HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Carter vs. Getzlaf

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-22-2008, 09:06 AM
  #1
Flyers5150
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 16
vCash: 500
Carter vs. Getzlaf

If you had asked me last season or even over the summer, I would have told you that I would much rather have Getzlaf than Carter. This of course was based on the obvious fact that Getzlaf >>> Carter in their first 3 seasons. However, I am not sure I would trade Carter for Getzlaf straight up at this point. Is this a homer view or has Carter really closed the gap? Which do you see as better now and in the future?

Flyers5150 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 09:26 AM
  #2
HoverCarle*
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,859
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to HoverCarle*
Getzlaf uses his size more effetivly at this point

HoverCarle* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 09:35 AM
  #3
BringBackStevens
Registered User
 
BringBackStevens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 12,013
vCash: 500
Getzlaf is better, but that's not an insult

BringBackStevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 09:49 AM
  #4
LEIFey
Context Matters!
 
LEIFey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 7,284
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to LEIFey
getzlaf now, but carter has shown dramatic improvement this season. who knows in the future who will be better.

LEIFey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 09:53 AM
  #5
Cleary84
Registered User
 
Cleary84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,424
vCash: 500
Getzlaf is all-around better, but I would take Carter's offense over him.

Cleary84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 10:00 AM
  #6
Brophy
Registered User
 
Brophy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Redondo Beach
Country: United States
Posts: 600
vCash: 500
Id defenitly take Carter. Hes offense is far better, hes defensive game id want to say is better. Carter is starting to throw his body around and its working out. He has had some solid hits in these last few games. I think Carter is far better holding on to the puck and able to skate through traffic with it.

The only real difference between the two is fighting.

Brophy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 10:10 AM
  #7
rizface
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 39
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brophy View Post
Id defenitly take Carter. Hes offense is far better, hes defensive game id want to say is better. Carter is starting to throw his body around and its working out. He has had some solid hits in these last few games. I think Carter is far better holding on to the puck and able to skate through traffic with it.

The only real difference between the two is fighting.
Getzlaf has performed really well for the past 3 years. Carter's has broken out for just half a season even less. Give me this full year including playoffs and another year next year then we'll talk. As of right now, I'd take Getzlaf....but in the future who knows.

rizface is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 10:20 AM
  #8
Brophy
Registered User
 
Brophy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Redondo Beach
Country: United States
Posts: 600
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rizface View Post
Getzlaf has performed really well for the past 3 years. Carter's has broken out for just half a season even less. Give me this full year including playoffs and another year next year then we'll talk. As of right now, I'd take Getzlaf....but in the future who knows.
Your right about that. I was looking at it from a here and now stand point.
A physical 6'4 point producer would always be nice though.

Brophy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 10:30 AM
  #9
Gert B Frobe
Registered User
 
Gert B Frobe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Morgantown PA
Country: United States
Posts: 5,448
vCash: 500
Until this year and maybe late last year Getzlaf has been playing on a much better team.

To date Getzlaf is better but Carter has more up-side in my opinion.

Gert B Frobe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 11:51 AM
  #10
phlocky
Registered User
 
phlocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,138
vCash: 500
I love this discussion, we had it last year too. Last year I was about the only one who felt that Carter was better. Maybe not right then but as I said then in the very near future Carter would be the superior player. Getz is a great player, don't get me wrong but I know that I wouldn't trade Carter for him straight up.

Getz is much more like Richards in that he plays more with his head rather than pure ability like Carter. Players like Richards and Getzlaf reach their full potential much much earlier than guys like Carter. What we see from Richards right now is about as much as we can expect from him. Now I'm not disappointed in Richards at all as he's an excellent player but in the next 2 years Carter is going to start really distancing himself from Richards in offensive ability.

