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McKenzie: Deal in place for Sundin was:

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Old
12-16-2008, 08:44 PM
  #26
Fish on The Sand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogurt View Post
If that's the case, I've lost a lot of faith in Gainey.

That would have meant this season we'd have had no Higgins, no Grabovski, no Tanguay (because we used the first to get him) and no Sundin because he clearly doesn't want to play here.
This is wrong. If he waived his no trade it would mean he did want to play here and likely would have re-signed.

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Old
12-16-2008, 08:46 PM
  #27
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i am sure, bob would have done that , only if mats signed.

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Old
12-16-2008, 08:49 PM
  #28
Bill McNeal
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
This is wrong. If he waived his no trade it would mean he did want to play here and likely would have re-signed.
Given that he's had 7 months to look at every facet of the team and the city I'd say he'd have come to the same conclusion he has already come to whether he played a couple of games with us or not.

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Old
12-16-2008, 08:53 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNasty View Post
Higgins, Grabovsky and a 1st round pick.

Deal was agreed upon by both teams at the deadline last year but Sundin refused to waive the NTC.

Simmonds reported this and nobody believed him.

Philly also offered Carter and a 1st.

This was reported during the second intermission of the Leafs/Devils game.
If true, no wonder the Leaf's don't want Sundin back. He could have gotten them a nice package, as a parting gift and just left at the deadline.

Instead, he waits out till the end of year and handcuff's the Leafs

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Old
12-16-2008, 08:56 PM
  #30
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hope mats signs in nyr, and pulls his ego, and is out for 6 months.

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Old
12-16-2008, 08:57 PM
  #31
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Would have loved it then but looking at it now, we got lucky.

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Old
12-16-2008, 09:05 PM
  #32
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"You got to know when to hold'em, know when to fold'em, know when to walk away....."

Mats was humming this all last year.

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Old
12-16-2008, 09:47 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNasty View Post
Higgins, Grabovsky and a 1st round pick.

Deal was agreed upon by both teams at the deadline last year but Sundin refused to waive the NTC.

Simmonds reported this and nobody believed him.

Philly also offered Carter and a 1st.

This was reported during the second intermission of the Leafs/Devils game.
sigh. I guess even Mckenzie gets it wrong once in a while, or uses the wrong source (Simmons?) . I find this story very hard to believe.

Gainey's biggest deadline addition involved a 2nd round pick and a guy who will not ever play in the league. Those believing Simmons, and now by extension Mckenzie, should at least think about that.

Having said that Mckenzie is the gold standard for hockey information and it goes against instinct to not believe him.

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Old
12-16-2008, 09:58 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
I have a hard time believing it.

Gainey would move Higgins for Sundin, but not Hossa? There isn't THAT big of a difference.
What makes you think Higgins wasn't involved in the Hossa package?

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Old
12-16-2008, 10:02 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
What makes you think Higgins wasn't involved in the Hossa package?
That's what he his saying,why would Bob move Higgins for Sundin but he wouldn't move Higgins for Hossa

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Old
12-16-2008, 10:26 PM
  #36
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I think we could have made it to the Finals with that trade.

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Old
12-16-2008, 10:43 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
That's what he his saying,why would Bob move Higgins for Sundin but he wouldn't move Higgins for Hossa
because we needed a big center and not a winger

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Old
12-17-2008, 11:03 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by muzion View Post
because we needed a big center and not a winger
Sure, give up young assets and a first rounder for a big 37-year-old centre with a short expiration date?

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Old
12-17-2008, 11:12 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
It was goaltending.
No it was clutch offence. They were outshooting flyers 40-20 and losing 3-2. Yeah Price wasn't great but the team should've been burying more than 2 goals per game. It's the same shots into kneepads/logos we see now (Kovalev last night), making opposition goalies look spectacular when they're completely beat. Sundin would've been the difference against Philly as long as his hands didn't freeze up like Kovalev's, Higgins' and Andrei's too. It's like all the big scorers on the habs have been in a scoring slump since April.

