HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Constructive comments

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-17-2008, 01:09 PM
  #1
HCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wild West
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,956
vCash: 500
Constructive comments

There seems to be a trend to single out individual players for the current struggles that the Habs are facing. It ranges from the Russians to the French Canadians from the rookies to the vets. Depending on who is writing the post, no one is immune from the wrath of the posters.

Solutions range from ludicrous trade proposals, to banishment to Russia or Hamilton, to outright releases. Line juggling is another common solution. Everything is questioned from the player's "hockey IQ" to his manhood. We seem to focus on what the players can't do rather than what they can do.

We need to come to the realization that this is more or less the team that we will live and die with for the rest of the year. For all the trade proposals, we rarely see significant roster changes among any of the teams. Welcome to the world of salary cap.

It would be refreshing to see some objective diagnosis of how the game is being played. Comment on what went wrong on a particular play or on what has been successful. How could the PP be improved by changing the way we set it up. Do we wait for the perfect shot or is quantity over quality a better idea right now. Is the forecheck too aggressive or too passive. Should the defensemen be pinching or should they be more cautious.

Those are the topics that would be of far more interest to me. The constant bashing of players, name calling between posters and arguing about whose talent assesment on a player is more accurate is wearing thin.

We can do better on this board. There is a lot of hockey knowledge here and that knowledge can be used in a positive manner if we put our minds to it.

HCH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2008, 01:54 PM
  #2
Gros Bill
Registered User
 
Gros Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Country: Rwanda
Posts: 5,903
vCash: 500
Good idea, but it'll probably fall on deaf ears. Seems that 90 % + of the people posting here do it to whine about players, media, other posters. We're getting less and less quality content and it's no wonder knowledgeable posters are posting less and less.

Gros Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2008, 01:58 PM
  #3
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 52,672
vCash: 725
Don't know what you're talking about when everything is Latendresse's fault....

Whitesnake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2008, 02:03 PM
  #4
Puckhead58*
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,425
vCash: 500
The people that know the game of hockey and have a little bit of understanding don't make those stupid posts. Some of us can see with our own 2 eyes and we know when a player is playing the way the should or not and then we make comments about that. Other people come in here and make claims like "Lat's isn't playing because he is a french canadian and stupid comments like that. Its a team game and if you are playing terrible hockey, you are going to sit no matter what country you're from.

There are only about a handful of posters in here that have a clue about hockey and the way the game should be played, the rest of them never played the game before, but like to talk like they know exactly whats going on and won't consider anybody elses posts or opinion. Its ridiculous.

Sometimes I think that in order to post on these boards, you need to have played organized hockey for at least 5 years and have some idea of how the game is played....LOL.

Puckhead58* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2008, 02:11 PM
  #5
Lord Horse
Next Day's News
 
Lord Horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Full City
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,400
vCash: 500
100% with you on that. This board is swimming in redundant threads about "what's missing" etc. etc. and most good threads inevitably end up there.

Panic button threads --- should be merged.
Coach/team bashing threads --- should be merged.
Player bashing threads --- should be merged.
general whining / refs / etc --- OP should be banned forever.

We'd be left with 'plottes a puck', 15 other OT thread about hockey miscellania, and 2 on-topic threads.

To the points at hand (before this becomes a thread-bashing thread).....

I think the system (and this is a dicey word) prevents too much more tinkering at 5 on 5. I'd like to see the D activate more but the forwards are really not coming back far enough to do that and it seems that they basically give the wingers a green light every game, all night.

But no big deal, really our 5 on 5 play is much improved. So long as the forwards DO come back, and DO backcheck we're OK. Carbo is dead right on this -- when the team commits to playing defense, we win hands down. When the team plays a lockdown defensive game, the scoring chances always come. Always. I actually think that they're starting to understand this, but not every player is ready to make the sacrifices that come with *fighting back* rather than just hanging about looking for passes from inside our zone.

That why Plekanec is still a worthy centre - he can and does some back. His wingers haven't always. Koivu - plays defense. Lapierre - mostly but his rushes often leave him at the other end boards so even with his speed he's a bit late at times. Lang - slower of foot but yeah, he does it quite a bit.

Our wingers - **** - our wingers just don't offer it consistantly. Higgins, check.

Tanguay (who everyone told me would play well defensively when I complained about a lack of shutdown line) doesn't. A Kost- forget it. S Kost - when he feels like it. Kovalev - more than never but he seems to 'save' his defensive play for the PK. Latendresse - not much D there period, still not quite skating fast enough to keep up.

