's the entire package...lets see what happens when things go south this year. Stevens has proven incapable to pull the team out of tailspins quickly.
6 hours and 6 minutes!!!

Well done Jester!!!!!

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Old
12-16-2008, 01:15 AM
  #68
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Okay, so I had a really long post, on why I would hate playing the Flyers if i was an opposing team. But HF bunked out me and logged me out. So i'm gonna keep this short&sweet.

Basically the way we are playing right now, is amazing. I also touched base on me believing the fact that we will probably hit another wall. Just like what had happened after the All-Star break last season. But, my point on my post was, man I would hate coming into Philadelphia to play the Flyers right now.

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Old
12-16-2008, 01:09 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDrizzle81 View Post
Not arguing Biron was the MVP in the playoffs, and Birons ok, and if he plays spectaular again in the playoffs, then Ill say the guys the best ever.

I wasnt really pointing out Biron in the "got hot at the right time" thing, it was the whole team, and there is nothing wrong with that. Id rather be the best team in the NHL in the spring rather than the winter. Most every championship team gets hot at the right time (Phils??? Giants???).

Im not trying to dismiss Biron at all, if he is who we have, im comfortable with that, he proved himself worthy last season in the playoffs. If Philly has a healthy Timonen and Coburn, the East Finals may end differently. but if Homer can improve the goaltender position, and it can be improved, Im all for it. I dont care if Biron plays like crap in December, as long as hes playing solid in the spring. Not all of his goals against are his fault either, I realize that too.

Id rather have the top 4 defensive defenseman than a golaie who is super human.

And I never mentioned Biron or discounted him at all. All I said was to be considered a Cup Contender they would need to upgrade goalie and defense.

Right now I think the Flyers are about where they were last year, if not better, since the core of this team is a little bit older, and has significant playoff experiance.
The team was playing well for the last few weeks of the season, it coincided with Briere finally getting a line that worked. Whatever line Richards was on all year was pretty consistent and Carter was pretty consistent in the third line role last year.

Biron turned it up a notch in the playoffs.

We can agree to disagree, but whether we need to or not there is no option out ther for us to upgrade our goaltending, although I dont think we need to.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrederickFlyer27 View Post
since nov 8 (the eminger/downie for carle trade) the flyers are 12-2-3.
i guess eminger was that bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
Or maybe its a combo of Eminger and downie not adding anything to the team and Carle being good. The flyers were 1-3-2 with downie playing and it was right after they sent him back to the AHL in the beginning of the season that they started winning. Same thing when they traded the two of them, they caught fire.
Funny how Eminger is playing very well for Tampa....

Quote:
Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
The team only made it to the conference finals because of Stevens out-coaching every other team

This could go on all day. The first one at least holds some truth.
Seriously.....Yeah, the playoffs had nothing to do with Biron.....We were outplayed and outshot and still won. Let me guess, that was Stevens that put on the mask and stopped all the pucks after those give aways by Randy Jones????

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Old
12-17-2008, 01:47 PM
  #70
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The Flyers are 13-2-3 since Nov. 8.
14 of those 18 games were 1-goal games, with the Flyers winning 10 (two include ENGs).
14 of those games were against teams in 8th or lower in their conference (Canes 4x, Isles and Lightning 2x, Thrashers, Sabres, Leafs, Stars, Coyotes, Avs.

It's great the Flyers are winning, and you can point to their great success in 1-goal games as a sign of good things to come. But they are beating the teams they ought to beat. They are average at best at even strength.
They have looked better in these games, but look at the New Jersey game two weeks ago, or even the Isles game last week. There are still too many breakdowns, whether systemic or individual. These lesser teams just aren't making them pay (the Devils did, but they aren't a lesser team).
Be optimistic. Be excited. But be cautious, so much can happen the rest of the way. This Flyers team can go a very long way in the playoffs, and is just as capable of having tee times for April 13. No one was wrong for their early-season concern. No one is wrong for their optimism now.
Here's hoping this team has learned something from this stretch, because the holiday Western trip is coming up.

