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Old
12-27-2008, 02:12 PM
  #51
chosen
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
You know the Rangers drafted a top 10 talent in the first round of each of the last 4 drafts, right?
Really?

I think you have their drafts confused with teams that drafted talent that appears and excels at the NHL level already.

How do you explain that Rangers top 10 talent is always somewhere in the foggy distance, never arriving, while an assembly line of talented young forwards are already littered throughout the league?

Have you noticed the youth on Boston or Washington or Chicago or Philadelphia or Phoenix or.....

When are the Rangers going to unveil players like these teams have? Where is a player like Krejci, who seemingly appears out of nowhere? What Rangers forwards have appeared out of nowhere? Dubinsky comes the closest. I like him and he might become more than he is but there are so many better ones out there at the moment.

Maybe Callahan?

Name all of the physical forwards with offensive upside drafted by Glen in the last 10 years.

Name all of the physical forwards drafted by Teflon Glen in the last 10 years that can play in the NHL.

Name all of the non-physical, offensively gifted forwards drafted in the last 10 years.

Telling me that we have great talent coming may turn out to be true but when that same tune has been playing for the duration of Sather's tenure, I somehow don't believe it.

Shouldn't he have even mistakenly blundered into drafting a standout forward by now?

Let's take it past Sather. Please name all of the standout forwards that the Rangers have drafted in the last 20 years. We acquired Messier and Jagr on the cheap because of money. The best of the group might be Kovalev.

Aside from bringing in Zherdev, he has been an absolute zero except for Staal and arguably Lundqvist, depending upon who you believe ran that draft.

At least Sather had the genius to spend the bulk of available money on such stellar signings as Drury and Redden. I can see why you believe in this great hockey mind.

Perhaps we should give him a lifetime job running the show. Oh, that already has happened.

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Old
12-27-2008, 02:14 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Garfinkel1 View Post
I guess we will see tonight if Prucha really has anything in him. He should know that he wont get many more chances to prove himself.
How many times have we heard this over the last 3 years?

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12-27-2008, 02:29 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Really?

I think you have their drafts confused with teams that drafted talent that appears and excels at the NHL level already.

How do you explain that Rangers top 10 talent is always somewhere in the foggy distance, never arriving, while an assembly line of talented young forwards are already littered throughout the league?

Have you noticed the youth on Boston or Washington or Chicago or Philadelphia or Phoenix or.....

When are the Rangers going to unveil players like these teams have? Where is a player like Krejci, who seemingly appears out of nowhere? What Rangers forwards have appeared out of nowhere? Dubinsky comes the closest. I like him and he might become more than he is but there are so many better ones out there at the moment.

Maybe Callahan?

Name all of the physical forwards with offensive upside drafted by Glen in the last 10 years.

Name all of the physical forwards drafted by Teflon Glen in the last 10 years that can play in the NHL.

Name all of the non-physical, offensively gifted forwards drafted in the last 10 years.

Telling me that we have great talent coming may turn out to be true but when that same tune has been playing for the duration of Sather's tenure, I somehow don't believe it.

Shouldn't he have even mistakenly blundered into drafting a standout forward by now?

Let's take it past Sather. Please name all of the standout forwards that the Rangers have drafted in the last 20 years. We acquired Messier and Jagr on the cheap because of money. The best of the group might be Kovalev.

Aside from bringing in Zherdev, he has been an absolute zero except for Staal and arguably Lundqvist, depending upon who you believe ran that draft.

At least Sather had the genius to spend the bulk of available money on such stellar signings as Drury and Redden. I can see why you believe in this great hockey mind.

Perhaps we should give him a lifetime job running the show. Oh, that already has happened.


Staal, Sanguinetti, Cherepanov, Del Zotto. All ranked in the top 10 in their respective draft classes. They dropped. But that doesn't mask the fact they were ranked in the top 10 going into the draft. Even Montoya and Korpikoski were ranked high in thier draft class.

Cherepanov's death was no body's fault, and no one could have predicted it. He was THE TOP young offensive talent in Europe before his death. He WAS GOING TO BE in the NHL next year at 20 years of age.

