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Old
12-22-2008, 01:39 PM
  #51
Sec201
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Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
I would hang onto Upshall, Metropolit, and Asham if possible. I would first let Knuble walk (I am in no way bashing him, but he is not vital and we need every penny), then try to trade Jones and Lupul in the offseason. Alberts and Kukkonen should be easy to let go as well.

Vaananen is my first priority to re-sign, on a 3 year deal worth about 5-6 million. Sbisa and Parent stay.

Gagne - Richards - Giroux
Hartnell - Carter - JVR
Nodl - Briere - Upshall
Cote - Metropolit - Asham/Kalinski
Powe

Timonen - Coburn
Vaananen - Carle
Sbisa - Parent
(someone)

~34 million for the forwards
~16 million for the defense

~50 million total with 5+ million depending on the cap to figure out the goalie situation
People are forgetting the defensive liability some of these young players are. Giroux is a great offenseman (yea i think i made that word up) but he has lacked the defensive ability you need in the NHL. The caps are a great example of what happens when your whole team relies on the offense. They can put up ultra numbers of goals if the opposing teams goalie does not get lucky. But they have to rely on putting up those goals or otherwise they are going to get beat. Its not too often you see the caps winning 2-1 or 3-2....its usually like 4-1, 5-2 etc. etc.

Knuble i believe is expendable. His veteran leadership is very good and he can score goals, but I think he is losing a step defensively that is necessary. I have always been impressed with Lupul and I think if we were to trade him, you better trade him to far out west team where he cannot come into Philly and do damage. Cause the minute he steps foot into the Wachovia center in an opposing jersey you will experience his rath. I believe the same thing will happen when we play RJ and the blue jackets after xmas.

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Old
12-22-2008, 01:40 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Mountaineer View Post
Don't like that 3rd line at all. Hartnell needs to stay away from Briere in my opinion.
I put Hartnell on it because I didn't want Brière and Giroux get automatically out-muscled by the opposition, but then again I'm a bit dark about Giroux's playing style, defensive abilities and physical strength. I'd really like to watch some AHL games but I have no clue how or where :/

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12-22-2008, 01:42 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Lupul's $4M+ extension makes him an instant cap-casualty. We just can't have that on the cap next year, I still don't know what Holmgren was thinking.
I agree, I don't know what he was thinking either. Of course, this was before we got Carle too.

I think Sbisa stays with the team. I don't agree with it but that's what I think will happen. Kukks will be sent down as he's already cleared waivers. Parent will be sent down when he comes back. Alberts will be waived and I think he'll clear waivers. If his play is below average and Sbisa continues to struggle then I think Alberts is sent down and Parent called up.

For the off-season, I think Jones gets a good look the rest of the season. I think this will determine which of Jones and Carle we keep. Jones actually looked pretty good yesterday and if he shows himself to be improving over last season then I think he may make Carle expendable. Anyways, I think one of Carle/Jones is gone. I think Lupul and UPSHALL are both gone too and Knuble is re-signed. Giroux and JVR join the team.

Edit - I accidentally said Giroux instead of Upshall above.


Last edited by phlocky: 12-23-2008 at 04:15 PM.
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Old
12-22-2008, 01:47 PM
  #54
phlocky
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
What the heck is this thread about?
It lets some people show how little they know about the Flyers, the salary cap, and player value. It's actually quite funny watching people argue their point so adamently when they are so clueless.

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Old
12-22-2008, 01:50 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Mountaineer View Post
they'd basically have to give him away - nobody is going to offer anything for Lupul at 4M.
If he scores 30 goals this year they will.

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Old
12-23-2008, 01:52 PM
  #56
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Well I may be one of those clueless people who knows next to nothing but here's what I see:

Knuble earns 2.8 mil and scores 30 goals. It's not worth it trading him away.

I am disturbed by people's eagerness to bring in unknown and untested quantities liek JVR and Giroux and play them on the Top 6 in place of people like Knuble or Lupul. No matter how highly touted these guys are, I am not a big fan of starting rookies not named Mailkin or Corsby on top lines of teams that are Cup possibilities. Many youngsters development gets damaged with that over-pressure.

