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Old
12-22-2008, 04:38 AM
  #26
BobbyClarkeFan16
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With regards to players/personnel being jettisoned for next season, I'm thinking it'll be something like:

Biron
Niitty
Kukkonen
Alberts
Jones
Knuble
Upshall
Asham
Metropolit

Don't forget we've also got Hatcher's contract coming off the books and I think we're left with one more year of Mike Rathje's contract on the books. With Jones, Alberts, and Kukkonen gone, that makes room for Parent and leaves us with enough money to re-sign Vaananen. With Niitty and Biron being free to walk, it means the Flyers taking a stab at Khabibulin and having Scott Munroe as the backup. With Knuble, Upshall, Asham and Metropolit being sent packing, we'll have a spot on the top line for a right winger (Giroux?), two spots on the third line (maybe a JVR - Briere - Nodl line) and a fourth line spot (Kalinski). We could still keep Lupul. It's not as if the cap is going down by a whole lot. The reports I've seen are that the cap is going to go down to 55 million. It's only 1.7 million less than this year. The Flyers should be in good shape.

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Old
12-22-2008, 05:01 AM
  #27
donnieb
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Lupul is staying without a doubt, he's on pace to score 30 goals and is worth keeping.He has too much potential and is young. JVR and Giroux will only get 850 k a year for their first contract. Vaananen might not be back. Theres 1 million free, kukkonen will be gone at 900 k, the logical thing to do is knuble has to go at 2.8. Jones might stay but will have to take a pay cut because nobody will give him 2.75 again. Defence or Knuble will leave before Lupul. The Flyers best line is Hartnell Carter Lupul right now so that won't be broke up any time soon.

Next years defence will probably look like this

Timmonen Coburn
Carle Parent
Sbisa ?

JVR Richards Gagne
Hartnell Carter Lupul
Giroux Briere Upshall
Cote Metropolit Asham

Giroux and JVR will get 1.75 combined.
Upshall won't get much if he's resigned, he doesn't have the point totals. About 1.75 for him.
3.5 million is what about is needed.

Kuukkonen, Alberts, Knuble, Vanannen and Jones frees up about 8.5 million.
They could resign Jones, keep Vanannen or shop for a new defenceman. Something will defintley happen with the defence when Parent gets back.


Last edited by donnieb: 12-22-2008 at 05:44 AM.
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Old
12-22-2008, 05:41 AM
  #28
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12-22-2008, 05:51 AM
  #29
Terence Peterman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donnieb View Post
Lupul is staying without a doubt, he's on pace to score 30 goals and is worth keeping.He has too much potential and is young. JVR and Giroux will only get 850 k a year for their first contract. Vaananen might not be back. Theres 1 million free, kukkonen will be gone at 900 k, the logical thing to do is knuble has to go at 2.8. Jones might stay but will have to take a pay cut because nobody will give him 2.75 again. Defence or Knuble will leave before Lupul. The Flyers best line is Hartnell Carter Lupul right now so that won't be broke up any time soon.

Next years defence will probably look like this

Timmonen Coburn
Carle Parent
Sbisa ?

JVR Richards Gagne
Hartnell Carter Lupul
Giroux Briere Upshall
Cote Metropolit Asham

Giroux and JVR will get 1.75 combined.
Upshall won't get much if he's resigned, he doesn't have the point totals. About 1.75 for him.
3.5 million is what about is needed.

Kuukkonen, Alberts, Knuble, Vanannen and Jones frees up about 8.5 million.
They could resign Jones, keep Vanannen or shop for a new defenceman. Something will defintley happen with the defence when Parent gets back.
have you missed the part where JvR could come in at a 2+ million dollar cap hit?

and, there's more i could harp on, but i'm just gonna stick to the obvious: getting rid of lupul makes the most sense because of his contract that kicks in next year at a plain stupid number, regardless what goal scoring pace he's on. he won't be missed because this team has fire power at forward blazing straight out of their *******.