I've been telling people for years to just be patient with Carter, that he was going to be wonderful. He won't reach his full potential for another 2 years yet guys, just sit back and enjoy the ride and be amazed that he can still improve. With players like Carter there are 3 main things that hold them back at the beginning. The first is experience, since Carter doesn't read plays as quick as a guy like Richards, he really needs to learn to read the plays and players at the NHL level. For Carter that took about 3 seasons and we can see this in how many breakaways he creates on the PK. You'd expect Richards to create these chances based on how easily he reads plays and Gagne with his experience in reading plays but for Carter to have learned it as fast as he has and to create shorthanded chances off those reads is exceptional for him at this stage. Second is pure physical developement. When Carter came up he was a skinny kid who got pushed all over the place. He was easily pushed off the puck but bigger and stronger opposing players. His lack pf size really kept him from being able to impose his will on a game that his pure skill may indicate he should. Carter has really filled out over the past 3 years and he is much much stronger on the puck. He should finish filling out over the next 1-2 years. Expect him to get even more dominant with the puck. The third thing is confidence and this is mainly due to him not having the physical size to keep from getting man-handled on the ice and experienced vets exploiting Carters lack of experience and picking his pocket. This point really didn't take any work to over come but as he gained in experience and size, this lack of confidence subsided.

Right now Getzlaf is probably slightly better all around but the gap is very small and a case can be made for either player. Probably about 75% of the fans would choose Ryan right now but I believe that withing 2 years that will be reversed with 75% choosing Jeff.

Hence, I REALLY REALLY wanted us to sign Carter to the exact same contract we signed Richards to last year. I know that Carter really hadn't shown that he warrented such at that time but I was confident that I had seen enough glimpses of him beginning to reach that potential that I would take that chance. Just imagine if we had two top 2 centers locked up for 12 years for a combined 11.5 mil.

phlocky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 11:52 AM
  #11
Ex Storm
Dig out your soul...
 
Ex Storm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,075
vCash: 500
So one 23 year old has reached his potential but the other hasn't? You really think Richards can't improve from here?

Ex Storm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 11:57 AM
  #12
tytech
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,355
vCash: 500
Getzlaf would be the better player to play with. He can hold a puck, create chances. Yes, Carter has a shot but the goalies know it's coming and he uses it way too much. Try passing it around and cycling a little bit instead of shooting from bad angles like, behind the goal line. It's given away too much. Getzlaf creates more plays and his line mates benefit from it.

tytech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 12:30 PM
  #13
phlocky
Registered User
 
phlocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,138
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
So one 23 year old has reached his potential but the other hasn't? You really think Richards can't improve from here?

Richards will improve some but he doesn't have nearly as much growth potential as Carter. I knew some people would take this the wrong way. What I was trying to say is that players like Richards and Getzlaf would be faster out of the gate and up to speed quicker than guys like Carter. Carter was going to take a lot longer to get up to speed than Richards but once he did, watch out, he'll surpass Richards.

phlocky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 12:35 PM
  #14
sg12lw
Registered User
 
sg12lw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 880
vCash: 500
getzlaf is doing it on his own in ana this season, hes unreal

if i was starting a team or franchise id take getzlaf, but who knows if hed fit in with this team, so for now i will stick with whats working, and thats carter

sg12lw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 12:42 PM
  #15
kicksave27
Registered User
 
kicksave27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,247
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tytech View Post
Getzlaf would be the better player to play with. He can hold a puck, create chances. Yes, Carter has a shot but the goalies know it's coming and he uses it way too much. Try passing it around and cycling a little bit instead of shooting from bad angles like, behind the goal line. It's given away too much. Getzlaf creates more plays and his line mates benefit from it.
For most of the season carter was playing with nodl and upshall/hartnell, who basically got the puck and fed carter as much as possible. And nodl really should have had maybe 5 goals, he was just snake bit. As soon as lupul got put on his line you saw carter passing much more. With the shot carter has, he can't shoot enough, he beat the caps goalie with a wrister from above the circles, which is just nuts. Its heavy and quick which creates lots of rebound chances for the wingers. You can tell the goalie it's coming and probably where and Carter would probably still score. Carter's defense also leads to alot of his lines offense, he picks off alot of passes in the neutral zone and just flys the other way with his speed. And carter is going to get better.

kicksave27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 12:50 PM
  #16
27roenick97
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 610
vCash: 500
when looking at the two, really the thing that separates the two of them right now and tilts status quo status to getzlaf is his playmaking ability. he is an excellent passer, as is richards, which makes them more complete players. carter, recently, has shown a penchant for making some beautiful passes as well. maybe he's turning the corner in that aspect as well--carter has the highest ceiling, and i don't really think its even close.

27roenick97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 01:53 PM
  #17
Kaktus*
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 22,389
vCash: 500
Getzlaf is basically bigger stronger Mike Richards.