It makes much more sense to bring in youngsters like JVR and Giroux and have them fill lower lines .. in place of people like Metropolit and Asham ... than to ask them to jump in and fill Lupul's role or Knuble's role.

Therefore I am FIRMLY on the side of trying to save money by ditching people in the Lower Six rather than the Top 6. Start Giroux or JVR near the league minimum, play them on 3rd and 4th lines to start, and if they are good enough, promote them to upper lines.

If you work things out well, Giroux or JVR will start to do well at around the same time as Knuble really starts to slow down significantly. Then you can switch one of them with Knuble.

Now, I will freely admit that I dont know whether the cap/salary issues allow for this to be done. I know Philly does have to re-sign Coburn and that'll cost some dough.

SO I donno if ditching some people like Metropolit and replacing them with 700k/yr JVR etc will save enough cash to do it.

But if it can be done I think that's the way to go.

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Old
12-23-2008, 02:01 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rban
Therefore I am FIRMLY on the side of trying to save money by ditching people in the Lower Six rather than the Top 6. Start Giroux or JVR near the league minimum, play them on 3rd and 4th lines to start, and if they are good enough, promote them to upper lines.
You're entire post is unfounded because:

1) JVR will make around 3 million dollars

2) Giroux will only make 200k less than Metropolit (neither prospect plays center) and more money than guys like Asham, Cote, etc. You aren't saving ANYTHING having them in the bottom 3... let alone the bottom 6

3) Giroux and JVR are offensive players. You don't grow those players by playing them with muckers in that type of role

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12-23-2008, 02:14 PM
  #58
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I know I'm missing something here, but why is JVR not just getting an entry-level contract?

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Old
12-23-2008, 02:28 PM
  #59
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Giroux

If he is capable of playing 1st line next year, why doesn't he get the call now instead of Powe or Nodl?

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Old
12-23-2008, 02:31 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by bdemz View Post
If he is capable of playing 1st line next year, why doesn't he get the call now instead of Powe or Nodl?
Because if he's called up now he'll be playing on the third line with drastically less talented players.

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Old
12-23-2008, 03:28 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Pwood View Post
I know I'm missing something here, but why is JVR not just getting an entry-level contract?
He does, plus a lot of bonus' that top picks get that is included in calculating what their salary cap hit will be.

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Old
12-23-2008, 03:33 PM
  #62
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I think Metropolit goes at some point whether it be to make the room, or in the offseason regardless.

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Old
12-23-2008, 03:41 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I think Metropolit goes at some point whether it be to make the room, or in the offseason regardless.
I have to agree but who do you think will replace him?? Powe, Kalinski??? Who is suited better to the 4th line center role?? Just wondering and would like to here it from someone who gets to watch them live. IMO Powe and Kalinski were 2 guys who were relatively unknown quantities at the NHL level before the season but have really shown that they can be at least competent 4th liners at this level.

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Old
12-23-2008, 03:54 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by getphlyerdup View Post
People are forgetting the defensive liability some of these young players are. Giroux is a great offenseman (yea i think i made that word up) but he has lacked the defensive ability you need in the NHL.
That's so incorrect, it's not even funny. All of Giroux's coaches (Benoit Groulx with Gatineau and John Paddock with the Phantoms) have raved about his defensive play. It's on par with his offensive game. The only reason Giroux didn't start with the Flyers is simply because there was no room in the top six for him and rather than play him maybe 7 to 9 minutes a night, it was felt that it was best for him to go to the Phantoms and play 18 to 20. Funny thing is that Paddock has him playing almost 30 minutes a night because of how good of a hockey player he is.

