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Rangers farm still disrespected

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Old
12-19-2008, 09:35 AM
  #26
nyr2k2
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
That's kind of dumb to say considering Callahan, Dubinsky, Staal, Girardi, and Dawes are all getting important minutes. Tyutin also came up through the system. Prucha as well until he fell off the map for various reasons.

Korpikoski will get more icetime as things get sorted out, I think.
Yeah, the whole "we don't give the kids a chance" argument has really lost all credibility the past few seasons here.

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12-19-2008, 09:35 AM
  #27
Jarkko Immonen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
That's kind of dumb to say considering Callahan, Dubinsky, Staal, Girardi, and Dawes are all getting important minutes. Tyutin also came up through the system. Prucha as well until he fell off the map for various reasons.

Korpikoski will get more icetime as things get sorted out, I think.
Yeah, I know of all the players that got their shot and stuck with the Rangers. I've seen them all develop. I'm kinda pointing to a certain type of player. I guess I'm just still irked over Immonen getting the door shut on him.

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12-19-2008, 09:39 AM
  #28
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I'm not totally sure why Immonen wasn't given a good chance, but yes it could just be they felt his skating and mobility weren't up to snuff and the rest of his abilities didn't make up for it. The one thing in the Rangers defense, in my opinion, would be that you'd think some other team would have tried to pick him up if the Rangers were just being stupid about him.

edit: And I know I really shouldn't, but I'm hanging a lot of hopes on Stepan panning out to be a solid offensive contributor in the future. I don't know why, I guess I just figure that one of these skilled guys the Rangers pick up after the 1st round and who go to college will have to pan out eventually

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12-19-2008, 09:43 AM
  #29
Jarkko Immonen
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Bleh, I'm not attacking you but I don't want to hear that complaint again. Biggest piece of hogwash ever. Especially since the guy put up 6 points in 14 games the second time he got called up. Ah well, I take my comments back about the Rangers (*gasp* -- someone is wrong on the internet). I just hope a guy like Owens get his shot somewhere in the league, the guy is a high energy player with offensive skills.

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12-19-2008, 09:47 AM
  #30
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6 points in 14 games isn't that spectacular if the team feels you can't keep up in other areas. I also think that 3 of those came in one game where he got 3 assists and then didn't do much for awhile afterwards

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12-19-2008, 09:47 AM
  #31
Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Kind of depends on what you view as "limited" in my opinion. I think Dawes has 20+ goal, 50+ point potential if he'll just kind of get his head on straight. He was on pace for that last year, and in general, should be considered a possible 2nd liner. He's been disappointing this year, but I think he's got more skill and scoring ability than he's shown this year. He's not a "wow" prospect in any way, but if he can figure that last piece out, I think he could be a solid 2nd liner for whatever team he ends up on

Callahan is also on pace for about 20 goals, and I think with a few more years and better linemates, Korpikoski could be about the same.

Obviously I'm projecting a lot, and like I said, these aren't "wow" prospects, nor are they sure fire prospects, but there is skill there at least.
I like Cally alot, but I see him as a good 3rd liner. I think that is Korpikoski's ceiling too eventhough I know I'm in the minority in feeling unimpressed with the guy...Dawes is a hit or miss...I think he CAN be a 2nd liner if everything breaks right and he's totally committed...But just as easily for him to be a floating, inconsistent quasi-sniper who can't be counted on consistently on a scoring line and doesn;t have the game for the other lines....Prucha, well, better left unsaid for now...And I hope the guy I was pretty sure of---DUBINSKY--works things out..

As for the kids in Hartford, I heard an interview from the Head Ranger scout (or whatever) Gord Clarke in September and they see Anisimov as a NHL 3rd liner and hope Dupont can reach that level also.

So, agree 100%, that we gotta grab a top end forward (or two) in the Draft this coming year and why I wanted to do the same last year (Del ZOrro is fine but with Sangy, Staal, and Saurer?) eveb before the CHerry tragedy..

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12-19-2008, 09:50 AM
  #32
Jarkko Immonen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
6 points in 14 games isn't that spectacular if the team feels you can't keep up in other areas. I also think that 3 of those came in one game where he got 3 assists and then didn't do much for awhile afterwards
It's good enough to deserve another look in my opinion. I just checked the game log stats of his and 4 came in two back to back games and then he went silent before finally getting sent back down. Didn't help that the Rangers lost 6 in a row during that time though.