The fourth line guys all bring it. D'agostini - looks like he's game for it too.

The D does come into the offensive zone here and there, notably Brisebois and Markov, who are the 2 you'd expect. But we have some good skaters, I'd like to see Boullion take 2 more steps toward the net before he takes his shots (he shoots regularly at least).

GOING TO THE NET. Well, there's no one doing it consistantly except for Lapierre and Kostopoulos. That's the #2 problem with our forwards. It also makes it so that they prefer to make pretty passes (one too many!) as a way to keep from entering the high OR low slot.

NOT PLAYING AGAINST THE END BOARDS. Every night I yell at the TV: "Play in the small zone!" meaning: the area behind the goal line is where the puck needs to go 90% of the time it enters the offensive zone. THAT is the place to have your battles, not the side boards. Again, the nice passing is fun and all, but the skilled forwards are going to have to dump and chase and fight down low, as low as possible. It's the #1 problem and ties in with #2 above. Until the team is willing to generate offense not from the Triangle or Overload (using these terms so younger EA Hockey fans relate better) but from Behind the Net we will be an average squard with above average players.

The plays where someone carrying the puck stops at the blueline have got to end forever. AK27, I'm looking at you. And where you carry the puck OUT of our zone and are challenged at the blueline, for pete's sake just chip it past the guy and skate like Carbo is asking you to. For the love of all things good on this Earth.

Playing behind the net is the best defense as well -- a lost puck battle still results in a long fight to get the puck back into OUR zone in a scoring position. Multiple chances to regain it. ANYTHING can happen, but if the puck starts out the entire length of the ice away from our net, it's not only the best offense but the best defense.

FACEOFFS. My only real problem with our coach. How can this team be so back at them? It makes the rest of the above unfixable when we stink it up in the faceoff circle.

What's working:

Carbo demo'd it on HNIC with Ron MacLean -- moving the puck up ice from our zone. The way the Habs use the boards, pass it up NOT through the middle of the ice, support it with multiple bodies - it's often a really beautiful thing to watch. I think some of the more creative players don't like this system, and THEY are the problem since it WORKS WELL and being "creative" be going through the middle is a turnover game. Watch our neutral zone play. With the puck, going up the boards, it's often a success. Going through the middle, dancing etc. across the red line slightly east-west, bad play.

Without the puck the forwards are often good at clogging that neutral area too, but they need to do it consistently, like I said above, commit to it as a strategy. When we don't play defense in the neutral zone the puck is often stuck in our zone because the beaten forwards just stop and don't go hammering the opposition in our own zone.

That's all I have time for now, hopefully someone else can pick up more... don't forget to put what we are going RIGHT !

Edit: to the posters above me - try saying something useful if you're so much smarter than the average bear.


Last edited by Lord Horse: 12-17-2008 at 02:16 PM.
Lord Horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2008, 02:28 PM
  #6
jnthomas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 681
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to jnthomas
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwoar View Post
But no big deal, really our 5 on 5 play is much improved. So long as the forwards DO come back, and DO backcheck we're OK. Carbo is dead right on this -- when the team commits to playing defense, we win hands down. When the team plays a lockdown defensive game, the scoring chances always come. Always. I actually think that they're starting to understand this, but not every player is ready to make the sacrifices that come with *fighting back* rather than just hanging about looking for passes from inside our zone.

That why Plekanec is still a worthy centre - he can and does some back. His wingers haven't always. Koivu - plays defense. Lapierre - mostly but his rushes often leave him at the other end boards so even with his speed he's a bit late at times. Lang - slower of foot but yeah, he does it quite a bit.

Our wingers - **** - our wingers just don't offer it consistantly. Higgins, check.

Tanguay (who everyone told me would play well defensively when I complained about a lack of shutdown line) doesn't. A Kost- forget it. S Kost - when he feels like it. Kovalev - more than never but he seems to 'save' his defensive play for the PK. Latendresse - not much D there period, still not quite skating fast enough to keep up.
Great post Bwoar, I agree with most of what you wrote but this little segment seemed to spring to me as something that could potentially be flawed. You speak of how the wingers don't come back to backcheck but stay up high in the defensive zone and appear to be floating there waiting for a pass. If I'm wrong please do correct me, but if these same wingers came back to create a numerical advantage down low, the opposing team would simply throw the puck back to the waiting D who would then have a very easy time moving in for a quality shot right down the middle (a bit like the 3rd PP goal the Canes got last night).

