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Do we really NEED a trade? No.

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Old
12-22-2008, 01:56 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Serious contender is pretty vague. No one wants to go into the playoffs with just enough. So people will say we need a kovalchuk or a gaborik, we don't really. Do we need a 20 goal guy who's gritty and fights? because fighting is a major concern in the playoffs?

Last year we got burned because we couldnt play 5 on 5. we have the best 5 on 5s in the league. Click our PP and you have a lethal combo. People aren't seeing the improvement because of the PP. Higgins and kovalev made tons of goals and points on the PP, so did Plek, notice all these guys are not close to last year's form stat wise? Find the PP solution, which probably is within our system. We have weber and such, he's just not ready for the big show. Can we use a top 4 did with a nice slapshot? yes, would make things easier but if a gm is gonna make a trade for every little thing, the team will never learn how to overcome obstacles. We'll learn now, even carbo refuses to bring weber up, he says we'll figure it out.

Maybe a deadline deal, last minute deal to throw us over the top. But as for the little things, people say we need to get shannahan, because he's a 'in your face' type of leader. Do we have chemistry issues or do we need an upgrade? there's a big difference. We have awesome depth up front. Another top 4 D is the only thing we could use, but then again, if o'byrne plays as good as he did last year, he's no jay bo, but already that makes it easier for us.
With the roster we have, I strongly feel we can't beat teams like Detroit, San Jose, Washington, and in some cases Pittsburgh. I feel a trade for a clutch, elite player is necessary to stay in the race for Stanley.

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Old
12-22-2008, 02:02 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by yarfangor View Post
With the roster we have, I strongly feel we can't beat teams like Detroit, San Jose, Washington, and in some cases Pittsburgh. I feel a trade for a clutch, elite player is necessary to stay in the race for Stanley.
They are good teams, elite players but they have a system suited for their game style. It seems sometimes our team isn't all flowing in the same direction. Boston doesn't have an elite talent. No disrespect to savard, good player but I just don't see him as a star. They have chara, we have Markov. They have Wideman...we have Komisarek. i think our top 2 is even better. Guys from their system are coming out of no where, getting called up and doing some impressive point totals. It's because they all go in the same direction. Sharks get a new coach, now they dominate. They have a similar team compared to last year don't they? Mind you, they did well in the standings last year, but now, they are a powerhouse. The coach changed everything. When players are all going in the same direction and chemistry works, it makes a huge dif.

Also, yes, it was only one game but we beat detroit. What we lack in offense, they lack in goal.

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12-22-2008, 02:03 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by yarfangor View Post
With the roster we have, I strongly feel we can't beat teams like Detroit, San Jose, Washington, and in some cases Pittsburgh. I feel a trade for a clutch, elite player is necessary to stay in the race for Stanley.
Do you know who I want?

Michael Peca.

You can't get more clutch or more defensively capable than him, and while he gets injured a lot, at $1.2M a year, he wouldn't cost us anything.

I know he is a center and we're not pretty deep at center, but if Plekanec ain't doing the job by the trade deadline, and we need some insurance? I say Michael Peca is the guy to go for.

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12-22-2008, 02:17 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yarfangor View Post
With the roster we have, I strongly feel we can't beat teams like Detroit, San Jose, Washington, and in some cases Pittsburgh. I feel a trade for a clutch, elite player is necessary to stay in the race for Stanley.
Detroit - Check - we beat them 3-1

Washington - almost check - they won the last game because they were lucky as hell, Habs hit 6-7 posts in that game.

San Jose - we'll have to see

Pittsburg - we'll have to see, and I'm not afraid of the results, Habs will fair well


That's the whole point. This season the Habs did beat Calgary, Minnesota, Detroit, New York, Philadelphia....

We are losing against second rate teams, which is not the worst of things. At least we aren't building a reputation of "invincible" team over beating weak teams like some other team I won't mention.

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12-22-2008, 02:24 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
We are losing against second rate teams, which is not the worst of things. At least we aren't building a reputation of "invincible" team over beating weak teams like some other team I won't mention.
In four games, "some other team" beat the Leafs three times and lost to them once.

ACCOMPLISHMENT!

At least we have an excuse, every game against the Leafs is a playoff game because they step their game up.

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Old
12-22-2008, 03:23 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
In four games, "some other team" beat the Leafs three times and lost to them once.

ACCOMPLISHMENT!

At least we have an excuse, every game against the Leafs is a playoff game because they step their game up.
When any team faces us in montreal, it's a playoff atmosphere for them.