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Old
12-22-2008, 05:55 AM
  #30
decadentia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donnieb View Post
Lupul is staying without a doubt, he's on pace to score 30 goals and is worth keeping.
He's underperforming for 4 mil ( which he will be making next year ). I think you are going to be highly surprised next year. He makes the most sense to trade away, he's a legitimate asset and can free us up needed space.

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Old
12-22-2008, 06:07 AM
  #31
donnieb
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Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
He's underperforming for 4 mil ( which he will be making next year ). I think you are going to be highly surprised next year. He makes the most sense to trade away, he's a legitimate asset and can free us up needed space.
Any 30 goal scorer will get 4 million in the NHL.

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Old
12-22-2008, 06:14 AM
  #32
donnieb
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Originally Posted by Sonny View Post
have you missed the part where JvR could come in at a 2+ million dollar cap hit?

and, there's more i could harp on, but i'm just gonna stick to the obvious: getting rid of lupul makes the most sense because of his contract that kicks in next year at a plain stupid number, regardless what goal scoring pace he's on. he won't be missed because this team has fire power at forward blazing straight out of their *******.
Lupul will be going nowhere, he's starting to turn it on and if he does score 30 goals this year he's worth the money. He got that much money because he scored 20 goals in 56 games last year. I will never have anything bad to say about lupul anyone who sends Ovechkin and the caps packing in ot in game 7 is worth keeping. Don't forget what he has done for the team. He was on pace for 30 last year and will get 30 this year. That is worth 4 million in todays NHL. If Giroux and JVR come in and rip the league up than trade him, but that remains to be seen.

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Old
12-22-2008, 06:46 AM
  #33
decadentia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donnieb View Post
Any 30 goal scorer will get 4 million in the NHL.
Mike Knuble amongst tons of others say hello.

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Old
12-22-2008, 06:49 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donnieb View Post
Lupul will be going nowhere, he's starting to turn it on and if he does score 30 goals this year he's worth the money. He got that much money because he scored 20 goals in 56 games last year. I will never have anything bad to say about lupul anyone who sends Ovechkin and the caps packing in ot in game 7 is worth keeping. Don't forget what he has done for the team. He was on pace for 30 last year and will get 30 this year. That is worth 4 million in todays NHL. If Giroux and JVR come in and rip the league up than trade him, but that remains to be seen.
It has absolutely nothing to do with whats market value or what hes worth. It has to do with our current cap situation, and who is expendable. Lupul is expendable, and he's the most likely candidate to get traded. Your personal feelings on what he's done for this team don't affect it. Dollars, cents, and his production do.

It's been talked about a ton on this board, we have lots of talent, however that talent is attached to dollar figures that affect our cap. We will have to trade some talent in order to stay under the cap and make a full roster.

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Old
12-22-2008, 06:54 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
With regards to players/personnel being jettisoned for next season, I'm thinking it'll be something like:

Biron
Niitty
Kukkonen
Alberts
Jones
Knuble
Upshall
Asham
Metropolit

Don't forget we've also got Hatcher's contract coming off the books and I think we're left with one more year of Mike Rathje's contract on the books. With Jones, Alberts, and Kukkonen gone, that makes room for Parent and leaves us with enough money to re-sign Vaananen. With Niitty and Biron being free to walk, it means the Flyers taking a stab at Khabibulin and having Scott Munroe as the backup. With Knuble, Upshall, Asham and Metropolit being sent packing, we'll have a spot on the top line for a right winger (Giroux?), two spots on the third line (maybe a JVR - Briere - Nodl line) and a fourth line spot (Kalinski). We could still keep Lupul. It's not as if the cap is going down by a whole lot. The reports I've seen are that the cap is going to go down to 55 million. It's only 1.7 million less than this year. The Flyers should be in good shape.
I don't think Rathje's salary counts towards the cap for this year or next year. He's basically retired and collectiong pension money right now.

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Old
12-22-2008, 07:15 AM
  #36
JXC
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What the heck is this thread about?

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Old
12-22-2008, 09:28 AM
  #37
BringBackStevens
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I would hang onto Upshall, Metropolit, and Asham if possible. I would first let Knuble walk (I am in no way bashing him, but he is not vital and we need every penny), then try to trade Jones and Lupul in the offseason. Alberts and Kukkonen should be easy to let go as well.