Staal, 21, in the NHL.
Sanguinetti, 20, in the AHL and among the league's top scoring defensemen.
Del Zotto, 18, among the OHL's top scoring defensemen.
Anisimov, 20, lock for NHL next year.
Grachev, 18, lock for AHL next year.

You understand in the real world. Not video game world, players, even first round picks, take time to develop. If we were a fringe organization in a desolate hockey market, we would have these guys in the NHL now, and finish in the gutter of the league, and be a lottery pick.

However, we are not, we are currently a FIRST PLACE team, and we haven't had a pick above 17 in 3 years.

Considering that, we have done fine drafting the last 4 years. As i have said.

And besides the point, we have 8 players on the current NHL roster that were either drafted by us or signed by us as an undrafted free agent (Girardi).

So despite what you and your negativity thinks, we have drafted well the last few years.


Last edited by SupersonicMonkey*: 12-27-2008 at 02:41 PM.
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Old
12-27-2008, 04:14 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post


Staal, Sanguinetti, Cherepanov, Del Zotto. All ranked in the top 10 in their respective draft classes. They dropped. But that doesn't mask the fact they were ranked in the top 10 going into the draft. Even Montoya and Korpikoski were ranked high in thier draft class.
not to pick on you, but it bothers me how people value the opinions of the school teachers at ISS over the NHL scouts and higher-ups that passed on these guys.

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Old
12-27-2008, 05:06 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post


Staal, Sanguinetti, Cherepanov, Del Zotto. All ranked in the top 10 in their respective draft classes. They dropped. But that doesn't mask the fact they were ranked in the top 10 going into the draft. Even Montoya and Korpikoski were ranked high in thier draft class.

Cherepanov's death was no body's fault, and no one could have predicted it. He was THE TOP young offensive talent in Europe before his death. He WAS GOING TO BE in the NHL next year at 20 years of age.

Staal, 21, in the NHL.
Sanguinetti, 20, in the AHL and among the league's top scoring defensemen.
Del Zotto, 18, among the OHL's top scoring defensemen.
Anisimov, 20, lock for NHL next year.
Grachev, 18, lock for AHL next year.

You understand in the real world. Not video game world, players, even first round picks, take time to develop. If we were a fringe organization in a desolate hockey market, we would have these guys in the NHL now, and finish in the gutter of the league, and be a lottery pick.

However, we are not, we are currently a FIRST PLACE team, and we haven't had a pick above 17 in 3 years.

Considering that, we have done fine drafting the last 4 years. As i have said.

And besides the point, we have 8 players on the current NHL roster that were either drafted by us or signed by us as an undrafted free agent (Girardi).

So despite what you and your negativity thinks, we have drafted well the last few years.
I asked you to name impact forwards Glen has drafted and you tell me about defensemen in the AHL and juniors, and you shake your head.

Because someone has made it to the NHL is not evidence of excelling at the the NHL level. It is evidence only that someone has to fill spots on a roster.

By the way, it is far better for a franchise to totally hit the skids and build up then to tread water forever. Red Auerbach was the first I ever heard espouse this belief and I agree with it 100%, especially when an inept front office continues to spend 14million dollars on players like Redden and Drury. Maybe we can acquire Marcel Dionne and Guy Lafleur, too. Apologies for the step back in time but a few posters will understand the reference.

To not hit the skids and continue to compete at a high level is what separates Detroit and NJ from the rest of the league. Both of them have drafted later than the Rangers just about every year.

I don't play video hockey. Tried it once or twice, though.

What is thought of a player at the age of 17 isn't all that important as to where he will end up unless he is a can't miss like a Crosby. What separates good management from bad management is being able to pluck the occasional impact player later in the draft.

Over Sather's career he has been a major bust as a GM. He has achieved a fairy tale existence because he was lucky enough to coach perhaps the greatest team to ever lace them up and because of this, many fans mistakenly think he was the architect of that dynasty, when in fact, he had one great draft where I believe he got Kurri, Coffey and maybe Fuhr. He didn't get Gretzky or Messier and his other drafts in Edmonton were non-descript.

What keeps this team afloat is one of the best goaltenders I have ever seen and team discipline.


Last edited by chosen: 12-27-2008 at 05:24 PM.
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Old
12-27-2008, 05:52 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
I asked you to name impact forwards Glen has drafted and you tell me about defensemen in the AHL and juniors, and you shake your head.