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Old
12-22-2008, 03:39 PM
  #32
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People who think we need Gaborik or Koveulchuck are retards (probably europhiles who would take Gaborik over Iginla), but the habs desperatly need a tough and responsible Dman (or two) who can play big minutes.

The habs D depth is poor, breezer is our 6th man!! Imagine if a guy like Gorges or Hamrlik get injured? They'd be replaced by a O'Byrne who clearly is not ready for the NHL. Habs have no chance of going deep with O'Byrne and Breezer in their starting lineup cuz evebntually they'll run into a good and healthy team in a later round. Even mighty Detroit was killed by an inferior Anaheim team in 2006-2007 when they had a bunch of their starting 6 go out with injuries while Anaheim was relatively healthy.

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12-22-2008, 03:44 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Fido22 View Post
Quick question:

Why did you decide to make the thread title a question you answer in the title itself instead of writting something like "We do not really NEED a trade".

I'm curious. I often wonder about such things.
Good thing you're a dog because you know what curiosity did to the cat....

As far as a trade, yes I think we need a D-man with a good transitional game that can help out on the PP. Not sure we can go all the way with our current defensive pairings.

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Old
12-22-2008, 05:21 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
It's funny people keep saying we need a Top 4 D-Man. Not for defensive reasons as we are 8th best in Goals Allowed. But for offensive / powerplay reasons.

We are in every single game we play. We have the 6th fewest losses in the league. I think we really need a reliable goal scorer. Right now rookie D'Ago is our most reliable goal scorer.

We can't expect to win with the likes of Pleks (9 games without scoring), Tanguay (2 goals in 16 games), Kovalev (19 games without scoring).

Of our 14 losses and OT losses, 10 are one-goal losses.

Kovalev is on pace for 20 goals (last season 35 goals), Plek on pace for 15 goals (last season 29 goals), Higgins on pace for around 15 goals (last season 27 goals), A Kost on pace for 15 goals (last season 26 goals). Plus we had 43 goals between Lats, Ryder and Streit last season.

Somebody like Gaborik would elevate everybody around him. His longest stretch without scoring last season was 6 games. True he is an injury risk, but you need to take some risks in order to win a cup. Even somebody like Kovalchuk rarely goes more than 5 games without scoring.

You need this type of natural goal scorer and we haven't had one in a long-time. It would open up the ice for alot of non-superstar players like Pleks and A Kost.

We also have the talent to acquire somebody like this. Really time to go for broke.
I think we need a top 4 Dman who can play in a physical game, someone with a good first pass and solid in his own end (not prone to brain cramps). We need someone to replace Brisebois or Bouillon because the thing that is hurting us the most is our transition game. We get caught way too often because of poor breakouts. The problem is, Bouillon is alright in a physical game but can't move the puck while Brisebois is fairly good at moving the puck but sucks during a physical game. I'm not asking for a PP specialist although if the guy had a big shot it would be nice because we could replace Breezer. Our offensive players need to come out of the zone with speed and one last puck-moving Dman would help.

That's why people who say Kaberle isn't an answer because he doesn't have a big shot are wrong. Our transition game would be so much smoother with a guy like Kaberle. No more getting bottled up in our zone. I'm not saying Kaberle is the only answer but someone like him that has a good vision from the back end. Josh Gorges for exemple doesn't have Kaberle or Markov's vision but has a good first pass. You get the drift.

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Old
12-22-2008, 05:39 PM
  #35
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The reason why the Habs lost in the playoffs last year is because they were so bad on the PP. Teams just focused on that, put high pressure and the Habs could not score anymore, which is bad for an offensive team. Say what you want about Price, but a couple of PP goals against the Flyers and the results/momentum of some games change completely.

Now the Habs are great 5 on 5, but if a team plays the trap, then what the hell can we do? Opponents can now take liberties against the Habs, like hook or hold a bit to break up potential scoring chances because they are not afraid of the PP anymore. Bring the PP back up by getting a good offensive dman and now this team turns out to be damn scary since they are still 8th (?) in the league for the defensive side.

That dman is the answer.

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12-22-2008, 06:22 PM
  #36
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I think the Habs have to be better in their own zone. They must be able to break the cycling that some teams are able to perform against them. A top Dman would get the puck out of the zone, advance it, make plays in the offensive zone, and shoot. That calls for someone better than Brisebois. Ryan O'Byrne isn't the answer. There's no one in the system who can step up, at least not now. Of all the NHL players who may be available in a trade, Bouwmeester would help the Habs the most, more so than Kovalchuk or Gaborik.