Does not mean I do not like Carter but Getzlaf is a better player right now.

Kaktus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 02:13 PM
  #18
Ex Storm
Dig out your soul...
 
Ex Storm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Richards will improve some but he doesn't have nearly as much growth potential as Carter. I knew some people would take this the wrong way. What I was trying to say is that players like Richards and Getzlaf would be faster out of the gate and up to speed quicker than guys like Carter. Carter was going to take a lot longer to get up to speed than Richards but once he did, watch out, he'll surpass Richards.
In goals and maybe points (which was always expected), yes, but not much of anything else. Richards got up to speed quicker, but I still see a lot of room for improvement in both their games before they hit their prime years. I know what you meant, I just don't think Richards' game is finished growing either.

Ex Storm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 03:45 PM
  #19
Bob Clarke Fan Club
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,984
vCash: 500
Getzlaf....but not by much and maybe not for long.

Bob Clarke Fan Club is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 04:43 PM
  #20
krantan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 376
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
In goals and maybe points (which was always expected), yes, but not much of anything else. Richards got up to speed quicker, but I still see a lot of room for improvement in both their games before they hit their prime years. I know what you meant, I just don't think Richards' game is finished growing either.
This is probably going to sound like heresy, but I think Carter is showing the ability (ie certainly NOT there yet) to be a better defensive player then Richards. He is bigger, faster and (this year) stronger on the puck. He has always shown a willingness to fight for the puck, and this year its much more obvious since he's winning alot more. He positional play has improved from "well, he's supposed to be an offensive guy" level to the point that he could probably find work in the NHL if he never scored another goal. He needs work on his draws (as does Richards if he wants to be as good as alot of us think he can be) but if he can improve there and keep playing a physical, puck control style with evolving positional awareness we could have a situation similar to Detroit last year where they had the top 2 Selke candidates.

Richards will likely continue to be our go-to defensive guy since he seems to thrive on the competition and enjoy getting under the opponents skin, but having two different lines that can play excellent defense and score is never a bad thing. Also, although he has significantly curbed it this season, Carter has the tendency to give up the occasional "pond hockey" breakaway after a bad missed shot. He is usually able to minimize the damage by getting back on defense, but its might be some pressure to sacrifice some of his offensive explosiveness if he's out there against the other teams most dangerous scorers.

krantan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 05:07 PM
  #21
CharlieGirl
Registered User
 
CharlieGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Kitchener, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,809
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
Getzlaf....but not by much and maybe not for long.
^^ this.

I love Getzlaf and if the Flyers didn't have Richards, I'd be apt to say I'd sooner have Getzlaf than Carter. I see Getzlaf as a combination of Richards and Carter -- he has Carter's size and skating ability, and Richards' smarts and playmaking.

CharlieGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 05:37 PM
  #22
krantan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 376
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosof99 View Post
Could somebody tell me in what trade we got the 11th pick in 2003 which we turned into Carter?
Langkow to Phoenix. We got a throw-in player (don't remember who) and the option of a 2nd in 02 or a 1st in 03, Phoenix was crap in 02 leading to the #11 pick, and the rest is history.

krantan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 06:18 PM
  #23
Gags1288
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by krantan View Post
Langkow to Phoenix. We got a throw-in player (don't remember who) and the option of a 2nd in 02 or a 1st in 03, Phoenix was crap in 02 leading to the #11 pick, and the rest is history.
No, we didn't get a player.

We got a 1st and a 2nd in the deal with the Flyers having the option to take the 1st or 2nd in '02 and then get the other in '03. The Flyers took the 2nd in '02 and used it in the deal for Pitkanen, the 1st in '03 obviously turned into Carter.

Gags1288 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 07:36 PM
  #24
mm6492
Registered User
 
mm6492's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,518
vCash: 500
hmmmmm.

I would take either obn my team. I would love either for the next 10 years

This is a bit of a homer, but I will take Carter just for that wrist shot

mm6492 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2008, 10:08 PM
  #25
HockeyTown
 
HockeyTown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Milano
Country: Italy
Posts: 42
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
Getzlaf....but not by much and maybe not for long.
I agree with you,it won't be long until Carter takes off and never looks back

HockeyTown is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:15 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.