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Old
12-17-2008, 11:27 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by King Blazer View Post
No Tony I won't give you a break. It's certainly NOT far fetched to suggest that if the Kings were to open up their game for the sake of offense they very well might expose themselves defensively and this could certainly have an unwanted consequence in that they'd give up more shots, scoring opportunities and assuming your "objective data" stayed current, GOALS AGAINST.
It is not "far fetched"....but the way you are making it sound is that the Kings couls have the best GAA in the league and you would still make the claim that goaltending was a big concern. That is like a team that consistently loses games 5-4 claiming that offense is their main concern.....because if they could scroe 6 goals/game they would win more often.

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Goals against would go up as shots against go up. That's how the whole SAVE% stat works TONY. Get it???

Shots allowed this season are way down. That's a very good thing...

As far as subjective thoughts go, you're darn right I think a #1 NHL goalie would have a better save% than either LaBarbera or Ersberg playing behind the current team playing the defensive game that they are.

More subjectivity: I think the Kings TEAM has, on most nights, done a very good job of limiting opponents quality scoring opportunities this season...
So where exactly is the line of save % between a back-up and a #1 goaltender? Does that mean that Kiprusoff, Toskala, Turco, and Osgood are back-up goaltenders as well?

I get the general synopsis of what you are trying to suggest KB.....but when the team is top 10 in a category like GAA I think that it should no longer be considered one of the top concerns.....because even if the Kings had an all star goalie behind their stingy defense, that all star goalie would still give up about 2 goals/game.......which is not much better than what the Kings have now and it might only result in 4 more points in the standings. Whereas (as I pointed out earlier) a better offense could have giving the Kings an 8 point boost in the standings.

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12-17-2008, 12:25 PM
  #77
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Point being that the Kings could have the best GAA in the league and goaltending could be an issue. IMO, GAA is more indicative of TEAM play than that of the individual goaltenders...

Again, I'm not suggesting that there is this black and white cutoff number for SV% that distinguises a true #1 NHL goalie from a back-up...

For those that like the numbers I'll play along. Ersberg was at about 0.930 in SV% last season and is currently running at about 0.900 behind a much better defensive team. What gives?

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12-17-2008, 12:39 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by King Blazer View Post
For those that like the numbers I'll play along. Ersberg was at about 0.930 in SV% last season and is currently running at about 0.900 behind a much better defensive team. What gives?
Part of the that is the fact that this year we give up 25.9 shots against per game, last year it was 32.0. His SV% is going to be lower even if he's playing the exact same. If you add those extra six shots a game and say he saved them all his SV% would be .924; .003 less than last year.


Last edited by FootKnight: 12-17-2008 at 12:46 PM.
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12-17-2008, 12:57 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by FootKnight View Post
Part of the that is the fact that this year we give up 25.9 shots against per game, last year it was 32.0. His SV% is going to be lower even if he's playing the exact same. If you add those extra six shots a game and say he saved them all his SV% would be .924; .003 less than last year.
I don't think so...

The Formula: Divide the number saves made by the number of shots on goal. Work it out to 3 decimal places.


Last edited by King Blazer: 12-17-2008 at 01:24 PM.
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12-17-2008, 01:12 PM
  #80
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I thought it was well-known that there are only around ten true #1 goalies in this league, guys that you feel can maybe steal wins in the playoffs for you and not have to be riding some hot streak to do so.

Neither of the Kings' goalies are #1s although Ersberg has the chance to become one while LolBarbara will never achieve that status. That being said, Ersberg has allowed two of the worst goals I've ever seen in Kings history this season.

In regards to the save percentage discussion and Ersberg, I think it's a little naive to claim he would have a .930 SAV% if the Kings just allowed 8 more shots a game because he would for sure stop them. Hypothetically, there could be numerous breakaways or 2-on-1s thrown into those 8 shots.

I like Ersberg and know that he can look like Roy at times when you look back on the last several years of Kings "goaltending", but he's not a #1 yet. Hopefully he can continue to be decent, Fiset-like if you will, and start 50 games next season while Bernier/Quick and whoever can get around 30.