My understanding could be flawed, though.

jnthomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2008, 02:40 PM
  #7
Lord Horse
Next Day's News
 
Lord Horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Full City
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,400
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnthomas View Post
Great post Bwoar, I agree with most of what you wrote but this little segment seemed to spring to me as something that could potentially be flawed. You speak of how the wingers don't come back to backcheck but stay up high in the defensive zone and appear to be floating there waiting for a pass. If I'm wrong please do correct me, but if these same wingers came back to create a numerical advantage down low, the opposing team would simply throw the puck back to the waiting D who would then have a very easy time moving in for a quality shot right down the middle (a bit like the 3rd PP goal the Canes got last night).

My understanding could be flawed, though.
That's a possibility jnthomas, but the backchecking wingers don't generally end up all the way down low in our zone when they come back. The thought here is that by coming back, those dangerous passes to the opposing D in our zone can be intercepted, or that those D can be easily checked - right now there's usually at least 1 guy just watching those passes happen anyway, 20 feet away.

I figure that if they're at least in the zone, part of the play, there's a better chance of creating a turnover if the opposition comes up with the puck like you envision.

So if our D is beaten down low, the backchecking wingers will come back to check the defensemen and / or try to come at least the tops of the circles -- the centreman has no choice though, he's got to chase that puck as low as needs be and or control the centre of the ice in case of a pass that goes into the slot.

Lord Horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2008, 02:53 PM
  #8
jnthomas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 681
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to jnthomas
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwoar View Post
That's a possibility jnthomas, but the backchecking wingers don't generally end up all the way down low in our zone when they come back. The thought here is that by coming back, those dangerous passes to the opposing D in our zone can be intercepted, or that those D can be easily checked - right now there's usually at least 1 guy just watching those passes happen anyway, 20 feet away.

I figure that if they're at least in the zone, part of the play, there's a better chance of creating a turnover if the opposition comes up with the puck like you envision.

So if our D is beaten down low, the backchecking wingers will come back to check the defensemen and / or try to come at least the tops of the circles -- the centreman has no choice though, he's got to chase that puck as low as needs be and or control the centre of the ice in case of a pass that goes into the slot.

Yeah, there is a middle ground to be hit. I personally felt that they were hitting it as I don't see the Habs struggling on 5v5 too often and when they do its usually happening down low where the wingers shouldn't really be going.

What I have noticed a lot this year is, more often than not, when a D pinches in one of the forwards comes back to cover his position. Obviously when that doesn't happen its highlighted and talked about 100 times during the game, but for the most part I've found they've been pretty solid on that.

Personally the biggest knock I have so far is on the offense. I've found that the players are hesitant to throw the puck back out to the D waiting at the blue line and are far too concerned with passing to the slot area. Since most teams have figured out that the Habs like to put the puck there they close that spot forcing the guys to stay on the outside. This usually leads to bad angle shots and the "one pass too many" situtations we see. The same ailment appears when we are on the PP. The thing is I have no idea how they can fix that.

jnthomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2008, 03:05 PM
  #9
Lord Horse
Next Day's News
 
Lord Horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Full City
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,400
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnthomas View Post
What I have noticed a lot this year is, more often than not, when a D pinches in one of the forwards comes back to cover his position. Obviously when that doesn't happen its highlighted and talked about 100 times during the game, but for the most part I've found they've been pretty solid on that.
Totally right on, that's been a good spot for the team, the forwards are coming back to cover a lot - Higgins was especially good for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnthomas View Post
Personally the biggest knock I have so far is on the offense. I've found that the players are hesitant to throw the puck back out to the D waiting at the blue line and are far too concerned with passing to the slot area. Since most teams have figured out that the Habs like to put the puck there they close that spot forcing the guys to stay on the outside. This usually leads to bad angle shots and the "one pass too many" situtations we see. The same ailment appears when we are on the PP. The thing is I have no idea how they can fix that.
This is easily fixed, even more easily on the PP - get bodies into that area to compete for those passes. I see puck after puck going there to nobody. The thing is, the guys aren't FORCED to the outside, they are unwilling to fight for that ice. If Latendresse continues to go there and fight, awesome. Higgins used to do it too. Kovalev sometimes. A bigger centre like Lang gets in there too. But we need a lot of effort to break their collapse.

