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Ersberg injured; Quick Recalled [Merged]

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Old
12-16-2008, 06:36 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by King Blazer View Post
yet they are #1 is limiting the total shots against per game. Goaltening issues back on!!!
Exactly. The goaltending has been inconsistent. Team defense has been consistent but goaltending hasn't been consistent on this team in about 5 years.

If the Kings have (healthy) Luongo in net this year, they probably win a shootout or two and a few of those one goal games they lost.

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12-16-2008, 06:39 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by King Blazer View Post
yet they are #1 is limiting the total shots against per game. Goaltening issues back on!!!
Well then the Red Wings really have goaltending issues......3rd in the league in shots against with 27/game......but are 25th in the league in GAA with 3.10.

Or Columbus who is 4th in the league in shots against with 27.5/game......but are 20th in the league in GAA with 2.97.

Or Toronto who is 6th in shots against with 27.9/game......but are 27th in the league in GAA with 3.28.

Maybe there really are only 10 #1 goalies in the NHL.

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12-16-2008, 06:49 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
Maybe there really are only 10 #1 goalies in the NHL.
Maybe 10. Maybe more? Maybe less???

You can keep puking up stats but you've probably figured out I just puke them back at folks...
Use your eyes man. The Kings goalies aren't "all that" consistent...

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12-16-2008, 06:52 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
Well then the Red Wings really have goaltending issues......3rd in the league in shots against with 27/game......but are 25th in the league in GAA with 3.10.

Or Columbus who is 4th in the league in shots against with 27.5/game......but are 20th in the league in GAA with 2.97.

Or Toronto who is 6th in shots against with 27.9/game......but are 27th in the league in GAA with 3.28.

Maybe there really are only 10 #1 goalies in the NHL.
You've gotta look at each case individually. You're taking a stat and making a blanket statement. I realize that I agree with the stat he was pointing at but in the Kings case. Do you really believe that the Kings have had good goaltending this year? I don't watch the Red Wings enough to know whether they've had defensive lapses or if goaltending has been the problem. I suspect both are at fault. In the case of Columbus, I think they certainly have goaltending issues. Leclaire has played like crap when he is healthy and they just waived their other goalie in favor of a rookie. Is that solid goaltending? Who is the #1 there? Again, I don't watch a lot of Toronto games but I'm guessing that Toskala's numbers are more indicative of a struggling defense but I could be wrong.

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12-16-2008, 06:53 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by King Blazer View Post
Use your eyes man. The Kings goalies aren't "all that" consistent...
Consistently mediocre.. maybe but even that is a stretch because they've both dropped some bombs this year.

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12-16-2008, 07:00 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
Obviously we all have our opinions and it appears nobody is being convinced to change theirs.....But consider this.....If Ersberg was put on waivers would he clear? If not, would he be the #1 goalie on the team that selected him? What ever your answer is will probably indicate if Ersberg is a valid #1 goalie or not.
Good question. IMO he'd pass through waivers, and if he was claimed, it would only be 1) by a team that would be in deep goaltending trouble and/or 2) because of his cheap contract and probably as a backup or a stop-gap.

I really don't see a lot of teams going with Ersberg as their #1.

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12-16-2008, 07:08 PM
  #57
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I don't think Ersberg would pass through waivers. Not at all. Would he be picked up and used as a #1 goalie on more than a two week basis by a team other than New Jersey? Nope.

The team has been quite fortunate in having one guy playing well when the other isn't. Neither of them have been in a bad stretch at the same time, but they both have had stretches in which it is clear that neither goaltender will be a #1 guy.

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12-16-2008, 07:13 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by King Blazer View Post
Maybe 10. Maybe more? Maybe less???

You can keep puking up stats but you've probably figured out I just puke them back at folks...
Use your eyes man. The Kings goalies aren't "all that" consistent...
I never said the Kings goalies were consistent.....but the same could be said with the majority of the league's goalies. The thing is that the Kings goaltending has given them an opportunity to win the majority of their games this year. If the Kings had a top 10 offense they would already be in the top 4 in the West in terms of standings and people would not have a lot to complain about.

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12-16-2008, 07:19 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
I never said the Kings goalies were consistent.....but the same could be said with the majority of the league's goalies. The thing is that the Kings goaltending has given them an opportunity to win the majority of their games this year. If the Kings had a top 10 offense they would already be in the top 4 in the West in terms of standings and people would not have a lot to complain about.
I appreciate your enthusiasm Ron! I've been defending the Kings goalies for a while now (well, not Cloutier). I'm not saying your guys aren't good (I'm one of the very few Labs fans), I just couldn't agree with your argument as to why Ersberg should be considered a #1.