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12-23-2008, 03:59 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
That's so incorrect, it's not even funny. All of Giroux's coaches (Benoit Groulx with Gatineau and John Paddock with the Phantoms) have raved about his defensive play. It's on par with his offensive game. The only reason Giroux didn't start with the Flyers is simply because there was no room in the top six for him and rather than play him maybe 7 to 9 minutes a night, it was felt that it was best for him to go to the Phantoms and play 18 to 20. Funny thing is that Paddock has him playing almost 30 minutes a night because of how good of a hockey player he is.
Giroux also had a poor training camp, Hence why Nodl made the team this year out of camp. There was a spot for giroux waiting, but he didn't match up. Guessing that was due to the fact he had widsom teeth out just before he started camp, and due to previous experience, i know how painfull that it can be

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12-23-2008, 04:19 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Pwood View Post
I know I'm missing something here, but why is JVR not just getting an entry-level contract?
He is, he's on an entry level contract but as the #2 overall pick his potential bonus' would put him at around 3 mil a year if he plays a full year up on the Flyers next year.

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12-23-2008, 04:25 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
He is, he's on an entry level contract but as the #2 overall pick his potential bonus' would put him at around 3 mil a year if he plays a full year up on the Flyers next year.
Thats a joke.

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12-23-2008, 04:26 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
He is, he's on an entry level contract but as the #2 overall pick his potential bonus' would put him at around 3 mil a year if he plays a full year up on the Flyers next year.
Just thought I'd clarify something about the bonuses. In order for JVR to earn the bonuses, wouldn't he have to: lead the league in scoring, be named to the first NHL All Star team and win a Stanley Cup? I thought the one thing that the NHL negotiated in the CBA was how bonuses were going to be handed out and that those were basically the bonuses included in a player's contract

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12-23-2008, 04:34 PM
  #69
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Well lets hope he wins the lord stanley- Loses the league leaders points scorer by one point, and misses out on the all star team due to being a complete dick.

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12-23-2008, 04:40 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
He is, he's on an entry level contract but as the #2 overall pick his potential bonus' would put him at around 3 mil a year if he plays a full year up on the Flyers next year.
He'll have incentives that will be attainable, but he'll have to have a tremendous season to reach 3 mil. Now this year his cap hit would have assumed that he hit all of his bonuses and thus he would have carried a 3 + mil cap hit all year long. Next year, with the next CBA opt out being 2 years away, the cap hits from players with incentives will go back to being base salaries. As a result, JVR will carry a 950 K cap hit. If he reaches incentives and those incentives put the Flyers over the cap then that will count against the following year, but I doubt the Flyers will plan for that.

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Old
12-23-2008, 04:42 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Just thought I'd clarify something about the bonuses. In order for JVR to earn the bonuses, wouldn't he have to: lead the league in scoring, be named to the first NHL All Star team and win a Stanley Cup? I thought the one thing that the NHL negotiated in the CBA was how bonuses were going to be handed out and that those were basically the bonuses included in a player's contract
No, they aren't that difficult to attain. I think that Jordan Staal carried about a 2.2 mil cap hit after his rookie season and Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin were all well over 3 mil. Seeing as how I'd expect JVR to be somewhere in between, probably closer to Staal's production, he'll probably earn 2.5 mil or so as a rookie.

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12-23-2008, 04:46 PM
  #72
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one thing that should be noted with JVR and his bonuses is that he's on a team that has multiple different scoring line. when guys like crosby, ovechkin, kane, etc etc came up, they were essentially it. i don't expect huge years for giroux or JVR--something on par with 20 goals, 30 helpers. dunno where that goes in the scheme of bonuses, but they won't be up there in the scoring lead...

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12-23-2008, 05:54 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyMac View Post
He does, plus a lot of bonus' that top picks get that is included in calculating what their salary cap hit will be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
He is, he's on an entry level contract but as the #2 overall pick his potential bonus' would put him at around 3 mil a year if he plays a full year up on the Flyers next year.
Thanks. That's makes sense. I totally forgot about the bonuses.

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12-23-2008, 06:30 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Thats a joke.
A joke? Nah, the joke are the contracts that rookies get in football. That is just unreal.

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Old
12-23-2008, 06:44 PM
  #75
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Ah i wouldn't know. I'm not a big football fan. But 3 million in a rookie season. Whats this world coming too.

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