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Old
12-17-2008, 03:48 PM
  #71
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There are still too many breakdowns, whether systemic or individual. These lesser teams just aren't making them pay (the Devils did, but they aren't a lesser team).
I'd sure like to see the defense come together better. I think components of that include:

- they need better play from Coburn. they'll need a true top pair come April and they don't have one at present.

- find two good pairs among Alberts, Vaananen, Jones, Parent, Carle, Kukkonen, and Alberts. somewhere in there, there are two solid pairings.

- stay healthy

FWIW, for cap reasons I think they will make moves well before the deadline.

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Old
12-17-2008, 04:27 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Like the fact that we're a horrible even strength team and live and die by our special teams?

Last year
PP coach: Mullen.
PK coach: Murray.

This year
PP coach: Mullen.
PK coach: Berube.

Name not mentioned: Stevens.
Not mentioned by who? You? The Head Coach is responsible for every aspect of the team on the ice. If he get's the blame when things go wrong. Then he also gets credit when things go right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
2nd most talented team in the division last year, and we finished...4th. Stevens has his strengths, namely the players seem to like playing for him. However, he has yet to prove he's the entire package...lets see what happens when things go south this year. Stevens has proven incapable to pull the team out of tailspins quickly.
I guess your forgot about the the 10 game losing streak late in the Season, last year. When many fans were ready to jump off a bridge. He got the team turned around, and they went to the ECF. So how has he proven incapable of pulling the team out of tailspins? How about the 0-3-3 start to this Season. Only to go 17-4-3 since. Clearly, your not paying attention. Stevens is certainly not a perfect Coach. He's a young developing Coach, with a young developing team. But he's doing a fine job.

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Old
12-17-2008, 04:55 PM
  #73
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Not mentioned by who? You? The Head Coach is responsible for every aspect of the team on the ice. If he get's the blame when things go wrong. Then he also gets credit when things go right.
Not for the PK or PP, he hasn't coached them since he got here. Berube was coaching the PP during the first season (thank god that experiment ended, as he was a disaster there). Mullen has coached one of the best units in the league the last two years...and has had full credit given his way. Last year Terry Murray coached the PK and this year it's Berube.

Stevens gets credit for delegating authority--an important skill in management--but he does not get credit for either units success. And, no, he doesn't get killed for their failures either.

So, no, the Head Coach is not responsible for every aspect of what's going on out there. The Head Coach is not directly responsible for most line changes, for example, Assistant Coaches manage that. And it's been acknowledged by everyone that our Head Coach isn't responsible for our special teams.

Quote:
I guess your forgot about the the 10 game losing streak late in the Season, last year. When many fans were ready to jump off a bridge. He got the team turned around, and they went to the ECF. So how has he proven incapable of pulling the team out of tailspins? How about the 0-3-3 start to this Season. Only to go 17-4-3 since. Clearly, your not paying attention. Stevens is certainly not a perfect Coach. He's a young developing Coach, with a young developing team. But he's doing a fine job.
Quote:
Stevens has proven incapable to pull the team out of tailspins quickly.
Do we need to define "quickly," too? Because if you think losing 10 games in a row is a sign of quick recovery by the coach, you're delusional.

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Old
12-17-2008, 05:24 PM
  #74
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I'm just saying things were like this last year, then we **** the bed for the better part of the rest of the season. With a team like this, when we win a lot, I smile, when we lose a lot, I sigh. Never over react.

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Old
12-17-2008, 05:31 PM
  #75
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I guess Berube is teaching Gagne, Richards, Carter, Knuble, Metro and Hartnell how to PK. Do people actually believe that?

Maybe Berube can teach Briere how to PK? That will surprise the hell out of me. Then I will believe.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 12-17-2008 at 05:42 PM.
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