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12-22-2008, 06:31 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Detroit - Check - we beat them 3-1

Washington - almost check - they won the last game because they were lucky as hell, Habs hit 6-7 posts in that game.

San Jose - we'll have to see

Pittsburg - we'll have to see, and I'm not afraid of the results, Habs will fair well


That's the whole point. This season the Habs did beat Calgary, Minnesota, Detroit, New York, Philadelphia....

We are losing against second rate teams, which is not the worst of things. At least we aren't building a reputation of "invincible" team over beating weak teams like some other team I won't mention.
Sorry to burst your bubble but the Habs would lose a seven game series with Detroit which is the point...... You need to take off your Rose coloured glasses if you think this team right now could beat many teams in a playoffs series.... there is alot of work to be done

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12-22-2008, 10:44 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Westcoasthabsfan View Post
Sorry to burst your bubble but the Habs would lose a seven game series with Detroit which is the point...... You need to take off your Rose coloured glasses if you think this team right now could beat many teams in a playoffs series.... there is alot of work to be done
I agree that 1 game isn't a 7 game series but I don't see the logic in we can't beat many teams in a playoff series, that's not true.

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12-22-2008, 11:45 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I think our 5 on 5 play is one of the tops in the league my friend. I don't think we have a transition game problem. Merely a PP problem.
I sort of agree with that. I feel Streit was a big loss, but realistically we can't get him back, so we have to replace him. I think the players most similar to Streit are the two Kostitsyn brothers, and I would give them both a shot at playing on the RIGHT point and putting Markov back on the left where he excels.

Actually, Sergei is already getting a chance here, and the results have started to improve lately.

If the PP can be fixed through better use of our current roster players, and we don't need a PP "hired gun", it should be easier/cheaper to find an upgrade over Brisebois/O'Byrne for 6th D.

For now, until the right trade can be made, I would send O'Byrne down, call up whichever of Henry or Belle is better defensively to be our 7th D for now, spell that guy in for Brisebois around 50% of the time and see if we get a spark. Meanwhile, OB might just re-ignite his game by gaining confidence back in the AHL.

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Old
12-23-2008, 12:04 AM
  #40
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How about trying Weber for a few games?

At least try him!

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12-23-2008, 12:24 AM
  #41
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How about trying Weber for a few games?

At least try him!
its been noted many times that hes just not ready for the jump to the NHL yet.

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Old
12-23-2008, 01:10 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Kovalev actually slows down our transition game sometimes, it's very annoying. We have so much speed, we're flying, and he holds onto the puck too long, starts dangling back and forth and the rest of the guys stand at the blueline and lose speed.
In all we have too many guys trying to dangle the puck across the line. Kovalev is the obvious worst offender, but the whole issue is something that should be addressed by the coaching staff, IMO. I feel refreshed on those rare occasions that someone hammers it in the zone and guys can rush in. Getting behind the defense is key and we could be doing it with our speed. Instead, guys. Standing. Still. Zzzzzz.

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12-23-2008, 01:20 AM
  #43
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its been a revolving door injury wise this year, so its tough to evaluate the team, but I fully expect Bob Gainey to make a move if he thinks something needs to be addressed. I really think Gainey is prepared to "go for it" and even overpay to get that specific asset this year.

For now, there's a ton of time left before the deadline, and the evaluation will continue. Lots of things can happen between now and then, and Gainey will act accordingly.

From what I've seen, this team could use a little more sandpaper in the top 3 lines. I dont know if the current makeup of this team is built for the endurance test known as the stanley cup playoffs. I hope the habs can find this quality within them instead of forcing Gainey to find it himself.

My concern about the defensive depth outside of the top 3 remains unchanged from the start of training camp. If anything, the concern is intensified now that I've seen o'byrne playing worse than I expected.

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12-23-2008, 01:30 AM
  #44
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From what I've seen, this team could use a little more sandpaper in the top 3 lines. I dont know if the current makeup of this team is built for the endurance test known as the stanley cup playoffs. I hope the habs can find this quality within them instead of forcing Gainey to find it himself.

My concern about the defensive depth outside of the top 3 remains unchanged from the start of training camp. If anything, the concern is intensified now that I've seen o'byrne playing worse than I expected.
100%. I wish we had that guy with a hit-first mentality, and then surprises you by winding up with the puck on his stick in the right spot. Kostopolous is almost that, but not quite. He's kind of a third-and-a-half liner. We need a 2.5.