I do agree, a change in tendancy here and thre would help too. My preference wouldn't be to toss it back to the D, rather (since these passes generally come from the corners or side boards) I'd like to see the puck just passed around end boards or kept there in fight, directly behind the net, until forwards arrive deep, deep in the slot kissing the goalie.

Remember most of goals scored are from that area in the slot. It always amazes me when we get a 5-on-3 that so much time is spent playing the puck D to D when all our best weapons are down low. If we had a real shooter on the point I'd be all for putting the puck there but right now it's only good for changing sides on the ice to unlock certain shots / chances down low.

Lord Horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2008, 03:43 PM
  #10
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 15,174
vCash: 500
Bwoar's post covers the north-south flow of the game. However, plays often start with a faceoff in the offensive or defensive zones. Unfortunately, the Habs lack a center who can consistently win the majority of key faceoffs (like Perreault) and are forced to wait for turnovers more than half the time. This is especially important when the Habs are on the power play or are short a man or two. Lost faceoffs account for many of the opponents' shots on goal as well as for eating up time on the power play.

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2008, 03:46 PM
  #11
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17,255
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwoar View Post
NOT PLAYING AGAINST THE END BOARDS. Every night I yell at the TV: "Play in the small zone!" meaning: the area behind the goal line is where the puck needs to go 90% of the time it enters the offensive zone. THAT is the place to have your battles, not the side boards.
I'm not sure I agree with this. The Habs have never proved to be all that good at playing the down-low cycle game and generating offense from it; this is really where the Habs' lack of size up front will hurt them (though that has gotten much better lately). Last year much of their offensive success was keyed off passing, particularly diagonal passes, but in all cases using the entirety of the zone, not confining themselves to the area past the goal-line.

Like it or not, they are a speedy, passing, skilled team, so they have to generate their offense off their passing game and, especially, off the rush. They can try to grind it out down low and try to generate offense that way, but I think it doesn't play to their strengths and I think it may result in them losing the puck more in the O-zone.

Playing in the small zone is a good way to kill time if you're ahead, but I don't think the Habs can expect too many goals from that strategy, they're just not really built for it. Their advantadge is in skating and passing, and that requires space -- trying to limit the play to a small area would seem counterproductive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Unfortunately, the Habs lack a center who can consistently win the majority of key faceoffs (like Perreault) and are forced to wait for turnovers more than half the time.
Oddly, of the Habs' 4 regular centers Lang is the only one below 50%.

League-wide Lapierre is 10th in efficiency, Koivu 16th.

Lang's inefficiency certainly hurts in the power play, but it would seem odd to see faceoffs as a generalized problem with these stats. Koivu should maybe take more PP faceoffs?


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 12-17-2008 at 05:00 PM.
MathMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2008, 04:33 PM
  #12
Lord Horse
Next Day's News
 
Lord Horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Full City
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,400
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Bwoar's post covers the north-south flow of the game. However, plays often start with a faceoff in the offensive or defensive zones. Unfortunately, the Habs lack a center who can consistently win the majority of key faceoffs (like Perreault) and are forced to wait for turnovers more than half the time. This is especially important when the Habs are on the power play or are short a man or two. Lost faceoffs account for many of the opponents' shots on goal as well as for eating up time on the power play.
Totally agreed, not withstanding MathMan's stats on our centres the loss of draws is creating a good many scoring chances for the opposition. I;m not sure "waiting" for a turnover describes it accurately (at least not in the games we come to play)... but it makes me wonder: what are the key means of creating turnovers and how are we using / not using them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
I'm not sure I agree with this. The Habs have never proved to be all that good at playing the down-low cycle game and generating offense from it; this is really where the Habs' lack of size up front will hurt them (though that has gotten much better lately). Last year much of their offensive success was keyed off passing, particularly diagonal passes, but in all cases using the entirety of the zone, not confining themselves to the area past the goal-line.

Like it or not, they are a speedy, passing, skilled team, so they have to generate their offense off their passing game and, especially, off the rush. They can try to grind it out down low and try to generate offense that way, but I think it doesn't play to their strengths and I think it may result in them losing the puck more in the O-zone.