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12-16-2008, 07:23 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
I never said the Kings goalies were consistent.....but the same could be said with the majority of the league's goalies. The thing is that the Kings goaltending has given them an opportunity to win the majority of their games this year. If the Kings had a top 10 offense they would already be in the top 4 in the West in terms of standings and people would not have a lot to complain about.
Bingo.

People still would find something to complain about though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Blazer View Post
yet they are #1 is limiting the total shots against per game. Goaltening issues back on!!!
Goaltending is not the top issue. Try again.

You can start with the fact that the Kings have as many games where they have allowed more than 3 goals in regulation as San Jose (7 out of 30), and yet San Jose is 1st in the league, and the Kings are 20th.

(Hint - your analysis will go faster if you realize it's not goaltending that's the problem. It's scoring.)

- T


Last edited by TonySCV: 12-16-2008 at 07:36 PM.
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Old
12-16-2008, 07:25 PM
  #61
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I appreciate your enthusiasm Ron! I've been defending the Kings goalies for a while now (well, not Cloutier). I'm not saying your guys aren't good (I'm one of the very few Labs fans), I just couldn't agree with your argument as to why Ersberg should be considered a #1.
And I can see your side as well. But I am basing my opinions on how well many of the other goaltenders in the league are currently performing. Right now Ersberg is better than many so-called #1 goalies. If Ersberg was on the Red Wings would he have a significantly higher GAA than he does now even though he would only be facing 2 more shots/game? What about if he were on the Blue Jackets? or the Maple Leafs? or the Dallas Stars?

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12-16-2008, 07:35 PM
  #62
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Bingo.

People still would find something to complain about though.

- T
I already pointed out previously that of the Kings 12 regulation losses they scored 2 goals or less 10 times. How many games does anyone expect to win when they score 2 goals or less? How can any of those losses be blamed on the goalie? If the Kings scored 3 goals/game in all of those games the Kings would currently have at least 8 more points in the standings which would put them in 4th place in the Western Conference.

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Old
12-16-2008, 07:45 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
I never said the Kings goalies were consistent.....but the same could be said with the majority of the league's goalies. The thing is that the Kings goaltending has given them an opportunity to win the majority of their games this year. If the Kings had a top 10 offense they would already be in the top 4 in the West in terms of standings and people would not have a lot to complain about.
Or maybe the new defensive, shot blocking and limiting system has given them an opportunity to win games and the goaltending hasn't been there at the critical moment? I'll suggest that is certainly a possibility but many will disagree. Oh well...

If the Kings had a top 10 offense right now, they might not continue to allow the fewest shots in the league and if you assume that the goaltending would stay level, they'd give up more goals and well, I think you see where this goes...

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12-16-2008, 07:53 PM
  #64
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Or maybe the new defensive, shot blocking and limiting system has given them an opportunity to win games and the goaltending hasn't been there at the critical moment? I'll suggest that is certainly a possibility but many will disagree. Oh well...
So you are saying that those 10 of 12 losses where the Kings only scored 2 goals that the Kings goalies should have given up 1 or none? Is that a realistic expectation?

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Originally Posted by King Blazer View Post
If the Kings had a top 10 offense right now, they might not continue to allow the fewest shots in the league and if you assume that the goaltending would stay level, they'd give up more goals and well, I think you see where this goes...
It is possible....but I can remember several times over these past few months where the Kings missed wide open nets or had great opportunities to score (but failed) while they were still keeping the shots against low. Was that the goaltenders fault?

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12-16-2008, 08:02 PM
  #65
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So you are saying that those 10 of 12 losses where the Kings only scored 2 goals that the Kings goalies should have given up 1 or none? Is that a realistic expectation?
What I'm saying is that as a TEAM, they have limited the oppositions shots, quality scoring chances and yes goals...

Moving forward, I've said the it's likely that IF as a TEAM they were to move into a more offensive look, it would probably come at the sacrifice of some of the smothering defensive play and in turn they'd be likely to give up more shots, quality scoring chances and goals...


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It is possible....but I can remember several times over these past few months where the Kings missed wide open nets or had great opportunities to score (but failed) while they were still keeping the shots against low. Was that the goaltenders fault?
Absolutely not that still doesn't make either goalie an NHL #1 goalie. I've actually seen a player or two (other than a goalie) blocking wide open net shots, clearing pucks off goal lines and basically saving goals too!!!

LaBarbera and Ersberg are both UFA after this season. You think they should both be pursued?

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12-16-2008, 08:05 PM
  #66
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This may be a blessing in disguise...

Ersberg's replacement will play better than Labarbera (obviously) when given the chance. When Ersberg returns they'll send Labarbera back to Manchester where he belongs.