Vaananen is my first priority to re-sign, on a 3 year deal worth about 5-6 million. Sbisa and Parent stay.

Gagne - Richards - Giroux
Hartnell - Carter - JVR
Nodl - Briere - Upshall
Cote - Metropolit - Asham/Kalinski
Powe

Timonen - Coburn
Vaananen - Carle
Sbisa - Parent
(someone)

~34 million for the forwards
~16 million for the defense

~50 million total with 5+ million depending on the cap to figure out the goalie situation

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Old
12-22-2008, 09:41 AM
  #38
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I already detailed my outlook on next season once before in the Trade rumors forum. I'll simply quote that post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosof99 View Post
The lines for next season are giving me a headache since I have no clue how we are going to stack three top-line centers and give them adequate personnel on their wings. Anyways, I'm seeing the following transactions an players on our team next season:

Lupul and Jones will be traded this season before the trade deadline.
I could see a deadline trade sending Niittymäki and other stuff for a playoff goaltender.
Upshall will be traded on Draft Day similar to Umberger.
Knuble will extend his contract for another year with the same prize.
Ossi Väänänen will also be re-signed for about 1.5 Mio.
JVR and Claude Giroux will join up to the Flyers.
Sbisa will probably be sent back to Juniors. Danny Syvret might come up from the Phantoms.
Andreas Nödl and Darroll Powe will probably be traded away.


Team next season (with Cap hit):
Mike Richards (5.75)
Danny Briere (6.00)
Jeff Carter (5.00)
Glen Metropolit (1.00)

Simon Gagne (5.25)
Scott Hartnell (4.20)
Mike Knuble (2.80)
James vanRiemsdyk (0.875)
Claude Giroux (0.875)
Riley Cote (0.55)
Arron Asham (0.625)

Kimmo Timonen (6.333)
Matt Carle (2.902)
Braydon Coburn (1.30)
Ossi Väänänen (1.50)
Ryan Parent (0.855)
Danny Syvret (0.875)
Luca Sbisa (0.875)

The salaries in italics are estimates since, but since they are rookies I just gave them the same what Luca Sbisa gets this season.

This above is a total cap hit of 47,337 which should leave enough space for an 8th winger and two goaltenders, the backup goalie costing less than 1 Mio. I could also see Scott Munroe who currently plays with the Phantoms move up and take the backup next season.

The problem is that the above team is a bit dependent on rookies to come through.

This post is about two weeks old. The only thing that changed since then though is that Lupul has found his scoring touch again since he plays with Carter and Hartnell. I hope he keeps that up until the end of the season. In that case we wouldn't have to trade Lupul and he'd be the 8th winger I was talking about.

Lines in my thought process for next season:

Gagné - Richards - Knuble
vanRiemsdyk - Carter - Lupul
Hartnell - Brière - Giroux
Cote - Metropolit - Asham

Timonen - Coburn
Carle - Väänänen
Parent - Syvret/Sbisa

? (?/Munroe)


I could also see Maroon make a move up if JVR decides to stay in college. Most of this post is actually just to show that we can staff a very good team for next year already with assets we already have and without making any big deals or FA acquisitions, except for goaltending.

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Old
12-22-2008, 10:05 AM
  #39
Cleary84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
Like others have said, Lupul has to be gone I would think. Knuble is someone i'd like to keep however.

I wonder how much of a raise Vaananen will be asking for, you would have to think we'd be trying to bring him back.

Personally I see homer believe the following are expendable depending what he plans on doing...

Lupul
Upshall
Knuble
Alberts
Kukkonnen

I really wonder if Briere would consider being traded, something i'll never know, but always wish I did. Although i'd like to keep him, he sure would free up a lot of space to build a more cohesive team around. Anyhou, thats my can of worms for the week.
I'd hate to see Uppie go. His offense hasn't really sparked this season but he lights a fire under everyone's ass with his attitude and emotion. I say give him an extension.