LolBarbara can sign elsewhere though. Please.

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12-17-2008, 01:14 PM
  #81
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I'm sorry the #1 priority with this team this summer has to be the goaltending. You can spin it anyway you want but the fact of the matter is we are not getting solid NHL goaltending which is why both guys have been the #1 at one point (whether they where officially given the title or not) and lost it. Neither has been a stable force in the NHL for anything more than a few games at a time.

That is great that the Kings could've won more games with a few extra goals. I think some of that could be pegged on the line combos and players just playing in a funk. If Patrick O'Sullivan is on the line with Kopitar (regardless if Brown was or not) the whole season, those 5 or 6 point blank chances that we've all seen Calder squander go in and the Kings potentially win a few of those games without additional help. If we had consistent goaltending all year we probably would've won a few additional games as well. If anyone on here thinks that retaining both Ersberg and Labarbara is a sound decision, you haven't been a Kings fan for very long. We need somebody stable in net. I'm all for keeping Ersberg and signing a suitable 1A/B or #1 if it is possible.

I'm usually not a big critic of DL but he came here telling us we need to build from the back out. Up until this point, we've done the exact opposite and he has done nothing to address this issue aside for the Cloutier debacle. This is his 3rd year as a GM and the defense has finally come together but we are still lacking a goalie.

The same guys that were on the team last year are on the team this year and they scored plenty last year. I have plenty of faith in their ability to score goals and I think we're starting to see the offense in spurts because our best players are starting the play like that which they hadn't before.

If we go into next season with offensive UFA a la Gaborik and Jason Labarbara/Erik Ersberg as our goalies, I'll be pissed. Jason has had 3 years to show he can play in the NHL. He can't and I'm mf-ing sick of him. I don't have the hate for the guy some do around here but he is not the answer.

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12-17-2008, 03:05 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Blazer View Post
I don't think so...

The Formula: Divide the number saves made by the number of shots on goal. Work it out to 3 decimal places.
Ersberg currently has: 380 shots against, 343 saves
6 shots a game times the number of games Ersberg has played (18) = 108
380 + 108 = 488 shots against
343 + 108 = 451 saves
451/488 = .924

Edit:
Obviously there's no way to know if he would have stopped all 108 extra shots though.


Last edited by FootKnight: 12-17-2008 at 03:38 PM.
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Old
12-17-2008, 03:06 PM
  #83
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I agree totally....Labarbera cannot make the big saves in the 3rd or in shoot outs. Either of them have not been in the playoffs...

Kings need to look at guys like Lehtonen, Leclaire, or Bulin.

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12-17-2008, 04:20 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by FootKnight View Post
Edit:
Obviously there's no way to know if he would have stopped all 108 extra shots though.
That's what my I don't think so comment was directed at.

I understand what you were getting at, but as you've stated there's no way to know how many of the 108 extra shots he would have saved. IF you want to apply his current SV% to the 108 shots he probably saves around 90% of those or about 97-98 and lets in 10-11 goals or so...

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12-17-2008, 04:26 PM
  #85
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Im driving to buffalo tommorow night for saturdays game.

I hope they dont lose 10-1 today

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12-17-2008, 04:41 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by King Blazer View Post
That's what my I don't think so comment was directed at.

I understand what you were getting at, but as you've stated there's no way to know how many of the 108 extra shots he would have saved. IF you want to apply his current SV% to the 108 shots he probably saves around 90% of those or about 97-98 and lets in 10-11 goals or so...
You can't just apply his current SV% to the difference in shots either though. This is what is so difficult with goalie stats, none of them are really individual. It's the same with all hockey stats really, but goalies especially, nothing can be looked at by itself or even just with the goalies other stats. My point is just that Ersberg really isn't playing worse than last year. I didn't actually read the whole discussion between you and Ron, I was just commenting on that specifically, because it seems to me like people are expecting much better stats than Ersberg will be able to put up, especially in the SV% department.