Playing in the small zone is a good way to kill time if you're ahead, but I don't think the Habs can expect too many goals from that strategy, they're just not really built for it. Their advantadge is in skating and passing, and that requires space -- trying to limit the play to a small area would seem counterproductive.
They aren't scroing for jack all off diagonal passes and full-zone cycling. This has to do with jnthomas' point about not beating the collapse and having an empty slot. There's only someone there to finish those plays 1/4 of the time and they often whiff. If our D guys are willing to take some chances this would work better. Markov has both a great diagonal pass (which Kovalev need to freaking bury) and a good sneaky backdoor move that could help.

Speed, passing and skill can get you from your own zone through the neutral zone but time and again we see that down low play is the key to offence. I don't agree with your characterization that we *must* key off the rush to be successful. Saku Koivu's office is behind the net, for example. Lapierre is dangerous in that area. Higgins used to be (and still can be) effective there. Latendresse is starting to win his battles there..... (I know we've been praying for that).... Kovalev, Plekanec & the Belarussians need to play that passing game, Tanguay does too.

So yes, that's 5 of our top 6 forwards. But neither Kostitsyn is actually all that bad down low, and both *could* be good at it if they were willing. Plekanec has taken some of Saku's moves and applied them from behind the net.

The more I consider this the more I understand how Tom K worked his way onto Plekanec's line... really for that down low offensive zone diggery.

Lord Horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2008, 04:49 PM
  #13
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17,255
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwoar View Post
They aren't scroing for jack all off diagonal passes and full-zone cycling.
I think you're misidentifying the problem. The Habs' scoring at 5-on-5 has been fine -- or, at least, close to last year's, within 6 goals of the pace, which is more than compensated by a 28-goal improvement on the defensive side of 5-on-5. The Habs are headed towards a whopping +30 goal differential on 5-on-5 alone (not counting 4-on-4 and shorthanded goals, either, so that's not pure plus-minus), so I would contend that the Habs' 5-on-5 play since the beginning of the season has been quite satisfactory in its results. It hasn't been as good over the recent losing streak, but that would be why it's a losing streak. They need to get back to what worked and compensate for the loss of their top center.

I don't think their 5-on-5 strategy or performance is an issue. The area where the scoring isn't up to snuff is the power play. I'm guessing you're not suggesting that the Habs should use a down-low strategy on the power play.

MathMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2008, 12:36 AM
  #14
Lord Horse
Next Day's News
 
Lord Horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Full City
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,400
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
I think you're misidentifying the problem. The Habs' scoring at 5-on-5 has been fine -- or, at least, close to last year's, within 6 goals of the pace, which is more than compensated by a 28-goal improvement on the defensive side of 5-on-5. The Habs are headed towards a whopping +30 goal differential on 5-on-5 alone (not counting 4-on-4 and shorthanded goals, either, so that's not pure plus-minus), so I would contend that the Habs' 5-on-5 play since the beginning of the season has been quite satisfactory in its results. It hasn't been as good over the recent losing streak, but that would be why it's a losing streak. They need to get back to what worked and compensate for the loss of their top center.

I don't think their 5-on-5 strategy or performance is an issue. The area where the scoring isn't up to snuff is the power play. I'm guessing you're not suggesting that the Habs should use a down-low strategy on the power play.
It's not that our 5-on-5 play has been poor, as you pointed out. But the part in bold says a lot that's just hanging in the air: getting "back to what worked" entails very hard work on short shifts, and most of that work is in the corners and down low. That's a solid way to compensate when a talented player is missing - dump and chase, tooth and nail hockey. Truly though, injuries are an excuse with this team and I don't care who is out. This is extremely basic hockey and it always works if you execute better than the other team.

Often it seems we go a period of two with, say, 5 or 6 shots per 20 minutes. Whether that's from one two many passes, or many awesomely blocked shots, or just plain not getting into a better shooting lane and missing, or putting the puck wide of the net..... all of these problems can be ameliorated, if not solved entirely, by getting down low and putting the puck at the goalie from in close.

The lack of shots in some games is really glaring. There's a trite hockey axiom that says that any time a player is in a scoring position and fails to hit the net, it's a mistake on their part. The forwards on the team should tape this to their mirrors.

And yes my friend, this strategy is precisely what I suggest on the powerplay. They are going to have to make it work down low until they get a shooter. Use D for pinching and switching sides. For opening the box up so guys can sneak in. But shoot sparingly from the point and never with a man right in your face. They won't be there if the puck is against the end boards.