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Old
12-17-2008, 11:46 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
But we might have a Cup.
Even if you add Sundin, Hossa and Campbell to last year's Hab squad, they still wouldn't have beaten Detroit.

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Old
12-17-2008, 12:39 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
I have a hard time believing it.

Gainey would move Higgins for Sundin, but not Hossa? There isn't THAT big of a difference.
he really couldn't if he had both trades on the table and was hoping both would happen

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Old
12-17-2008, 12:58 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
No it was clutch offence. They were outshooting flyers 40-20 and losing 3-2. Yeah Price wasn't great but the team should've been burying more than 2 goals per game.
Isn't it more logical to give credit to a hot goalie (Biron) than to say 18 players simultaneously lost their ability to score?

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Old
12-17-2008, 01:00 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
Even if you add Sundin, Hossa and Campbell to last year's Hab squad, they still wouldn't have beaten Detroit.
What are the next 6/49 #s? I'm gonna be rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Isn't it more logical to give credit to a hot goalie (Biron) than to say 18 players simultaneously lost their ability to score?
Not when go from an average of 1 post hit per game to 3 and 1 open net missed to 2-3. The team lost his focus, nothing more. And Biron was better then usual.

I pray Gawd every night so we can play them again, in the first round (4 vs 5).

Here... Montreal in 5 against Philadelphia. You can book it already.

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Old
12-17-2008, 01:01 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNasty View Post
It may have been Carter and a 1st for Kubina...I only caught the tail end of the Philly offer. The Leaf would have had a nice line-up if those guys would have waived the NTC clauses.
We were after Kaberle, not Kubina. And Holmgren went on record saying Carter was never on the table, so it was more likely Lupul or Umberger

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Old
12-17-2008, 01:24 PM
  #45
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Gainey and Ferguson both said there was no deal on the table, and I'll believe the GM's before I believe the insiders.

That said, if I was GM, I would have made the trade. You never know.

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Old
12-17-2008, 02:02 PM
  #46
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
But we might have a Cup.
We didn't lose because of the lack of offense.
We lost because Price collapsed, for some reason people always forget that.
Price saved us couple times vs Boston, but didn't help us at all vs Philly.
Sundin wouldn't have changed a thing.


I have a hard time believing this deal anyways. Can't understand why BG would have traded Higgins for Sundin but not for Hossa.

We weren't gonna send Higgins/Grabo/1st/Halak for Hedberg/Hossa, but we'd do it for Sundin who's not better than Hossa??..
Makes very little sense to me.
I never doubt McKenzie, but I just don't see how it makes sense considering Bob said no to Waddell.

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Old
12-17-2008, 02:05 PM
  #47
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
We were after Kaberle, not Kubina. And Holmgren went on record saying Carter was never on the table, so it was more likely Lupul or Umberger
Lupul and Umberger makes more sense if it was Kubina. You have to be the most clueless GM if you let go Kaberle when the biggest name you get in return is Lupul or Umberger.

Rejean Houle and Mike Milburry wouldn't even do that move.

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Old
12-17-2008, 02:16 PM
  #48
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Frankly, that trade would look decent in hindsight. Higgins stinks and Grabo is nothing special.

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Old
12-17-2008, 02:26 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by AH View Post
Frankly, that trade would look decent in hindsight. Higgins stinks and Grabo is nothing special.
Do you have any idea what a hockey player is?

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Old
12-17-2008, 02:30 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by zurg999 View Post
Do you have any idea what a hockey player is?
Yes I do, and Higgins is far removed from the player he was in his 1st two seasons (injury included). I am probably his biggest fan.

However, one needs to look at the player for what he brings and frankly it's not much right now. If we need defensive specialist, then let's get a real one and not a supposed top six winger parading around as one because he is a shadow of his former self.

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