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12-16-2008, 08:12 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by King Blazer View Post
Or maybe the new defensive, shot blocking and limiting system has given them an opportunity to win games and the goaltending hasn't been there at the critical moment? I'll suggest that is certainly a possibility but many will disagree. Oh well.
The reason many will disagree is because the facts don't back up your argument. Scoring is the problem, not goaltending.

The longer you go on trying to discount objective data with subjective thoughts and feelings the worse it's going to get for you. "Critical moment" goaltending? Give me a break.

- T

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12-16-2008, 08:19 PM
  #68
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The reason many will disagree is because the facts don't back up your argument. Scoring is the problem, not goaltending.

The longer you go on trying to discount objective data with subjective thoughts and feelings the worse it's going to get for you. "Critical moment" goaltending? Give me a break.

- T
No Tony I won't give you a break. It's certainly NOT far fetched to suggest that if the Kings were to open up their game for the sake of offense they very well might expose themselves defensively and this could certainly have an unwanted consequence in that they'd give up more shots, scoring opportunities and assuming your "objective data" stayed current, GOALS AGAINST.

Goals against would go up as shots against go up. That's how the whole SAVE% stat works TONY. Get it???

Shots allowed this season are way down. That's a very good thing...

As far as subjective thoughts go, you're darn right I think a #1 NHL goalie would have a better save% than either LaBarbera or Ersberg playing behind the current team playing the defensive game that they are.

More subjectivity: I think the Kings TEAM has, on most nights, done a very good job of limiting opponents quality scoring opportunities this season...


Last edited by King Blazer: 12-16-2008 at 08:50 PM.
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12-16-2008, 09:15 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GummiBaked View Post
This may be a blessing in disguise...

Ersberg's replacement will play better than Labarbera (obviously) when given the chance. When Ersberg returns they'll send Labarbera back to Manchester where he belongs.
Negative. Labs will stay with the Kings until his contract is up. They won't renew his contract of course, but they give him a lot of clout for sticking with the club for so long trying to get the #1 spot. The only way we throw him out is if DL feels that he is absolutely incompetent and has considerable proof and a very good option to fall back on. He doesn't have any of those. Lab's stinks but his numbers don't, he has put up with a lot with this club, and we don't have a very good option to fall back on unless everyone here has gone mad and believe that Quick will get us a few rounds in the playoffs.

DL is not the kind of GM that would give the job to Quick or Bernier so easily midway through the season. Next season will be much better. Labs will be gone, I am predicting that DL will sign Ersberg to another 1 year deal, and we will have either Quick or Bernier potentially coming out of camp with a job. If not we may see a free agent/trade acquisition by DL.

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12-16-2008, 09:26 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by King Blazer View Post
No Tony I won't give you a break. It's certainly NOT far fetched to suggest that if the Kings were to open up their game for the sake of offense they very well might expose themselves defensively and this could certainly have an unwanted consequence in that they'd give up more shots, scoring opportunities and assuming your "objective data" stayed current, GOALS AGAINST.

Goals against would go up as shots against go up. That's how the whole SAVE% stat works TONY. Get it???

Shots allowed this season are way down. That's a very good thing...

As far as subjective thoughts go, you're darn right I think a #1 NHL goalie would have a better save% than either LaBarbera or Ersberg playing behind the current team playing the defensive game that they are.

More subjectivity: I think the Kings TEAM has, on most nights, done a very good job of limiting opponents quality scoring opportunities this season...
+1...

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Old
12-16-2008, 10:02 PM
  #71
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http://www.insidesocal.com/kings/200...al-update.html

Ersberg expected to be out 2 weeks.

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12-16-2008, 10:06 PM
  #72
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Quote:
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http://www.insidesocal.com/kings/200...al-update.html

Ersberg expected to be out 2 weeks.
That is not bad at all and is perfect for Quick and Zatkoff. Will be nice to see someone new in net in one of these upcoming games. Hopefully our offense steps it up for Quick that night like they did last time he was in goal for them... The Sabres game would be perfectly fitting hehe. If we could repeat that scenario from last year I would be overjoyed.

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12-16-2008, 11:16 PM
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That is not bad at all and is perfect for Quick and Zatkoff. Will be nice to see someone new in net in one of these upcoming games. Hopefully our offense steps it up for Quick that night like they did last time he was in goal for them... The Sabres game would be perfectly fitting hehe. If we could repeat that scenario from last year I would be overjoyed.
The only thing that worries me about that is if he starts vs Buffalo. . .He has to deal with Thomas Vanek. . .but who knows.

BTW, nice avatar. .

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12-17-2008, 12:17 AM
  #74
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Let's not be too Quick to judge the goaltending situation.

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12-17-2008, 10:13 AM
  #75
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It could be more like "The Quick and the Dead (Labs)" after a few weeks if things get ugly.

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