Folks here think Andrei K has a badass slapper? He's got a wrister that's maybe as good as Kovalev's. Both have got to use that from point blank. I've been liking the 4-man overload with 1 man back at the point for extended stretches too.... this kind of thinking is what I mean for the PP -- work the puck as low as you can and shoot from as close in as you can.

The other teams will get their shorthanded breaks sometimes, sure. But what's happening a lot is this: the immense pressure that Habs bring when they put 4 guys down low, smashing the box and behind the net, is that teams are clearing in a huge hurry rather than looking up and taking the time to try a counter-rush.

The usual faceoff troubles plague our PP too.

If we're stymied by a larger, better bodychecking team, we need to make sure we use our feet continuously on the PP and that cycle will have to produce. It didn't in last year's playoffs and the league has it deciphered. When a team like Boston pins us up on the boards all night or clogs up the slot so we don't finish on all that passing, we're going to have to try new rubs.

How about this: The up-ice rush where guys support the puck through the neutral zone needs to keep up until the dot, so we overload right at the point of attack/entry with 4 guys -- as opposed to the traditional "gain the zone, spread out!" to set up a cycle. One D says on the blueline. When the puck hits the dot, everybody pivots directly at the net and the other D gets in an open spot for a relief pass or shot. Then all go to the net.

If they manage to grab the puck, we have 4 players on top of the play supporting it just as they do through the neutral zone. Again, a turnover here creates the chance for an odd-man rush the other way, but using this kind of "Phalanx" attack form gives us a chance to use the momentum of 4 guys to bust right at the net and get in the goalie's teeth.

It won't work to come through the middle doing it that way; that's the Kovalev special where he's the headman with the puck and tries to skate through 4 oppossing players while the rest of the team trails him in a futile attempt to collect his dropped pucks. It can only be attempted coming down the wing as a group and pivoting either into an open seam (if one exists by good fortune) or by bodily crashing the net en masse -- our guys will be in stride while the other team will be backing up trying to collapse. Or caught standing still.

None of this is perfect and without counters (their collapse may just stand us up anyhow), it's just an idea pulled out of my.... sleeping bag.


Last edited by Lord Horse: 12-18-2008 at 02:00 AM.
Lord Horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2008, 01:09 AM
  #15
OneSharpMarble
Registered User
 
OneSharpMarble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,722
vCash: 500
Lats has been playing like he wants to stay on the team, I am shocked and a little glimmer of hope dared to shine through all the murky clouds of disappointment he has created.

I'd really like to know where this player was for all those many many games where he sucked wind.

OneSharpMarble is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2008, 01:56 AM
  #16
Lord Horse
Next Day's News
 
Lord Horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Full City
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,400
vCash: 500
OneSharpMarble,

Threre's lots of places to talk about Latendrese. Including with backhanded and compliments and other bashing. Please do try to have a constructive hockey discussion in this thread.

I would suggest that a 21-year-old kid who became a father and plays under lots of expectations has a full bottle. Don't underestimate the change in life (and lack of sleep) that comes with a newborn.... for Guillaume it's probably quite an upheaval. That doesn't go away when the hockey season starts.

I'd really rather talk about the game though.... I think the entire world would be better off if we just let the threads about #84 or #74 or #21 or #27 be where they are.

Can you offer ideas on what Latendresse is doing differently now on the ice? How is he helping his linemates, or are they supporting him better, for instance?

Lord Horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2008, 02:28 AM
  #17
bipolarhabfan
Registered User
 
bipolarhabfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,999
vCash: 500
Good ideas on this thread. I have noticed some of the flaws as well.

Here is my own two cents. I have never played organized hockey but from what I see, at times, is a tendency to over complicate issues on the ice. Instead of utilizing simple hockey tactics and maneuvers (do not really know the terminology), the team is trying to score that beautiful goal instead of just getting pucks to the net. A more north-south instead of east-wets game would be useful. I do not know if we have the players or the hockey sense for that.

Moreover, the players need to play as a unit. They do not appear as though they are on the same page on the ice and look disjointed. It seems like there are 5 individuals on the ice trying to do their own thing rather than each individual utilizing each other to the best of their abilities. The latter would create a greater than the sum of the parts sort of situation.

bipolarhabfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2008, 02:28 AM
  #18
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,695
vCash: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hub City Hab View Post
There seems to be a trend to single out individual players for the current struggles that the Habs are facing. It ranges from the Russians to the French Canadians from the rookies to the vets. Depending on who is writing the post, no one is immune from the wrath of the posters.

