HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Rangers farm still disrespected

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-19-2008, 07:17 AM
  #1
Duponttime*
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 511
vCash: 500
Rangers farm still disrespected

I was watching some show on the NHL.com. Just recently was able to get it. Some dude with a beard was hosting it with Jim Dowd. You guys probably know his name. His exact words were about the WolfPack, "There isn't a lot down there right now."

When will the anti-New York garbage stop with these media people in hockey? You could easily make the point that the Rangers have two top 4, NHL defense talents in Hartford in Sanguinetti and Sauer who aren't very far away. Last time I looked, I didn't see teams bringing up young defenseman who can actually play DEFENSE. There are a lot of young defenseman in the league and quite honestly, 80% of them are awful. They aren't on the same planet as a Staal or Girardi. On top of that you have a kid in Anisimov who probably projects as a really good, two way, 3rd line center and is almost ready for the NHL. Dupont is starting to figure out the AHL and it shouldn't be long till his scoring really starts to pick up. I definitely think he will be an NHL player.

To me, if you have 3 players in your AHL system that project to be significant NHL players, you have quite a bit in your farm system. I always look at it like this. If you can find, one good young player a year from your farm that plays in the NHL, your team will never be that old.

Duponttime* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 07:40 AM
  #2
TheRedressor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Country: United Nations
Posts: 3,703
vCash: 500
Frankly Dowd isn't wrong.

Who is down their?

With the exception of Anisimov, Sanguinetti and possibly Sauer I don't really see much top 9 talent.

Perhaps Dupont or Pyatt become a nice 4th line player, but frankly they are a dime a dozen.

Hartford has taken a major hit with the influx of youth that has made the Rangers from down there.

TheRedressor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 07:57 AM
  #3
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,300
vCash: 500
what really is down on the farm? How many potential top six forwards? How many potential top 4 defensemen? Of course, I do hear you in a way because these guys look at prospects as being #1 or #2 picks in recent drafts. Undrafted guys, guys received in trades for next to nothing and other guys that sometimes just spring up out of nowhere because of a scout's/GM's dilgent work are counted as zero (Girardi would've been a zero because of his undrafted status to most "expert" hockey "analysts" - and what he is is debateable, but it's not zero).

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 08:01 AM
  #4
MortUWary
Registered Loser
 
MortUWary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 1,192
vCash: 500
To piggy-back on what TheRedressor said, the Rangers have graduated Dubinsky, Dawes, Callahan and Korpikoski at forward and Staal and Girardi on defense in the past three seasons. Our most NHL-ready defenseman, Ivan Baranka, left North America to play in Europe this season. To make matters worse, our top offensive prospect and recent first round pick tragically passed away.

Outside of Anisimov and Grachev, our "system" is vacant of any top 6 forwards (it's too early to tell on Weise, Stepan and Doyle.) At least on D, we have Sanguinetti, Sauer and Del Zotto, who rate as potential top-4 defensemen. Potter, while solid for Hartford, looks like a bottom pairing kind of guy. 2008 draft choices Kundratek and Gaulton are two question marks, but we'd be lucky if one pans out.

All in all, I was mildly surprised to be in the bottom third of Hockey's Future's system audit, but objectively see the Rangers farm system no better than the 15-20 range of the NHL's prospect pools right now.

MortUWary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 08:03 AM
  #5
Das Uber
Kitten Mittens
 
Das Uber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Omicron Persei 8
Country: United States
Posts: 23,798
vCash: 500
If I remember correctly, it was Don La Greca who said that, not Jimmy Dowd. He's a Devils fan, but he's pretty professional so I don't think he was trying to bash them. Besides, he does Rangers games on the radio all the time.

Das Uber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 08:04 AM
  #6
Duponttime*
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRedressor View Post
Frankly Dowd isn't wrong.

Who is down their?

With the exception of Anisimov, Sanguinetti and possibly Sauer I don't really see much top 9 talent.

Perhaps Dupont or Pyatt become a nice 4th line player, but frankly they are a dime a dozen.

Hartford has taken a major hit with the influx of youth that has made the Rangers from down there.
Again, it's not realistic to add 2 to 4 top 9 talents a year. No team does that. You try to add one good, young player a year. If you can do that, it's good. Especially if you can add defenseman. Plus, you have Grachev and Del Zotto coming down the pipe and I like the kid Stepan a lot.