Because someone has made it to the NHL is not evidence of excelling at the the NHL level. It is evidence only that someone has to fill spots on a roster.

By the way, it is far better for a franchise to totally hit the skids and build up then to tread water forever. Red Auerbach was the first I ever heard espouse this belief and I agree with it 100%, especially when an inept front office continues to spend 14million dollars on players like Redden and Drury. Maybe we can acquire Marcel Dionne and Guy Lafleur, too. Apologies for the step back in time but a few posters will understand the reference.

To not hit the skids and continue to compete at a high level is what separates Detroit and NJ from the rest of the league. Both of them have drafted later than the Rangers just about every year.

I don't play video hockey. Tried it once or twice, though.

What is thought of a player at the age of 17 isn't all that important as to where he will end up unless he is a can't miss like a Crosby. What separates good management from bad management is being able to pluck the occasional impact player later in the draft.

Over Sather's career he has been a major bust as a GM. He has achieved a fairy tale existence because he was lucky enough to coach perhaps the greatest team to ever lace them up and because of this, many fans mistakenly think he was the architect of that dynasty, when in fact, he had one great draft where I believe he got Kurri, Coffey and maybe Fuhr. He didn't get Gretzky or Messier and his other drafts in Edmonton were non-descript.

What keeps this team afloat is one of the best goaltenders I have ever seen and team discipline.
Again.

OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS
the Rangers have drafted well.

It TAKES TIME for those players to develop and/or reach the NHL.

There are not 30 Crosbys to go around at each draft and each team is either stupid or not for drafting them or passing them over.

If you are a LOTTERY team you have the luxury of drafting INSTANT impact players. Or they are not instant impact players, but RUSHED to the NHL because your team is crap.

The Rangers have not, not even in their 7 season span of no playoffs, they didn't finish bad enough to have the luxury of drafting those players.

Again, the best guys we drafted since 2004 are either in the NHL or developing.

You can not just take an 18 year old kid, or a 20 year old kid and throw them into the NHL just because they were a first round pick. It doesn't work that way.

Lundqvist, Dubinsky, Dawes, Callahan, Staal, Korpikoski, Girardi.. all drafted (or signed) under Sather's regime, and they are making an impact of some kind in the NHL for a FIRST PLACE team.

Tyutin was also drafted under him, and he made an impact for a couple of years before being traded for Zherdev.

Prucha also made an impact his first two seasons.


When i mention ages for guys like Del Zotto, Sanguinetti, Anisimov and Grachev, its because their ages are IMPORTANT.

18 year old Del Zotto should NOT be expected, first round pick or not, to be in the NHL right now.

20 year old Sanguinetti, first round pick or not, should NOT be expected to be in the NHL right now.

Grachev, first round talent or not, should NOT be expected to be in the NHL right now. Although there are mumblings he may push for a sport next year as a 19 year old.


What exactly is it you are expecting out of the draft? It is a crap shoot. Guys either develop or they don't. If you get ONE DECENT NHL player out of every draft year, that is a SUCCESS.

The Rangers have gotten MULTIPLE pro (pro includes AHL) quality players out of every draft since the 2004 draft. THAT is a success.



I think where we are mis-communicating here is that i am talking about the last few years. A.k.a post lockout. And you i think are talking about the overall 8 years Sather has been here.


Last edited by SupersonicMonkey*: 12-27-2008 at 06:04 PM.
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Old
12-27-2008, 10:50 PM
  #57
Glen Teflon Sather
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Sit him already, he's another Adam Hall that's been hyped up by Micheletti. "This guy's going to do wonderful things here in NY, Ranger fans will love him, he hits he goes to the net........" And when was this? Sit him!

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Old
12-27-2008, 11:01 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Again.

OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS
the Rangers have drafted well.

It TAKES TIME for those players to develop and/or reach the NHL.

There are not 30 Crosbys to go around at each draft and each team is either stupid or not for drafting them or passing them over.

If you are a LOTTERY team you have the luxury of drafting INSTANT impact players. Or they are not instant impact players, but RUSHED to the NHL because your team is crap.

The Rangers have not, not even in their 7 season span of no playoffs, they didn't finish bad enough to have the luxury of drafting those players.