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Old
12-22-2008, 10:21 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post

~34 million for the forwards
~16 million for the defense

~50 million total with 5+ million depending on the cap to figure out the goalie situation
that would be the perfect world.
unfortunately, with all these big contracts up front, the flyers will have a hard time getting to this 34/16-setup and not get worse but better.


btw, am i the only one who thinks knuble is vital for the teams success and especially for the first line? i think gagne and richards need a big body in front of the net and in the corner's to click.
also, the forward group, not beeing very big, would get smaller again. hartnell and carter would be the only guys you could label as big, i don't want to rely on JvR in his rookie season to be that strong physically.
i think knuble could get signed to a 2-year $3-million or a 1-year $1,8-million contract.


question:
do you think vaananen would sign for $1,5-million or less in these days, as d-men get overpaid on free agency more often than not?

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Old
12-22-2008, 10:35 AM
  #41
Gert B Frobe
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Yeah I've always liked Joffrey, it just makes too much sense to get rid of him.
they'd basically have to give him away - nobody is going to offer anything for Lupul at 4M.

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12-22-2008, 10:37 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosof99 View Post
I already detailed my outlook on next season once before in the Trade rumors forum. I'll simply quote that post:




This post is about two weeks old. The only thing that changed since then though is that Lupul has found his scoring touch again since he plays with Carter and Hartnell. I hope he keeps that up until the end of the season. In that case we wouldn't have to trade Lupul and he'd be the 8th winger I was talking about.

Lines in my thought process for next season:

Gagné - Richards - Knuble
vanRiemsdyk - Carter - Lupul
Hartnell - Brière - Giroux
Cote - Metropolit - Asham

Timonen - Coburn
Carle - Väänänen
Parent - Syvret/Sbisa

? (?/Munroe)


I could also see Maroon make a move up if JVR decides to stay in college. Most of this post is actually just to show that we can staff a very good team for next year already with assets we already have and without making any big deals or FA acquisitions, except for goaltending.
Don't like that 3rd line at all. Hartnell needs to stay away from Briere in my opinion. And how many more years of college does JVR need??? Is he a freakin engineering major or what???

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Old
12-22-2008, 10:53 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Mountaineer View Post
they'd basically have to give him away - nobody is going to offer anything for Lupul at 4M.
A small market team having trouble luring scorers with a few years of experience might be interested.

A note to everyone: STOP LISTING JVR AS AN $850K CAP HIT. As the #2 pick in the draft, he'll command an incentive laden deal (like every other top pick has) that will be a $2-3M cap hit. Kane makes $3.7M, Turris makes $2.7M. Doughty, this year's #2, makes like $3.4M. Put the number in line with those.

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12-22-2008, 11:01 AM
  #44
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Lupul goes, no doubt. 4.25 Million is the difference between re-signing a few good players and losing to many other guys.
Upshall is a good candidate to be outta here, even though I like what he brings.
Jones could very well be outta here to re-sign Vaananen, who I think is more valuable to this team if he can be re-signed to a small deal for 2 million, then playing Jones and his awful $2.75 mill hit.
Knuble might be outta here, but I see him being re-signed, for cheap. I think he wants to be here. (I hope so anyway)

JVR is on his way in next year. Giroux could join him if he can prove he deserves a roster spot out of camp.

I think a huge problem will be goalies. They get good money and Biron, for all his inconsistencies, might command a decent amount.

Gagne-Richards-Knuble
JVR-Carter-Briere
Hartnell-Metro-Giroux
Cote-???-Asham

Coburn-Timonen
Vaananen-Carle
Sbisa-???

Biron
Nitty

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12-22-2008, 11:02 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaineer View Post
Don't like that 3rd line at all. Hartnell needs to stay away from Briere in my opinion. And how many more years of college does JVR need??? Is he a freakin engineering major or what???
He was drafted at 18 like 2 years ago.

So yeah, did you graduate college in 2-3 years?

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Old
12-22-2008, 11:19 AM
  #46
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keep asham but dump upshall? i'd rather keep scottie, he plays a more important role than might meet the eye.