I also don't think players like Dupont are anywhere near a dime a dozen. You're talking about a 6'2, 200 pound kid with great leadership who has a lot of game on both sides of the ice. I don't think people really look at the complete garbage that other teams have on the 3rd and 4th lines. Other than Lundqvist, one of the biggest reasons this team wins games is because the 3rd and 4th lines don't let up even strength goals very often when they are out there. A lot of teams don't have players on there lower lines that can play defense. A good example is Philly. They have a lot of forwards who can score but they are a train wreck defensively.

Duponttime* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 08:05 AM
  #7
Duponttime*
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 511
vCash: 500
If you read my post I never said Dowd said it. I said the other guy did. You also have to look around the league to see there are a ton of players who were never thought of as top line talents and became that after 3 to 4 years in the NHL. Dubinsky was not thought of as this top end talent. Now, despite his scoring problems, media people always compliment him. Did any media person think Lundqvist was a franchise goalie early on? Or that Girardi would become one of the better young defenseman in the game? Or that Callahan would become one of the leading hitters in the NHL who will probably chip in 15+ goals?

I always go back to the fact that the media never has given the Ranger farm system credit. Dubinsky, Girardi, Callahan, Korpikoski, these guys were all ignored by the media for more flashy prospects as were many of the Sabres prospects. Media guys believe hype. Two way players who project as guys who will take 3-4 years to develop in the NHL never get much attention. Especially if they play for the Rangers.


Last edited by Duponttime*: 12-19-2008 at 08:10 AM.
Duponttime* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 08:16 AM
  #8
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,441
vCash: 500
It's not necessarily untrue, but the timing is kind of weak, since like people said, the Rangers just graduated a lot of pretty good players in the past couple of years.

Levitate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 08:35 AM
  #9
squishy
Registered User
 
squishy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,149
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duponttime View Post
I was watching some show on the NHL.com. Just recently was able to get it. Some dude with a beard was hosting it with Jim Dowd. You guys probably know his name. His exact words were about the WolfPack, "There isn't a lot down there right now."

When will the anti-New York garbage stop with these media people in hockey? You could easily make the point that the Rangers have two top 4, NHL defense talents in Hartford in Sanguinetti and Sauer who aren't very far away. Last time I looked, I didn't see teams bringing up young defenseman who can actually play DEFENSE. There are a lot of young defenseman in the league and quite honestly, 80% of them are awful. They aren't on the same planet as a Staal or Girardi. On top of that you have a kid in Anisimov who probably projects as a really good, two way, 3rd line center and is almost ready for the NHL. Dupont is starting to figure out the AHL and it shouldn't be long till his scoring really starts to pick up. I definitely think he will be an NHL player.

To me, if you have 3 players in your AHL system that project to be significant NHL players, you have quite a bit in your farm system. I always look at it like this. If you can find, one good young player a year from your farm that plays in the NHL, your team will never be that old.
He's absolutely correct about the part in bold. When you look at other teams in the AHL, there are plenty that have more and higher-skilled talent. It's pointless to bring up Girardi and Staal in response to his comment -- they're not in Hartford right now. Sanguinetti has a long was to go. Whether Sauer will ever be a top 4 remains to be seen. You yourself said our top prospect projects to a good 3rd line guy. There is no one in Hartford who's a lock for a top 6 role. This year's team has nothing on those of the past couple years.

As someone who's seen all but a handful of Hartford games, I think LaGrecca was completely justified in his comment. There is not much in Hartford right now. Besides, he works for the Rangers, claiming he's got anti-Rangers bias is silly.

squishy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 08:38 AM
  #10
MortUWary
Registered Loser
 
MortUWary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 1,192
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by squishy View Post
As someone who's seen all but a handful of Hartford game, I think LaGrecca was completely justified in his comments. Besides, he works for the Rangers, claiming he's got anti-Rangers bias is silly.
That (along with your preceeding paragraph) hits the nail on the head, squish. Agreed completely.

MortUWary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 08:39 AM
  #11
LamoTheKid
Registered User
 
LamoTheKid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 1,411
vCash: 500
what about Parenteu (sp?)

I thought he was great in camp and Id like to see him get a shot if someone goes down this season.

LamoTheKid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 08:39 AM
  #12
z1co80
The Incredible Hank
 
z1co80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Scotland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 4,901
vCash: 50
the truth hurts

z1co80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 08:42 AM
  #13
HockeyBasedNYC
Registered User
 
HockeyBasedNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Here
Country: United States
Posts: 12,867
vCash: 500
I see the Rangers prospect situation greatly changed since the 2005-2007 "era".

