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Lets flashback to the Isbister + Torres for Ninamaa trade

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Old
07-25-2004, 08:57 PM
  #1
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Lets flashback to the Isbister + Torres for Ninamaa trade

I like Torres and I think hes a key to our future but I think Issy has to go. hes a bust. But we still kinda miss jannes puck moving.

I would have rather seen it Smith for Torres flat out.

Ninimaa-Brewer (this was such a great pairing)
Staios-Bergeron
?-?

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07-25-2004, 09:02 PM
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MrMackey
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I certainly miss Janne. I probably wouldn't take the trade back though, because I think Izzy will eventually break out and Torres should be a force for us. I kinda wish that the second didn't go back either, but what can you do.

He could probably be re-acquired for a lot less than what NYI gave up though, and I'd take him back in a heartbeat. He may only last a couple of years with his wonky back, but he always gave 110%. I think I'd rather have him than Smith... even after the great year our captain just had.

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07-25-2004, 11:26 PM
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I miss Janne too, I remember he was in tears when he found out he was dealt to NYI, he loved it here, i'd love it if we could bring him back.

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07-25-2004, 11:31 PM
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Agreed! I would love for Janne to come back. I think he only has one more year of RFA, so maybe we can resign him as a UFA..

That would rule!


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07-25-2004, 11:40 PM
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The guy I felt most sorry for at the trade deadline that year was Ales Pisa. He just looked really confused on camera.. "I wake up and they trade me.. I not know where I go.."

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07-25-2004, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
The guy I felt most sorry for at the trade deadline that year was Ales Pisa. He just looked really confused on camera.. "I wake up and they trade me.. I not know where I go.."
Yeah, that was unfortunate. He would make a serviceable 7th d-man if he were on the team today.

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07-25-2004, 11:58 PM
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Am I the only one who thinks Isbister didn't have as terrible of a year as it has been made out to be??? Granted he definitely didn't put up the breakout season some had expected of him, but I don't think it was a total loss......

He put up 10 goals in 51 games, but having to return from his neck and knee (or was it ankle) injuries obviously would have slowed him down for at least a handful of them.

So, realistically, he played 100% healthy in only about half of the Oiler games this year. Pro-rating that over a full season would make him a 20 goal scorer and among the Oiler leaders.

Although I definitely agree he disappeared for stretches and wasn't nearly as physical as he needs to be when not scoring, I think he still could be on pace to put up a 20 goal year in the next full season.

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07-26-2004, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock Saint
Am I the only one who thinks Isbister didn't have as terrible of a year as it has been made out to be??? Granted he definitely didn't put up the breakout season some had expected of him, but I don't think it was a total loss......

He put up 10 goals in 51 games, but having to return from his neck and knee (or was it ankle) injuries obviously would have slowed him down for at least a handful of them.

So, realistically, he played 100% healthy in only about half of the Oiler games this year. Pro-rating that over a full season would make him a 20 goal scorer and among the Oiler leaders.

Although I definitely agree he disappeared for stretches and wasn't nearly as physical as he needs to be when not scoring, I think he still could be on pace to put up a 20 goal year in the next full season.
For me, it's not so much that he played incredibly badly. It's more that he shows me glimpses and flashes of what he could be. Truly dominating. There are shifts where he's practically unstoppable. He'll carry the puck into the offensive zone and break a check by the side boards, then he'll spin around and use his strength to control the puck while a guy is hanging all over him, and then he'll generate a scoring opportunity and look like Todd Bertuzzi. The next shift he'll skate around aimlessly and get knocked off the puck so easily it boggles my mind.

It's frustrating when you know that a player can be great but he's not playing at that level consistently. Sorta like Laraque. But that's another thread.

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07-26-2004, 12:51 AM
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I wouldn't take back the trade at all

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07-26-2004, 11:23 AM
  #10
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I really like the trade looking back at it now, just on Raffi's upside alone. I think Izzy's going to be solid this year too! But, Janne was one of my favorite all-time d men. He absolutely loved being an Oiler, and this city. And for his decent offensive skills, he didn't give up much defensively. Does anyone remember that picture in the paper just after he was traded? It looked like his mugshot after being arrested. I could definitely see Janne in Cooper and blue again!