Again, the best guys we drafted since 2004 are either in the NHL or developing.

You can not just take an 18 year old kid, or a 20 year old kid and throw them into the NHL just because they were a first round pick. It doesn't work that way.

Lundqvist, Dubinsky, Dawes, Callahan, Staal, Korpikoski, Girardi.. all drafted (or signed) under Sather's regime, and they are making an impact of some kind in the NHL for a FIRST PLACE team.

Tyutin was also drafted under him, and he made an impact for a couple of years before being traded for Zherdev.

Prucha also made an impact his first two seasons.


When i mention ages for guys like Del Zotto, Sanguinetti, Anisimov and Grachev, its because their ages are IMPORTANT.

18 year old Del Zotto should NOT be expected, first round pick or not, to be in the NHL right now.

20 year old Sanguinetti, first round pick or not, should NOT be expected to be in the NHL right now.

Grachev, first round talent or not, should NOT be expected to be in the NHL right now. Although there are mumblings he may push for a sport next year as a 19 year old.


What exactly is it you are expecting out of the draft? It is a crap shoot. Guys either develop or they don't. If you get ONE DECENT NHL player out of every draft year, that is a SUCCESS.

The Rangers have gotten MULTIPLE pro (pro includes AHL) quality players out of every draft since the 2004 draft. THAT is a success.



I think where we are mis-communicating here is that i am talking about the last few years. A.k.a post lockout. And you i think are talking about the overall 8 years Sather has been here.
I really don't get how anyone could look at Sathers draft record since he got here and say it's been good. Lundqvist wasn't his pick by the way so take him off your list.

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12-27-2008, 11:07 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
I really don't get how anyone could look at Sathers draft record since he got here and say it's been good. Lundqvist wasn't his pick by the way so take him off your list.
LAST FEW DRAFTS

The last few drafts and the signing of Girardi have produced 36% of our current NHL roster. And have produced a handful of guys who WILL be on the roster.

Things take TIME. Some of the recent picks need to DEVELOP.


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12-28-2008, 11:01 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Over Sather's career he has been a major bust as a GM. He has achieved a fairy tale existence because he was lucky enough to coach perhaps the greatest team to ever lace them up and because of this, many fans mistakenly think he was the architect of that dynasty, when in fact, he had one great draft where I believe he got Kurri, Coffey and maybe Fuhr. He didn't get Gretzky or Messier and his other drafts in Edmonton were non-descript.
Lowe and Anderson. Plucked MacTavish off the scrap heap after Boston parted ways with him. I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure he did get Messier in the draft. Plus you just gloss over him drafting Kurri, Coffey and Fuhr. Didn't he draft Arnott? I'm not an Oiler historian so I don't know the details in and out, he's not as bad as you make him out to be. He hasn't done much through the draft here offense wise, but he is far from a bust as a GM career wise.

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12-28-2008, 02:02 PM
  #61
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According to Andrew Gross Prucha may play for Voros on Monday, Renney will think about it, don't hold your breath...

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12-29-2008, 05:53 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
Lowe and Anderson. Plucked MacTavish off the scrap heap after Boston parted ways with him. I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure he did get Messier in the draft. Plus you just gloss over him drafting Kurri, Coffey and Fuhr. Didn't he draft Arnott? I'm not an Oiler historian so I don't know the details in and out, he's not as bad as you make him out to be. He hasn't done much through the draft here offense wise, but he is far from a bust as a GM career wise.
He didn't draft Messier.

I admitted he had one great draft year in Edmonton.

MacTavish was at best a role player and not a draft choice.

As I have been telling Supersonic Monkey, his drafting of forwards as Rangers GM is laughingly horrific. I have yet to see anyone disagree with that. He now says we should only look at his last few drafts. Doing that, I still see nothing of note as of yet. Something may come out of it but he seems blind to the fact that nothing could just as easily come out of it.

Eventually, by blind luck, a great forward might appear here. Will he then be a genius again or will people realize that probability finally helped out.

If he had not had the extremely good fortune of coaching Edmonton he would be a blip on the history of hockey instead of thought as by some as a god of the game.

As a coach, I can't put him down. As a GM, I can't put him any lower than I already think of him.

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