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12-19-2008, 09:54 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
I like Cally alot, but I see him as a good 3rd liner.
In general I agree...though I think he'll find ways to score more goals than anticipated. He seems like he goes on little streaks here and there.

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I think that is Korpikoski's ceiling too eventhough I know I'm in the minority in feeling unimpressed with the guy...
I'm basically really impressed with everything Korpikoski does, except when it comes to scoring points. Though I also think he's spending too much time being the guy on his line who is always chasing pucks, battling on the boards, and stuff like that. If he focused more on being the guy who made things happen, I think he'd do better. So, I'm kind of up in the air on him in that I think he has the tools to do well, but it might require him not feeling like he has to be the grinder all the time and actually taking some more offensive chances

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As for the kids in Hartford, I heard an interview from the Head Ranger scout (or whatever) Gord Clarke in September and they see Anisimov as a NHL 3rd liner and hope Dupont can reach that level also.
Yeah I'm not sure about that quote...it's a little weird. Is Clarke just downplaying Anisimov? Is it because he only sees a third line center spot open in the future? Or is it a real talent analysis. Anisimov seems like he has more skill than that, but maybe they think it wont' translate. Hard to say. I think he has the potential to be a top 6 player, but I'm not a pro scout either.

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So, agree 100%, that we gotta grab a top end forward (or two) in the Draft this coming year and why I wanted to do the same last year (Del ZOrro is fine but with Sangy, Staal, and Saurer?) eveb before the CHerry tragedy..
Yeah I was iffy on that too...I mean, I like picking up really skilled players like Del Zotta, and last years draft was supposed to be real defensemen heavy and not so much on the forwards

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12-19-2008, 09:55 AM
  #34
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One guy overlooked is Hagelin. Watching him at Michigan this year screams top 6 upside. The guy is pretty damn good.

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12-19-2008, 09:57 AM
  #35
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I haven't seen a lot of Hagelin, but for some reason, he strikes me as one of those guys who will look real good in college by the time he graduates, but be a third liner at best in the NHL.

Hopefully I'm proven wrong

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12-19-2008, 09:57 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
One guy overlooked is Hagelin. Watching him at Michigan this year screams top 6 upside. The guy is pretty damn good.
I loved Helminen too, seems like Hagelin is going down the same road through Michigan.

Who knows.

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12-19-2008, 10:03 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I loved Helminen too, seems like Hagelin is going down the same road through Michigan.

Who knows.
Hagelin is much more effective, overall. Watched both and Hagelin would skate circles around Dwight.

Although I still consider Helminen a NHL prospect.

He actually got a few games with the Canes this year.

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12-19-2008, 10:07 AM
  #38
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As it's been said by many already, he's not off-base here.

How many bad things can you say about our prospect development over the last couple years? While we've made a few blunders (2003 draft), we've filled quite a few spots in our line-up with home-grown players. Having an abundance of bottom-six players isn't necessarily a bad thing. Those players are still important to an organization.

Still, look who we've produced in just the last few seasons:

Dubinsky - A 2nd line, perhaps top-line center.

Staal - Potentially a top-pairing, shut-down D-man with perhaps some untapped offensive potential.

Girardi - Easily a top-4, perhaps even a #3 D-man. Plays physical and has the ability to play the point on the PP.

Callahan - Exceptional 3rd line guy with the ability to contribute offensively. Plays a stellar two-way game.

Dawes - Great shot but has lost some confidence, seems to be coming around again. Has top-six potential.

Prucha - Pure goal scorer, unfortunately has hit the skids as of late.

Lundqvist - Franchise goaltender and Vezina candidate. Enough said.

That's a top-line center, franchise goalie, two potential top-pairing d-men, a hell of a 3rd liner and a 2nd line winger. Really not too shabby considering our drafting history.

Hartford is light on top-level prospects, but we do have a few in the pipe. Del Zotto, Grachev, Doyle and Kundratek are all playing very, very well this year. Stepan is having a solid Freshman year at Wisconsin and is getting great reviews from his coaches there. Weise made the case for himself in camp and got promoted to Hartford and Gaulton has potential steal written all over him. You absolutely have to be impressed with our drafting this year.