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07-26-2004, 12:30 PM
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MrMackey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloned
Yeah, that was unfortunate. He would make a serviceable 7th d-man if he were on the team today.
I agree. Our defense needs more #7-caliber guys. (jk )

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07-26-2004, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloned
For me, it's not so much that he played incredibly badly. It's more that he shows me glimpses and flashes of what he could be. Truly dominating. There are shifts where he's practically unstoppable. He'll carry the puck into the offensive zone and break a check by the side boards, then he'll spin around and use his strength to control the puck while a guy is hanging all over him, and then he'll generate a scoring opportunity and look like Todd Bertuzzi. The next shift he'll skate around aimlessly and get knocked off the puck so easily it boggles my mind.

It's frustrating when you know that a player can be great but he's not playing at that level consistently. Sorta like Laraque. But that's another thread.
That's about how I feel too. Every now and then you see the raw ability to bring a power game with some hands, and the other 80% of the time you see a slug on skates.

From what I've heard about him over the years, he seems like this big mellow thing that seems to just float along in life, taking it easy. He's like the friend that's great to party and hang out with, but plays the anchor when he's your coworker on a time-sensitive project.

Maybe this drop in pay will be the smelling salts for his career, but I have my doubts. Give him the first 40 games of this season, and if he's still Invisibister or Glassbister then trade him at the deadline for the next sucker that wants a go at making chicken salad out of chicken excrement.

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Old
07-26-2004, 12:54 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock Saint
Am I the only one who thinks Isbister didn't have as terrible of a year as it has been made out to be??? Granted he definitely didn't put up the breakout season some had expected of him, but I don't think it was a total loss......

He put up 10 goals in 51 games, but having to return from his neck and knee (or was it ankle) injuries obviously would have slowed him down for at least a handful of them.

So, realistically, he played 100% healthy in only about half of the Oiler games this year. Pro-rating that over a full season would make him a 20 goal scorer and among the Oiler leaders.

Although I definitely agree he disappeared for stretches and wasn't nearly as physical as he needs to be when not scoring, I think he still could be on pace to put up a 20 goal year in the next full season.
I agree that when you disect his numbers there can be a case made that suggests that Izzy can be a pretty good hockey player.

The two things that bug me about him are;

1) He always does that same move where he cuts to the net. It's like a flash back to watching Comrie do the Jr toe drag that worked once every 10 times.

2) Despite the numbers the injuries are as big of a concern as it would be if he had 10 goals over 82 games. This guys health has a pretty poor track record. I don't get the feeling that he has it in him to fight through the pain (the chip in his vertebrae aside because that a pretty scary injury) and for a professional with 7 years under his belt I would expect tos ee him in better shape. That picture of him in the paper last training camp looked like the only lifting he did during the summer was to get the donuts to his lips.

On an aside, has anyone followed how Janne did last season? I understood it was an up and down year for him but I am shocked that he was just named to the Finnish world cup team as a replacement player. I would have assumed he would have been slam dunk from day one.

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07-26-2004, 01:04 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue
On an aside, has anyone followed how Janne did last season? I understood it was an up and down year for him but I am shocked that he was just named to the Finnish world cup team as a replacement player. I would have assumed he would have been slam dunk from day one.
He really struggled early on for the Isles, but pulled it together for the strech drive & was one of their better D near the end of the season. There were rumblings his early season play was a result of him being unhappy about the trade, not able to adjust to the NYI style, etc. Sometimes players just really like to play for a particular team, then have difficulty bringing a similar level of play in a different city. (see Ulanov's career in Florida/New York).

And no, I dont think we have a chance at getting him back unless we give up something of value.

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Old
07-26-2004, 01:45 PM
  #15
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Originally Posted by MrMackey
I agree. Our defense needs more #7-caliber guys. (jk )
We need someone to replace Ferguson.

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Old
07-27-2004, 09:56 AM
  #16
Matty31
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Niinimaa was great as an Oiler and I wished he would have stayed.
Getting Torres without giving him up would have been ideal but you gotta give up quality to get quality.
Good thing Torres stepped it up last year otherwise the trade would be looking pretty bad.

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