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Knuble vs Hartnell

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Old
12-21-2008, 11:43 PM
  #26
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I hope Flyers will not re-sign Knuble and let him walk.

Thanks for everything Mike. Good-bye and good luck.

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12-22-2008, 12:05 AM
  #27
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[QUOTE=Kaktus;16937375]I hope Flyers will not re-sign Knuble and let him walk.

Thanks for everything Mike. Good-bye and good luck.[/Qy
You cannot have a roster of just 23 yr old kids. Every team needs vets dispersed throughout the line up. To show the younger players how to be a proffesional and do your job, take care of your body. Not to be out all the time chasing tail. Knuble is solid if we get him on the cheap I'm a proponet of keeping him.

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12-22-2008, 12:11 AM
  #28
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Hartnell = hot at the moment. I will wait abit before comparing the two... (not saying he's bad, but I do like the heart and leadership Knuble brings)

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Old
12-22-2008, 12:40 AM
  #29
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You cannot have a roster of just 23 yr old kids. Every team needs vets dispersed throughout the line up. To show the younger players how to be a proffesional and do your job, take care of your body. Not to be out all the time chasing tail. Knuble is solid if we get him on the cheap I'm a proponet of keeping him.
We have vets: Timonen and Gagne. Thats enough for me.

If JVR and Giroux are ready to play next year I want them on our team, not Mike Knuble. His leadership is overrated. We have other player who is ready to step up in that locker room. Carter.

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Old
12-22-2008, 12:45 AM
  #30
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I think this might be the first time ive ever thought of Jvr as a prospect with a higher ceiling then carter or richards. Its so unbelievable what this offense will look like when giroux and jvr are in the lineup producing like expected.

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12-22-2008, 01:13 AM
  #31
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yes he's a better skater....knuble is a slightly below avg skater, and hartnell is a slightly above skater.

But Knuble has better hands and a better defensive player....so all evens out .
I have to disagree with Knuble having better hands. I think Knuble is a bit better around the net, and a bit better defensively. Hartnell is a much better passer, Knuble tends to fire every pass like hes clearing the zone on the PK. Hartnell is much more physical and is more of a pest, especially to opposing goalies. He pissed the **** out of Huet in the playoffs. Though despite Knubling a whole bunch of powerplays Knuble is far more disciplined then Hartnell.

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12-22-2008, 01:43 AM
  #32
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I hope Knuble will resign with the Flyers with a paycut and short term.

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Old
12-22-2008, 02:15 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
Hartnell is awesome. I can't believe that people don't like him.
I've never understood the hate he gets from fellow fans.

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Old
12-22-2008, 06:39 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
I hope Flyers will not re-sign Knuble and let him walk.

Thanks for everything Mike. Good-bye and good luck.
I really hate the desire to get rid of Knuble. This guy earns only 2.8 mil and consistently delivers 30 goals a year. (salary about 1.5 mil less than Hartnell).

Hartnell is great and young.. but more inconsistent than Knuble. Hartnell scores in bunches and goes cold for long periods of time.

I'd say because of age concerns sign Knuble to a shorter contract. As for price, a guy who scores 30 goals a year, provides such PP performance, and does what he does shouldnt get much less than what he gets now.

For instance if you sign him to a 3 year, take into account the possibility thta he will perform close to the way he is now for another year, then maybe 2 years of slow-down. Let's say he slows down to the extent that he is delegated to a third line veteran presence for his last 2 years.

I think 3 years at 2.2 per year would be reasonable. MAybe even 2.5.

There are decent 3rd liners that get those amounts. A good 3rd line forward can get that.. and Knuble may very well remain a Top 6 for much of the contract term. We dont know when he will slow down.

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Old
12-22-2008, 06:50 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
I have to disagree with Knuble having better hands. I think Knuble is a bit better around the net, and a bit better defensively. Hartnell is a much better passer, Knuble tends to fire every pass like hes clearing the zone on the PK. Hartnell is much more physical and is more of a pest, especially to opposing goalies. He pissed the **** out of Huet in the playoffs. Though despite Knubling a whole bunch of powerplays Knuble is far more disciplined then Hartnell.
what I mean by hands is how he can maneuver the puck from in close, deflections and overall scoring touch.. Hartnell is the better passer, I agree.

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Old
12-22-2008, 08:17 AM
  #36
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Id take Hartnell over Knuble. Hartnell is basically a faster version of Knuble. He also has funnier hair. The main upside to Knuble is his leadership, but i think that will develop for Hartnell as he gets older.

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Old
12-22-2008, 08:26 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by flyer6 View Post
I think this might be the first time ive ever thought of Jvr as a prospect with a higher ceiling then carter or richards. Its so unbelievable what this offense will look like when giroux and jvr are in the lineup producing like expected.
That's why we have to make sure we're a cup team right when they get here. We won't be able to keep all these players for a long time, soon enough the salaries will catch up.

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Old
12-22-2008, 09:55 AM
  #38
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I say keep both of them because they're both essential. I love having the big guys in front of the net. With scorers like Ritchie and Gags, and Carter and Lups the deflections in front are a huge part of our game.

I'd love to see Knuble stay but this is likely to be his last season.

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Old
12-22-2008, 10:26 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
Hartnell is awesome. I can't believe that people don't like him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
I've never understood the hate he gets from fellow fans.
I agree with the both of you. I think Hartnell is a good player, and a good guy to have on your team. Besides, he's always good for a few laughs.

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Old
12-22-2008, 10:48 AM
  #40
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I hope Knuble plays out his career here. Im sure he will take the im 35 and im going to finish my career here paycut (not much though).