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12-17-2008, 04:46 PM
  #87
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I'm glad we're all using stats now.

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12-17-2008, 04:53 PM
  #88
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I'm glad we're all using stats now.

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12-17-2008, 05:24 PM
  #89
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I'm sorry the #1 priority with this team this summer has to be the goaltending. You can spin it anyway you want but the fact of the matter is we are not getting solid NHL goaltending which is why both guys have been the #1 at one point (whether they where officially given the title or not) and lost it. Neither has been a stable force in the NHL for anything more than a few games at a time.

That is great that the Kings could've won more games with a few extra goals. I think some of that could be pegged on the line combos and players just playing in a funk. If Patrick O'Sullivan is on the line with Kopitar (regardless if Brown was or not) the whole season, those 5 or 6 point blank chances that we've all seen Calder squander go in and the Kings potentially win a few of those games without additional help. If we had consistent goaltending all year we probably would've won a few additional games as well. If anyone on here thinks that retaining both Ersberg and Labarbara is a sound decision, you haven't been a Kings fan for very long. We need somebody stable in net. I'm all for keeping Ersberg and signing a suitable 1A/B or #1 if it is possible.

I'm usually not a big critic of DL but he came here telling us we need to build from the back out. Up until this point, we've done the exact opposite and he has done nothing to address this issue aside for the Cloutier debacle. This is his 3rd year as a GM and the defense has finally come together but we are still lacking a goalie.

The same guys that were on the team last year are on the team this year and they scored plenty last year. I have plenty of faith in their ability to score goals and I think we're starting to see the offense in spurts because our best players are starting the play like that which they hadn't before.

If we go into next season with offensive UFA a la Gaborik and Jason Labarbara/Erik Ersberg as our goalies, I'll be pissed. Jason has had 3 years to show he can play in the NHL. He can't and I'm mf-ing sick of him. I don't have the hate for the guy some do around here but he is not the answer.
i totally agree with this guy

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12-17-2008, 05:41 PM
  #90
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And all this crap about Ersberg not being good enough is great and all. But I have not read anyone suggest who we would get to replace him? haha.. seriously..tackle that problem and you will come to the same conclusion as Lombardi.Goalie Big Lots..

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12-17-2008, 05:55 PM
  #91
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Well first off Mason is beating everyone out of Columbus for a job...so you can probably have Pascal Leclaire.

Chicago has both Bulin and Huet, and Bulin is making 6 million and is about to be a UFA.

Anderson is beating Vokoun and his big salary out of Florida.

Mason in St. Louis is making 3 million and Legace is going to be UFA.

Rinne is Nashville's future #1, making Ellis attainable.

Edmonton has 3 goalies. F Garon, but Roloson could be a cheap rental come March.

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12-17-2008, 06:06 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Dmoney97 View Post
i totally agree with this guy
Me too!

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And all this crap about Ersberg not being good enough is great and all. But I have not read anyone suggest who we would get to replace him? haha.. seriously..tackle that problem and you will come to the same conclusion as Lombardi.Goalie Big Lots..
This is DL's 3rd year and his mantra is "building from the back out". So far what he has done to address that in 3 years is sign Dan Cloutier, Ersberg and draft Jonathan Bernier who has been annointed the chosen one and he's played in what... 5 NHL games? You can not assume any of the prospects will amount to anything more than they are now. Could they become good/great? Yes but there is still a decent chance that they may never become regular NHL players though.

I think in these 3 years, if the goaltender position is consider one of the biggest building blocks, then you'd have to assume that something would be done especially now that the team is starting to turn the corner.

What is available? Well, look over the past 3 years and see what goaltenders have moved via trade and UFA. I'm not suggesting Lombardi should've gone after Luongo et al but I think he could've and still can do better than what he has. If the team is going to continue to grow, they'll need more stability in net. We can argue all day and all night about where Jason Labarbara belongs and what labels we should throw at Ersberg and Labarbara but the fact that remains is the LA Kings (outside of a handful of seasons) have not gotten consistent goaltending in 40 years. If you think Labarbara and Ersberg are sufficient, keep drinking the kool aid. I like Ersberg but I think getting another more experienced goalie would help a lot.