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12-19-2008, 10:16 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Jarkko Immonen View Post
I mean that's only if the philosophy doesn't change anytime soon. They like to fill their holes by signing free agents, we all know that.

And now I know Korpikoski isn't playing out of this world but I finally was able to watch the last few Rangers games and I can't believe this guy is stuck playing 10 minutes a game on the 4th line.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong. Young players just don't seem to get their shots all that often with this organization.
There's six guys from the farm playing meaningful minutes...

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12-19-2008, 10:18 AM
  #40
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haha from the guy whose username is Duponttime.

That wasn't disrespect, that was the truth.

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12-19-2008, 10:24 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by LamoTheKid View Post
what about Parenteu (sp?)

I thought he was great in camp and Id like to see him get a shot if someone goes down this season.
PAP really isn't a prospect. He's a good career minor leaguer who might see a half season or a season and a half in the NHL, similar to an Alexandre Giroux.

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12-19-2008, 10:28 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
...While we've made a few blunders (2003 draft)
Now that Huge Specimen has been traded you're not supposed to bring this up any more! My therapist told me I need to close that book and move on. It was already hard enough watching Getzlaf the other night.....geeze.

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Originally Posted by Jarkko Immonen View Post
It's good enough to deserve another look in my opinion. I just checked the game log stats of his and 4 came in two back to back games and then he went silent before finally getting sent back down. Didn't help that the Rangers lost 6 in a row during that time though.
The Rangers started 5 rookies last year. You can't do that every year unless you're in a full rebuild. Even in a full rebuild you'd be hard pressed to do it.

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12-19-2008, 10:38 AM
  #43
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haha from the guy whose username is Duponttime.

That wasn't disrespect, that was the truth.
If I thought you had one ounce of hockey knowledge I'd probably respond more. I really don't put much into what 90% of Rangers fans say on prospects. All they have done from day one is bash Dawes because they don't have A CLUE that it tends to take most forwards 3 to 4 years to figure out how to produce offensively at the NHL level if they actually attempt to play defense.

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12-19-2008, 10:41 AM
  #44
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to bring it all back a bit, the quote was "there's not a lot down there now" - or something to that effect. Citing guys in the system, Del Zotto, as well as guys who are no longer in the sytem (Chere). And the graduated prospects doesn't mean much to his current statement.

At any point in time you'd like a number of decent prospects in your AHL system. If two graduated last year, you hope two would've graduated from juniors or stepped it up after a first year in the AHL. The concept of replenishment shouldn't be lost.

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12-19-2008, 10:42 AM
  #45
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Another important point is that the interview apparently was in regards to Hartford - not the entire system, but the minor league team specifically.

Hard to argue against that point. I mean, if I look at the roster, the only ones I see there that have solid meaningfully contributing NHL potential IMO are Anisimov, Sanguinetti, Sauer and Potter - with upside in the order listed. Dupont and the injured Byers are on the fence for run-of-the-mill 4th line grinders (which is too bad for Byers, because I think he would've been in the first category before blowing out his knee). I guess Wiikman and Moore are other possibilities, but most likely for other teams given their borderline skill and the guys in front of them. Moore in particular is starting to remind me of Garth Murray.

Now, if you expand the view to include the entire system of prospects, I think the view is a lot brighter than what we see in HFD (or where HF ranked us last week). Heck, even the guys that other posters expected to be the skill players in HFD this year (Hillier, Zaborsky) didn't make the cut and are playing in the ECHL. Don't know if they'll recover enough to resume the possible 2nd line trajectory that some had hoped for out of them (I doubt it), but it's possible.

The Rangers' best quality assets (outside of Anisimov and Sanguinetti) are all not yet playing professional hockey.* If we were doing one of our polls for prospect rankings right now, I would put Grachev, Del Zotto, Hagelin, Stepan and Doyle above everyone other than the AA and Sangs. And Gaulton (who I think will recover and surprise a lot of people - he was drafted immediately behind Del Zotto and Pietrangelo, well ahead of Bogosian in the OHL draft) and Kundratek would be somewhere in there with Sauer and Potter.

So the good news is that there is real quality (in this poster's uneducated opinion) in teh system. The bad news is that it's all at least two years away from making a meaningful contribution to the AHL or NHL team - and hence HFD is pretty bare of prospects and may be for another year as well.