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12-23-2008, 07:35 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Jedrik View Post
In all we have too many guys trying to dangle the puck across the line. Kovalev is the obvious worst offender, but the whole issue is something that should be addressed by the coaching staff, IMO. I feel refreshed on those rare occasions that someone hammers it in the zone and guys can rush in. Getting behind the defense is key and we could be doing it with our speed. Instead, guys. Standing. Still. Zzzzzz.
It is the coaching staff that is trying to impose this style of play. They are trying to stress puck possession. If you already have possession of the puck why risk losing it deep in the opponent's zone when you could hold onto it and form up just inside the line? The coaches don't need to adress this they are imposing it as our game plan.

I don't agree with it because we have blazing speed to get the puck first BUT do we have the guys that are willing to take a beating in the corners to get it? Probably better to keep possession if the grittier guys can't get the job done retrieving the puck when it is dumped.

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12-23-2008, 07:39 AM
  #46
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If we give a consistent 60-minute effort and we have no injuries, I'm confident we can beat any team in the league 4 games out of 7.

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12-23-2008, 07:57 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Jedrik View Post
In all we have too many guys trying to dangle the puck across the line. Kovalev is the obvious worst offender, but the whole issue is something that should be addressed by the coaching staff, IMO. I feel refreshed on those rare occasions that someone hammers it in the zone and guys can rush in. Getting behind the defense is key and we could be doing it with our speed. Instead, guys. Standing. Still. Zzzzzz.
That's the thing. A guy like kovy dekes way too much whereas a guy like plek does a deke, throws it into the corner and chases it. There should be some kind of limit. Deke....deke....SHOOOT! It's annoying because kovalev feels he has to be involved in every offensive play. He has to quarterback every rush or something. Use your teammates! Deke in front of the net for a shot instead of at the blueline with no one left to pass to. Pass, get open, distract defenders, do something. At a certain point, teams don't even need to focus on him, they just focus on who he could pass to and cut off the passing lanes. Kovalev has the size and hands to do some great work in the slot, he should consider having a more dynamic game instead of dynamic passing. If he's unpredictable position wise, with his talent he should fair well, my 2 cents.

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12-23-2008, 08:02 AM
  #48
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It is the coaching staff that is trying to impose this style of play. They are trying to stress puck possession. If you already have possession of the puck why risk losing it deep in the opponent's zone when you could hold onto it and form up just inside the line? The coaches don't need to adress this they are imposing it as our game plan.

I don't agree with it because we have blazing speed to get the puck first BUT do we have the guys that are willing to take a beating in the corners to get it? Probably better to keep possession if the grittier guys can't get the job done retrieving the puck when it is dumped.
Puck possesion is one thing, but it does not hurt to change it up. We have the speed to succeed. I like that they hang onto the puck, sometimes it works, but kovalev has to use his linemates better, get some attention and then pass the puck, with our speed and skill we should be able to easily make the other team go out of position, but when our style isn't effecient(in the sense that ppl wait at the blueline for someone to dangle) we do not get the results we expect from such a talented group.

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12-23-2008, 08:03 AM
  #49
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If we give a consistent 60-minute effort and we have no injuries, I'm confident we can beat any team in the league 4 games out of 7.
I agree. There's no reason to think we can't at least give top teams a tough team at the minimum.

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12-23-2008, 08:08 AM
  #50
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its been a revolving door injury wise this year, so its tough to evaluate the team, but I fully expect Bob Gainey to make a move if he thinks something needs to be addressed. I really think Gainey is prepared to "go for it" and even overpay to get that specific asset this year.

For now, there's a ton of time left before the deadline, and the evaluation will continue. Lots of things can happen between now and then, and Gainey will act accordingly.

From what I've seen, this team could use a little more sandpaper in the top 3 lines. I dont know if the current makeup of this team is built for the endurance test known as the stanley cup playoffs. I hope the habs can find this quality within them instead of forcing Gainey to find it himself.

My concern about the defensive depth outside of the top 3 remains unchanged from the start of training camp. If anything, the concern is intensified now that I've seen o'byrne playing worse than I expected.

I think the grit aspect is over done. We may have been able to win 2 playoffs rounds last year if for better bounces and we had didn't have any more grit than we do now.

Gainey doesn't have a history of trading big. However, from last year and the hossa deadline talk, I guess this year, especially at the 100th, he wont stand still if he feels he needs to. If gainey does get something, i doubt its a sandpaper forward. We was willing to get hossa as a rental, i assume he'd consider jay bo. More realisticly though, he'll increase our blueline depth either way IF he does something. It's no guarantee though, gainey doesnt like trading prospects and homegrown talent so we'll see.

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