The tragic loss of Cherepanov took the biggest chunk out, and all of the graduates are pretty much in the NHL. Outside of Sangs, Del Zotto and Anisimov - i dont really think you have legit NHL talent there.

I mean sure, theres Moore and Byers, Pyatt, Parenteau, Grachev, Sauer and Dupont. Stepan. But none of those other guys (in Hartford specifically) honestly scream top minute talent, not yet at least. The Rangers have been breeding these kids over the course of 5 years and IMO all of those that belong here are here, the next wave of prospects is thin, and it is what it is.

The Goaltending depth in the organization is terrible (but you can afford that with Hank, but its still a weakness nonetheless) on top of it all.

Hes not that far off in his assessment. I think a lot of Rangers fans have had a mindset the last few seasons that the Rangers have a superior prospect pool, and for a while they did. A lot has changed and this upcoming draft is going to be an important one IMO to get a new wave of blood in here. Top flite talent is no where to be seen. I think its time to try and get 2 first rounders this year if possible, or at least take a shot at a higher pick, especially since A.C. is unfortunately no longer with us.

HockeyBasedNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 08:55 AM
  #14
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 22,905
vCash: 500
Awards:
The Rangers AHL lineup, in terms of prospects, is average at best. It's not at all inaccurate to say that there isn't a whole lot down there right now.

__________________

It's just pain.
nyr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 09:03 AM
  #15
Larry Melnyk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Gloomsville, USA
Posts: 4,376
vCash: 500
I was very surprised and impressed by the responses in this post. No homer blinders on at all....Other then at defense, the cupboard is pretty bare...The deficeit at top end (top two line) or skilled forwards is extremley startling and will hurt big time....This wouldn't be thet bad if any of the young forwards that have "graduated" like Dawes, Cally, Pruchs, Korp really have the chance to be all that much, but all are very limited..Goes without saying how much the loss of Cherry hurt this organization..

Larry Melnyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 09:04 AM
  #16
TheRedressor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Country: United Nations
Posts: 3,703
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I see the Rangers prospect situation greatly changed since the 2005-2007 "era".

The tragic loss of Cherepanov took the biggest chunk out, and all of the graduates are pretty much in the NHL. Outside of Sangs, Del Zotto and Anisimov - i dont really think you have legit NHL talent there.

I mean sure, theres Moore and Byers, Pyatt, Parenteau, Grachev, Sauer and Dupont. Stepan. But none of those other guys (in Hartford specifically) honestly scream top minute talent, not yet at least. The Rangers have been breeding these kids over the course of 5 years and IMO all of those that belong here are here, the next wave of prospects is thin, and it is what it is.

The Goaltending depth in the organization is terrible (but you can afford that with Hank, but its still a weakness nonetheless) on top of it all.

Hes not that far off in his assessment. I think a lot of Rangers fans have had a mindset the last few seasons that the Rangers have a superior prospect pool, and for a while they did. A lot has changed and this upcoming draft is going to be an important one IMO to get a new wave of blood in here. Top flite talent is no where to be seen. I think its time to try and get 2 first rounders this year if possible, or at least take a shot at a higher pick, especially since A.C. is unfortunately no longer with us.

I would not discredit Grachev. He is going to be an excellent top 6 winger in this league with a powerfoward mold.

TheRedressor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 09:04 AM
  #17
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,807
vCash: 500
Awards:
Not sure how they're being disrespected. And I'm not sure how it was being said. If he was talking about immediate help, then there's not a lot there. But consider this:

- They have sorely lacked depth when it comes top six forward prospects. Losing Cherepanov really hurt there.

- A lot of their top prospects are young and need time (Anisimov, Grachev, Del Zotto).

- The farm system has already produced Dawes, Korpikoski, Staal, Girardi, Dubinsky and Callahan. And that's 6 guys that need to be replaced

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 09:06 AM
  #18
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Das Uber View Post
If I remember correctly, it was Don La Greca who said that, not Jimmy Dowd. He's a Devils fan, but he's pretty professional so I don't think he was trying to bash them. Besides, he does Rangers games on the radio all the time.
He is very unbiased.

He also covers the Rangers. He does Rangers radio play by play.

Does pre and post game shows.