Having said all of that, I do agree with other posters that, given the significant number of young forwards with medium skills on the big club and the type/position of players developing in the system, this organization needs to make the 2009 draft all about rolling the dice to get 1-2 high end skilled forwards - both by trading up wherever possible and by taking the high-risk/high-reward types over the safe 3rd line potential types whenever presented the choice.

*One thing to remember is that we still hold the rights to Kveton and Baranka, who are playing professional hockey - just outside of the traditional NHL feeder system. If either of them were to decide to come back to North America, they both appear to be players that could play meaningful roles on an NHL team.

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12-19-2008, 10:43 AM
  #46
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Watching this board for a while, all you usually see is users whining about how our prospects stink and aren't high end talents. Yet after all of that, in just the past few years we have an elite young goalie, two high end young defenseman and probably a high end center. We also have some high end role player types in Callahan and Korpikoski not to mention traded for one using our farm in Sjostrom. People tend to forget that a hockey team has 4 LINES. Your goal is to build elite 3rd and 4th lines also. I think this team is well on there way to doing that. You can always sign UFA's for your top 2 lines. In fact, they already did that.

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12-19-2008, 11:02 AM
  #47
Larry Melnyk
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Still, look who we've produced in just the last few seasons:

Dubinsky - A 2nd line, perhaps top-line center.

Staal - Potentially a top-pairing, shut-down D-man with perhaps some untapped offensive potential.

Girardi - Easily a top-4, perhaps even a #3 D-man. Plays physical and has the ability to play the point on the PP.

Callahan - Exceptional 3rd line guy with the ability to contribute offensively. Plays a stellar two-way game.

Dawes - Great shot but has lost some confidence, seems to be coming around again. Has top-six potential.

Prucha - Pure goal scorer, unfortunately has hit the skids as of late.

Lundqvist - Franchise goaltender and Vezina candidate. Enough said.

That's a top-line center, franchise goalie, two potential top-pairing d-men, a hell of a 3rd liner and a 2nd line winger. Really not too shabby considering our drafting history.

.
Gotta remeber that for this list of players, you have go back 8 years to the draft of 2000. Anyway you look at it, a pretty poor result...especially given how worthless Prucha has been for about a year and a half and the inconsistencies and question marks of Dawes....

But, I do agree that we have done a pretty good job with the The King and the D-men--Staal, Girardi, Tyutin--traded for Zherdev, Sangy, Saurer, Derl Zorro...

Still, with where the game is going, the lack of any highly skilled prospects for the top 2 lines is a huge void..

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12-19-2008, 11:54 AM
  #48
Anthony Mauro
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Originally Posted by Duponttime View Post
If I thought you had one ounce of hockey knowledge I'd probably respond more. I really don't put much into what 90% of Rangers fans say on prospects. All they have done from day one is bash Dawes because they don't have A CLUE that it tends to take most forwards 3 to 4 years to figure out how to produce offensively at the NHL level if they actually attempt to play defense.
So, Ranger fan, yes/no?

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12-19-2008, 11:59 AM
  #49
Anthony Mauro
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Originally Posted by Duponttime View Post
Watching this board for a while, all you usually see is users whining about how our prospects stink and aren't high end talents. Yet after all of that, in just the past few years we have an elite young goalie, two high end young defenseman and probably a high end center. We also have some high end role player types in Callahan and Korpikoski not to mention traded for one using our farm in Sjostrom. People tend to forget that a hockey team has 4 LINES. Your goal is to build elite 3rd and 4th lines also. I think this team is well on there way to doing that. You can always sign UFA's for your top 2 lines. In fact, they already did that.
First, probably's don't cut it. Anisimov is looking good, lets see him through to the NHL though. That's what people argue. Most of our weight, Lundqvist, Staal, etc is defensive. We do have some work to do with talented forwards.

Second, what the heck is a high end role player? That's like saying you went out to get a Bentley but ended up getting a High End Kia. If anything like that even exists, I'm pretty sure it would be in the mold of an established Maltby or Draper, not Callahan/Korpikoski. (Not saying those guys can't get to that level in the future).

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12-19-2008, 12:08 PM
  #50
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I talked to an NHL scout the other night in Phoenix and he told me that the Rangers have more NHL ready players in Hartford than any other team in the American League.

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