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12-17-2008, 06:24 PM
  #93
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agreed. and better put. I don't remember the details of the whole Vokoun pick up and I remember Toskola was traded for a 2nd but i might be mistaken. But I think DL should have sought after Vokoun a little more aggresively but then again I don't think he saw the kings still contending for the playoffs this season..hindsight is a *****.

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12-17-2008, 06:25 PM
  #94
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Well first off Mason is beating everyone out of Columbus for a job...so you can probably have Pascal Leclaire.

Chicago has both Bulin and Huet, and Bulin is making 6 million and is about to be a UFA.

Anderson is beating Vokoun and his big salary out of Florida.

Mason in St. Louis is making 3 million and Legace is going to be UFA.

Rinne is Nashville's future #1, making Ellis attainable.

Edmonton has 3 goalies. F Garon, but Roloson could be a cheap rental come March.
None of these are true number ones.. according to many people on this board..putting them in the same boat as Ersberg..but yeah..good list.

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12-17-2008, 06:38 PM
  #95
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None of these are true number ones.. according to many people on this board..putting them in the same boat as Ersberg..but yeah..good list.
Getting a true #1 is probably not realistic at this point just because of the assets we'd have to give up and find a willing partner. But those (above) are all much more viable options than Jason Labarbara. And again, Jason's been here 3 seasons. I think his time to poop or get of the pot has come and gone. DL needs to improve this part of the team before goal scoring.

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12-17-2008, 06:51 PM
  #96
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I'm happy giving Ersberg the reigns for this season and next, if he can stay mostly healthy. I think he has it in him to steal a few games here and there, and he gives the team a good chance to win 8 times out of 10, and that is fine with me. You don't need a goalie who plays 75 games a season to win anything or go deep in the playoffs. A solid 55-60 games a year guy is all you need.

The plan is definately and openly to develop our own number # 1, so don't ever expect anything more than a bridge stopgap goalie, probably one of the guys in Jonny U's list.

Until all of Quick, Bernier, Zatkoff and Jones and to a lesser extent Rowat and Taylor all prove that they are no better than what we have now, which will take at the least another 1-2 seasons, I can see no scenario where DL obtains another goalie.

Perhaps if in two seasons the team has made the playoffs at least once, and made it to the second round, and the goalie crapped out and DL senses their confidence is not strong enough to go deep in the playoffs, then he makes a major play for an established goalie.

I could easily be wrong, I think there maaaay be an outside chance he goes after a UFA goalie if Ersberg is out a looong time and when he comes back can't regain his sharp play.

All that being said, I will be severely dissapointed if Labs gets a new contract, REGARDLESS of what the situation with Ersberg/Bernier/Quick/Zatkoff and the team as a whole looks like at the end of the season. Also, while I love Ersberg and wouldn't mind him playing 55 or so games a year, Backstrom would be juuuuuuuuust fine (so long as his contract wouldn't screw our cap space).

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12-17-2008, 08:09 PM
  #97
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Don't know if it was already posted, but Zatkoff is playing tonight in Manchester.

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12-17-2008, 08:17 PM
  #98
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Don't know if it was already posted, but Zatkoff is playing tonight in Manchester.
Actually he's playing for Manchester in Manitoba. It's being reported that Bernier is "under the weather". Good thing Bernier wasn't called up to the Kings I mean with his being sick and all...

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12-17-2008, 08:19 PM
  #99
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Actually he's playing for Manchester in Manitoba. It's being reported that Bernier is "under the weather". Good thing Bernier wasn't called up to the Kings I mean with his being sick and all...
Yeah, thats what I meant.

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12-17-2008, 08:21 PM
  #100
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Yeah, thats what I meant.
That's what I figured...

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