Solutions range from ludicrous trade proposals, to banishment to Russia or Hamilton, to outright releases. Line juggling is another common solution. Everything is questioned from the player's "hockey IQ" to his manhood. We seem to focus on what the players can't do rather than what they can do.

We need to come to the realization that this is more or less the team that we will live and die with for the rest of the year. For all the trade proposals, we rarely see significant roster changes among any of the teams. Welcome to the world of salary cap.

It would be refreshing to see some objective diagnosis of how the game is being played. Comment on what went wrong on a particular play or on what has been successful. How could the PP be improved by changing the way we set it up. Do we wait for the perfect shot or is quantity over quality a better idea right now. Is the forecheck too aggressive or too passive. Should the defensemen be pinching or should they be more cautious.

Those are the topics that would be of far more interest to me. The constant bashing of players, name calling between posters and arguing about whose talent assesment on a player is more accurate is wearing thin.

We can do better on this board. There is a lot of hockey knowledge here and that knowledge can be used in a positive manner if we put our minds to it.
I think you've become my favourite poster.

LyricalLyricist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2008, 08:20 AM
  #19
Iwishihadacup
Registered User
 
Iwishihadacup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Quebec City
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,724
vCash: 500
Good thread Idea BTW


I think that right now, The pp lack shooters, not necessarily a booming shot from the point (anyway not every team have one). But We sure need a player that have a shoot first mentality and a player that can stay near the net to catch rebounds or deflections. I think that D'agostini can be part of the solution. The kid seems to have a tendancy to bring it to the net. Now if the skilled guys can feed him appropriately on the PP and that the daring guys can score on the chances he creates, this pp will get constantly better and will be able, like last year, to win us some games.

Right now, we miss three key elements of our team our no 1 center, our no1 goaltender, our 1st pairing D-Man. I'm pretty sure that the performances of the team will be way better when Markov will get his partner back. Not a knock on Gorges because he is easily at equal with Hammer now in term of reliability But it seems that MArkov prefer playing with Komi and its ok like that

Iwishihadacup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2008, 08:28 AM
  #20
HCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wild West
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,956
vCash: 500
Great comments. I knew there was a lot of knowledge lurking around these boards but this is even better than I expected.

For my part I would like to see the wingers come back a little deeper into our own end, especially when our defenseman has the puck behind his net. Circle back a little deeper and be moving forward to receive a pass. A stationary target standing five feet from the defenseman is too easy to defend.

On defense, I would like to see a little more hustle into the corners by a couple of our players. Gorges does it well. There is no hesitation, he always tries to be the first guy to the puck even if it means absorbing a stiff hit. That kind of play makes it tougher on the opposing forwards compared to waiting for them to get the puck and then trying to poke it away from them.

I would also like to see some short quick passes through the neutral zone. The give and go seems to be a lost art. The long bombs are good once in a while but they are a low percentage play. Just like in football, use them once in a while to keep the defense honest but they shouldn't be your bread and butter.

It would also be interesting to use a couple of different power play strategies. One could employ the tic-tac-toe passing used so effectively last year. Lull the PK into complacency and then use the cross-ice back door pass. The second group would be the go-to-the-net, use the bomb from the point, screen the goaltender, bang in the rebound type of unit. We have the personnel for both.

It would give the opposing PK something to think about. They would have a couple of different approaches to deal with. And it could hardly be less effective than what we are doing now.

HCH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2008, 08:45 AM
  #21
zx81
Registered User
 
zx81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,534
vCash: 500
Habs problem is the same than last year, the year before and the 3 other years before.

The forwards leave the zone too quickly and are standing immobile at the offensive blue line.

I just can't understand this behavior.
What the forwards are really thinking ?
If you are receiving the puck while not skating you can't enter the offensive zone with speed. Very simple physics here

How many times did we see Markov coming back into the defensive zone because he had no intelligent pass option ?

I said it for years : Offense is built in the defensive zone with a coordinated transition to the center ice.

zx81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2008, 08:47 AM
  #22
ReVeuF
Registered User
 
ReVeuF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,038
vCash: 500
I would like to see on our PP : the Defensemen shoot from the point and all 3 forwards go to the net for rebounds and put pressure on the opposite team. Also a fast passing tic-tac-toe ending up with a 3 forwards crashing net.

What i do not want to see : puck dump with one man forecheck on the PP, the puck usually end up in our zone at the end.

ReVeuF is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:51 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.