And honestly he was right anyway, as people have already mentioned. We graduated a handful of Pack players over the last couple of years. And Beyond Anisimov and Sanguinetti we don't have any locks for the NHL down there.

In Junior we have GREAT talents in Grachev and Del Zotto. But they are only 18 years old right now.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 09:11 AM
  #19
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 22,905
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
He is very unbiased.

He also covers the Rangers. He does Rangers radio play by play.

Does pre and post game shows.

And honestly he was right anyway, as people have already mentioned. We graduated a handful of Pack players over the last couple of years. And Beyond Anisimov and Sanguinetti we don't have any locks for the NHL down there.

In Junior we have GREAT talents in Grachev and Del Zotto. But they are only 18 years old right now.
That pretty much sums it up. Seems like a bit of an overreaction by the TC.

nyr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 09:16 AM
  #20
Jarkko Immonen
#42 Artem Anisimov
 
Jarkko Immonen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 3,111
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Jarkko Immonen
Jordan Owens = future NHL player for a team other than the Rangers

dude has skills

Jarkko Immonen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 09:21 AM
  #21
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,807
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarkko Immonen View Post
Jordan Owens = future NHL player for a team other than the Rangers

dude has skills
OK, I'll bight. Why any team other than the Rangers?

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 09:28 AM
  #22
Jarkko Immonen
#42 Artem Anisimov
 
Jarkko Immonen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 3,111
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Jarkko Immonen
I mean that's only if the philosophy doesn't change anytime soon. They like to fill their holes by signing free agents, we all know that.

And now I know Korpikoski isn't playing out of this world but I finally was able to watch the last few Rangers games and I can't believe this guy is stuck playing 10 minutes a game on the 4th line.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong. Young players just don't seem to get their shots all that often with this organization.

Jarkko Immonen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 09:28 AM
  #23
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,441
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
This wouldn't be thet bad if any of the young forwards that have "graduated" like Dawes, Cally, Pruchs, Korp really have the chance to be all that much, but all are very limited..Goes without saying how much the loss of Cherry hurt this organization..
Kind of depends on what you view as "limited" in my opinion. I think Dawes has 20+ goal, 50+ point potential if he'll just kind of get his head on straight. He was on pace for that last year, and in general, should be considered a possible 2nd liner. He's been disappointing this year, but I think he's got more skill and scoring ability than he's shown this year. He's not a "wow" prospect in any way, but if he can figure that last piece out, I think he could be a solid 2nd liner for whatever team he ends up on

Callahan is also on pace for about 20 goals, and I think with a few more years and better linemates, Korpikoski could be about the same.

Obviously I'm projecting a lot, and like I said, these aren't "wow" prospects, nor are they sure fire prospects, but there is skill there at least.

At any rate, I'm kind of splitting hairs. I guess my point is that I think some of these guys actually do have some skill and upside to them, it's just kind of a crapshoot whether they really get there. Compared to other teams that have guys you pretty much know will at least be second liners.

But yeah, losing Cherepanov hurt a lot. I think this year was originally kind of a re-organization year, and the Rangers didn't really feel like they were going to compete for the cup or something, but in a few years they'd have Zherdev and Cherepanov as a very solid one two punch down the right wing, some solid centers, and I dunno about left wing but maybe they were hoping Dawes was going to do better than he's doing this year. Losing Cherepanov really hurt not just the prospect depth, but the Rangers depth as well.

So, I think it'll be pretty important for them to pick a guy this year who will end up being a top line player. Not necessarily easy when they'll probably be picking the last half of the draft, but I think they gotta take a chance on one of those guys everyone knows has a ton of talent

Levitate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 09:30 AM
  #24
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,441
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarkko Immonen View Post
I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong. Young players just don't seem to get their shots all that often with this organization.
That's kind of dumb to say considering Callahan, Dubinsky, Staal, Girardi, and Dawes are all getting important minutes. Tyutin also came up through the system. Prucha as well until he fell off the map for various reasons.

Korpikoski will get more icetime as things get sorted out, I think.

Levitate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 09:32 AM
  #25
HockeyBasedNYC
Registered User
 
HockeyBasedNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Here
Country: United States
Posts: 12,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRedressor View Post
I would not discredit Grachev. He is going to be an excellent top 6 winger in this league with a powerfoward mold.
Notice i said in Hartford specifically, and the word "yet"

The same could be said for Stepan too...

HockeyBasedNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:11 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.