Since they both can't be out on the ice at ice same time, Flyers really need them both since thier both great garbage goal players.

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Old
12-22-2008, 12:14 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
I've never understood the hate he gets from fellow fans.
It's no different than those who wanted to trade Carter for the past 2 years. They are impatient and can't see past today.

The fact is that the makeup of this team would be much much better if we trade Upshall this offseason (like we did with Umberger, get me another 1st where we can take naother player like Sbisa or a top rated goalie and I'd be tickled pink), re-sign Knuble (at about 4 mil over 2 years) and Biron (8-9 mil over 2 years) and bring up either Giroux or JVR (with the other getting a bit more seasoning in the AHL.

Even next season Knuble will be a much more valuable asset to the team than either Giroux or JVR. However, give then a full year in the NHL and Knuble another year of getting older and by year 2 of his new contract Knuble may be passed by either or both of Giroux or JVR in all aspects of the game. Knuble will be great to still have around for when we get those inevitable injuries.

You know what, now I don't want to jinx them or anything but Knuble and Hartnell stay pretty healthy compared to most of the rest of the team. You'd think it should be otherwise seeing how they both make their living getting dirty in the trenches but overall they are 2 of the more healthy players we've had. Strange.

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Old
12-22-2008, 01:08 PM
  #42
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one thing that i've always said about knuble is that he is an artist in front of the net. i don't mean standing in there, getting the **** beat out of himself to pot rebounds, but his knack for deflecting pucks. nobody on the team has that ability perfected as he does. i've seen him, on the backhand, flick low shots up to a specific corner while being knocked off his skates. until hartnell, or another forward, learns that art, knuble offers us something irreplacable.

other than that, hartnell and knubles skillsets are a wash, with the nod going to hartnell for his age...

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12-22-2008, 01:26 PM
  #43
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Hartnell needs to show the consistancy to get 30 goals

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Old
12-22-2008, 01:46 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Brophy View Post
I hope Knuble plays out his career here. Im sure he will take the im 35 and im going to finish my career here paycut (not much though).

Since they both can't be out on the ice at ice same time, Flyers really need them both since thier both great garbage goal players.
Xactly, I dont even like this Hartnell vs Knuble thread... it should NOT be 'versus', it should be 'AND' .

Philly would be real stupid IMHO to let either of them go. Rather trade Upshall than Knuble.

Those stand-in-front-of-net, FRANZEN-type re-directors are golden.

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Old
12-22-2008, 01:50 PM
  #45
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I wonder if soon Knuble will accept 4 line with PP duties

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Old
12-23-2008, 01:39 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Hartnell = hot at the moment. I will wait abit before comparing the two... (not saying he's bad, but I do like the heart and leadership Knuble brings)
You got it.

There are teams in this league that would kill to have Mike Knuble on their side of the goal crease, and the Flyers will regret trading him. As you said, his heart is amazing and his leadership qualities are under-rated. On ice, there are very few players in the league who can do a better job in and around the net. The Rangers desperately missed Graves, we missed LeClair, and, if traded, we will miss Mike Knuble.

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Old
12-23-2008, 01:42 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
It's no different than those who wanted to trade Carter for the past 2 years. They are impatient and can't see past today.

The fact is that the makeup of this team would be much much better if we trade Upshall this offseason (like we did with Umberger, get me another 1st where we can take naother player like Sbisa or a top rated goalie and I'd be tickled pink), re-sign Knuble (at about 4 mil over 2 years) and Biron (8-9 mil over 2 years) and bring up either Giroux or JVR (with the other getting a bit more seasoning in the AHL.

Even next season Knuble will be a much more valuable asset to the team than either Giroux or JVR. However, give then a full year in the NHL and Knuble another year of getting older and by year 2 of his new contract Knuble may be passed by either or both of Giroux or JVR in all aspects of the game. Knuble will be great to still have around for when we get those inevitable injuries.

You know what, now I don't want to jinx them or anything but Knuble and Hartnell stay pretty healthy compared to most of the rest of the team. You'd think it should be otherwise seeing how they both make their living getting dirty in the trenches but overall they are 2 of the more healthy players we've had. Strange.

why trade upshall? you're not gonna get anything fror him....his value is no where NEAR the value of Umberger. Umberger wasn't traded he was let go for cap reasons...unless I'm mistaken. Upshall is the perfect 3rd liner mucker/grinder for this team and is gonna be pretty cheap. I agree with the goalie prospect, but why would you keep Biron....that is not money well spent.

But keeping topic with this thread....I do agree with keeping Knuble for an extra year....I don't know about 2 because there are 2 gems in the pipeline ready to come in.

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Old
12-23-2008, 10:08 PM
  #48
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Where's that "Knuble'd" picture I saw around here a couple days ago?

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Old
12-23-2008, 10:20 PM
  #49
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I would take Hartnell over Knuble if I had to choose one or the other, but I hope they both stick around. Both have clicked with their lines and have fit in well and are producing, so I have no complaints.

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Old
12-23-2008, 10:21 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
I've never understood the hate he gets from fellow fans.
I don't like Hartnell and have no qualms admitting that. He's been in the league for how long now and he still hasn't put together one fifty point season. On top of that, for someone who's supposed to be the guy who replaces Knuble, Hartnell still hasn't even managed one 30 goal campaign. Knuble has had two, and almost had three last season. He would have had four if he didn't miss 16 games in the 06-07 season. Knuble has been a consistent point producer.

So, until Hartnell manages a 30 goal season and a 50 point season, he's always going to be an overrated hack who's making 4.2 million a year. Although, I'm sure he's being paid 4.2 million for the 'intangibles' he brings to the table and not for production..........

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