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Old
12-22-2008, 11:23 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Lupul goes, no doubt. 4.25 Million is the difference between re-signing a few good players and losing to many other guys.
Upshall is a good candidate to be outta here, even though I like what he brings.
Jones could very well be outta here to re-sign Vaananen, who I think is more valuable to this team if he can be re-signed to a small deal for 2 million, then playing Jones and his awful $2.75 mill hit.
Knuble might be outta here, but I see him being re-signed, for cheap. I think he wants to be here. (I hope so anyway)

JVR is on his way in next year. Giroux could join him if he can prove he deserves a roster spot out of camp.

I think a huge problem will be goalies. They get good money and Biron, for all his inconsistencies, might command a decent amount.

Gagne-Richards-Knuble
JVR-Carter-Briere
Hartnell-Metro-Giroux
Cote-???-Asham

Coburn-Timonen
Vaananen-Carle
Sbisa-???

Biron
Nitty
i kinda like those lines, but i'd like to see knuble gone with any of JvR, Hartnell, or Briere in his spot. Hartnell would have to be taught to slow things down a little and be told straight to his face what he shouldn't even be trying...I think he's one of the guys on the team where a true system being implented would really help, and this whole telling-him-his-role-point-blank thing would be as close as possible to that.

Putting Briere in that spot still leaves Carter with Hartnell and then a guy like Giroux. The only real difficulty would be the third line, because what we'd be left with is vanRiemsdyk and maybe upshall there. I don't mind it, but I just don't know how much it would benefit big James, and he'd [robably be a little out of place...but maybe it could help out his physicality.

As far as defense goes, I can't think of who'd get that last spot. I think I'm just having a brain fart.

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12-22-2008, 11:25 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
keep asham but dump upshall? i'd rather keep scottie, he plays a more important role than might meet the eye.
every penny counts and asham would be making somewhere around a million less than him. I love upshall's ridiculous ability to be a spark plug, but the cap is more important than that, especially when able to still ice a pretty damn competitive looking roster on paper without him (which is the only thing they'll have to go on).

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12-22-2008, 11:46 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Mountaineer View Post
they'd basically have to give him away - nobody is going to offer anything for Lupul at 4M.
Depends on the year he has I guess. If he does pot 30 goals or 60 points and continues to show progress in his game, there's a few teams with cap space who could use a RW point producer. But if we have to give him away, that's fine too, the cap space is important.

Quote:
Originally Posted by donnieb View Post
Any 30 goal scorer will get 4 million in the NHL.
That's fine, but we can't afford it on the cap here with all the big contracts Holmgren has handed out.

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12-22-2008, 12:07 PM
  #50
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I can't see Upshall getting too much of a raise. I know he is a former 6th overall pick and such, but he is only a .44 point per game player in his career, and I see him topping out at a 15 goal, 20 assist 3rd line agitator. Plus this season he is only on pace for 27 points. He does bring a lot of intangibles to his game, but it seems that mainly only power forwards and Chris Drury get big paychecks for those. I could see them locking up him up for a 3 year contract at 2 million a year at the most.

And people do have to stop putting 875K down as JVR's salary. It likely will be over 3 million based on what others (ie Doughty, Turris) have gotten.

What I can see next year for lines is:

Gagne (5.25) - Richards (5.75) - Knuble (3)
Hartnell (4.2) - Carter (5) - JVR (3.4)
Upshall (2) - Briere (6.5) - Giroux (0.821667)
Cote (0.55) - Metropolit (1) - Asham (0.64)
Powe (0.52)

Timonen (6.333333) - Coburn (1.3)
Carle (3.4375) - Vaananen (2)
Sbisa (0.875) - Parent (0.855)
Guenin (0.55)

Biron (4)
somebody cheap to backup (0.8)

Lupul and Jones would have to be moved, Niittymaki, Alberts and Kukkonen let go.

However, even this comes in at 58.78, over the current salary cap. So Knuble might have to be let go and replaced with a cheaper option (ie Nodl).

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